I'd go with the idea that gear does decay, but it's of a very defined "style". If you want to maintain that appearance, you need to get another piece of gear of the same style. Material/stats doesn't really matter that much, visually. The same style would be available to different items, so one could have a matching set.

Granted, appearance wouldn't be able to tell you much about a person by their look (unlike in other MMOs where the gear/spec determines the look), but there'd be plenty of customization. Styles could be limited based on skill or locked by quests (having to pilgrimage to different towns to visit master smiths?), though that is optional.

I say let people look however they want and gear should not be displayed on characters.

As people progress, they unlock new bits to customize their looks - so veteran and hardcore players can still look "uber" to demonstrate their efforts. In the end, all games are trying to do this. If there is "optimal gear" for a class or level or whatever, everyone is going to have it and look exactly the same. That's boring.

A character's appearance and power should be unrelated in as many ways as possible. Somebody will like the way something looks but not want the developer-determined pros and cons associated with it (maybe the players think of it differently), so being unable to look stylish (in their sense of fashion) and still remain optimally functional would be a turn-off to many.

And yes to gear decay. Sure beats a stagnant economy.

I want all craftable gear to be interactive, so you can design a piece of armour by mixing parts of skin together and colour.

Say that you have 3 parts that mixes together and colours for them. Then you could have a number say: 087B132R054B wher each thre numbers are a specific skin with the colour written behind it. Then you add effects in some cases like a glow or shadow.

So you just tell a crafter to copy that style you like.

Alternative you could have a look on TCoS where you add sigils to the gear and your stuff always looks the same. A bit boring to me that like odd skins and want to look unique.

A good crafting system where you can design your own gear is the best way to have your character look just the way you want.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

I assume we all know the benefits of having gear decay and it needing to be replaced.  It creates more point to crafting and stimulates the in-game economy etc.

But recently I was reminded of why I don't always like having my gear decay, if I find an oufit that I like eventually it will be destroyed and I will have to find something else to slap on, in fact the faster my gear decays the less I care about my gear, which seems counter productive if you were trying to make gear highly customizable, especially visual customization.

I think the appearence of my gear plays a big part in my character concept and if I go around changing gear out then my character identity isn't as solid as I would like it to be.  CoX for example let me design and keep my costume the entire time if I desired, which made my character easy to recognize and actually made my costume choice matter more.

So I supose the issue becomes, how do you make it so that the player can develope a look for their character and keep it in perpetuum but still have the economic boosts of item decay?

I figure the easiest solution would be to make it so that when your gear breaks you can go to a crafter, player or NPC, and they can copy your previous design, either entirely, stats and all, or just the appearence, and let the crafter rebalance your gears stats incase you want to try a new tactic out but want to look the same.

Having to replace your gear with better gear gives you the same problem, but I figure a simple upgrade system could be used to keep the gear's look but increase the stat bonuses, if you were doing that type of game anyway.

But I have to wonder is this an issue for anybody else or is it just me, and if so how would you go about it?

I don't think i have ever seen a person wear the same outfit everyday in real life.So i cannot see why anyone would want to do that in a game?I am all for gear decay,but it would have to be realistic and not decay everyday.I play a game right now and decay starts the first time you kill,i find that a bit ridiculous.I also think there should be some sort of repair option to counter decay.IDK something along the lines of 200 fights and you need repair or risk unrepairable decay.

I can see a big downfall if decay is to rapid.Imagine you are out killing time farming or killing a few things to pass the time,then you get a call for a group,sorry i can't come my gear is at 60%id be useless to your xp party.This scenario happens a lot ,we have all been thrown into a party situation in the spur of the moment.If you make it too easy to repair,then what is the sense of the system?

Originally posted by JB47394

ketrine and Velexia, tell me about crafting.  What makes a crafter a crafter?  A willingness to manufacture piles of progressively better items?  A willingness to spend skill points on crafting?  A willingness to pay for recipes?  A willingness to use their player skills to craft?  Something else?

