It is, and forever will be, supported by the erroneous, "Because we can, we should, and we will."

If the game is set up that way, then yes. If it's faction vs faction then they are the enemy regardles of the lvl. You just got to understand and come to terms with the fact that you are going to get ganked and just roll with it.

There are ways to limit the amount that you get ganked, and if making max lvl is not a grind then that will make it less painful also.

Originally posted by Capernicus

Ganking is cool if it's against same levels or maybe higher ones, but marching round what is more often or not a starting zone and slaughtering newbies is a. Cowardly b. Boring and c. Pointless. Anyone who feels there is justification in hyperthetically ruining a new players game experience, purely for the sake of it should cast their minds way way back to when they started the game and consider whether they would apreciate such mean spirited behaviour levied at themselves.

And in the end the funny part of hte gankers will complain about low pop, while they seem unaware they ruined allot of players first experiance by being anti-social, that is when ganking is used by a higher lvl to beat a lowby or new entery player.
 

Ganking in the form of terrortory control or equal lvl'd fights are what can make a MMORPG have depth, but unfortunaly many I have seen into this gank form are far from social people, regardless which game.

It kinda depends on the situation and your character. A good character should only gank someone with a extremly good reason. An evil one is more likely to do it but many evil characters actually have moral codex forbidding them from that too, like Black knights.

So from an RP point of view it can be ok, like witchhunters ganking a witch... Or not like a band of knight ganking a single knight from another orden.

Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they follow rules like chivalry (seen Ivanhoe?). And good people can gank with good reasons like killing the murderers that burnt down a village.

I would actually welcome an "Bioware" kind of aligment slider that changes your aligment after your actions, like we seen in "Neverwinter nights" and KOTOR. You could make it quite advanced and make characters with good (or lawful evil) aligment to act like barbarians.

Of course would a Palladin that start to turn evil lose some of his abilitys and be able to either redeem himself or turn truly evil (Deathknight, blackguard, whatever you want to call him).

Ganking (for me this means: killing someone who has no chance of defending himself) needs to not only be permitted but there should be a neon sign outside the server login door saying: 

BEWARE! PLAYERS ON THIS SERVER WILL HARASS, KILL AND LOOT YOU FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN YOUR MERE EXISTANCE!

Getting ganked is generally not fun for the victim. And in my experience it's mostly for that reason that 'gankers' kill them. It's to piss people off, to make their lives miserable and destroy their fun.  Not some made up RP garbage. Not saying there aren't people who manage to put this in a good story, like the UO poster above, but mostly, I find gankers to be players of the nastier variety - personality wise.

Gankers are  mostly a-holes.  They ruined the day for many unwary players, and they flood and spam humiliating words in game just to make a fuss out of their pathetic behaviour.  Sexual and racial abusing spams, or nonsense talk with a strong effort to insult.

They have a short moment of glory in new games where some curious newcomer  log in to take a look.  Soon the new players are gone and the gankers will have to moan about a dead game before they leave.  Until the next such game, these gankers will have to make do with meaningless self-praises (sometimes creating multiple accounts to do so) or mutual praises on forums, or dis other ppl using empty terms like carebear, hardcore and the like.  Yes they are really pathetic ppl.  They will do anything to gain some attention and fill a failing ego.

They hardly affect me at all.  I avoid games gankers play and are allowed by game design to misbehave.  I do not feel sad b/c they try to call me a carebear.  Why should I worry if a dog along the pavement bark at me b/c he does not like me?  I have enuf games to choose from, and enuf alternate ways to kill the few hours off work.  Why should I waste time dealing with another a-hole in an online game?  I have enuf encounters with a-holes at work.

I found this new technique in WotLK that is a solution for the future. Blizzard did it again ?

In WotLK on a PVE server your PvP jumps on only if you accept (daily) open world PvP quests and it STAYS on just as long as you didn't turn in the (PVE themed) quest. (and a "pvp on" buff stays 5 minutes).

So you can ALL level without being ganked, but as soon as you accept these open world PvP quests with a PVE theme your neutral state jumps on PvP.

