Originally posted by Trueth

Vanguard shit the bed. The game is freaking dead. About 450 players spread over 4 different servers.

You wish. At peak times, the 2 US PvE servers consistently have well over 1000 players each. And the populations are slowly growing.

I have played, extensively, every single Western fantasy MMO ever released starting with DAoC (except for Horizons, Shadowbane, and AC2), and Vanguard is, hands down, the best, most challenging and fun PVE game I've played.

But if you're looking for easy-mode gameplay, or PvP, then no, Vanguard is not for you.

Originally posted by PapaB34R

Never played Vanguard in the first place first it was published by a nonfamiliar MMO producer then givin "Microsoft" logo.. Was a hate for me. Then the Bugs and whining and flaming started... so the game died, or atleast so I thought. Still a free trial is a free trial, cant hurt to see wether its good or bad

im pretty sure it was a guy who worked on eq that helped  with this game lol

not that vg was a good game

Originally posted by Kullision

im pretty sure it was a guy who worked on eq that helped  with this game lol

Brad McQuaid, one of the creators of EQ. He left the development of EQ2 to found Sigil to make Vanguard. Ironically, it was he and the rest of the (mis)management at Sigil that almost killed Vanguard. Microsoft dropped them because of it. If it wasn't for SOE, VG would not exist today.

Originally posted by LethalBurst

Originally posted by Trueth

Vanguard shit the bed. The game is freaking dead. About 450 players spread over 4 different servers.

 

You wish. At peak times, the 2 US PvE servers consistently have well over 1000 players each. And the populations are slowly growing.

I have played, extensively, every single Western fantasy MMO ever released starting with DAoC (except for Horizons, Shadowbane, and AC2), and Vanguard is, hands down, the best, most challenging and fun PVE game I've played.

But if you're looking for easy-mode gameplay, or PvP, then no, Vanguard is not for you.

This is true.....I regularly find about 1100-1200 players at peak times on Seradon. I've been enjoying my time back in VG, but as others have stated it's not going to be for everyone.

If you're a PVP player or need to be thrust into constant action....it's not the game for you. Being an EQ vet it's the best game out there for me and I've tried most of them. 

Originally posted by neonwire

Yay another crappy Vanguard advert. Will they ever stop coming?

The main selling point for the game is the fact that its landscapes look quite nice and also some of its monster models are well made but as I have just started playing Chronicles of Spellborn it all looks quite silly in comparison. Anyway how about trying to advertise the game by showing off the awesome player avatars? Go on OP give us a close up of some of those fine sexy models lol

But yes come to the land of Vanguad where "freedom" is at your fingertips. YOU can choose your destiny. YOU can go anywhere and do ANYTHING. Yes indeed you can wander anywhere over this pretty and yet lifeless landscape. You can run for hours on end marveling at the sky and the trees and the rocks......and the super-fast respawning mobs standing around waiting to be killed by you the paying customer. Come and visit the lively settlements populated with npc statues. Oh yes its all happening in Vanguard. See that mountain off in the distance? Well you can go there! See that patch of woodland? Well you can go there. You wont find anything there except more braindead cloned mobs or perhaps if you're lucky a quest giver.....oooooh ahhhhh. And then you can walk or fly to the next mountain off in the distance. You can do this for hours, weeks, months or years just travelling across the land and.....errmm.....marvelling at the sights. Did I mention you can go anywhere? At Vanguard the fun never stops

God, what a tool.  Shouldn't you be watching tv? 

And before you dig deep into your intellect for the obligatory 'shouldn't you being playing VG' retort, yes, I should be and wish I was, but unfortunately I'm stuck at work.  Thanks for breaking up the monotony with some comedy though.

New Poster??  SOE sending employees to post on the boards to promote their product?   (chuckling) It looked more like a Ad then a post.. 

Originally posted by Rydeson

New Poster??  SOE sending employees to post on the boards to promote their product?   (chuckling) It looked more like a Ad then a post.. 

hehe...

Ya know I was thinking the same thing.  The OP reeks of an advertisement.