I don't have much time to post, but I think the primary thing that drives me in crafting is the fun of just making things.  A lot of us are helpful people who enjoy making useful things for our friends too, and we also like crafting to create profit, and rightly so since it takes a lot of time to level a crafter it should be worth it.  It really does depend on the game's attitude towards crafters though, since in a game like LOTRO there is little reason to craft when it is so expensive and the items you make aren't as good as items looted off a raid.  SWG is the best game for crafters, right now I am an architect and I am decorating my houses with all the furniture I can make... very fun for a crafter.  More later, I have to run!

Originally posted by Wizardry

I don't think i have ever seen a person wear the same outfit everyday in real life.So i cannot see why anyone would want to do that in a game?I am all for gear decay,but it would have to be realistic and not decay everyday.I play a game right now and decay starts the first time you kill,i find that a bit ridiculous.I also think there should be some sort of repair option to counter decay.IDK something along the lines of 200 fights and you need repair or risk unrepairable decay.

I can see a big downfall if decay is to rapid.Imagine you are out killing time farming or killing a few things to pass the time,then you get a call for a group,sorry i can't come my gear is at 60%id be useless to your xp party.This scenario happens a lot ,we have all been thrown into a party situation in the spur of the moment.If you make it too easy to repair,then what is the sense of the system?

 

There is a big difference between outfits and armor.  Additionally, people who travel through the wilderness often wear the same "outfit" because it begins to develop a natural scent.  Repair should always be an option; sewing clothes, sharpening blades, etc.

I don't believe that the amount of "decay" on the gear should be visible to the players.  It should be an intuitive thing.  Also, I believe that in stress situations, an item can reach a critical point, such as a sword blocking the heavy swing of a great axe, the sword may very well snap. 

In that case, you would have to surrender, run away, or use a different weapon, or whatever you come up with, which means all of those options should be available to you (running from, or surrendering to a pack of wolves might not be the best idea.  Climb a tree!).

Originally posted by Velexia

Originally posted by Wizardry

I don't think i have ever seen a person wear the same outfit everyday in real life.So i cannot see why anyone would want to do that in a game?I am all for gear decay,but it would have to be realistic and not decay everyday.  An interesting thing to note about this subject is that many of the fantasy games although they include magic are medieval in their technology.  In the middle ages, the renaissance, and up until the industrialization of the 19th century, many people really only had one or two outfits because of the cost of making new clothes.  Thus, it is fitting that in these games we will have to spend a larger percent of our money buying fewer clothes.  Scifi games should be different, however, since the world includes the technology to produce cheap industrial fabrics and fibers.  Should you choose to make clothes magically, this may change.

I play a game right now and decay starts the first time you kill,i find that a bit ridiculous.I also think there should be some sort of repair option to counter decay.IDK something along the lines of 200 fights and you need repair or risk unrepairable decay. 

I can see a big downfall if decay is to rapid.Imagine you are out killing time farming or killing a few things to pass the time,then you get a call for a group,sorry i can't come my gear is at 60%id be useless to your xp party.This scenario happens a lot ,we have all been thrown into a party situation in the spur of the moment.If you make it too easy to repair,then what is the sense of the system? We could have decay progress slowly during normal fighting, but quickly based on the number of times your character is defeated.  That way, you would be rewarded for playing smart.

 

 

There is a big difference between outfits and armor.  Additionally, people who travel through the wilderness often wear the same "outfit" because it begins to develop a natural scent.  Repair should always be an option; sewing clothes, sharpening blades, etc.

I don't believe that the amount of "decay" on the gear should be visible to the players.  It should be an intuitive thing.  Also, I believe that in stress situations, an item can reach a critical point, such as a sword blocking the heavy swing of a great axe, the sword may very well snap. 

In that case, you would have to surrender, run away, or use a different weapon, or whatever you come up with, which means all of those options should be available to you (running from, or surrendering to a pack of wolves might not be the best idea.  Climb a tree!). Haha.. this is an interesting idea.  Tree climbing should only work on animal mobs though.

