Why didn't they wait until the game was truly ready to release it, because now, with the total disaster that the release has been, people will always have reasons to rubbish the game and the makers - everyone knows that you often get one chance to make a good impression, and they failed miserably.

Just to think how much cash could be rolling their way if people could join, if people could play and if they got it right before release - surely continuing with a beta would have been the obvious option. Or maybe getting together with a company who would actually have made a good go of it, one with experience and which has learned from previous game releases.

It is a shame that so much hype had the potential to deliver so much, but now, most who can't join or can't log in will probably put off the many who are still (like me) unable to get an account.  I can afford to waste a bit of cash and will probably try again when the news is good, but for those who make careful selections of their computer games because funds are tight, they may just go elsewhere.

The worst things for me have been a total lack of news on the website, with few or no updates near to the actual launch, the forums being in a mess, the shop always being offline, the difficulty in even finding out where to go and how to sign up in the first place.

Where to go from here?  I suggest that they get in some help with the cash that has come in and let the professionals administer the game and the launch while they concentrate on improving whatever game is out there - I say this because I cannot get an account.

I don't like to see anything fail or anyone, but the patience of many will be tested here, as it currently is I believe.

I hope the final outcome is a fix to the problems, in a realistic time, before people go somewhere else.

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more severe problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

 

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more sever problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

 

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

agreed.   Having only 1 server and not allowing players to actually play the game isn't what is hurting Darkfall.  The problem with darkfall goes down to the basics of gameplay.  Every game has server issues and queue problems at launch.   The real problems with Darkfall happen once you actually get in game

1.  Too many exploitable bugs.  Entire guilds camped high level monsters that didn't fight back for the first 3 days after launch.  Those guilds then got the best city spots.

2. Terrible itemization.   Equipping yourself with your newbie weapon and no armor is almost as effective as having good gear.  Every major battle consists of 50% of players who are naked.  Every PK you find in the wild is naked.   Yes, it gives you a slightly better chance to beat them, but when you do, you get nothing.  It totally ruined the major feature of this game, which was 'full loot pvp'.

3. Skill system is terrible.   Skill gains mean nothing and are easily macro'd.   If they completely removed the entire skill system it would not make the game worse... it literally has no influence on gameplay other than the fact it gives you something to do when you are watching TV.

Even if 50,000 people were playing on 10 servers, it wouldn't change these issues.  The whole account management/server/queue mess is just a small indication of the unprofessional and hack job that was done on the rest of the game.

Over the last 6 years we have seen this before games that are launched unfinished and no stress test before going life well we already see the result. with so many problems and devs who lie or lack of communication, i dont think this game will last long if this continuing:(

Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

 

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more severe problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

 

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

What they put on paper as there dreamgame and they visioned all those years 80% is removed, not ingame.

What they have told us and discussed and said in devs talks last 6 years i realy dont know hwat have happend but its almost all gone:(

 The question is how much money do they need to keep the game alive? I doubt they get more than ~5k people returning after the first month is up. Also in the longterm I highly doubt it peaks above ~20k if they ever stabalize and get more servers, however I think there would be more like ~8-10k people max who end up playing this game in the long run 4 months from now.

That's not a whole lot of revenue coming in. I don't see this game as being here in 6 months time unless they do something drastic, but with their lack of communication and such I don't think they will.

You all talk like you know it all.

The game is fun, nobody in the game has done everything. The content is far from maxed out. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean the game is awful.

There are problems, and I've been the first to point some of them out, but the core of the game is good.

The game will be around until there's something comparable offered. Mortal is months away at a minimum.

People still want:

1. PvP
2. Sandbox
3. boats
4. non-instanced
5. city building
6. 3-D
7. large world
8. some 1st person elements in combat

There's some games out that offer a little, but many people would rather support this game through the trials because in the end what the developers want to create is the same thing we want to play.

Small developer's are going to have the problems we're seeing. I don't tell people to go back to WoW, or any other game, but I've played them and I won't take another polished game that's no fun. I'd much rather play a game that's going to take some work, but still aims higher.

Because they were out of money.

Period.

Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

 

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more severe problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

 

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

Whatever they were thinking, they happened to create the most fun MMO I have ever played.

Your opinion not withstanding.

Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

 

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more severe problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

 

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

     If Darkfall would have been an empty room most of their fanbois would have called it the best game ever.......As logn as they have 10 players (9 gankers and a noob) and FFA PVP loot then everything else is perfect........

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

 

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more severe problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

 

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

 

What they put on paper as there dreamgame and they visioned all those years 80% is removed, not ingame.

