Originally posted by Rekindle

 

What a great game this is going to be for anyone who wants Call of Duty 4 in mmorpg clothes. i'm not saying this to put down Darkfall persay although I do feel a bit ripped off based on what the description of the game says

Dont take me the wrong way, my e-rage has settled and I'm speaking objectively when I say that anyone who decides to choose crafting,specifically harvesting, might as well put a big glow stick on their head wtih a neon t-shirt.  There are plenty of people in the game who dont want to pvp, they want to gank and AV's system has ensured  lots and lots of options for them.

Its not just an issue of staying protected while you mine....although that is logical.  What I call a problem is going to be someone else's definition of a good game:  Crafters who may or may not be newbs gathering resources to get a leg up are target #1 for hordes of equiped players on mounts.  It would be akin to someone level 15 or 20 coming back to the newbie lands to lay waste........because they can....or no police in Eve anywhere outside stations (cool idea for some I realize!)

If you want an EQ  style PvE experience where you can feel like the 1-2 hours a night you get is going somewhere I'm not sure id reccommend this game as of yet. I will not and can not use team speak on a regular basis....I guess that makes me not with the times lol.... 

If you are prepared to say "hey i mined these pixels, and I know theres a 9/10 chance that i'll get ganked and loose them' then man  the risk/ fun factor is there.....but I dont ALWAYS want to be looking over my shoulder when i play.....i find that type of constant emotion all day long is NOT relaxing, it actaully generates more anxiety.

My problem is im not a 20 year old gamer anymore. I got a wife and kids and anywhere from 0-3 hours max per session on average.  I don't need to rule the world but i'm not gonna mine every night to hand it over to a group of ass clowns who happen to be on mounts either.

Had they implemented the murder count system/ alignment flagging system in UO then they would have won  the hearts and minds of the crafters I believe.  Instead, theyve made it clear that the solitary crafter is fodder choice #1 for roaming PK gangs.

Darkfall lacks options for the casual unless said casual isn't worried too much about a sense of progression.

why play Darkfall as a casual? Because I was (am) looking for something that is more hardcore than WoW (by a lot) but not full on open quake  pvp......I dont think that balance has been achived yet.  I still maintain that Darkfall is one of the games with highest potential to succeed but its not there yet imho.

 I personally see sandbox aspects but the irony here is the more  they tried to be sandbox the more players find ways to press a groove into the fabric of game mechanics .....so that part will  take a while to flesh out.   There are lots of mobs that just stand around and let you kill them until they wake up and then you have (had) no chance to begin with hehe. 

If you're into large group or even small group PvP holy crap this game is for you!

If you're into a game where the solitary adventurer is at extremely high risk of getting ganked then this game is for you.

 

If you're an adult mother / father who wants to log on to a game and do a mix of PvE/PvP/crafting for a couple hours, i'm not so sure this game is for you.  Maybe in a couple patches? not sure.

Either way, the community seems to be settling down here a bit and on the DF forums so a lot of what people have to say is accurate, albeit emotional. 

Im  a bit disapointed that the game isnt more then it is but as a software devloper nerd i can only begin to imageine the amount of work that went into making this infrastructure.  My sincere hope is that in the next coming months they patch stuff into the game other than clan fixes that swings the game a bit further towards the middle..

If I have to pick (and based on the current market unfortunately I do) between pure PvE and pure PvP mmorpg I will take the PvE because I'm more of a cerebral thinker than a twitch player (not that any play style is better than the other).

Darkfall has ,however, taught this 33 year old a lot about what games work and dont work for him though.

I will be watching this game like a Hawk but I think i will be letting my sub expire.  But Vanguard PvE is looking mighty sweet right now let me tell ya.

 

You might want to sign up for Fallen Earth then, I am. They have a great system in place for PVE and PVP. Its Faction based PVP. So if you dont join a faction no one can attack you and you can join later on or leave or trade factions during the life of your character. This creates allot of flexibility.

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Cereo 

I don't know about the sandbox. When I was a kid growing up, when I played in the sand, sometimes I did it alone, sometimes I did it with others, and sometimes I just watched others play in it. The point is I could do whatever I wanted in the sand.

