Originally posted by Persephassa

People still willingly pay for this game? *mind boggled* The last time SOE tried to give me a couple months playtime for Vanguard I tried it for a few days and was already bored of the lack of players & things to do.

Couldn't find anything to do?  Really? Have you actually played it?

Everytime I log on I am overwhelmed with the number of options at all levels that I have.  There  is so much to do I get lost in it all.

I wish there were more people on during the evenings I play but I am happy to keep going for a long time to come.

I enjoy playing Vanguard and will continue to play it. I really don't think RMT will affect me at all.

Originally posted by Vrazule

 What's even more insulting is that SOE wants the monthly sub plus the micro transactions, what a freaking greedy and disgusting business model.  What exactly have they added to any of their MMO's to justify the increased income? 

Agreed.

Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.

That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

I will continue to play.

I havent seen much talk about this in game. I played for 6 hours last night and saw it mentioned once and it was
"What do you think of the RMT change?"
"Dont really care, it wont bother me none"
"Whats RMT?"
"Real Money Transfer"

I dont do anything with RMT type services but I will also not let it prevent me from playing a game I like.

Originally posted by Vrazule

If I were still playing the game, I would have quit after hearing this news.  I refuse to support any gaming company that institutes Real Money Transactions or Micro Transactions in their MMO.  I refuse to be nickel and dimed in any game and these companies certainly have not earned the right to receive more income beyond 15 bucks a month.  Unless they start packing these games with a lot more entertaining content (read: not a bunch of grinding bullshit) then they might deserve to increase their fees.   Then there's the whole fairness issue, but most companies could care less about morals.

What's even more insulting is that SOE wants the monthly sub plus the micro transactions, what a freaking greedy and disgusting business model.  What exactly have they added to any of their MMO's to justify the increased income?  They already charge for the expansions.  They already make a huge profit margin on the subscriptions.  It's utter non-sense and any player that buys into it, deserves their fate.  Have fun emptying your wallet for these blood sucking bastages.

I do need to pay my subscription. Do I also adding to that pay for some tiems in a chasshop?

Compared to other cashshop based games.

Continue with the support for chinese sweatshops, they need to earn their living and not lose out something like this that SOE is doing.

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Originally posted by boojiboy

You are missing the most likely answer.  Yes - don't care about RMT, won't participate.

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 Agreed. Poor poll. Sorry.

If anything RMT is a good thing. For those who don't like it they won't participate and they will have their own, seperate economy. Those who do participate (those who don't/can't earn items the hard way) will have their economy. In the long run it equates to more money for SOE, that is if people quit having such a knee jerk reaction to the acronym RMT.

The poll is all wrong. It should read: why the hell  does anyone actually play a sony game!

Ever since EQ1 when sony brought verant back in house, I have seen a slow and steady decline for sony games. They talk about how they have learned their lesson and will listen to their users but they dont. They could care less what any of their users has to say.  I have no problems with cash shops at all. But if a game is going to have a cash shop there should not be a monthly fee, period! So sony is going to buck the standard and not only have a cash shop but keep charging people a monthly fee. I swear, unless sony changes their ways, I will never pay for another sony game again. Its not that I dont have money to play, Hell, I am playing 3 different mmos right now, 2 of them are pay to play and 1 of them is free and I have probably spent more money on the free one than I have for the other two combined. I have no problems supporting a cash shop based game however I refuse to have to pay monthly fees for it to. The problem is flat out how sony runs their gaming divisions that I have a problem with. Until they clean house and get rid of some dead meat that is in managment, they are destined to suck. And sadly, I have loved almost all of sonys games, at least up to the point that they screw them up (which they always do!).

Originally posted by Buccaneer

I only re subbed last week, but once it was announced and the players concerns ignored I decided to cancel my sub.

It was the same with my friends, girlfriend and me. We resubbed, had lots of fun.... and then John "DISSASTER" Smedly comes along with his stupid RMT wet dream crap to burry the game.

We ALL insta canceled our subs, removed our CC details and turned our backs to SOE for good now.

Never seen such a disaster of a company before in my life (ehmm well... except World Online, that was a bigger dissaster).

Originally posted by boojiboy

Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.

That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

I dissagree 100% with the red. Vanguard is a great game. But soe is a shitty company and If rabid fanboys cant see the damage this will do to what little is left to the game then I see no reason to keep playing.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by boojiboy

Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.

That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

 

I dissagree 100% with the red. Vanguard is a great game. But soe is a shitty company and If rabid fanboys cant see the damage this will do to what little is left to the game then I see no reason to keep playing.