No need to design "pvp isles" like in War or "complete open PvP" or the dreadful "chicken" mechanic.

 ---> So  a new technique for future MMORPG's. It is little things like these that make the difference.

It shows a very good mechanic for just pure PvP fun on a .... PVE server. And it works as in about 20% of the time you're attacked because of the general zone warning system (zone X is under attack).

But hey, it is Blizzard again, so people will not accept while it is in fact a VERY good mechanic and a nice cure against ganking.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

I found this new technique in WotLK that is a solution for the future. Blizzard did it again ?

In WotLK on a PVE server your PvP jumps on only if you accept (daily) open world PvP quests and it STAYS on just as long as you didn't turn in the (PVE themed) quest. (and a "pvp on" buff stays 5 minutes).

So you can ALL level without being ganked, but as soon as you accept these open world PvP quests with a PVE theme your neutral state jumps on PvP.

No need to design "pvp isles" like in War or "complete open PvP" or the dreadful "chicken" mechanic.

 ---> So  a new technique for future MMORPG's. It is little things like these that make the difference.

It shows a very good mechanic for just pure PvP fun on a .... PVE server. And it works as in about 20% of the time you're attacked because of the general zone warning system (zone X is under attack).

But hey, it is Blizzard again, so people will not accept while it is in fact a VERY good mechanic.

 

 

Yeah in as much as I like WoW, I have reservations about your argument.  The ability to toggle PVP on and off in a PVE server is not new.  In WoW you can just toggle on PVP when you want, even before max lvl.  In SWG, ppl can do PVE without turning on empire vs rebel pvp, and then step in to attack the other side anytime if they want and be flagged.

The key is, with designs like PVE servers, gankers have no free hand, they can only gank those flagging themselves, or so careless as to stay flagged in unsafe zones.  In ffa pvp games, the gankers were given a total free hand by the game design, and hence not my choice for games.

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Yeah in as much as I like WoW, I have reservations about your argument.  The ability to toggle PVP on and off in a PVE server is not new.  In WoW you can just toggle on PVP when you want, even before max lvl.  In SWG, ppl can do PVE without turning on empire vs rebel pvp, and then step in to attack the other side anytime if they want and be flagged.

The key is, with designs like PVE servers, gankers have no free hand, they can only gank those flagging themselves, or so careless as to stay flagged in unsafe zones.  In ffa pvp games, the gankers were given a total free hand by the game design, and hence not my choice for games.

Yes, but this time to do the PVE quest (kill mobs or fetch something), your PvP turns on automatically.

This eliminates the need to have "zones" or "chicken mechanics".

Also these quests are right next to interesting grinding grounds (for food, mining etc) and the buff stays on for 5 minutes OR until you turn in the quest. Of course most of these open world PvP DAILY quest have interesting reputation awards also.

The fact that PvP is turned on automatically in accepting a daily world pve quest is new to Wow and it makes for a very nice twist to level up with a certain danger without the dreadful "ganking" all the time.

They are spread out throughout the continent (a few dozens of them) so no concentration AND - of course - deliberately mixed up with the normal PVE quests (which is good for a fun "surprise").

Originally posted by jsw40

I've played plenty of open-pvp MMOs, and I have never been into the ganking scene.

I don't think I've ever once randomly attacked newbies unless I was raiding a village and they were in my way or a member of the opposite faction was taking my spawns or annoying me in some way. I've NEVER gone out 'just to kill'. I'm actually usually the high-levelled guy that hides around in newbie areas of my own faction and ganks gankers.

I'm not a carebear, and I'm not friendly to opposing factions. I will kill at the drop of the dime if I have a reason, but I just feel like too much of a dick killing newbies that are trying to level up or complete a quest and are keeping to themselves.

That's for lower-levelled characters, though. A friend and I used to randomly gank higher-level characters when we played Vanilla WoW back in the day. We were both Gnomish Engineers with Death Rays, and we would pop out of sneak (both Rogues) and zap some level 50-60 simultaneously. They were always one hit kills if they weren't Warriors. I wish I could've seen the anger of a level 50-60, epicced Warlock getting blown to smitherines in seconds by two level 27 Rogues.

