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Originally posted by Wingma
So why didn't Blizzard send out an invoice, "oh btw, our game is changing this xpack to cater to our new fanbase that we obtained by running Mr T in our ads". Sure, MMORPGs change (and no, its not evolution, evolution implies improvement) just like WoW has, but Blizzard had to trick all the hardcores into buying WOTLK even though it wasn't their game anymore?
It is debatable whether or not the game has improved for the better, personally I know it hasn't, Blizzard has come to reusing their same content... e.g. dailies is just a bad excuse to do the same quests very day, achievements are just there recycle old or new content, raiding has been reduced to using old raiding instances not once, but twice in 10/25man forms because Blizzard is lazy.
So one could say, "lol blizz game sucks cause its got a new fanbase so it doesnt actually suck its just different", but in the end we all know they are just being lazy with their content rather then "applying to a fan base". They know their fanbase plays less then it used to and is rather stupid when it comes to game content, and they take advantage of that. Does that make it okay? (IMO, no it doesn't... they should send me an email saying that their game will have less content because casuals don't need as much). So tell me what they recycled besides Naxx? What else? Sorry I have done every raid in the game to date and there is nothing the same or recycled. Sure some boss fights are similar or quests are similar but I want to know what has been dliberately recycled. And honestly, by now, if you do not understand WHY they recycled Naxx, then you have not been paying attention at all. So one more time so you actually get it: Naxx was put in to vanilla WOW and was crazy tough. And no I do not mean tough to do (well it was), tough to get into. It was the ultimate hardcore instance at level 60. The problem was, it took the fanbase so long to get into and master it (trust me, the percentage of guilds that completed Naxx at 60 was very low), it soon became pointless because of BC launching. People lost interest and focused on the expansion. (note: Naxx came in June 2006 and BC in January 2007). Naxx literally became the forgotten instance. The issue though is that the devs have said time and time again, that it is their fav instance in the game. They love it. So they decided to come up with a way that everyone would see it - entry level raid for WOTLK. I see nothing wrong with that at all - they are proud of it and really wanted to share Naxx with the playerbase. And it really is a cool instance and honestly has some of my fav fights in the game. The game actually has more content than before. Sorry, two expansions and all of the additions with those expansions have greatly added to the content in the game. There is plenty to do in the game without raiding nightly or grinding anything. I hate to say it but the MMO community is changing greatly. It has nothing to do with WOW or Blizzard; the blame is life itself right now. Look at everything. TV you can pause or record and fast forward through commericals. Music you can download and play straight from the computer. 30 minute news cycles. Facebook, Twitter...all about the here and now. So much of life is now quicker and easier and game companies have realized WE have less time to spend. Do I agree that its best for games and the players? Maybe or maybe not. However, it sells and Blizzard has taken advantage of the opportunity the change has brought. I am still in touch of the majority of my raiding guild from EQ....A guild who put in hours upon hours every night. Guess what 90% of us are playing? WOW or WAR. So I asked in our forums...why not player harder games where they are more of a time sink? The replies: a resounding "Sorry I do not have the time". The majority of the MMO audience is slightly older than I think most people think. Many of us 30+ are the ones who were there at the beginning. Many of the new players were brough in because of WOW. They are not MMO fans, they are WOW fans. They will not try the next big game. They think all games fail compared to WOW and they are not interested in debating MMO's. They think WOW is THE MMO. Those of us who have been around the genre a while are older and have families and kids now and many responsibilities. We will gravitate to a game like WOW because it gives us the freedom to play a game we enjoy within the constraints of our daily life. On a side-note, being a WOW player doesn't make you stupid or less of a player. Playing _______ doesn't make you more of a player or smarter. People play what they like and that's it. Playing WOW versus another game is simply that WOW players usually have less time to spend gaming in long sessions in a time-sink anymore. Or we have done that and swear never again. How did Blizzard trick people into buying the expansion? I did not see Blizzard advertise it as hardcore paradise or a raiders dream. It is the game it has been for many months seince Khara and ZA. Hardcore raiders are not the fanbase of WOW now. It is that simple and I believe there is plenty of evidence out there indicating as such. I am sorry the game has changed...oh wait, no I am not. Hardcore raiding was killing WOW at launch. I know - I was there. I saw guild after guild fall apart because you couldn't get 40 people together nightly to raid. I saw friendships and relationships destroyed over DKP and raids failing and not working. I saw burnout so bad that people still will not mention WOW due to the memories it brings. Sure that might be WOW's glory days to some or make some very nostalgic about the game, but many sugar-coat and forget the hell that it was (outside of the few hardcore raiding guilds). Blizzard also realized they cannot kick content out fast enough to keep the raiders happy. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE EVEN WITH THEIR RESOURCES. So who are the first to leave? Raiders....so when you are making an executive business decision, who do you appeal too more: raiders who leave every few months, on to the next big thing; or casuals who keep playing month after month (for whatever reason); casuals who enjoy the game and enjoy playing the game. it is obvious why Blizzard changed the game and other than a small, hardcore group, I think the majority understands that. |
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Spadez88
Novice Member
Joined: 8/14/08
i am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. -Winston Churchhill- |
i Loved WOW when it 1st came out. i was like WOW a huge Mythlagical world just for me and my friends with every thing i could ever want! I loved the old world content. it was really really nice. The citys were always fun to just chill in with my guild and friends. then the Xpack came out i was happy about that. untill i actulay played it. Just seemed like a bad novel that tryed to blend future with past. i played eventaly accepting that wow was changeing. they then put out the blood elf island. that was mildley entertaing and it kept my intrest with new gear and easy cash makeing. then they changed spec's. i loved that and i was like hells ya they are makein this worth playing the next Xpac. Hell i was the one survival hunter in my guild and they made my spec even better. Then the Xpac came out and i played for a month or 2. looked at the content and then looked at how much time i wasted playing wow. cancled my membership and left. After years of playing on and off. i look back it was mabey 3 years. even if my old threads did say 1 year it had to be close to 3, i find my self looking back at what wow was not what it is now. i mean we have bikes now? really? kind of killed it for me that and many other things. Hell if you like the game grats and have fun but too me it jsut seems like its a water down version of what it used to be. I had to Slap my friend playing DnD the other day becase he wanted to make a death knight. Shows what reach blizzard has. its a affecting a game thats older then the company its self. could be worse we all could be spending time bitching about this ga.....OMG ITS HAPPENING! THEY HAVE TAKEN OVER EVERY THING IN THE MMO COMMUNITY!!! just playing = ) CENTER] |
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I've played WoW since the day it came out. I completely finished our Naxx pre-bc. The problem is that they do recylce game mechanics that we've all seen before. If not in wow, in other games. The patchwerk encounter was one that was almost completely taken from another game. There also weren't many new mechanics introduced to raid bosses in BC. Ulduar 3.1 raid bosses are just Frankenstein encounters. They're made up of several different mechanics we've already seen before. It's not new content IMO. Hell, WoW and Starcraft seem ripped from Warhammer and Warhammer 40k anyway. Maybe they've never done anything original I could give you a 12 page report on things they recycle, but it wouldn't really be worth my time. It's also probably not worth my time to write this. BTW, I am still paying blizzard to do their recycled content. All though, that will end soon. I'm glad that you're having a fun time, but do read what people post here. A good 90% of the people who hate wow have it right. |
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Originally posted by repsem Have what right? People play the game they play to have fun and for no other reason (or so I hope). People who like WOW like it for a reason and people who hate it hate it for reasons, but it all boils down to personal opinion. There is no right or wrong game and no right or wrong opinion on the game. People who play EQ and DAOC have it right - in their opinion and people who play Darkfall have it right - in their opinion. And people who play WOW have it right, in their opinion. Sure WOW has changed and it isn't the game it use to be. The reasons it changed are varied but in the end, people who like the changes will continue to play. I hated TOA in DAOC and stopped playing. Other loved it. Neither are right or wrong, just a difference of opinion. Same with WOW. We are talking about opinion and people's interpretations of the game, not right and wrong.