Even if he is it doesnt mean he isnt right. The game is perfect for the old-school eq1 type mmoer.

Originally posted by spitfire1525

If anyone bought Vanguard a while back and left for legit reasons (it was a piece of shit)... I would come back and try it out.   They have made so many changes and improvements, the game is awesome to play.    The game was always fun to play, it was just those obstacles of performance and bugs that killed it

 

since launch:

• 1000's of bug fixes
• 50-60% performance increase
• ALOT of class improvements, balancing. etc
• New player models!! teh sexay is back!  improved performance with new models
• Lots of new content for 50's (Shores of darkness,  Bridge of destiny, APW, etc).
• New raid zone , Pantheon of ancients is being deployed to test this week!  Goes live real real soon!

 

If you're new.   14 day free trial here - http://vanguard.station.sony.com/isleofdawn/

Not to mention,  Vanguard is best looking MMORPG on the market (yes > AoC).  See the screenshot below if you think otherwise.

 

 

 

sounds like a shiller to me. account is 1 day old and he/she is promoting a game.

If you don't believe them because their account is one day old, let me back them up.

The game has improved tons, it's worth giving a second try. When playing I ran into few bugs and had a lot of fun playing solo and running dungeons with a group. Frankly, I think it's one of the best PvE MMORPGs out there, next to LOTRO. Just make sure you pick a well populated server like Xeth.

By the way, that screenshot that they posted, doesn't have the settings all the way up either. I believe you can still have the depth blurring and more ambient lighting.

Originally posted by FatGamer

I would love to get back into Vanguard. However, at the current back-burner state of the game with no promise of expansion or major content upgrades (at least in a timely fashion) it's hard to justify spending hours into a game that may just dissapear or even worse... left on life support.

 

Patheon of the Ancients, level cap increases and Alternate Abilities???  ......  Will be the biggest game update to date.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by FatGamer

I would love to get back into Vanguard. However, at the current back-burner state of the game with no promise of expansion or major content upgrades (at least in a timely fashion) it's hard to justify spending hours into a game that may just dissapear or even worse... left on life support.

 

 

Patheon of the Ancients, level cap increases and Alternate Abilities???  ......  Will be the biggest game update to date.

Think about what you just said and then compare it what other mmos have done in their games in the same 2+ year time span.  Saying something is the biggest when comparing it to itself hardly dismisses what fatgamer says. 

Love this game or hate it, the game does not have enough developer resources.  For some that is fine, but for many others that just means the game will not grow at a pace that is worthy of a time investment. 

5 more levels just means 5 more experience bars to fill.  That is not content.

Alternate advancement is just more experience bars to fill once you are done filling level experience bars.  That is not content.

Pantheon of the ancients is content, but how long has that been in the works now? 

Beyond that the majority of what you see in the game is a handful of zone revamps.  How long can the game keep that up before running out of areas to cannibilize?

This game is essentially on life support being operated by a skeleton crew.  If there is something to point to the oposite of that it would be refreshing news, but things are what they are. 

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by syllvenwood

VSoH is unfortunatly not a game for people with the attention span of a gnat and expecting everything to be handed to them on a platter, oohh darn thats a good portion of the modern mmo community and pvp players, good thing they hate it. Means only good players are in the game, i do look forward to coming back even more!

 

People play computer games for entertainment. Vanguard just isnt entertaining to a lot of people. Many people just dont think its fun to play. If it makes you feel superior by looking down on the majority of the gaming community and deluding yourself into thinking they are all stupid for not playing Vanguard then go ahead. What ever works for you.

It feels like you are being superior and essentially dissing something that actually might be fun for some? Granted, the attention span comment did seem harsh but the spirit of the statement is that one really does have to have an attention span that appreciate a more, shall we say, "glacial" game.

You indicate that the game just isn't entertaining to a lot of people. I can buy that. But why is the converse not considered where Vanguard might be entertaining for some? As far as the world goes, I'm paying a monthly subscription precisely because it is a huge world. I'm tired of small worlds where everything seems orchestrated to easy for the players. I'm tired of game companies like Turbine making things easier when I don't want them to be.