 

In DF you have to be in a guild or you cannot enjoy the game really. Sure you'll argue it is "possible", but realistically you need to be a guild and play in large groups or this game is almost unplayable. That, to me, makes is nothing like UO and makes the game seem very specific and not a sandbox. In fact, I think the only difference between a game like WoW and DF is that WoW has tons of polish and content. Since DF doesn't and you have to pretend most of the content, you try to call it a sandbox instead of just an unfinished, unpolished game.

Please explain besides FFA PvP and full loot, how this game is anymore sandbox than WoW? Which those 2 features do not make a game a sandbox at all.

 

I disagree with your description of Darkfall. You can, in fact, play solo if you wish. It is not easy, but it is none-the-less a viable style. Is it harder than playing in a group? Of course, what game isn't. 

You are confusing difficulty or obstacles with lack of freedom. They are not mutually exclusive.

I do not view WOW as a sandbox game. It has a definite game driven progression. FFA PVP is simply part of the rules set, like WOW's pvp server, except you can kill your own faction as well. FFA PVP does not make a sandbox.

A sandbox, in my view, is a game in which the players create the content using tools provided by the game. By that definition, Darkfall is a sandbox.

 

I'm sorry but I *think* that in a sandbox game you *should* be able to solo pretty much *anything*.

Personally I'm a lonewolf ... I LOVE to be able to do things by myself and I require games that offer me that option which is, honestly, most of them.  I haven't had a MMO where you can't solo anything (well barely anyways).

Sure you can join a clan, but sometimes, most of the time I should say, I like to hop in and play NOW, not wait for a raid group to form, wait for people to group with, etc.  I want to join and play.

Sadly, DF doesn't give you that option, I'm sure it's perfectly fun and awesome when you have hours and hours to put on a game but as other said when you have a family or heck a girlfriend putting 4-5 hours a night on a game is kinda ridiculous and after a couple weeks I'd probably have to watch redtube instead of well ... you know.

I played UO, and I don't see how DF can't be soloed.  Although to be honest I think it's obvious how solo play is not going to be easy in a game centered around guild warfare and guild towns.

And I really don't understand if somene thought Darkfall and Vanguard were going to play at all similar?!  They're almost opposite games.

People whining about being ganked are just being short-sighted.  This kind of ganking happened in original UO upon release, and UO had pretty much the same notoriety system in place then as current DF does now (although I'll admit that logic has me assuming that being red in DF means you can't enter towns).  So all of this 'Oh you must not have played UO then' is a bunch of bull really.  It seems the 'UO' people are mistaking post-trammel UO and Darkfall or something?  Or maybe post-stat loss UO and DF.  Real UO (e.g. pre-stat loss) had the same concequences as current DF, correct me if I'm wrong.

So yeah you have to be sneaky with your gathering, and not frequent popular gathering spots.  Just like old UO.  Be ready at all times to high-tail it outta there, and/or call on guild mates to help deal with a PK, just like old UO.  So I'm not really seeing the problem here?  Is there some other issue?

*edit*  I also have to add that old UO (pre-stat loss) PvE was insanely dull.  Again I'm not seeing where DF really is the same or worse.  If anything DF PvE is WAY better than old UO.  If you're comparing modern UO with DF well ... it's apples to oranges (with trammel and item-centric UO in current state).

*edit 2*  You could solo anything in UO, but a team of people in UO would always have the upper hand, as far as ganking you.  Again I don't see the difference between UO and DF.

*edit 3 lol*  I'm 33 years old.  Have a family - 2 boys.  Full time job and working on a .net cert.  I play from 0-3 hours a night.  I disagree with the OPs assessment of DF.

Amusing post, again.

What makes the difference between the UO (even pre-trammel) alignment and Darkfall's is that in UO, you don't do splash damage unless you voluntarly do AOE spells, and therefore the system can't be exploited like it is here. In UO, a PK was really a red guy, not a guy of your own side who decided to be an ass for a while.

You have very short memory if you don't see the huge differences between this game and UO, on almost every aspect. Mob (and specially wildlife population), town population, variety of skills (just compare noob magic in DFO and UO...), variety of tradeskills. Where's taming? Oh, it got ditched during development... replaced with a totally retarded way to get mounts which includes gathering herbs.

Originally posted by ILOVEPVE

Im wondering about one thing here. I have many friends playing WoW right now. They just make new characters all the time. make them max level and best gear, then makes a new toon and starts all over again.

I asked them if they wanted to try DF (on my computer), but they said they didnt like the grind!