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WoW is truly a testament to prove that some people never get sick of doing the same thing 24/7/365...and they'll pay to do it!! |
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Originally posted by templarga Have what right? People play the game they play to have fun and for no other reason (or so I hope). People who like WOW like it for a reason and people who hate it hate it for reasons, but it all boils down to personal opinion. There is no right or wrong game and no right or wrong opinion on the game. People who play EQ and DAOC have it right - in their opinion and people who play Darkfall have it right - in their opinion. And people who play WOW have it right, in their opinion. Sure WOW has changed and it isn't the game it use to be. The reasons it changed are varied but in the end, people who like the changes will continue to play. I hated TOA in DAOC and stopped playing. Other loved it. Neither are right or wrong, just a difference of opinion. Same with WOW. We are talking about opinion and people's interpretations of the game, not right and wrong.
I was more or less referring to the fact that 99% of the game has been recycled with a new coat of paint. If people are having fun with the game, great. Blizzard is a business and they're good at doing business. I really don't know anyone in game now that actually thinks the game is really all that fun. They really just play because they know other people that play. It almost seems like it's just a big social meeting place for gamers with little mini games to play while you talk to other people. You're right though. A lot of people like playing the diluted and recycled game. As long as people keep paying their $15 a month, Blizzard doesn't really care. It's just more money in the piggy bank for their new game :) |
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Originally posted by JGMIII
Yep your right the WoW player base definetly wants limited instanced pvp, a tedious pvp zone, easier dungeons, imbalanced classes and daily quests that turn the game into a job. Do you actually read the WoW forums? Alot of WoW players are so addicted they won;t leave but believe me those guys are bitching about the game and the direction blizzard is taking the whole thing. I don't remember one person back in the day asking Blizzard to make WoW a Esport. You are playing War now. No dueling, no Arena play option, NO PvP data to gather to tune classes. NO Lake Wintergrasp (the destructable keeps, the tank to tank battles, the moving Siege artillery....) NO Massively 100/100 world battles EVERY night multiple times on EVERY server. NO daily world PvP quests with a PVE theme to eliminate those artificial War RvR zones (with chicken mechanics). ALL BG's available at end game level. NO DUAL spec classes and classes that can be full tanks, full dps, full healers with just the setting of the 61 talent settings. Wow's fluid PvP spell actions and responsiveness is unmatched in the mmorpg world and .... everyone knows it - even the haters. Wow, yeah----> now you know why 600.000 left War in their first 3 months (75% of the player base). .... And about 100 times better PVE and 3D "fly over" world design than War will ever have tx to those morons like Mark Jacobs. Jesus it is NOT difficult to see why Wow retention is 10 times better than the game you play now. |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
Yep your right the WoW player base definetly wants limited instanced pvp, a tedious pvp zone, easier dungeons, imbalanced classes and daily quests that turn the game into a job. Do you actually read the WoW forums? Alot of WoW players are so addicted they won;t leave but believe me those guys are bitching about the game and the direction blizzard is taking the whole thing. I don't remember one person back in the day asking Blizzard to make WoW a Esport. You are playing War now. Damn right I am as my Second MMO behind Eve Online which is also a much better Pvp experience then WoW by far. No dueling, no Arena play option, NO PvP data to gather to tune classes. This is a Group focused Game we don't need duels or lame Esports to mess up balance, WAR is more balanced then WoW, Classes here have clear cut disadvantages by design to have player focus more on team play. NO Lake Wintergrasp (the destructable keeps, the tank to tank battles, the moving Siege artillery....) Only one lame zone that lags like a bitch with over 100 people in it, people treat that PoS zone like its a daily quest and leave... it's souless. last night in WAR I had 3 warbands in tier 2 content and we fought over Zone control over three and a half hours. WAR is just a better pvp game and a much better group pvp experience. WoW can't compare. NO Massively 100/100 world battles EVERY night multiple times on EVERY server. Every night I hold mu;ltiple Warband Orvr fights with crazy ass keep battles and EVERY server in WAR at peak times is packed with Orvr thats what we do and mythic is the best at it. You should log into the trial man, the servers are crowded. NO daily world PvP quests with a PVE theme to eliminate those artificial War RvR zones (with chicken mechanics). We don't need a limited daily quest for pvp ORvR zones have multiple quests that can be done over and over as you control a BO or keep, And the chicken mechanic is in place to stop newb WoW players like urself from ganking low levels (we all know WoW players love doing that). As a side note Orvr servers dont have that mechanic. ALL BG's available at end game level. Gratz you have 5+ bland BGs at endgame while I've had 3 every tier and 8+ at endgame plus new SCs added for events lol...... NO DUAL spec classes and classes that can be full tanks, full dps, full healers with just the setting of the 61 talent settings. We don't need it, we have real classes here that rely on groups and team work, not lame jack of all trade classes that toss pvp balance out the window. Wow's fluid PvP spell actions and responsiveness is unmatched in the mmorpg world and .... everyone knows it - even the haters. WoWs pvp is nothing but a skillless strafefest while rolling my face along my keyboard with macros. It takes actual skill to use a tank in WAR rvr, while my WoW warrior can spamm four abilities and pwn people. Also WARs gameplay tosses the FPS kiddies out in thier ass forcing them to actually think about the situation around them and not just move around like chickens with heads cut off to win. Wow, yeah----> now you know why 600.000 left War in their first 3 months (75% of the player base). All WoW players that never intended to stay in the first place, now with the trial WAR is booming with packed Orvr and PQs in the pve areas. My guild is over 380 members large with over 100 Ex wow players that just left WotLK I can count the guys on one hand that havent bought the game after the trial. Hell most of them are already messing with early T3 and loving the crazy ass battles and all consider WG lame.