What they have told us and discussed and said in devs talks last 6 years i realy dont know hwat have happend but its almost all gone:(

What they put on paper? There was no paper to start with...

They just went for a ride, visiting all the mmorpgs of the 2000's claiming "I would design this better".

Then they tried to copycat the best ideas of what they saw for their game: I remember back in the time when there were no plans to implement  naval combat, about the era of the pirate games/movies... 

It's just a collection of scraps of other peoples ideas, badly implemented of course.

They could not wait any longer... They've been developing it for about 8 years and honestly the game was only going to look and feel more and more dated than it already was. Not to mention the company was running out of money... that tends to happen with most Indie developers.

It wasn't really a choice they had to release more than 1 server -- It's all they could afford!

This game would have been amazing... 5 years ago. Unfortunately for them it's just too late to really be groundbreaking.

Originally posted by Genesis88

They could not wait any longer... They've been developing it for about 8 years and honestly the game was only going to look and feel more and more dated than it already was. Not to mention the company was running out of money... that tends to happen with most Indie developers.

 

It wasn't really a choice they had to release more than 1 server -- It's all they could afford!

 

This game would have been amazing... 5 years ago. Unfortunately for them it's just too late to really be groundbreaking.

out of curiousity... do you have links for any of this financial information?

Darkfall will not give you stuff to do, you do what you want in the world - albeit choises are not many but when you look at other games and their endgame it's exactly the same.

At least DF has full loot, nice world and a lot of potential.

Let me be the first in this thread to have a go at the DF-fanbois and DF-uberhypers

Told ya so! Na-na-nana

The technology issues are surmountable. But I am inclined to agree, by any measure the game 'design' is severely lacking. I think they went the laundry list type approach with no real thought about how the list of 'features' would actually work, let alone work together. 

I agree why? or even how? How could people passionate about games get so many game elements wrong?

 I really don't understand what everyone is talking about as far as the game design. I think the game has pretty much accomplished most of what Aventurine promised, and most of the players I've heard from seem to be having a good time.  The bugs may be many but a good idea and fun gameplay is sometimes all you need for a game to be worthplaying so I really don't understand where all these ridiculous "design" flaws come in.

A poster mentioned above about spawn camping and itemization and so on, those aren't design flaws those are balance issues and bugs.  The OP hasn't even played the game, and speaks mostly on his inability to get in the game.  I think Aventurine is getting out of this experience exactly what they wanted.  They are running a full server to their specifications and letting people in as they can handle them.  If they wanted to have more players and more money then they would have opened more servers by now... or if they couldn'topen more servers they would have increased the cap at launch and really sold out of spots.

So where is the "design flaw"? All I see is a company thats managing the users that play their game? Maybe its not the best fiscal choice but that isn't a choice the players get to make, and if that turns away some players, then it isn't a design flaw, its a decision aventurine has made.

 The main design flaws .....hmm just about everything in game is done by a left click on a static object on screen....over and over again. Except the state of the art combat which is wack a mole, a left click on a moving target. Parry now and then and you are glden. Most of the skills are redundant (and so dull that people just macro to increase them). The economy ...well luckily one dosent exist or all the cheaters would be even better off. The world is big but kind of cold and lifeless. I dunno unless things have improved since beta it plays like a technology demo. I had the privllige of testing one of the up and comimng skill based games (can't say which or they will chop my testicles off, I am rather fond of my testicles) even in alpha it is miles and miles and miles better thought out. Sure it may not have 200 skills but there are a lot and they are unique. I could go on and on but in the end I find DF lacks charm or a soul. Maybe once they really start building up the game that migt change <shrug> who knows.

Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.

 

Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more severe problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.

 

And that is almost impossible to fix now.

Yep. Darkfall just plain sucks as a game and as an expiriment, that's the fundamental issue at work here.

Originally posted by Katrar

Yep. Darkfall just plain sucks as a game and as an expiriment, that's the fundamental issue at work here.

The only LOGICAL reason I can think to explain why Darkfall was so poorly implemented from concept to actual game...is that, early in 2003 or 2004 (don't know for what reasons)  the guys in the team that knew how to code left  and Razorwax found themselves with a code they could no longer evolve.

After toying with the idea of abandoning the project altogether, Aventurine dropped in their way and convinced them to continue. But the source code, ofc, was property of different developers, and they scrapped it and started anew. Problem being that, the team that ended up being Aventurine, was probably not so experienced in coding and game design...so they produced Darkfall as we all playtested it; half-baked, more like an alpha concept of a game than  an actual finished product.