The Great Forest in LOTRO used to be fun. It was a place you could really get lost in, and it was dangerous. Then they changed it and now it's sort of meh to my taste.

And as you stated, in Vanguard you can go anywhere but all you will find is more landscape or mobs or a quest giver. But isn't that what most of these games offer?

I am really enjoying my time in LOTRO, but it is the same thing really. Go somewhere, see mobs, maybe a quest giver.

Vanguard has its issues but its strengths should be extolled. Especially for those people who might just say "what the heck" and dive right in.

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

This game is essentially on life support being operated by a skeleton crew.  If there is something to point to the oposite of that it would be refreshing news, but things are what they are. 

Well, I think that is true to a certain extent. Life support seems a bit negative but it's not completely wrong either.

My sense is that the game is there for those who want it and it will receive some attention in order for it to remain playable, but it won't really grow like some of the current, more popular games. Anyone who plays it should be aware of it.

As I've stated, I play it precisely because of what it is, not what it isn't.

THis is the best April Fool's joke so far today! 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by syllvenwood

VSoH is unfortunatly not a game for people with the attention span of a gnat and expecting everything to be handed to them on a platter, oohh darn thats a good portion of the modern mmo community and pvp players, good thing they hate it. Means only good players are in the game, i do look forward to coming back even more!

 

People play computer games for entertainment. Vanguard just isnt entertaining to a lot of people. Many people just dont think its fun to play. If it makes you feel superior by looking down on the majority of the gaming community and deluding yourself into thinking they are all stupid for not playing Vanguard then go ahead. What ever works for you.

 

It feels like you are being superior and essentially dissing something that actually might be fun for some? Granted, the attention span comment did seem harsh but the spirit of the statement is that one really does have to have an attention span that appreciate a more, shall we say, "glacial" game.

You indicate that the game just isn't entertaining to a lot of people. I can buy that. But why is the converse not considered where Vanguard might be entertaining for some? As far as the world goes, I'm paying a monthly subscription precisely because it is a huge world. I'm tired of small worlds where everything seems orchestrated to easy for the players. I'm tired of game companies like Turbine making things easier when I don't want them to be.

Sorvath, if you really read syllvenwoods reply it is nothing more than devaluing anyone that doesn't play VG as inferior players in an attempt to make vanguard players look good by comparison. It is entirely baseless and inflamitory.  He/she isn't  infering, but flat out stating that if you don't play vanguard you are most likely some sort of lesser person with all sort of negative aspects in some lame attempt to make vanguard look awesome. 

Neonwire didn't say that it is impossible to enjoy VG or that no one does.  When he says many people don't enjoy the game, it is infered that those that do not fall into the 'many' would fall into the other category.  What did you read that makes him sound like he has a superior attitude in that post?

Facts are many people tried this game and moved on.  The core gameplay really has not changed since release with the exception of performance so that barrier has been removed.  I think neon was correct and not highbrow in this reply.

But anyways alot of people love Vanguard a few more like Vanguard and alot more dont like Vanguard. Next post.

This thread is toilet paper. The OP registered on 3/31/09 and first thing he does is make a VG advert thread? Go piss off SOE worker.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by syllvenwood

VSoH is unfortunatly not a game for people with the attention span of a gnat and expecting everything to be handed to them on a platter, oohh darn thats a good portion of the modern mmo community and pvp players, good thing they hate it. Means only good players are in the game, i do look forward to coming back even more!

 

People play computer games for entertainment. Vanguard just isnt entertaining to a lot of people. Many people just dont think its fun to play. If it makes you feel superior by looking down on the majority of the gaming community and deluding yourself into thinking they are all stupid for not playing Vanguard then go ahead. What ever works for you.

 

It feels like you are being superior and essentially dissing something that actually might be fun for some? Granted, the attention span comment did seem harsh but the spirit of the statement is that one really does have to have an attention span that appreciate a more, shall we say, "glacial" game.