I don't think it is an issue. I resubbed despite the RMT option which I won't use. Heck, I was in the game trying to figure out where to buy a horse (finally found a place) and not once did I even remember there was a rmt option.

It's not a pvp game so there isn't competition in that department. And really, it's such a shock to compare the worlds of Vanguard to other games as you really get the sense they were trying to build a world as opposed to make it so everything is convenient.

For those who want something differfent, it might offer what they want. And all they have to do is forget the rmt option.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by boojiboy

Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.

That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

 

I dissagree 100% with the red. Vanguard is a great game. But soe is a shitty company and If rabid fanboys cant see the damage this will do to what little is left to the game then I see no reason to keep playing.

 

I don't think it is an issue. I resubbed despite the RMT option which I won't use. Heck, I was in the game trying to figure out where to buy a horse (finally found a place) and not once did I even remember there was a rmt option.

It's not a pvp game so there isn't competition in that department. And really, it's such a shock to compare the worlds of Vanguard to other games as you really get the sense they were trying to build a world as opposed to make it so everything is convenient.

For those who want something differfent, it might offer what they want. And all they have to do is forget the rmt option.

Oh...soon after Live Gamer is live you will come here crying and eat your own words.

You will cry how you can't get any major quest chain done anymore, because important spots are perma camped by farmers. Oh did no one tell you it's a fully open, seamless NON Instanced world?

You will cry how you can't get into any friggin' dungeon in the game world, because it's perma camped by farmers. Oh did no one tell you it's a fully open, seamless NON Instanced world, including the dungeons?

Hence, even crafters will start crying they can't harvest anything anymore nor get anything sold anymore, because of farmers doing it 24/7.

You want me to go on? I think most people will get my point.

Cheers

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Originally posted by Guillermo197

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Originally posted by Sovrath

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Originally posted by Ekibiogami

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Originally posted by boojiboy
 
Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.
That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

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I dissagree 100% with the red. Vanguard is a great game. But soe is a shitty company and If rabid fanboys cant see the damage this will do to what little is left to the game then I see no reason to keep playing.

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I don't think it is an issue. I resubbed despite the RMT option which I won't use. Heck, I was in the game trying to figure out where to buy a horse (finally found a place) and not once did I even remember there was a rmt option.
It's not a pvp game so there isn't competition in that department. And really, it's such a shock to compare the worlds of Vanguard to other games as you really get the sense they were trying to build a world as opposed to make it so everything is convenient.
For those who want something differfent, it might offer what they want. And all they have to do is forget the rmt option.

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Oh...soon after Live Gamer is live you will come here crying and eat your own words.
You will cry how you can't get any major quest chain done anymore, because important spots are perma camped by farmers. Oh did no one tell you it's a fully open, seamless NON Instanced world?
You will cry how you can't get into any friggin' dungeon in the game world, because it's perma camped by farmers. Oh did no one tell you it's a fully open, seamless NON Instanced world, including the dungeons?
Hence, even crafters will start crying they can't harvest anything anymore nor get anything sold anymore, because of farmers doing it 24/7.
You want me to go on? I think most people will get my point.
Cheers

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Secondly, I come from Lineage 2. I defy you to show me a game that has more bots out in the open. I can easily ignore them. And since I have no problem grinding I don't necessarily have to do Vanguard's quests.

And incidentally, Lineage 2 is a fully open non-instanced world. I get it.

I'm sorry but I've played a far more hardcore game than Vanguard. I can safely ignore Vanguard farmers. Been there done that.

And remember, regardless of whether Sony sets up their own RMT, there have always been some sort of farmer in these types of games. Are you saying that farmers from before are different than new farmers?

I hate to say it and it is a bit presumptuous on my part but what the heck.. I'll go for broke... it sound to me that YOU aren't used to dealing with a game over run by farmers and you are projecting what will happen not based on experience but just at some sort of academic guess. Maybe not, I could be wrong.

But as I've said, I've played Lineage 2 for 4+ years. Compared to that I can handle anything now.
 

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

I've played Lineage 2 for 4+ years. Compared to that I can handle anything now.

 

Get a grip on yourself and your overblown EGO man and get real!

How many western players you think can put up with the crap going on in Lineage II ?

And how many of those you think play western MMO's like Vanguard?

You cannot even closely compare those 2 type of games. It's like comparing apples with oranges.

Everyone knows Eastern MMO's are cheating and botting heaven and that most of these companies don't give a damn about them.

Doesn't mean we want the same crap happening over here in the West!