So my question is simple: How can you grind in a PvE game, but not in a PvP game? And to be honest, in DF you can do anything from day one. You can join a crew on a ship and sail around the world, you can raid citys and other races. Gank and loot others.

In PvE MMOs you cant. You need to grind first. But thats ok?  Im very pussled about this mentality.

Can someone explain?

 

 

 

I can explain. The grind in PvE is measurable and predictable. Meaning if you grind a few hours then you WILL advance (unless you are utterly incompetent). However the grind in DF type games are not certain. Meaning you can grind for a few hours and then lose everything you have grinded for and possibly more, meaning you just wasted a few hours of grinding and you were worse of than before you started.

That I think is unacceptable for most MMORPG player and hence why games like DF will never, ever attract the main MMORPG crowd. At most I think 1% of MMORPG players will like the harsh enivronment of an Open FFA full loot MMORPG.

is this game a true sandbox? Hell no! Why is that? Because there is no such thing as a true sandbox. And the game is all about pvp to be upset over the fact it lacks pve is really stupid to be frank.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

is this game a true sandbox? Hell no! Why is that? Because there is no such thing as a true sandbox. And the game is all about pvp to be upset over the fact it lacks pve is really stupid to be frank.

Sorry if we only refer to what the devs promised us all so we buy the game.

Go on the official site, read the game features. Over the half aren't even in the game.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Amusing post, again.

What makes the difference between the UO (even pre-trammel) alignment and Darkfall's is that in UO, you don't do splash damage unless you voluntarly do AOE spells, and therefore the system can't be exploited like it is here. In UO, a PK was really a red guy, not a guy of your own side who decided to be an ass for a while.

You have very short memory if you don't see the huge differences between this game and UO, on almost every aspect. Mob (and specially wildlife population), town population, variety of skills (just compare noob magic in DFO and UO...), variety of tradeskills. Where's taming? Oh, it got ditched during development... replaced with a totally retarded way to get mounts which includes gathering herbs.

Those seem like small differences TBH.  On a more general level, DF and original UO are very similar, especially in the soloing department.  If you soloed in UO you got ganked by people, especially if it was a group of people.

Still don't see the big problem.  Also UO's PvE is horrible compared to any PvE game.  PvP games never have had good PvE.

UO - it sucks

SB - it sucks

EVE - it sucks

Good PvE

EQ - awesome pve - its not a pvp game

VG - fairly awesome pve - its not a pvp game

WoW - awesome raiding - its not a pvp game

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Amusing post, again.

What makes the difference between the UO (even pre-trammel) alignment and Darkfall's is that in UO, you don't do splash damage unless you voluntarly do AOE spells, and therefore the system can't be exploited like it is here. In UO, a PK was really a red guy, not a guy of your own side who decided to be an ass for a while.

You have very short memory if you don't see the huge differences between this game and UO, on almost every aspect. Mob (and specially wildlife population), town population, variety of skills (just compare noob magic in DFO and UO...), variety of tradeskills. Where's taming? Oh, it got ditched during development... replaced with a totally retarded way to get mounts which includes gathering herbs.

Perhaps we should talk about these things in a few months. It is a bit disingenious to compare Darkfall at launch with UO. 

You opinion of getting mounts, is your opinion. The system doesn't bother me, that's just how it is in this game.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Yeah, solo play is a viable style in DFO. You must accept that you won't have access to most of the game features though. Nice sandbox game, indeed. sarcasm: off.

Please, stop serving us that crap.

I'm starting to understand where robertb is coming from. He obviously never played neither UO nor AC1, and can't know what a well designed AND BALANCED sandbox MMO where every play style is supported can be.

Once again, your opinion and my experience are not in agreement.

You can, indeed, play darkfall solo, if you wish.

If it is too hard for you, perhaps you should play something else.

Originally posted by Cereo

I said "Sure you'll argue it is "possible"...", guess you missed that part. I never said it wasn't possible, but it is also not viable, a good idea, or nearly as fun that way. A game should be fun however you play it. Do I really need to pull your post history and paste the countless times people have complained about something being too hard or not an option and your answer was "get in a good clan"?

 

And I agree, I am not sure you ever played UO or AC1. If you have not, I admire your ignorance then and glad you are having fun, sadly some of us have seem much better.

I disagree. Soloing is possible and fun. You just have to man-up a bit...