You indicate that the game just isn't entertaining to a lot of people. I can buy that. But why is the converse not considered where Vanguard might be entertaining for some? As far as the world goes, I'm paying a monthly subscription precisely because it is a huge world. I'm tired of small worlds where everything seems orchestrated to easy for the players. I'm tired of game companies like Turbine making things easier when I don't want them to be.

Sorvath, if you really read syllvenwoods reply it is nothing more than devaluing anyone that doesn't play VG as inferior players in an attempt to make vanguard players look good by comparison. It is entirely baseless and inflamitory.  He/she isn't  infering, but flat out stating that if you don't play vanguard you are most likely some sort of lesser person with all sort of negative aspects in some lame attempt to make vanguard look awesome. 

Neonwire didn't say that it is impossible to enjoy VG or that no one does.  When he says many people don't enjoy the game, it is infered that those that do not fall into the 'many' would fall into the other category.  What did you read that makes him sound like he has a superior attitude in that post?

Facts are many people tried this game and moved on.  The core gameplay really has not changed since release with the exception of performance so that barrier has been removed.  I think neon was correct and not highbrow in this reply.

 

Thanks Daffid.

The thing about Vanguard is that I dont actually think its a terrible game. It does have its good points and I can see why some people play it because it does give off the impression of a vast and open gameworld. The problem that myself and many others have with the game is that the price to pay for this "vast and open gameworld" is that it is mostly empty. It feels like an abandoned gameworld that is running on autopilot. All the monsters are there waiting to get attacked and all the npcs are put in place waiting to be clicked on to dish out the relevant blocks of quest text.......so all the required bits are there.......but where is the games soul? The game just doesnt seem very involving at all. Lots of people dont bother with the game because it all feels so dead and lifeless. I would much rather play a game in a small and exciting game world where all the content is carefully hand-crafted to provide an entertaining experience......rather than a vast and empty gameworld where the content appears to have been churned out on mass and slotted into place to tick all the required boxes.

Also with new games coming out every couple of years Vanguard is looking more and more outdated. However I was personally getting really bored of these drab PvE games that lack interesting gameplay and decided to give mmos a miss for a while until something interesting and new came along. I went back to single player games for a bit because although they are PvE games as well the quality and variety of different kinds of gameplay was more interesting and involving. Single player games seem to each offer something different but PvE mmos seem to always offer the same thing to me........but then I gave Chronicles of Spellborn a go and now my interest in mmos has been refreshed. Its still a PvE game (mostly to begin with anyway) but its so different to all the other mmos that it seems worth playing to me. It is also visually stunning and extremely atmospheric. It all comes together and provides a really charismatic and believable gameworld which Vanguard never managed to do. I have no idea how large the gameworld is as its all set in these little individual "shard worlds" but when it comes to games I would choose quality over quantity any day.......and Chronicles of Spellborn certainly scores top marks for quality. It even looks and feels better than AoC and yet also manages to have good gameplay included as well which is rare for an mmo.

I realise that many people really want an mmo where they have a wide selection of races & classes and can wander freely around a vast and open gameworld. Vanguard does actually offer this but unfortunately its only on a superficial level. Its fans are only sticking with it because they dont have anything better to choose from. Thats the main reason I gave the game a go. I would like the same thing, to be able to create an interesting and unique character and explore a vast gameworld that I can interact with and make some kind of difference to. Vanguard looks like it offers this on the surface but then after a while of wandering around it was just really obvious that all Vanguard has really done has spaced everything out a lot and removed the barriers between zones. The zones are still there which can be clearly seen on the map and it still has to load each zone whenever you cross a border. In all other respects its just the same as any other static themepark game......except its production values arent very good.