Poll shows 62 out of 100 will definitely cancel because of the RMT add on and 14 undecided so split those and 69 out of 100 are leaving.

Smedley is brilliant.

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Originally posted by Guillermo197
 
 

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Originally posted by Sovrath
 
 
 
 
 

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I've played Lineage 2 for 4+ years. Compared to that I can handle anything now.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Get a grip on yourself and your overblown EGO man and get real!
How many western players you think can put up with the crap going on in Lineage II ?
And how many of those you think play western MMO's like Vanguard?
Enough said.
 
 
 
 
 

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Farmers have always existed in these games and always will where there is an open economy. So you can either work out a way to live with it or just not play.
But I have played in a world where there were a lot of bots and have learned to live with it. Otherwise it just drives you nuts and quite frankly that's not good for your emotional health.
 
I can't make people NOT buy from farmers.

And to suggest that western gamers would never put up with what Lineage 2 offers and that anyone who does is somehow aberrant is just amazing. Also, you clearly don't understand the game and what it's about.

Sorry but if you think I have a large ego I can easily launch back a retort that you are coming off as hysterical.

edit: in addtion, in the future you are going to find more games with cash shops of some sort. Turbine has already hired someone to work on a game that will utilize some sort of RMT. NC Soft has NC Coin.

The evidence is overwhelming... people do spend real money on some sort of in game items. So either game companies allow 2nd party groups to take advantage of their work or they head them off at the pass.

This is a discussion that game devs have been having for years. It's hard to convince them not to have some sort of RMT when so many people are doing it without their blessing to begin with.
 

Originally posted by boojiboy

Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.

That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

Livegamer on its own is enough for some people to walk away.  This is not a small issue to many people.   For some it may not and they can ignore it or even get into it.  Not that I recall anyone asking for this service in Vanguard and the original vision of the game was hardline against this, but oh well.  It is just another bad another bad decision from whoever happens to be in charge of the game.

That aside, this is just another step in a continuing trend with soe and all of their live games.  Slow and steady decline of development staff.  Implementing RMT based systems to raise the 'average subscription price' for the player base and redirecting portions of what is left of the staff to work on the RMT systems instead of typical support they used to give.

This trend really sucks for gamers and I hope at the very least it stays contained at soe.

Everything about their games boils down to asking the players to pay more for less than what they were getting for free a few months earlier.  That is the trend and it is only going to get worse, because that is the focus of this company.  They want subscription fees on top of real money transaction fees.  Advertising and whatever other nonsense smed and the money grubbers can dream up will be next. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by boojiboy

Vanguard is truly one of the best, if not the best PvE MMOs out there, people love the game and LiveGamer isn't enough to quit over.  I don't don't think LiveGamer will have much impact at all and the subs should keep increasing.

That said, I also think the community will do it's damnest to kill LiveGamer by boycotting it.  No one will use it, it'll have no volume or impact and hopefully it's forgotten and pulled out.  The EQ2 LiveGamer services has almost no activity from what I understand.

 

Livegamer on its own is enough for some people to walk away.  This is not a small issue to many people.   For some it may not and they can ignore it or even get into it.  Not that I recall anyone asking for this service in Vanguard and the original vision of the game was hardline against this, but oh well.  It is just another bad another bad decision from whoever happens to be in charge of the game.

That aside, this is just another step in a continuing trend with soe and all of their live games.  Slow and steady decline of development staff.  Implementing RMT based systems to raise the 'average subscription price' for the player base and redirecting portions of what is left of the staff to work on the RMT systems instead of typical support they used to give.

This trend really sucks for gamers and I hope at the very least it stays contained at soe.

Everything about their games boils down to asking the players to pay more for less than what they were getting for free a few months earlier.  That is the trend and it is only going to get worse, because that is the focus of this company.  They want subscription fees on top of real money transaction fees.  Advertising and whatever other nonsense smed and the money grubbers can dream up will be next. 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it's true, Sony is very money focused but they are also a publicly traded company. Publicly traded companies tend to be money focused. In addtion, they haven't done so well in several of their departments so they will go and capitalize on where they can make money.

But I don't think this is going to be solely a Sony thing.

They are just the first to say "screw it, this is what we are doing". Other companies are following. NC, Turbine (as I mentioned above) among others.

So players will just make the choice, either ignore it and find ways to play or don't play.

I haven't noticed the difference with RMT - whatever that is it hasn't affected me.

Judging by all the negative responses to this (people didn't even see if it would be a bad thing) I would think I'm the only person still playing and the game will fold any day now.