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lugal is right, if you don't wish to pvp you roll pve,
Don't complain about being camped in wow, you can't get camped in wow, you can res miles away from your corpse, it doesn't take more than like 4-5 deaths to get to any friendly town and get out of the zone.
I personally rolled pvp to play the hunted, I was bored of mindlessly grinding mobs and I loved the fact that someone could come along and change the pace, it may have been a good experience for me because I was playing a mage (totally op class for those that don't play wow) , even though I did die quite a few times.
The difference between the whiners and the people that enjoy it seems to be as follows:
Whiners give up, pvpers search for solutions.
Call your guild, call your friends, call strangers out to kill some gankers, res at a different graveyard, take a flight / hearth out of the zone (in wow there were multiple areas to level always, usually one was emptier than another) go to a safe(r) area, or at extremes, log an alt or go make a sandwich. If the game is geting you stressed out you need to take a step back anyway.
Anyway, wow is a bad example of pvp
in a real pvp game even players that havent been playing for a long time can and should be a threat, ie EVE, where a freshly made character (these days) can scout or tackle with ease.
Whiners don't seem to realise what the second m in mmo is. you can't solve all your problems alone.
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PvP according to "The Noob"
Back in the old days of EQ i played on a PvP server called Vallon Zek. This was before expansions. The server pvp system were as follows. You could only attack somebody 2 levels lower or 2 levels above you. Anybody else were immune to attacks. That meant no level 50 ganking level 10's Back then you could loot 1 item of the enemies corpses and all their coins. The only items you were not allowed to touch was what was in bags. So naturally when facing a losing battle or for some..just any kind of PvP (boggles me why PvP shy people would play on a PvP server to begin with but w/e) people would quickly bag whatever valuable items they were wearing and let themselves die or try and put up a fight before dying.
The server had 3 or 4 factions i can't remember but were ultimately decided by the playerbase to be down between good vs evil. Evil being darkelves trolls ogres iksars. Good being humans elves gnomes halflings dwarves.
Now that there is a little background story ...here comes the point
I was in a RP guild that followed the PvP lore of there being 4 factions ..everybody else cross teamed because they the players, had made it into 2 factions for the sake of PvE and Carebear style of play. We would hunt these cross teamers down and kill them in force. Regular twinked out gank squads. We pissed people off and got nasty tells why we would ruin somebody's carebear PvE fun. We would tell them to loot their corpses and have safe passage away from the area..a system upheld by the whole community called "loot and scoot" ..Since we were the "bad guys" we often saw people to refusing out of anger. So we would corpse camp them for hours sometimes until they got the point we were serious. If they brought a highlevel friend we would do the same. We killed you for associating with the enemy team. Obviously we couldn't hurt our own faction but we could do the next best thing..kill the rest of the heathens and then give a stout lecture to whatever team member caught breaking "our rules".
We helped out newbies with gear and sometimes levelled them a bit. We taught them about our motto and the evil ways of cross teaming. We had a whole propaganda system going lol. Best fun i ever had. We were not hated by all ..some thought it was cool we were around to make things interesting..but the carebears certainly hated us. We were what you would call a "purist" guild. Ingame racism if you like only kept between the factions. We didn't attack the opposing teams if they stuck to their own.
My answer is yes you can roleplay a harcore PvP ganker. We did it.
Were we bullies...check...were we imposing our rules on the rest of the player community...check. Were we unfair...check. The thing people need to realize that PvP is not about being fair..it's not about bowing down before eachother asking the other person if he feels like a fight today...it is not about taking you extremely overpowered hatchet off to even the playing field...it is PvP...any time any place...prepared or not prepared. This pussified PvP i see today where you consent to every fight you participate in is watered down for the carebears all for the sake of mainstreaming it. I hate it and i avoid games that has it. WoW is a great example of it. You have neat little contested zones and safe zones..you have battlegrounds and arenas ..The only interesting PvP you see in WoW is the occational random world pvp encounter. The game has zero consequences..you die you resurrect that's it. Pussified for the whining weakling that can't handle a little adrenaline rush. If you complain about WoW PvP then i will do something i don't do often. Stoop to insults where i call you a tool. If you one day get to experience what i would call "real pvp" then i might take you serious. Might
PvP is mean, it's nasty and you should care about losing. Not like WoW where losing is like losing a hand in a go fish card game. It's not for everybody..it's not suppose to be. It's for people who like to be hunted and hunt themselves. I enjoy both. People who has only tried the watered down PvP system we see in todays MMOs with a few exceptions... has never faced an adrenaline kick from running into somebody who wants you dead. You simply won't understand why it can be so much fun..both being the hunted and the hunter. This is because you want to sit in your own safe little bubble where YOU decide when and where a battle should take place. This will never be true PvP in my eyes ganking or no ganking. |
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Originally posted by lugal Which was, I believe, my point. |
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Ganking, can be, but in most cases(I'd venture a 99.999%) are not RP. No matter what the player doing the ganking says. Because in a RP'ers world, actions has consequenses..... And there's reprecursions that will catch up with you if you break the game lore/world lore laws. Psychokiller players don't want no laws, they don't want no enforcement of the laws.. Heck I don't see any of the psychokiller "I'm RP'ing this unique dark character that kills everyone he meets" people want consequenses for their actions at all. They don't really want it so they can't get into NPC towns, they really don't want jails their characters rot in, they don't even support permadeath for when a mass murdered of thousands get finally caught. So action has no consequenses for them, and...well, that just makes their RP excuse totally bogus, and just shows that what they really are are "for teh lulz, as long as I get the lulz, and not you, and if you disagree, get out of mah game you RP'er... LULZ!!!!" players.