I would even dare assume that some of the 'experienced' coders joined Starvault for Mortal Online (the dates Razorwax disbanded and MO began development seem to match)...don't have any proof to back up my suspicions, but the way both projects launched their beta applications (with a beta trailer), and some other things have given me that weird idea...

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by Katrar

Yep. Darkfall just plain sucks as a game and as an expiriment, that's the fundamental issue at work here.

 

The only LOGICAL reason I can think to explain why Darkfall was so poorly implemented from concept to actual game...is that, early in 2003 or 2004 (don't know for what reasons)  the guys in the team that knew how to code left  and Razorwax found themselves with a code they could no longer evolve.

After toying with the idea of abandoning the project altogether, Aventurine dropped in their way and convinced them to continue. But the source code, ofc, was property of different developers, and they scrapped it and started anew. Problem being that, the team that ended up being Aventurine, was probably not so experienced in coding and game design...so they produced Darkfall as we all playtested it; half-baked, more like an alpha concept of a game than  an actual finished product.

 

I would even dare assume that some of the 'experienced' coders joined Starvault for Mortal Online (the dates Razorwax disbanded and MO began development seem to match)...don't have any proof to back up my suspicions, but the way both projects launched their beta applications (with a beta trailer), and some other things have given me that weird idea...

Interesting observations. Who knows, but your theory doesn't sound too improbable.

Originally posted by mark2123

Why didn't they wait until the game was truly ready to release it, because now, with the total disaster that the release has been, people will always have reasons to rubbish the game and the makers - everyone knows that you often get one chance to make a good impression, and they failed miserably.

Just to think how much cash could be rolling their way if people could join, if people could play and if they got it right before release - surely continuing with a beta would have been the obvious option. Or maybe getting together with a company who would actually have made a good go of it, one with experience and which has learned from previous game releases.

It is a shame that so much hype had the potential to deliver so much, but now, most who can't join or can't log in will probably put off the many who are still (like me) unable to get an account.  I can afford to waste a bit of cash and will probably try again when the news is good, but for those who make careful selections of their computer games because funds are tight, they may just go elsewhere.

The worst things for me have been a total lack of news on the website, with few or no updates near to the actual launch, the forums being in a mess, the shop always being offline, the difficulty in even finding out where to go and how to sign up in the first place.

Where to go from here?  I suggest that they get in some help with the cash that has come in and let the professionals administer the game and the launch while they concentrate on improving whatever game is out there - I say this because I cannot get an account.

I don't like to see anything fail or anyone, but the patience of many will be tested here, as it currently is I believe.

I hope the final outcome is a fix to the problems, in a realistic time, before people go somewhere else.

cant agree more Mark.  My personal experience is quite similar.  I went to the website knowing the game was being launched in stages. I looked around and I was surprised that there were not any massive signs with a clear message about buying accounts.  So I ended up posting here and some people gave me the link.  Then I created an account and got the 'shop is closed' message then I am told to use torrent to download the client.  Ok torrent isnt so unusual but I never used it so by the time i downloaded torrent and then realised I had to configure that also I kinda gave up.  If I could download the client directly from the site and jump into the game then Adventurine would have had my money for a week.  I am a prime example of the demographics that will want to try Darkfall but not desperate to move from my other two games, which are LotRO and AoC.  So if they don't get their stuff together then time will move on and then Jumpgate Evo or some other game I am watching will be out in June and I won't bother with DF unless it had massive reviews...which it doesnt.  Here is a prime example once again where a company can fail if they don't get the launch right.  8 years in development can be ruined by something so straight forward...well should be.

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Originally posted by steven1966

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Originally posted by Galadourn

In  short: Darkfall isn't suffering from a poor launch performance. That would have been the good case scenario.
 
Sadly, Darkfall suffers from much more sever problems; major design issues. In fact, if one plays for more than a few hours, he can't help but wonder what on earth were the developers thinking when they put on paper the core gameplay concepts.
 
And that is almost impossible to fix now.

---

 

2. Terrible itemization.   Equipping yourself with your newbie weapon and no armor is almost as effective as having good gear.  Every major battle consists of 50% of players who are naked.  Every PK you find in the wild is naked.   Yes, it gives you a slightly better chance to beat them, but when you do, you get nothing.  It totally ruined the major feature of this game, which was 'full loot pvp'.

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Man if you naked and with a noob weapon beat me banded and with a rank 40 weapon 1 out of 10 fights i'll give you plate set. If not you'll give me 1000 golds. Deal?