I really dont see any point in having a big open world to explore if you cant actually do anything in that world that matters anyway. If its going to be a static themepark game then it may as well at least make it fun and entertaining to play. Many Vanguard fans will say that you need to use your imagination and "pretend" that you are doing something interesting (roleplay) but there is only so much you can do when the game doesnt offer you the tools to create your own adventures. Besides I dont really see much point in paying a monthly fee only to have to pretend to be playing a game which doesnt exist. I can do that for free as I've always got good stuff going on in my head. I was having a good laugh in the chat channels while playing Chronicles of Spellborn yesterday actually. I was making silly stuff up and others were going along with it. Fortunately I didnt have to rely on the chat channel and what others would type into it as my main source of entertainment as I had a good game to play as well. If Vanguard was a F2P game then it might be worth wandering around in it occasionally but I certainly dont think its worth paying money for.

I also see lot of daft statements posted by Vanguard fans such as "Vanguard isnt a game for people who want easy-mode" and yet what is exactly difficult about Vanguard? Ok so you you have to wander around aimlessly looking for quests. I dont think thats particularly difficult. I certainly didnt quit Vanguard because I thought it was difficult because I found it to be as straight forward and simple to play as any other PvE mmo. I quit because I found it boring. If people that play Vanguard find it challenging to hold down the W key for long periods of time as they cross vast empty spaces in their search for something to do then thats fine for them I guess. Each to their own.......but its pretty sad that they think they are playing some kind of "hardcore" game because of it when actually they are just doing what any other other PvE themepark player is doing.

Wall of Text hits you for 1150 damage

I just atarted  VG a few weeks ago, and I like it.  I play at 1920x1200 at max settings, and the game looks great! I like PVE, crafting, and the new diplomacy mini-games. I got invited to a nice guild, and have been having fun.

Originally posted by olepi

I just atarted  VG a few weeks ago, and I like it.  I play at 1920x1200 at max settings, and the game looks great! I like PVE, crafting, and the new diplomacy mini-games. I got invited to a nice guild, and have been having fun.

Here is a piece of advice for you to improve the visual look of the game which you might not know about yet. In the chat channel type /setfog 999999 and it removes the pointless fog effect from the game so you can see for miles. Now go into settings and set your view distance to maximum and also set a blur setting (cant remember the name of it now) to about halfway to give a blurred effect to things which are in the distance.

Doing this doesnt have any impact on the performance of the game. It all makes a big difference and I really have no idea why SOE even have the stupid fog setting in the game in the first place. They could easily remove it by having the /setfog 999999 thing activate every time a player logs in.

I play Vanguard for the Dungeons. Best on the market to me. Most people who say they dont like it never have even seen the true strength of the game. The open beautiful world isnt the best thing about Vanguard. The sweetass dungeons are. There are over 30 dungeons for levels 20 and under. The game isnt this or isnt that but the Dungeons? Sweet. Bothers me when people talk so long with so many words about how much they dont like the game and why, yet havent even really played the game. It's ok to have an opinion about a game but at least have an educated one. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by syllvenwood

VSoH is unfortunatly not a game for people with the attention span of a gnat and expecting everything to be handed to them on a platter, oohh darn thats a good portion of the modern mmo community and pvp players, good thing they hate it. Means only good players are in the game, i do look forward to coming back even more!

 

People play computer games for entertainment. Vanguard just isnt entertaining to a lot of people. Many people just dont think its fun to play. If it makes you feel superior by looking down on the majority of the gaming community and deluding yourself into thinking they are all stupid for not playing Vanguard then go ahead. What ever works for you.

 

It feels like you are being superior and essentially dissing something that actually might be fun for some? Granted, the attention span comment did seem harsh but the spirit of the statement is that one really does have to have an attention span that appreciate a more, shall we say, "glacial" game.

You indicate that the game just isn't entertaining to a lot of people. I can buy that. But why is the converse not considered where Vanguard might be entertaining for some? As far as the world goes, I'm paying a monthly subscription precisely because it is a huge world. I'm tired of small worlds where everything seems orchestrated to easy for the players. I'm tired of game companies like Turbine making things easier when I don't want them to be.

Sorvath, if you really read syllvenwoods reply it is nothing more than devaluing anyone that doesn't play VG as inferior players in an attempt to make vanguard players look good by comparison. It is entirely baseless and inflamitory.  He/she isn't  infering, but flat out stating that if you don't play vanguard you are most likely some sort of lesser person with all sort of negative aspects in some lame attempt to make vanguard look awesome. 