And about 100 times better PVE and 3D "fly over" world design than War will ever have tx to those morons like Mark Jacobs. You call sad scheduled raids and daily quests that turn WoW into a job better Pve? also WAR isnt a pve game yet still have a better ToK feature and PQs blow away WoWs generic group quests even with thier little phasing mechanic, what good is WoWs Pve if everyone solos 24/7? Jesus it is NOT difficult to see why Wow retention is 10 times better than the game you play now. WoW is crack, WAR is a much better game from level/Rank 1, its a total experience in every tier. WoW is a freak of nature full of a addicted playerbase that enjoys a vanilla basic feature EQ knock off.
See Zorn I can pull this shit out of my ass also, just like you.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom |
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Originally posted by repsem Warhammer ripped so much from Tolkien's work. Blasphemy. 'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.' |
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Originally posted by Bellise Warhammer ripped so much from Tolkien's work. Blasphemy.
Every Fantasy story rips "so much" off Tolkien. Orcs are entirely his, so is Mythril. Every game has both of those.
People who hate WoW because the Endgame is dull after doing it a hundred times need to tell me what they still find fun after constantly repeating the same thing over and over again. I mean honestly, every theme park will end up with you grinding the most recent content until your blue in the face. Most people get tired of repeating things again and again, it doesn't really mater what you are repeating. I used to love playing in a band, but after a while it got old, just like raiding in WoW did.
The only reason to play an MMO is for the social aspect, if your looking for a great adventure there are hundreds of single player games that can provide a pleathora of entertaining stories. Find a guild, make friends, play game. ANY Game will have the same problems, if you arn't playing it to make friends your playing it for the wrong reasons. |
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Originally posted by Jerid13
Every Fantasy story rips "so much" off Tolkien. Orcs are entirely his, so is Mythril. Every game has both of those.
People who hate WoW because the Endgame is dull after doing it a hundred times need to tell me what they still find fun after constantly repeating the same thing over and over again. I mean honestly, every theme park will end up with you grinding the most recent content until your blue in the face. Most people get tired of repeating things again and again, it doesn't really mater what you are repeating. I used to love playing in a band, but after a while it got old, just like raiding in WoW did.
The only reason to play an MMO is for the social aspect, if your looking for a great adventure there are hundreds of single player games that can provide a pleathora of entertaining stories. Find a guild, make friends, play game. ANY Game will have the same problems, if you arn't playing it to make friends your playing it for the wrong reasons.
Exactly. 'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.' |
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Originally posted by Jerid13
Every Fantasy story rips "so much" off Tolkien. Orcs are entirely his, so is Mythril. Every game has both of those.
People who hate WoW because the Endgame is dull after doing it a hundred times need to tell me what they still find fun after constantly repeating the same thing over and over again. I mean honestly, every theme park will end up with you grinding the most recent content until your blue in the face. Most people get tired of repeating things again and again, it doesn't really mater what you are repeating. I used to love playing in a band, but after a while it got old, just like raiding in WoW did.