Played UO, but not AC. Darkfall has better core gameplay than UO, imo. We'll see about features, in time...

Originally posted by ILOVEPVE

Im wondering about one thing here. I have many friends playing WoW right now. They just make new characters all the time. make them max level and best gear, then makes a new toon and starts all over again.

I asked them if they wanted to try DF (on my computer), but they said they didnt like the grind!

So my question is simple: How can you grind in a PvE game, but not in a PvP game? And to be honest, in DF you can do anything from day one. You can join a crew on a ship and sail around the world, you can raid citys and other races. Gank and loot others.

In PvE MMOs you cant. You need to grind first. But thats ok?  Im very pussled about this mentality.

Can someone explain?

 

 

 

Some MMO players just like the auto target whack a mole MMO with the disgusted turned based slow combat. You'll find they don't enjoy the FPS genre. Darkfall is a hybrid of old school MMO RPG and the MMOFPS Planetside. I wish Planetside had resources to fight over for control for outfit base construction and weapon construction. If you like RPG's and FPS and liked Planetside you'll like Darkfall.

WoW is turn based combat?

You should revisit what turn based means... WoW is no more turn based than Darkfall.

But of course, bashing WoW is always fun, even with ignorant comments.

i think part of it is understanding that DF plays differently. Last night I just ran around ganking people naked.  That was a fun thing to do last night and it might be fun again....but if running around ganking people is all this game has to offer then its gonna be  hard sell.

UO keeps getting referenced becaues everyone knows this game is the closest next gen we've had to UO.  Well, they obviously didnt want to clone UO but I think they've thrown the baby out with the bath water on some things.

I dont want to send the wrong message.....this game has MASSIVE promise. Right now its Quake III in mmo clothes though, imho.

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

I have LESS time than the OP to play, but I love MMOs.  Been playing them since before at least some of the people on these forums were born, most likely.  I go back to Meridian 59 and have played nearly every MMO release for at least a few levels to see what it was about.

The smartest posts on this thread were those by folks pointing out that no consequence, FFA PVP = fail.  Robert seems to indicate that everything is fine with DF and there are PLENTY of consequences and everyone needs to "man up".  Im suspecting that he is full of BS and that the OP is accurate.  It's just common sense and no one "defending" DF seems to point out HOW the OP is wrong.  WHAT are these "big consequences"?  If there WERE real consequences, why would they have to "man up"? They wouldnt.

The original UO was a broken gank-fest.  I hated it.  This sounds the same.  So the UO comparo is specious.  UO was fixed later, and maybe this will be also, but by then 10 people will be left playing (at most)

I have a LOT of fun playing WoW EVERY day with no drama or emotional angst.  So there is NO reason the OP cant "play an MMO" and sould find "casual games instead of online ones" as your snide comment suggests (I notice lots of the DF defense posters are really snide a-holes - says a lot)

People moan and groan about WoW.  Well it has 10M subs.  DF will have very, very few.  So to the defenders of these weird, extreme, "cater to 1%" playstyles, enjoy the endless treadmill of game after game being over promised, underdelivered, economically not viable and utterly failing.  I guess the "real fun" (outside of naked gank fests) is in hyping and then flame warring on forums.

You can replace DarkFall with "Shadowbane" and the threads would be identical.   For "no holds barred open PVP" to be remotely fun, and not devolve into roaming gangs of naked morons ganking everything in sight (sound familiar?), a LOT of work and dev energy has to be put into the FRAMEWORK of the SOCIETY.  That has really NEVER been done TRULY well outside of EVE.  Given that the feature itself is one that just not all that many PAYING CUSTOMERS give a damn about (as evidenced by the fact that the biggest MMOs are really PVE), it is VERY unlikely that big dev money, brain power, effort, and polish will ever go into producing a genuinely effective PVP world.  As a result, most will continue to look (and fail) a lot like DF.

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

 

I have LESS time than the OP to play, but I love MMOs.  Been playing them since before at least some of the people on these forums were born, most likely.  I go back to Meridian 59 and have played nearly every MMO release for at least a few levels to see what it was about.

The smartest posts on this thread were those by folks pointing out that no consequence, FFA PVP = fail.  Robert seems to indicate that everything is fine with DF and there are PLENTY of consequences and everyone needs to "man up".  Im suspecting that he is full of BS and that the OP is accurate.  It's just common sense and no one "defending" DF seems to point out HOW the OP is wrong.  WHAT are these "big consequences"?  If there WERE real consequences, why would they have to "man up"? They wouldnt.