I think this sums it up for me nicely.  I just find it too hard to kill noobs because I know I am ruining someones experience in a new zone and may put off players who just joined the game.  However if it means a bunch of us go out with low level characters and try tackling players 30+ levels higher than us then that may be acceptable but once again I wouldnt sit around spawn points.  I am hoping that a band of players can get a reputation so that it attracts a crowd and it turns into a hunt or be hunted scenario. 

I like the idea of one poster saying that he would let everyone know he was in the area.  Personally if done right becoming a professional murderer in a game can make life exciting for those looking to hunt the bad guys.  Lots of good thoughts here...

Originally posted by Orthedos

Gankers are  mostly a-holes.  They ruined the day for many unwary players, and they flood and spam humiliating words in game just to make a fuss out of their pathetic behaviour.  Sexual and racial abusing spams, or nonsense talk with a strong effort to insult.

They have a short moment of glory in new games where some curious newcomer  log in to take a look.  Soon the new players are gone and the gankers will have to moan about a dead game before they leave.  Until the next such game, these gankers will have to make do with meaningless self-praises (sometimes creating multiple accounts to do so) or mutual praises on forums, or dis other ppl using empty terms like carebear, hardcore and the like.  Yes they are really pathetic ppl.  They will do anything to gain some attention and fill a failing ego.

They hardly affect me at all.  I avoid games gankers play and are allowed by game design to misbehave.  I do not feel sad b/c they try to call me a carebear.  Why should I worry if a dog along the pavement bark at me b/c he does not like me?  I have enuf games to choose from, and enuf alternate ways to kill the few hours off work.  Why should I waste time dealing with another a-hole in an online game?  I have enuf encounters with a-holes at work.

Oh man this is a classic post, so funny....I know how you feel

Originally posted by orionite

Ganking (for me this means: killing someone who has no chance of defending himself) needs to not only be permitted but there should be a neon sign outside the server login door saying: 

BEWARE! PLAYERS ON THIS SERVER WILL HARASS, KILL AND LOOT YOU FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN YOUR MERE EXISTANCE!

Getting ganked is generally not fun for the victim. And in my experience it's mostly for that reason that 'gankers' kill them. It's to piss people off, to make their lives miserable and destroy their fun.  Not some made up RP garbage. Not saying there aren't people who manage to put this in a good story, like the UO poster above, but mostly, I find gankers to be players of the nastier variety - personality wise.

 

Truth in advertising FTW.

If you allow ganking in your game/server then you will attract the dregs of the gamer community to them.  It simply cannot be helped.  As such the developers have a moral obligation to warn people ahead of time what kind of game experience they should expect.  I hate devs who try to sell you a game by saying that the PvP in it will not affect the rest of your game experience when that is obviously not true.

There's a good reason why 'gankers' rhymes with 'wankers'.

Isn't the entire mindset of PvP to pretty much dislike the other players?  I mean, when you log on, your single objective is that if they have 2 hours to play, to make sure they actually actively play for the least possible fraction of that 2 hours.  I'm just lost as to where ganking or anything else can have a "negative" connotation when the entirety of PvP is a negative atmosphere.

Just my thoughts.  I've played PvP in quite a few games and I only ever encounter spiteful people, ganking or not.

A lot of these responses don't seem to take into consideration games with resource/territory control. Many  seem to be based on the assumption that the person being attacked is a low level player. They also seem to dismiss the RP aspect of it all.

I don't think this is a very good question.

We are talking about games here. You do whatever you damn please and no one can stop you anyway.

And there are plenty of games with restricted PvP and no one needs to be subjected to ganging. He/she can simply play another game (or on a PvE server, many games offer that).

Ganking can and always has been justified by the ganker.  It's just the nature of the beast.  It an be in an rp context or not, it doesn't really matter.  For many mmorpgs allow for the experimentation in behaviors that are unacceptable in any sort of a socialized and/or civilized context.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

A lot of these responses don't seem to take into consideration games with resource/territory control. Many  seem to be based on the assumption that the person being attacked is a low level player. They also seem to dismiss the RP aspect of it all.