Neonwire didn't say that it is impossible to enjoy VG or that no one does.  When he says many people don't enjoy the game, it is infered that those that do not fall into the 'many' would fall into the other category.  What did you read that makes him sound like he has a superior attitude in that post?

Facts are many people tried this game and moved on.  The core gameplay really has not changed since release with the exception of performance so that barrier has been removed.  I think neon was correct and not highbrow in this reply.

 

Gotcha, apologies to Neonwire ; )

I was in the closed beta for Spellborn last year. Different is true. I loved the atmosphere for sure. I dont think their graphics were great but they have great art direction. I also liked that they were trying something different. (Well, at least in the skill deck,though after about lvl 30 the skill deck showed its limitations. Constantly had to rebuild the deck eh..tedious.) Also the quests though there were some good written quests most were just courier quests and kill x number of mobs. Same as any other mmo.minus the auction house that is. Plus everybody just kinda made the same kind of toon.Other than twitched base combat it just seemed the same as any other game. But I only played for about 42 levels so........I was not a fan but kudos to you for liking it Neon. Just wait until you run the Citadel of Ail. That was about my only good time in the beta =/

Originally posted by neonwire

Thanks Daffid.

The thing about Vanguard is that I dont actually think its a terrible game. It does have its good points and I can see why some people play it because it does give off the impression of a vast and open gameworld. The problem that myself and many others have with the game is that the price to pay for this "vast and open gameworld" is that it is mostly empty. It feels like an abandoned gameworld that is running on autopilot. All the monsters are there waiting to get attacked and all the npcs are put in place waiting to be clicked on to dish out the relevant blocks of quest text.......so all the required bits are there.......but where is the games soul? The game just doesnt seem very involving at all. Lots of people dont bother with the game because it all feels so dead and lifeless. I would much rather play a game in a small and exciting game world where all the content is carefully hand-crafted to provide an entertaining experience......rather than a vast and empty gameworld where the content appears to have been churned out on mass and slotted into place to tick all the required boxes.

Also with new games coming out every couple of years Vanguard is looking more and more outdated. However I was personally getting really bored of these drab PvE games that lack interesting gameplay and decided to give mmos a miss for a while until something interesting and new came along. I went back to single player games for a bit because although they are PvE games as well the quality and variety of different kinds of gameplay was more interesting and involving. Single player games seem to each offer something different but PvE mmos seem to always offer the same thing to me........but then I gave Chronicles of Spellborn a go and now my interest in mmos has been refreshed. Its still a PvE game (mostly to begin with anyway) but its so different to all the other mmos that it seems worth playing to me. It is also visually stunning and extremely atmospheric. It all comes together and provides a really charismatic and believable gameworld which Vanguard never managed to do. I have no idea how large the gameworld is as its all set in these little individual "shard worlds" but when it comes to games I would choose quality over quantity any day.......and Chronicles of Spellborn certainly scores top marks for quality. It even looks and feels better than AoC and yet also manages to have good gameplay included as well which is rare for an mmo.

I realise that many people really want an mmo where they have a wide selection of races & classes and can wander freely around a vast and open gameworld. Vanguard does actually offer this but unfortunately its only on a superficial level. Its fans are only sticking with it because they dont have anything better to choose from. Thats the main reason I gave the game a go. I would like the same thing, to be able to create an interesting and unique character and explore a vast gameworld that I can interact with and make some kind of difference to. Vanguard looks like it offers this on the surface but then after a while of wandering around it was just really obvious that all Vanguard has really done has spaced everything out a lot and removed the barriers between zones. The zones are still there which can be clearly seen on the map and it still has to load each zone whenever you cross a border. In all other respects its just the same as any other static themepark game......except its production values arent very good.