The original UO was a broken gank-fest.  I hated it.  This sounds the same.  So the UO comparo is specious.  UO was fixed later, and maybe this will be also, but by then 10 people will be left playing (at most)

I have a LOT of fun playing WoW EVERY day with no drama or emotional angst.  So there is NO reason the OP cant "play an MMO" and sould find "casual games instead of online ones" as your snide comment suggests (I notice lots of the DF defense posters are really snide a-holes - says a lot)

People moan and groan about WoW.  Well it has 10M subs.  DF will have very, very few.  So to the defenders of these weird, extreme, "cater to 1%" playstyles, enjoy the endless treadmill of game after game being over promised, underdelivered, economically not viable and utterly failing.  I guess the "real fun" (outside of naked gank fests) is in hyping and then flame warring on forums.

You can replace DarkFall with "Shadowbane" and the threads would be identical.   For "no holds barred open PVP" to be remotely fun, and not devolve into roaming gangs of naked morons ganking everything in sight (sound familiar?), a LOT of work and dev energy has to be put into the FRAMEWORK of the SOCIETY.  That has really NEVER been done TRULY well outside of EVE.  Given that the feature itself is one that just not all that many PAYING CUSTOMERS give a damn about (as evidenced by the fact that the biggest MMOs are really PVE), it is VERY unlikely that big dev money, brain power, effort, and polish will ever go into producing a genuinely effective PVP world.  As a result, most will continue to look (and fail) a lot like DF.

Interesting opinions. Absolutely no relevance to how I personally see the game, but interesting, none-the-less...

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

 

I like WoW.  I didn't like original UO.

This is why you don't like darkfall.  It's like original UO and not like WoW.  Does it surprise anyone that this guy doesn't like it?

The concequence comes when you die and all your gear is looted.  Maybe you don't get that because you like games where you can't be looted, hence no concequence pvp?

I'm not going to call you carebear or anything.  Some people just like PvE games and games with meaningless PvP.  No big deal.  Different strokes for different folks.  But saying a game sucks because it's not like some totally different game, which it was never trying to be like is really just failed logic.  It's like saying OMG this apple sux because it's not like this orange!

Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

 

I like WoW.  I didn't like original UO.

 

This is why you don't like darkfall.  It's like original UO and not like WoW.  Does it surprise anyone that this guy doesn't like it?

The concequence comes when you die and all your gear is looted.  Maybe you don't get that because you like games where you can't be looted, hence no concequence pvp?

I'm not going to call you carebear or anything.  Some people just like PvE games and games with meaningless PvP.  No big deal.  Different strokes for different folks.  But saying a game sucks because it's not like some totally different game, which it was never trying to be like is really just failed logic.  It's like saying OMG this apple sux because it's not like this orange!

When you quote a person's post, please don't edit it in order to support your attempt to discredit them.  Trying reading mlambert890's post again, all of it.  Thank you, mlambert890, excellent post, but I'm afraid few will actually understand it unless they open their eyes.

Originally posted by indiramourn

Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

 

I like WoW.  I didn't like original UO.

 

This is why you don't like darkfall.  It's like original UO and not like WoW.  Does it surprise anyone that this guy doesn't like it?

The concequence comes when you die and all your gear is looted.  Maybe you don't get that because you like games where you can't be looted, hence no concequence pvp?

I'm not going to call you carebear or anything.  Some people just like PvE games and games with meaningless PvP.  No big deal.  Different strokes for different folks.  But saying a game sucks because it's not like some totally different game, which it was never trying to be like is really just failed logic.  It's like saying OMG this apple sux because it's not like this orange!

 

When you quote a person's post, please don't edit it in order to support your attempt to discredit them.  Trying reading mlambert890's post again, all of it.  Thank you, mlambert890, excellent post, but I'm afraid few will actually understand it unless they open their eyes.

I edited it to avoid a wall of text.  If people want to re-read his post, they can scroll up or hit the last page, etc.

The point is, the guy likes WoW and dislikes original UO, because of the ganking.  My point still stands.  Not quoting his wall of text does not change or invalidate my point.

Originally posted by nethervoid

i don't like darkfall.  I like WoW. 

See what happens when people just leave out words and letters in what you said?

