Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by bongo123

no one does MMO’s as good as Blizz

I would go one step further and say no one does PC games as well as Blizzard

 

Diablo2 bar none - is still the best selling action RPG available

other games were similar like  Titans Quest or Dungeon Siege, but neither ever came close in popularity

 

then theres Warcraft and Starcraft -- RTS games that havent seen any competition for sales

some RTS games may be better but not for sales

 

Personally, I had no interest in RTS games, until I tried Warcraft 2

any bioware rpg is better than diablo.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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"Why has no game managed to compete with WoW as of yet?"

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How can you compete with something that you either:

 

 

 

(A) Try to emulate to a great degree, constantly forcing comparisions.

(B) Build it so sloppily that no one wants to stick around and play it.

(C) Niche it out so that only a select few actually want to play it.

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Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Vyeth

Hmm... Why has no game managed to compete with WoW as of yet? Because the players will not let them compete..

 

thats exactly the reason, everytime a new mmo comes out wow fanatics rip it to pieces, so that it cannot compete with their baby. personally i think warhammer online is a much better game than wow and with time it will prove so. warhammer with 4 years of content behind it will be better than present day wow.

Just how many copies of warhammer sold?  It isn't like people shouted mean things from the sidelines and ruined the game.  The people complaining about warhammer were the people that tried it.  If the game was so great then more people would have stayed, but they voted with their wallets.

Even mythic has acknowledged the short commings of the game, which in the end put it right in the position it is in.  Not some fanbase of another game.  Blizzard has its share of fans, but there are a lot of people looking for a new game.  The only reason there has not been another massive game is that companies are not doing something right.  That is pretty much the big question in this thread.

Originally posted by ronan32

any bioware rpg is better than diablo.

Diablo is an action RPG

Blizzard has never made a regular RPG

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by ronan32

any bioware rpg is better than diablo.

Diablo is an action RPG

Blizzard has never made a regular RPG

Diablo 2 was my favorite stress relief game, basically just mindless play. I can't wait for Diablo 3. Say what you want about WoW or whatever but Blizzard makes quality games.

I can't remember which of the people working on WoW said it.  I believe it's the reason WoW is such a success.  Might not be word for word, but it was something like this.   "We aren't trying to create something revolutionary.  We are just trying to create something fun, that takes place in the Warcraft Universe."  Like a few people have said in the thread already.  The idea that advertising was respondible for WoW's success is laughable.   An advertisement might get your foot in the door, but no one is going to stick around if it isn't at least mildly fun.

Originally posted by Roin

I can't remember which of the people working on WoW said it.  I believe it's the reason WoW is such a success.  Might not be word for word, but it was something like this.   "We aren't trying to create something revolutionary.  We are just trying to create something fun, that takes place in the Warcraft Universe."  Like a few people have said in the thread already.  The idea that advertising was respondible for WoW's success is laughable.   An advertisement might get your foot in the door, but no one is going to stick around if it isn't at least mildly fun.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Without the "foot in the door", exactly how do you get the ones that will stick around? Word of mouth? I really don't think so.

There is a reason that World of Warcraft gained nearly 5 million "subscriptions" (I say subscriptions rather loosely) in 2005.

And it isn't just beacause it is a good game. It happened mainly because of the massive marketing campaign (advertising) that Blizzard had/has in the Asian demographic.

Don't get me wrong, I've played, and WoW does what it does, and does it well. But to think that it has ~11 million subscribers because it is a good game isn't being very realistic.

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by Roin

I can't remember which of the people working on WoW said it.  I believe it's the reason WoW is such a success.  Might not be word for word, but it was something like this.   "We aren't trying to create something revolutionary.  We are just trying to create something fun, that takes place in the Warcraft Universe."  Like a few people have said in the thread already.  The idea that advertising was respondible for WoW's success is laughable.   An advertisement might get your foot in the door, but no one is going to stick around if it isn't at least mildly fun.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Without the "foot in the door", exactly how do you get the ones that will stick around? Word of mouth? I really don't think so.