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heres my opinion and ill make it short. ganking which mean they go around as a pack of mutts lurking and jumping on 1 person thats in the middle of killing mobs? then my answer is it is up to the players weather they want to be a dick. it is just plain wrong. i am anti people like this. or ganking which mean lv 70 roaming at lv 30s area and slaughter them while they attacking mobs? then i dont aprove of that. ganking as role playing? role play is just an excuse to be a dick but it depends on situatiions. situation like what im about to speak of below is acceptable. my char is a pker. i role as a silent pker.
i am #1 pvp type of player. heres how i pk people. i let my character dont talk, dont type, dont socialize. i go around flagging/hitting random people forcing them to hit back... they hit back then i go full force cutting them down without holding back or feeling guilty. i just love sending people to town with my own hands and with contest. thats how my pvp character is. if they dont hit me back., i just keep on hitting them till they do. if take too long.. i just leave them alone and find another victim. i only pick someone that is par on par with me... like 7 level above me or 7 level below me but most of all i try my best to find the cloest level range. i can tell if we in same range by looking at their gears and hunting area that is my level range. some of you may of seen the personality method i described above in mmos like rohan, mo siang, lineage2, archlord. if you do see someone like that.. its probly me. silent character. attack random people.
i have seen several so called pvp loving players all over each mmos. now i would like to differ them from my league. they are below my league. - they attack random people and pk them even if they dont attack back - they pick on victims 20 times lower level than them - they find fault and make up drama as an excuse to pk people. example like they pretend to go to you and stand near you then ask something random, if you dont answer them within 5sec they start pking you with the excuse you dont answer them. however i think it is ok to role play as an bandit taking over a deserted road path... see someone cross by that looks like same level range and threat them give me your gold if dont i will take it by force.
anyway making up crap just to pk is weak. my style of pk is just pk.... dont give about anyones rats ass attack random people till they attack back then send them to town. no need for words. no need for drama. i do get angryness and name calling from my victims but its common human nature for them to do so but one thing i dont like is when they talk over board saying they reporting me to gm. which is funny. carebears......
pking people with one blow is no fun. pking people with contest and challenge is fun. i dont know high levels ganking on lower character is fun for them.
each of my characters i pilot is different and i try not to let anyone know that all of them is same pilot. for instance my main will always be a pvp character and silent and dont social witth anyone. if social.. knowing almost everyone on the server... who you gonna pk? my main never gets in a guild but myself. i make own guild just to have a name on top of my head to be known individually... i dont even care to recruit people as this character is for a one man army silent assassin. my alts do gets in people guilds and ask for help ect...
oh yeah theres alot of sensitive players out there. alot of my victims whenever see me like to whine over and over saying why i pk them... and say what they do to me ect... and ect.... sounding like they take it seriously..... jesus! chill out
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Originally posted by wolfmann
Are you speaking about a specific MMO, or do you really believe that all MMOs are like WOW?