The only reason to play an MMO is for the social aspect, if your looking for a great adventure there are hundreds of single player games that can provide a pleathora of entertaining stories. Find a guild, make friends, play game. ANY Game will have the same problems, if you arn't playing it to make friends your playing it for the wrong reasons. So very true. No game is better than WOW and no game is worse than WOW because it is based on someone's opinion of the game. I hate WAR because it has soul-less PVP. It is the ultimate theme park to me. I mean keeps sieges that reset minutes after you take the keep versus DAOC where keep sieges took days to plan? After night after night of keep raids in WAR, I said what's the point - half the time the keep got retaken before I logged off. Now that doesn't make it a bad game or a good game, it makes it ther wrong game for me. I have no issue with people liking or hating WOW - where I take exception is saying that WOW players are dumb, stupid or less of a player than some other games because they like WOW. If you ask around, MANY Wow players are old-school MMO players who grew up on EQ. MMO's by definition are reptitive. It doesn't matter what you are doing - sieges in WAR, PVP in AOC, ship battles in EVE, GCW in SWG, quests in LOTRO....it is all repetitious. People do not hang around MMO's for the awesome gameplay, they hang around because of the social aspect. I love my guild. It makes the difference in WOW now. 90% of my guild are working adults with spouses and children. We log on and its "How did that presentation go at work?"; "Is your wife/child/husband over the flu?"; "How did that job interview go?". We are friends and enjoy each other's company. Single players games are better games. They have better stories, better skills, better quests, better everything. if it was pure game play and story, I would take BioShock and Dead Space over an MMO any day. I play MMO's not for the gameplay but for the social aspect. I also get confused why people think playing WOW means doing the SAME thing every night. How this is different from ______ MMO is beyond me but for the last week I have not done the same thing except to complete stuff we didn't finish. Take a look at last week's gaming schedule for me (level 80 shaman): Monday: Did not play. Sorry 24 and House are more important. :) Tuesday: Helped take Wintergrasp for the Horde. Did 25 man VoA. Wednesday: Our guilds first real trip into 25 man Naxx. We did well for our guild. Thursday: Took some less geared players into Naxx 10 man for gear. Didn't have too - chose too help. Friday: Leveled alt with my wife's character - this is her first MMO and this will be her first 80. Saturday: Finished 25 man Naxx as much as we could. Sunday: Worked on some trade skills (cooking and fishing) and finished off quests in Grizzly Hills (trying for LoreMaster achievement). That was my WOW for the week. I did not repeat anything except Naxx which was to be expected (and I only did this [10/25 man] to help out other players - I gained nothing from 10 man Naxx now). I enjoyed every minute of it and had fun with it. At no time, did I feel like I was grinding or being forced to repeat stuff. Sorry i just get more and more frustrated when I read the same arguments time and time again (like WOW being so grinding or repititous) that try to make WOW look so much worse than other MMO's. They are pretty much all the same right now, its just the type of repetitious behavior is different. |
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Originally posted by Thradar
You, sir, deserve a +1 for this post. Made my day. |
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Originally posted by Angorim
You, sir, deserve a +1 for this post. Made my day.
I like the "some" statement. Replace it with 90% of mmorpg players like to do it and pay $15 for it. As Wow has 90% of the paid subscription market. 11.500.000 against the others struggling to have 50 K to 200K at best. EVE = 250 K and all other WAY below in the western based mmo's. |
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Originally posted by JGMIII
I like the "some" statement. Replace it with 90% of mmorpg players like to do it and pay $15 for it. As Wow has 90% of the paid subscription market. 11.500.000 against the others struggling to have 50 K to 200K at best. EVE = 250 K and all other WAY below in the western based mmo's. <Mod Edit>
I only see one regular visiting War troll in our Wow forums. And he's quickly running out of arguments. :))) Now I reckon it is not easy to defend a game which constantly needs to merge servers and loose players, And btw Xfire is BIG a sample of a few hundred thousand PC players using the internet in the western world on a minute by minute basis. Tx to Xfire we know AoC and WAR were melting faster than snow for sun at 90°F after 4 weeks. And - a pity for you - these trends were confirmed by their makers ... after 5 months. If you think War is gaining new players. Well their Xfire number is still 25% lower than the Xmas numbers, so it will all be the same trend as earlier attempts. People left massively in the War Beta, at launch, by Xmas and now. 20% retention rate over 3 months. That would mean Wow would have 2 million world players instead of 11.500.000 by now. It shows some of the F A I L of War. |
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Originally posted by HydrobluntX
<Duplicate accounts are bad m'kay>
Answering your own created posts won't do you any good mate. Reported. I just happen to love playing World of Warcraft and certainly its PvP, like so many in the world of mmorpg's. So I defend my game and its excellent game mechanics. If that doesn't suit you in a .... Wow forum , go ----> that way.