 

There is a reason that World of Warcraft gained nearly 5 million "subscriptions" (I say subscriptions rather loosely) in 2005.

And it isn't just beacause it is a good game. It happened mainly because of the massive marketing campaign (advertising) that Blizzard had/has in the Asian demographic.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've played, and WoW does what it does, and does it well. But to think that it has ~11 million subscribers because it is a good game isn't being very realistic.

How many other games have done what they do well at release prior to wow.  Think about that for a moment before you pin everything on advertising. 

If they key to riches for an mmo was advertising we would have seen games with huge populations already, but as several high budget games have proven, that is not the case.

There was something fundamentally different about warcrafts condition at release that set it apart from the crowd. If it was just a mediocre game then people would have left or migrated to other titles, which they have not. 

At some point the success of a game boils down to the gameplay.

The reason none can compete is not because of WoW but Blizzard,  and they know exactly what to do and to make good games. Just check how much every game they made have given them people are still using Warcraft 3 for a custom mods.

 I think it's because of the number of subs, there is a high chance, compared to other games that some of your friends play it or people you know, and stuff like that makes a game way better and you stick around more

its a number of reason . wow is actually quite a lot of fun to play . its the perfect first mmo for a new player because it is quite easy to pick up . it really is like a large virtual chat room at times . the community factor is very important to wows success . some people i know stay because they have friends there . personally i dont play it every month but when i return the same old faces are in the guilds i m in . i do play warhammer as well some months but i dont find there to be the same community feel in it . i think it due to a lack of  absorbing pve . marketing is always important of course but if you dont have a strong product no amount of advertising will pursuade people to invest time and money in it . the other games i ve played have either seamed to lack something or have been released way too early . for instance lord of the rings online is ok as a pve roll playing game but its a little dull , dungeons and dragons on line is little more than a dungeon hack , vanguard was released way too early , eve is good but its not easy to break into its community .

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by Roin

I can't remember which of the people working on WoW said it.  I believe it's the reason WoW is such a success.  Might not be word for word, but it was something like this.   "We aren't trying to create something revolutionary.  We are just trying to create something fun, that takes place in the Warcraft Universe."  Like a few people have said in the thread already.  The idea that advertising was respondible for WoW's success is laughable.   An advertisement might get your foot in the door, but no one is going to stick around if it isn't at least mildly fun.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Without the "foot in the door", exactly how do you get the ones that will stick around? Word of mouth? I really don't think so.

 

There is a reason that World of Warcraft gained nearly 5 million "subscriptions" (I say subscriptions rather loosely) in 2005.

And it isn't just beacause it is a good game. It happened mainly because of the massive marketing campaign (advertising) that Blizzard had/has in the Asian demographic.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've played, and WoW does what it does, and does it well. But to think that it has ~11 million subscribers because it is a good game isn't being very realistic.

 

How many other games have done what they do well at release prior to wow.  Think about that for a moment before you pin everything on advertising. 

If they key to riches for an mmo was advertising we would have seen games with huge populations already, but as several high budget games have proven, that is not the case.

 

There was something fundamentally different about warcrafts condition at release that set it apart from the crowd. If it was just a mediocre game then people would have left or migrated to other titles, which they have not. 

At some point the success of a game boils down to the gameplay.

 

I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. The success of WoW has to do with a number of factors, but I feel that marketing was the number one catalyst. I also feel that because the internet was really coming into it's own around the time of release, didn't hurt things one bit.

But to think that WoW has had the success it has had, just because it is a good game, is a little far fetched.

Does any person really believe that WoW went from 750,000 subs to 5.5 million subs in 2005 was because it was just that good?

I'll state it once again. WoW does what it does, very well. But to think that it has reached the number of "subscriptions" that it has, because of the gameplay, is being just a little bit silly and naive.

Originally posted by Respit

Does any person really believe that WoW went from 750,000 subs to 5.5 million subs in 2005 was because it was just that good?