I really dont see any point in having a big open world to explore if you cant actually do anything in that world that matters anyway. If its going to be a static themepark game then it may as well at least make it fun and entertaining to play. Many Vanguard fans will say that you need to use your imagination and "pretend" that you are doing something interesting (roleplay) but there is only so much you can do when the game doesnt offer you the tools to create your own adventures. Besides I dont really see much point in paying a monthly fee only to have to pretend to be playing a game which doesnt exist. I can do that for free as I've always got good stuff going on in my head. I was having a good laugh in the chat channels while playing Chronicles of Spellborn yesterday actually. I was making silly stuff up and others were going along with it. Fortunately I didnt have to rely on the chat channel and what others would type into it as my main source of entertainment as I had a good game to play as well. If Vanguard was a F2P game then it might be worth wandering around in it occasionally but I certainly dont think its worth paying money for.

I also see lot of daft statements posted by Vanguard fans such as "Vanguard isnt a game for people who want easy-mode" and yet what is exactly difficult about Vanguard? Ok so you you have to wander around aimlessly looking for quests. I dont think thats particularly difficult. I certainly didnt quit Vanguard because I thought it was difficult because I found it to be as straight forward and simple to play as any other PvE mmo. I quit because I found it boring. If people that play Vanguard find it challenging to hold down the W key for long periods of time as they cross vast empty spaces in their search for something to do then thats fine for them I guess. Each to their own.......but its pretty sad that they think they are playing some kind of "hardcore" game because of it when actually they are just doing what any other other PvE themepark player is doing.

Wall of Text hits you for 1150 damage

As I started to read your post I thought about responding and saying you were wrong.  But after reading it through and thinking I'd have to say you are correct.  Vanguard is an MMO and not fundamentally different from any other MMO.  It is a PvE MMO which some people like and some don't.  That is a matter of preference.  For my I prefer a PvE MMO over PvP.

It is running around in a world talking to static npcs fighting mostly static mobs roaming around in a large world.  At this level it is pretty much the same as every other MMO and most single player games do it better. 

For PvE grouping and raiding are pretty standard with these games and that probably distinguishes them from single player rpg games.

Vanguard isn't a hard game.  I'd say it is a bit more challenging in the eq2 and wow but not really anything huge.  Certainly I'd never call it hardcore of compare it with eq1.

So I agree with you on all those points.  However I would add a couple things that I think are in vg's favor but again this is just opinion and for you it might not matter.

What I find when I play mmo games is that I like variety.  If I don't have variety I get bored and end up quiting.  Even with variety I will eventually get boarded.  I've played VG for like 3 times in the past 2 years.  I've played just about every other game.  What I find is that it takes longer to get bored with vg then most other games.  Reason is that vg is more involved and has more variety.  A log of games are really linear.  go from zone a to zone b to zone c.  camp a to camp b etc.  No variety no options.  vg has more options in this area.  I can level several characters and never really see the same areas.  If I get stuck in one area or bored with one area there are other area's I can choose from.  Another thing it has is harvesting, crafting, and diplomacy.  You can say none or some of these are boring or not interesting but for some people they are.  The represent alternative activities I can do when I log in so I don't only log in and fight mobs.  I can expore and do a lot of other activities.  Now with fishing I can also do that activity which is kinda neat.

Will there be other games that are better sure there will.  I have not played spellborn but what I have read about it and seen on it kinda turned me off on it.  I have not been following it too closely but generally I jump around a lot and try any games that come out.  I'll be heading over to that forum right after I post this to see what is going on.

What concerns me today is that there are no good games coming out soon.  Well what is a good game?  ha that varies from person to person but for me it is a fantasy game that focuses on pve and doesn't do microtransactions or cash shops.  I want a game with a large non linear world with a large variety of activities.  I want good group orientation but not exclusive and I want end game raiding that isn't too huge or time consuming as to exclude people that don't live in the game.  I'm not too concerned about the recent RMT stuff SoE announced for vg as I don't believe it will have any impact on the game.  I am concerned about the station cash thing in eq2 more but so far it is just apperance items, fun items, and a few xp potions.  Nothing that I see that really makes much difference in the game.  However if SoE starts selling items and competing with drops and in game markets then I'd become very concerned.  They are walking a fine line.