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Meaningful PVP like DAoC, where people go to the open frontier to fight, is one form of gaming. You zone out, you expect war, open war. Any one will hit you. There are patrolling teams, there are stealthed predators. Go at your own risk. Ganking, in the form of people "imposing their rules on others", in the form of gankers rambling sexual racial abuses, or doing obvious insulting emotes, in the form of camping level 1 spawn points, is not my idea of fun. I do not want to be within a miles distance of these people. They can do what they want in a game that allows such behaviour. All I need to do is find another game. I remember the DAoC days. If you kill someone in the open frontier, glory to you. If you spam insults or sexual harassment, be ready to buy a new account. As for the argument about bad gamers driving out the good ones, I have this observation. in most games in which there are pvp and pve servers, most of the time the pvp servers has less population, or at least less online population. This is my observation, and I offer no proof, as I am too lazy to perform statistical work on games. Its off hours for me when i go gaming, not work. |
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I'm a PvPer at heart. I live for PvP, while questing with friends and finding new items can be fun, for me nothing beats the feeling you get when you win a tough battle. And I'm not talking about a battle ground or anything of that sort. I actually don't even find that sort of Arena based action any fun. To me being out in the world doing quests but at the same time knowing that at any moment you can walk into an enemy player is what makes MMORPGs fun, and interesting. When I first started playing UO many years ago, I was in Brit by the bank standing there naked, just getting used to the interface. Well a portal opens up and someone runs through and says "Cmon follow me!" So I followed. To my surprise there were around 5-6 red names surrounding me. Next thing I see is "Kal Vas Flam" (which is flamestrike), They weren't complete asses though, they resurrected me and actually took me under their wing. I'm a die-hard PvP player, I love it. If I get ganked at lower levels, that's ok, I'll get better. Then it feels, oh so rewarding when I do. =) |
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Ganking is fine, especially in faction based games where the opposing faction is 'supposed' to be Kill On Sight. Corpse camping is another story though.
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Humans essentially never kill for no reason whatsoever, especially not in groups. There is always a reason. Anyway, I think the answer depends on the type of server you are on. Faction based PvP games I think it's entirely justifiable in RPing, but in FFA PVP servers I do not think you can make the "rp" argument for your such actions. |
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I've seen two types of pvp going on in Neocron for instance. One is where you'll see teams of different factions battling it out in the city. However there's another one that's sort of dispicable, wherein some high level guy is camping a teleporter, awaiting for noobs to appear, and who will because the area is full of mobs that drop rare techs and such. I'd say "Campers" of that nature are the lowest form of pond-scum. |
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Ganking is only fair when the ganker is risking something himself.. He may be able to drop you in a second, but you should have a chance to find him and fight him one on one or ten on one to get revenge. Most modern MMOs don't have a required set of time you must stay logged in after you've killed someone and also have no search player feature that allows for hunting someone down. Back in the day, I played a UO type game where killing someone meant you were stuck in the game for the next 10 mins. And there was a spell 'Find Person' that could tell you simple cardinal directions of where a person is, but with a "very far" "far" or no adjective which says roughly home many screens worth distance they are from you. This allowed for the ganker to be put on an actual KoS list, you could hunt them down while they were alone or with friends. Still, by killing someone in the form of ganking, you could easily get killed back at some point. |
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Originally posted by lugal
This is lugal's argument in a nutshell. CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested. Once a denizen of Ahazi |
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No. Because this is about meaningless games that don't do physical harm to anyone. Stop making all these pathetic Dr. Phil wannabe real life comparsions. It's a game. Don't like what's happening LOG OUT. |
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"It's just a game" is a great way for cowardly sociopaths to skirt the issue of their sociopathy. CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested. Once a denizen of Ahazi |
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Originally posted by Forumfall Games are played by people, though. And I log in to have fun doing PvE and PvP, not to spend a frustrated 30 minutes trying to get from a to b without getting killed by some bored asshole i can't put a dent in. And for all of you who tell me (and others) to gtfo the PvP server: If you equate PvP with ganking then you haven't even understood the premise of this discussion!
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Originally posted by orionite Games are played by people, though. And I log in to have fun doing PvE and PvP, not to spend a frustrated 30 minutes trying to get from a to b without getting killed by some bored asshole i can't put a dent in. And for all of you who tell me (and others) to gtfo the PvP server: If you equate PvP with ganking then you haven't even understood the premise of this discussion!
Your point is a 100% moot. It doesn't matter if games are played by real life people. You cannot compare what happens in a game to what happens in real life. Are you trying to say if i kill somebody in a game I'm just as likely to want to do the same in real life? No you and i both know that is an idiotic notion so i second that motion about this having NOTHING to do with real life. Real people..NOT real life situations or real life personalities. I have been in RP guilds that were hating on dwarfs for an ancient dispute. We only went after dwarfs. Does that mean i hate dwarfs in real life? Again an idiotic notion.
You can RP a hardcore pvper. Infact many has. Just because there are people out there that just gank randomly with no purpose doesn't exlude those that has one in the sake of RP.
As i have already explained. If you play in a PvP based game with 4 factions lets say elves/humans/midgets/trolls. If i and a big group of other people from out own faction set up a guild and follow the lore why these 4 races are at war and hunt down the other 3 factions..That is essential RP'ing. The fact that a human is grouping with a troll and a midget can be seeing as being a traitor to their own kind and up for punishment. That punishment could be screwing up them sucking on the exp titty enjoying their PvE fun.
Now if you were one of those cross teamers like we used to call them back in the old EQ days i can understand why you would call somebody like me a doucebag that ruined your day of PvE fun.. doesn't change the fact you should have rolled non PvP if you can't hande being attacked.