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by nethervoid

i don't like darkfall.  I like WoW. 

 

See what happens when people just leave out words and letters in what you said?

LOL  Are you serious?  There's a difference between paraphrasing and taking words out of context.  The guy said he liked wow and did not like original UO.  Are you arguing that he did NOT say those things?

My god, debate the topic.  Trying to wear someone down via semantics is weak.

Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

 

I like WoW.  I didn't like original UO.

 

This is why you don't like darkfall.  It's like original UO and not like WoW.  Does it surprise anyone that this guy doesn't like it?

The concequence comes when you die and all your gear is looted.  Maybe you don't get that because you like games where you can't be looted, hence no concequence pvp?

I'm not going to call you carebear or anything.  Some people just like PvE games and games with meaningless PvP.  No big deal.  Different strokes for different folks.  But saying a game sucks because it's not like some totally different game, which it was never trying to be like is really just failed logic.  It's like saying OMG this apple sux because it's not like this orange!

Oddly enough, it's that same failed logic that players from just about every other MMO, including DF players, use to bash and denigrate the players of other games.

In your post above, you can't even help yourself from being pejorative.  You feign holding back the carebear name-calling, and yet, it's there (imagine if I'd opened this message with "I'm not going to call you a completely useless, clueless, idiotic fanboi or anything.").  Similarly, define "games with meaningless PvP".  Meaningless to who?

It's interesting that you point out bias, yet still show your own.

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Zodan

DF rocks, it's quite demanding though if you take it like that but it can be played casually as well. Sounds like the game you are looking for to play 0 to 3 hours is not an mmo so it would be best to find some casual games instead of the online ones.

 

I like WoW.  I didn't like original UO.

 

This is why you don't like darkfall.  It's like original UO and not like WoW.  Does it surprise anyone that this guy doesn't like it?

The concequence comes when you die and all your gear is looted.  Maybe you don't get that because you like games where you can't be looted, hence no concequence pvp?

I'm not going to call you carebear or anything.  Some people just like PvE games and games with meaningless PvP.  No big deal.  Different strokes for different folks.  But saying a game sucks because it's not like some totally different game, which it was never trying to be like is really just failed logic.  It's like saying OMG this apple sux because it's not like this orange!

Oddly enough, it's that same failed logic that players from just about every other MMO, including DF players, use to bash and denigrate the players of other games.

In your post above, you can't even help yourself from being pejorative.  You feign holding back the carebear name-calling, and yet, it's there (imagine if I'd opened this message with "I'm not going to call you a completely useless, clueless, idiotic fanboi or anything.").  Similarly, define "games with meaningless PvP".  Meaningless to who?

It's interesting that you point out bias, yet still show your own.

I think you fail to see what I'm saying.  Some people like PvE games.  I'm fine with that.  I like PvE games too.  Calling someone a carebear is just a derogatory way of saying 'you like PvE games'.

I'm not biased.  If you read my sig, I've played and liked all of those games, with exception to HZ, which I played for all of 2 weeks.  The game just didn't have anything to do.

Meaningless PvP is PvP in which no matter if you win or lose there is no effect on the overall game.  WoW PvP fits this.  EQ PvP fits this.  EvE does not.  DF does not.  UO does not...well UO is more of a fense rider on this one since you can't destroy player structures.  Meaningless PvP serves no greater purpose other than just the PvP itself.

Originally posted by nethervoid

I think you fail to see what I'm saying.  Some people like PvE games.  I'm fine with that.  I like PvE games too.  Calling someone a carebear is just a derogatory way of saying 'you like PvE games'.

I'm not biased.  If you read my sig, I've played and liked all of those games, with exception to HZ, which I played for all of 2 weeks.  The game just didn't have anything to do.

Meaningless PvP is PvP in which no matter if you win or lose there is no effect on the overall game.  WoW PvP fits this.  EQ PvP fits this.  EvE does not.  DF does not.  UO does not...well UO is more of a fense rider on this one since you can't destroy player structures.  Meaningless PvP serves no greater purpose other than just the PvP itself.

Contrary to what you may think you totally described your beloved DnF in what is highlighted above, and that is why DarknFail will do just that, fail. There is no reason to play other then gank and PvP.  Tthere are oriental games with much better game engines that offer PVP and ganking for free.

I have been playing computer games since the original Adventure game was on a teletype and the only game I have ever played where PVP matters is Eve.