I'll bite -- for contrast

I dont know about marketing but I do know that WOW had significant regional launches in 2005

November 2004 - WOW launches in North America

selling over 350k in the 1st week and is sold out at many retailers

pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft/569888p1.html

February 2005 - WOW launches in Europe

selling over 380k in the 1st week

www.mobygames.com/game/windows/world-of-warcraft/adblurbs

By March 18,2005  Blizzard claimed 1.5 million subs

www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200503/N05.0318.1018.13592.htm

June 2005 - WOW launches in China

gaining 1.5million  (beyond the existing growth) to a total of 3.5 million

www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/chinese-success-pushes-world-of-warcraft-past-35-million-users

December 2005, WOW claims 5 million

www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200512/N05.1219.1215.41387.htm

Most recently, the game was launched in the regions of Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong on November 8, 2005.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Respit

Does any person really believe that WoW went from 750,000 subs to 5.5 million subs in 2005 was because it was just that good?

I'll bite -- for contrast

I dont know about marketing but I do know that WOW had significant regional launches in 2005

 

November 2004 - WOW launches in North America

selling over 350k in the 1st week and is sold out at many retailers

pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft/569888p1.html

 

February 2005 - WOW launches in Europe

selling over 380k in the 1st week

www.mobygames.com/game/windows/world-of-warcraft/adblurbs

 

By March 18,2005  Blizzard claimed 1.5 million subs

www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200503/N05.0318.1018.13592.htm

 

June 2005 - WOW launches in China

gaining 1.5million  (beyond the existing growth) to a total of 3.5 million

www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/chinese-success-pushes-world-of-warcraft-past-35-million-users

 

December 2005, WOW claims 5 million

www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200512/N05.1219.1215.41387.htm

Most recently, the game was launched in the regions of Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong on November 8, 2005.

 

Thanks for the links, although I am not denouncing the amount of subscriptions. Actually, I'm not denouncing anything.

The OP asked why no other game has been able to compete. There have been numerous opinions on the reason.

Blizzard had a pretty unique opportunity in 2004, and a number of factors were involved in the success of WoW.

I just happen to feel that Blizzards marketing approach was the deciding factor in WoW's growth. From making sure the specifications were very friendly, to having so many boxes out that you couldn't ignore the game if you wanted to, made the game available to anyone that even had the slightest interest.

Like I stated, there is a host of reasons as to the why.

Others have said luck. I say the planets aligned and Blizzard seen it coming.

 No game has managed to compete with WoW because no other game can run on a Lite-Brite.

Looks like you forgot about Runescape (i.e. Runeshit, ruindscape, ruindshit)

IT was a good game till they took out the wild.. then everything else that made it a good game..

Sure, its nowhere close to WoW, but it does give competition for wow for giving kids there first mmo.

Honestly the main reason i stuck with WoW for a long time, was because it ran the smoothest. I hate how all mmos nowadays are trying to be uber realistic  in their design. It just doesn't look good. They should develop a style that fits the game they are creating, and I think MMOs would be much more successfull if you think about it. Instead developers are going for the uber realism not taking into account that it will cause the game to glitch and be clunky ect. That's the biggest problem in my opinion.

How come no one has managed to compete with ebay?

The most popular of a service that is dependent on popularity with be almost imposable to compete with.

Let's say your favorite MMO in the world just came out, and only 2k people play on one lonely server. How many of you would play it?

TBH the only reason i kept playing was to compete and play with my friends. We quit now and do not miss it one but tho. It was funny, I used to get so mad when people would talk shit about WoW but now i'd rather casterate nyself than play that game again.

Originally posted by Respit 

I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. The success of WoW has to do with a number of factors, but I feel that marketing was the number one catalyst. I also feel that because the internet was really coming into it's own around the time of release, didn't hurt things one bit.

 

But to think that WoW has had the success it has had, just because it is a good game, is a little far fetched.