The real doucebags are the PvE'ers that join PvP servers expecting to be left alone and only engaged in combat at their own leisure. Then when they think it's time to leave their exp tit, they want pvp to be a consesual duel. You need to have the same level of equipment. It has to be 1vs1 unless you are with a friend. In that case the pvp'er can also bring a friend. Then you bow and yell GO!! when everybody is ready to partake in this little PvP event. I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with real PvP. If you want that type of game then play WoW..You can roll a non pvp server and still do battle grounds. GTFO out of my free for all pvp game
No the only people that says you can't RP a hardcore PvP'er are the ones that can't handle being surprise attacked. The adrenaline rush they get is too much for them making them cuss and swear calling you an ahole. |
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I say yes because, if you're a bandit you wait in the bushes and attack whoever walks by. No rhyme or reason, just doing what thiefs do. Now ganking the same person over and over again on purpose would be to much. When Im out and about and I see the opposing faction I'll kill at first sight. I do that because most likely thats what they are thinking.
"So I slathered the bat with wesson oil and cream cheese." Johnny Tug |
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And thus we get the term "Asshole".
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Originally posted by cukimunga
The funny part is though. These people complaining about being killed over and over again by the same person, most likely said something back to him/her calling them names etc then wonder why they suddenty get singled out and hunted again and again. Seen it too often. "You prick get a life" and then they get what we call 'camped'. Maybe you should have kept your filthy mouth shut the first time around.
PvP sounds fun initially for a lot of people until they face an actual PvP'er. The kneejerk reaction of getting slaughtered and feeling a little adrenaline is too much for some. That's why we see random name calling and people crying on forums |
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This is pretty difficult in wow, since people from the other faction can't understand you. So when that alliance druid comes and camps your corpse, it's just because they can.
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To me this is a systemaic problem in PvP MMOs. People want their PvP to have meaning (just as they want their PvE, RP or crafting to have meaning). Developers have been getting better at developing this on the group level with RvR, city sieges, capturable territory, etc. However, on an individual level any PvP fight that is not part of group PvP usually has little to no meaning to the participants. Whether you get ganked or gank yourself the fights don't carry any weight and when it happens over and over lose any meaning. There is no skill challenge and the outcome of the fight does not have any effect on the game world. The only way to inject any meaning into the fight is to make it personal. Since the ganker does not have a real in-game reason for attacking that leaves only an out-of-game reason which makes it an out-of-game insult. This is actually why I think player-loot PvP games are better at this since there is always some meaning to any gank. It's easier to accept that "'it's not personal, just business".
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Originally posted by Fibsdk Your point is a 100% moot. It doesn't matter if games are played by real life people. You cannot compare what happens in a game to what happens in real life. Are you trying to say if i kill somebody in a game I'm just as likely to want to do the same in real life? No you and i both know that is an idiotic notion so i second that motion about this having NOTHING to do with real life. Real people..NOT real life situations or real life personalities. I have been in RP guilds that were hating on dwarfs for an ancient dispute. We only went after dwarfs. Does that mean i hate dwarfs in real life? Again an idiotic notion. Are you being purposefully obtuse?! I never said or meant any of the things you have listed. My point is that if you kill someone in game repeatedly and without that person having any chance to defend him/-herself that it is not the ingame character that is frustrated but the person at the keyboard. Thus, your ingame virtual actions have real life consequences. |
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Originally posted by Master_Razor
WoW isn't the only PvP game out there even though it is for some. Even if we are speaking about WoW there is even less reason to cry about being killed since there is zero consequences. |
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Originally posted by orionite Well lets look at it shall we?. You never said any of the things i listed?. No but you are quoting and speaking against a point here. If you are going to take an opposite stance of the guy you quoted and argue against his point. You are effectivly taking the side of what he is speaking up against. If you have your own point to make then quoting his point really isn't the correct way to go about it since the man is 100% correct in his assesment. Lets look at what he is speaking up against in this thread. I'll copy paste some of the braindead nonsense some of these forum users have been writing.
- Conclusion: PK gankers/griefers are just like alchoholics drinking Non-Alchoholic beer
- All a GANKER is a NO Lifer who has nothing better to do then RUIN the game with thier CHILD like antics to try to prove to themself that they may of been bullied in RL but NO one is going to BULLIE them in a VIRTUAL world. - I pity their poor pathetic lives that motivate them to take it out on others in an environment that gives them the power they don't possess in themselves.
-but unfortunaly many I have seen into this gank form are far from social people, regardless which game.
-I find gankers to be players of the nastier variety - personality wise.
Now if you are going to quote him telling how wrong he is you are effectivly taking the side of the people he is speaking against. That's the logical conclusion when you see somebody quoting and counter arguing their point. so you basically said those things by proxy. |
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The last of the Trackers