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Ramonski7
 Elite Member
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Answering your own created posts won't do you any good mate. Reported. I just happen to love playing World of Warcraft and certainly its PvP, like so many in the world of mmorpg's. So I defend my game and its excellent game mechanics. If that doesn't suit you in a .... Wow forum , go ----> that way.
Bravo Zorndorf, these guys are still in here spewing their poison? I mean come on already. Get with the program. You are in a WoW forum trying to belittle the players that play and gained as much distance as a monkey running on ice with tap dancing shoes. It's fruitless for you to try anymore. FAILED! You and the game you play will not find anymore players to share your current passion. It's like those people that try to stop you in the mall to take one of those damn surveys.....so you try not to make eye contact in hopes that they don't bother you, only to have them ask you anyway....one word....SCRAM!
 "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas." |
Originally posted by Ramonski7
It should be noted that this thread STARTED in the Pub in the General Discussion forums, and was later moved to the WoW forums. |
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Originally posted by soap46
I will give you about 2 months after you level cap. You will probably hate the boring grind of everything in the game or how easy it is to get things now. With 11.5 mil rumored subs which many think is false. Blizzard needs to keep 'em happy so here's "FREE LOOTZ!!!" I got to 70 3 weeks during BC and won't pay $40 and then another $15 to play a gay game that will take a week to finish. As far as i'm concerned...there is no end-game content in this game. There is only endless boring grinding. I won't stop you from playing the game but for the record...when you quit, you can look back at this post. |
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Originally posted by Magter So much assumption in your post. You assume he and everyone else plays the game like you do. You assume he and everyone else has the same opinion on the game as you do. You assume that the end-game is easy for everyone. You assume that everyone thinks the end game is a grind. If you finish a game in a week, the WOW isn't for you. But it makes it no less of a game or easier game for everyone else. Next time you post to insult players, try and remember that others do enjoy the game and find it fun and not everyone approaches a game just like you do. |
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Originally posted by Thradar
I have not paid for WoW in 6 month ... Scroll of resurection+MMORPG.com FTW A big thank you to all who took up the offer =D
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
Answering your own created posts won't do you any good mate. Reported. I just happen to love playing World of Warcraft and certainly its PvP, like so many in the world of mmorpg's. So I defend my game and its excellent game mechanics. If that doesn't suit you in a .... Wow forum , go ----> that way.
I played WoW from 2004 till early 2009 and generally had a great time over that expanse. I made some good friends who I even play EvE with now (which is the game I've moved on to). Are there horrible faults in WoW? Yes, certainly. Is it still a fun game? Generally speaking, yes. I agree with whoever said that arguing the merits of a game; especially based on numbers (as Zorndorf loves to) is pretty pointless. Either you'll like it or you won't, or you did and you don't now, whatever the case - people outgrow games likfe kids outgrow clothes and eventually every one moves on to something different. My main gripe is with the above response. Zorndorf seems to be pretty "statisticaly" knowledgable about WoW (perhaps bordering on obsessed) but refusing to hear critisizm of your game will not make it better. Really, it'll probably make it worse. Instead of blasting people with stats (some of which I've seen repeated numerous times in seperate threads) you might try ackowledging the fact that we're all gamers too, and our opinions are valid as paying (or formerly paying) customers of Blizzard's product. Telling people to leave the WoW forum if they have nothing good to say about WoW is entirely couter-productive...in my opinion. |
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Originally posted by soap46
Well said. My life exists outside the gaming world, not in it. I have a job and go to college at the same time. I'm not going to play a game where I have to stand around someplace begging for people to let me play with them so I can advance. That shit wasn't popular in it's day and is why developers have moved away from it. If a game becomes a chore and isn't fun, then people won't play it. At least not enough for a company to justify the expense. If you don't want to play the game, don't bore everyone by stating as much. Just don't play and move on because nobody cares to hear a soapbox. |
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