 

Does any person really believe that WoW went from 750,000 subs to 5.5 million subs in 2005 was because it was just that good?

 

I'll state it once again. WoW does what it does, very well. But to think that it has reached the number of "subscriptions" that it has, because of the gameplay, is being just a little bit silly and naive.

I agree with you that there are a number of factors for wows success and what you point out is a big part of that.

I am of the opinion that the gameplay was the biggest asset.  Marketing will only get so many people to try the game.  It won't make them continue to play and also solicite their friends to join them.  Just the way people talked about the game when it was released.  Polished was the new buzz word.  It was just that different from other mmos.

It also does not explain how wow stole such large percentages from the current (at the time) mmos.  All of them saw a decrease as people migrated to wow in masses.  That is where the gameplay trumps any sort of marketing.  Word of mouth.

What I guess I am not understanding is what blizzard did that was different than any other mmo.  They advertising was no more than most games typically did.  Some magazine/web spots, some store ads, web articles, etc.  Retailers control how many copies of a product the buy and display (with some exceptions).  If a product sells out in its first week they are certain to stock more and in high traffic areas.

To me it seems people work so hard to find excuses for the success of wow over other games and most of those excuses can be pointed to in other mmo releases.  Not you specifically.  Low system specs, large fan base, marketing, timing, appeals to certain demographics, etc.  It has really all been done to one extent or another by various games.  The only real difference is that wow was able to capitalize on all of those perks and keep momentum rolling.  

I actually think that we are in a very similar timeframe right now and have been for a while.   All it is going to take is for another company to follow the example laid out and a fresh concept and I suspect there will be two big gorillas in the room for people to beat on.

There are alot of reason why so WoW is so successful, but the main reason why so many game can't compete with wow is the specification and that fact that they have so many more feature that are supersior to the competitor. 

Vanguard got great pve, great, crafting system, and a pretty nifty diplomacy system.  However, there pvp is horrible, the non instance world is not really seamless.  Instead of having a huge continent like wow and instance dungend, they have chunks that you have to spend 5 seconds or so so load every time you cross one.  To make matter worse, you can't shoot the npc that are literally right next to you but on a different chunk.  Graphic look pretty nice, but the animation is horrible.

That is just a short list for vanguard, but I can list just as many good and bad point on so many other mmo out on the market right now and every time I do so, WoW will alway come out ahead of the competitor in term features.  Combine that with the system requirement for wow where my friend who have a horrbile computer that can't run half-life 2 on more than 5fps can run wow relatively smooth.  So the main reason why there are no game that can compete with out is simple, WoW have a much much much greater potential customer base than any existing mmo currently.

Dark fall be teh awesome!!! 

<Mod Edit>

So, I guess you've stopped playing WoW just recently.

Originally posted by SonofSeth

<Mod Edit>

 

 So, I guess you've stopped playing WoW just recently.

He probably quit in the free month because it was too difficult for him.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Rabidaskal

And to some previous posters who said that Blizzard are #1 because they have unlimited funds to do anything they want, well that is true now, but it certainly wasn't when they launched. 

Blizzards mmo had the most expensive budget for its time around 40 million

 

EQ2's budget was smaller than that  - not that it's any excuse

This might have been nothing more than Smedly puffing his chest up during the release hype, but he claims to have had the bigget budget in an interview about eq2 beating wow to market.  Either way I don't think the budgets were that far apart.  I recall, but can't find the link, were soe claimed to start eq2 with a budget of 30 million just based on the success of eq.  That was when brad mcquaid was still with soe.

"We've invested heavily on development of the game to ensure that EverQuest II has the highest production values of any online game produced to date. We want to deliver a game to our players that will provide an experience like nothing they've ever seen."-Smedley

www.gamevortex.com/gamevortex/news.php/152/everquest-ii-ready-for-shipping-pc.html

That article is also a good read for anyone who thinks eq2 was aimed at a niche market or just hardcore players.