 

Generally if you are fighting over resources/territory then most would not consider that 'ganking'.  If the defeated player was not strong/skilled enough to hold onto the resource then they really should not have tried to control it in the first place.  

Ganking generally refers to attacking someone who has no/little chance of defending and who is not actually hurting the ganker.  This makes a low level character the usual target of a gank.

As far as RP goes, I have learned from my Pen & Pater RPG days that people will use RP to justify the most idiotic behaviour.   It is very shallow RP and gets tedious and anoying very fast for others.  Also often enough the gankers who say they are RPing are just using that as an excuse (similar to "I buy Playboy for the articles").

---

Originally posted by severius 
For many mmorpgs allow for the experimentation in behaviors that are unacceptable in any sort of a socialized and/or civilized context.

---

In a war, Side A has a small group of new troops with low defensive capability carry supplies to their front line troops. Side B fires shells from their tanks at the new troops to stop the supplies from going there.

Now, your reaction may be that these are games and that is war, however you are dismissing the fact that some of these MMOs are war games, not dueling arenas.

In PotBS, do you let the low level ships/players through the area you are trying to control? If so, won't the enemy just start using low level ships/players to move their goods with impunity?

In EVE Online, do you let the one week player in a frigate patrol your area, or do you blow his ship to pieces? If you let them travel peacefully though, your enemy now knows a way to safely do recon.

In games where every resources is a tool of war and territory control is at stake, "Not Blue, Shoot It" is sound policy.  

---

Originally posted by Torik
Generally if you are fighting over resources/territory then most would not consider that 'ganking'. If the defeated player was not strong/skilled enough to hold onto the resource then they really should not have tried to control it in the first place.

 

Ganking generally refers to attacking someone who has no/little chance of defending and who is not actually hurting the ganker. This makes a low level character the usual target of a gank.

---

The second line quoted above contradicts the first, and you have also added an odd conditional: "and who is not actually hurting the ganker." That would mean that no one was ever ganked at UO's crossroads, DAoC's emain or WOW's battlegrounds. It's a convenient conditional, though! Of course the little guy isn't going to start the fight. :)

In some MMOs, making sure you have the most sound victory condition possible before going into war is considered a logical policy. I agree completely that in games like WOW and other MMOs where there is no actual reason or gain to the attack that it serves little purpose but to ruin another player's fun. However, all MMOs are not designed that way. In MMOs built around resource and territory control,  to write off excessive force and overwhelming odds as anti-social or uncivilized is to show a lack of understanding of how the game is played.

Ganking is entirely justifiable if you play a game that allows it.

Framing it in RP makes it much more palatable, i.e. limiting it to certain areas .. "If you go to <insert place here> then you run the risk of being ganked" .. old-school UO gamers may remember a guild called GUL (Guardians of the Undead Lords) who were an active RP-PK guild.

I think that from a roleplay perspective, depending on the lore, it is normal to kill the enemy regarless of their "level". 

If I was in WWII I wouldnt pass up killing a nazi because he's a lower rank then me.....

What I actually have a problem with is FFA PvP games.... where it is apparently normal to be a mass murderer.  I mean.... who goes around attacking and killing every single person they meet?

My favorite PvP model is that used in L2 and Runes of Magic....   if you kill innocents you become a murderer.. and guards attack you.... and others are encouraged to kill you... so you are kindof punished for your crimes.  My 2nd choice is team PvP... where you kill the enemy faction on sight.

I always look at PvP from a roleplay standpoint, even though I'm not really a roleplayer. 

I am going to say no, because by definition to gank is to kill someone unfairly, whatever fair and unfair means to you, so if the kill was ok or fair then people wouldn't apply the word gank to it.  So basically if someone is saying someone was ganked the word itself implies an unjustified kill.

But language aside, I don't think you have to ever justify your actions, except maybe to yourself, but I can't think of any situation where people would not be annoyed by being randomly killed roleplay or not, especially if it is over and over.

 I get ganked; i gank them.

Treat others like you wish to be treated right?

I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play.  So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.

Originally posted by Capernicus

I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play.  So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.

Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?

Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.

The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.