Originally posted by ketrine

Originally posted by Velexia

In that case, you would have to surrender, run away, or use a different weapon, or whatever you come up with, which means all of those options should be available to you (running from, or surrendering to a pack of wolves might not be the best idea.  Climb a tree!). Haha.. this is an interesting idea.  Tree climbing should only work on animal mobs though.

 

The answer is simple. Don't let the costumes decay. Move the "stats" to another place or eliminate this

Don't forget costumes is a stronger sandbox element. Tailors can design the outfits. Players can buy the outfits. Players will hold contests to pick best outfits. Guilds will wear matching outfits. Husband and wife will wear matching outfits. This much more creative then crafting anyway, which is normally a repetitive and grindy activity.

Replace crafting altogether with 'design'. Tailoring, now that has potential. City of Heroes tapped into it but a sandbox superhero game can take this to next level

How bout crafting new powers? and make this receipe a secret that only the creator knows

Sandbox, that is sandbox

See, the items players wear gives them a sense of pride and accomplishment. It becomes a part of their identity / avatar. It also becomes their 'brand recognition'. I will recognize bob by his outfit

And see, economy is still there. And we can still let players build other items whether it be potions or guns or weapons. But costumes- that is special. It allows me to roleplay the hero I really want to be

For reference: checkout Fable 2. 'slightly' different approach then city of heroes.

Originally posted by ketrine

As someone who has recently started playing SWG after a 3.5 year break from it, I was remided of how cool it is to "experiment" on items.  Perhaps this would be a useful way to balance an item between ease of use and protection.  If you want more protection, put all your points in protection.  If you want to have better stealth and range of motion, put all your points into that.

How about bringing your "ruined breastplate" to a crafter who could then "copy appearance" and "modify appearance" based on what you want the next one too look like.  This would create a schematic in the crafter's knowledge base that would allow the crafter to learn how to make the breastplate look like the one you just broke.  Also, looted equipment could be in the form of schematics that a crafter could use instead of being equippable right after you cut it out of the dragon's belly.  A crafter could very well be reliant upon someone going out and looting a schematic that could then be assimilated into his knowledge base, and that could be how a crafter "levels" in a skill based game.  A crafter who has played for a year will have 10,000 items he knows how to make, but the crafter who has been playing a week only has the 7 ones he looted off the rats in the newbie yard. 

After reading through the whole thread, I was really most inspired by this (the whole post but I had to highlight something haha).

Even if it wasn't schematics...like drop schematics completely since they are really just a placeholder for unuseable items, and just use equipment.  Any equipment can be basically reverse engineered and added to your "patterns known" and loosely dependent on a general knowledge of crafting skill level or specialty. 

So this also assumes that that breastplate with the elven etchings found in the dragon's belly was indeed ruined.  But the skilled crafter (perhaps even low 'level' but has specialty in runes), will be able to learn how to recreate these additions and perhaps repair the armor.  Also, the crafter can now recreate these learned elements.

This creates a very interesting relationship between crafter and adventurer. An adventurer might find something quite unique that many crafters will want to pick apart to gain the secrets (Does the armor become 'unreadable' by another since the crafter had to take it apart? Is it possible for any crafter to line up and learn from the piece like researchers flocking to some archeological find?).

So ideally I also think that decay is needed to keep the crafting going, but it is wholly dependant on the crafting system that is in place. In order to maintain an identity for character, which I think is important for the majority (myself included), having crafters around to repair, modify, upgrade, and fix broken items is just the natural next step. And of course...this involves having crafting as more than a system that one guy works on in his spare time then tacks it on just before release.

And while say Horizons implemented an attempt at craft customization where you could pick haft, pommel, blade style, etc., I remember it as being a system wholly for the very advanced.  If a system were to be made viable, it would indeed need to catologue those "10000" different recipes.  All assets in the world would need be modular and varied to the extent that even low level crafters could enjoy putting a seagull feather on their rusty dagger, or some burlap tassles on their sandles lol.

edit: And if you don't want decay, then give the tailors something to do with great clothing styles like in Anarchy Online. You can have your look and multiple styles that portray what you want while also having a decay system for things that people consider functional.