www.massively.com/2009/03/18/rumor-cryptic-using-city-of-heroes-for-champions-beta-recruitme/

today iron angel posted that it was true

iron angel community rep

"So, we're currently running the closed beta test for Champions Online and a few of our employees thought it might be a good idea to contact avid MMO notables and various guild leaders floating about to see if they wanted to test. I'm certain this wasn't meant to be a malicious attack on a competing product, nor did anyone intend to steal players, violate user agreements, kill babies, or knife hardworking farmers in the back. We had invites to send and the folks who send them figured people who play MMOs most might want them most. If a line was crossed, it was totally inadvertent and no harm was intended.

That being said, we have just recently restructured the Community, PR, and Marketing departments (part of the reason I'm here), so we'll make sure to stay straight as an arrow from here on. Shills, poaching, bullshotting... No chance, man. We make good games and we hope people will play them. Best anyone can do, right?"

 update

http://www.massively.com/tag/champions-online

all's fair in love and war ;-)

I could understand somebody getting riled up about this, but personally I don't really care enough to even raise my eybrows. The only thing about this that gets a big question mark from me is: If they need beta testers so bad, why not just let the people in who applied for it? I mean, I guess you could argue that they're trying to damage CoX by luring their customers away, but let's be real. What percentage of active CoX forum posters do you suppose have appied for Champions beta? My guess is 80%.

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

all's fair in love and war ;-)

ok so when you get a account for CO it's ok for DC to send you a tell saying hey we got a beta going on ,send me a email and i'll get ya in.

because that's what happened.

someone in cryptic made an account and sent messages via in game and on the boards about send me an email i'll get you in beta ....all the while people on the CO boards have been waiting for beta

First the above quote from Ironangel wasn't her quote.  She posted the statement which was from her boss Ivan Sulic.

Another big issue about this underhanded move by Cryptic, is they created an account for CoH which would then have them under CoH's User License Agreement.  By solliciting CoH's customers through CoH's forums and game mail, Cryptic broke CoH's ULA.  What does that say when a company won't respect another companies ULA, but expect everyone else to abide by their own?  It wouldn't surprise me if there is an eventual lawsuit filed by NCSoft, hell if Champions steals a huge chunk of CoH's players when it launches (which I'm thinking many would have expected even before this)  I wouldn't put it past NCSoft to try and prove that this little stunt caused them to eventually lose subscribers and they seek to be compensated for their loss.  I've heard of worse lawsuits filed.

Originally posted by minago

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

all's fair in love and war ;-)

ok so when you get a account for CO it's ok for DC to send you a tell saying hey we got a beta going on ,send me a email and i'll get ya in.

because that's what happened.

someone in cryptic made an account and sent messages via in game and on the boards about send me an email i'll get you in beta ....all the while people on the CO boards have been waiting for beta

As a former community manager who conversed with other community managers, I can honestly say this is not against the ToS or EULA of any forums or game I have conversed with.

However, I'd understand if players would fail to understand the legal complexity of the issue.

I also understand the need for Beta Testers who, actually, test the game... as apposed to the average freeloader who will play at the given opportunities and then drop the game after a short period or free play time period.

I believe the goal was to try to garner a group of testers from players who were interested in the "Hero" genre of MMO games.  The group who'd be most likely to play at release... who'd also be most likely to pay the monthly fee.

EDIT: ...also known as "The Target Audience".

I have no problem with that.

Gamers tired of CoH won't care about whether it's professional or not, as long as they make a good game, lol. I know I wouldn't as a customer. Heck, as a customer, I certainly approve of this tactic. It shows that a company is actually willing to look cheesy to get my business dollar.

Make a good game, and only the industry will hate you. The fans will love you.. just look at WoW. You'll be a pariah but you'll be a rich pariah.

Well people take note of these tactics all im saying

and mmorpg's players have an elephants memory, when it comes to getting screwed over

Well, I've tried and played CoX, wheres my beta for this? :P

I applied for their beta as soon as it was announced, and they'd rather troll competitor's forums for players? Yikes not exactly a smart move to me.

ok so when you get a account for CO it's ok for DC to send you a tell saying hey we got a beta going on ,send me a email and i'll get ya in.

Not only is that okay with me, I hope they do it! I do agree that it's a cheesy, somewhat underhanded strategy. But it's ultimately meaningless: when Champions is released, CoX players will play whichever game they prefer. When DCO is released, we superhero nuts will have three games to choose from. ChO doesn't have to poach from CoX; players will make the migration, or not, based on their own preferences.

Between Cryptic, Ncsoft corporate, and CoX's rather personable American development team, I have no idea how to split my loyalties, so I remain neutral on all of them. I reman neutral on Ncsoft. . . and I've played both Tabua Rasa and Auto Assault.

This whole thing was about NcSoft crying the blues because they know they will be losing alot of players to Champions and DC Universe. No harm done and life goes on...

Originally posted by SaintViktor

This whole thing was about NcSoft crying the blues because they know they will be losing alot of players to Champions and DC Universe. No harm done and life goes on...

it's called dishonest practices ....a game company went into another 's  forums trying to snake customers .

also bumpty bump

This was posted as a rumor.  I need to see this to believe it.  Can someone post the link pointing to an employee of NC recruiting off the coh/v forums?  I play coh/v way too much because of its being so different from the usuall swords and slingshots mmo.  Anyway, I have never heard of this while in game or in forums but then again dont really look for it.  Please post the link directing us to the evidence.   Thanks much.

Originally posted by minago

it's called dishonest practices ....a game company went into another 's  forums trying to snake customers .

 

also bumpty bump

It's hardly dishonest. It's just low on the morality scale.

But, whatever, Champions Online is shaping up to be much better than CoX.

Wow, mellow out man.  Head hunting happens all the time - it happens in pro sports, work and just about everwhere people can have different levels of skill.  Why would you expect it to be any different in games testing?

Originally posted by minago

Well people take note of these tactics all im saying

and mmorpg's players have an elephants memory, when it comes to getting screwed over

 

no they don't... two words "jack emmert"

Originally posted by horrid

Wow, mellow out man.  Head hunting happens all the time - it happens in pro sports, work and just about everwhere people can have different levels of skill.  Why would you expect it to be any different in games testing?

 

 

um... don't you get paid to play pro sports, or to work?  if they're hiring beta testers from coh players, that's one thing, and that goes along with your examples.

if it's non-paid beta testers, then your examples are apples to kites.

And apples and kites go togeather very well.  A nice crispy apple while you fly a kite is a great was to spend a few hours.

If you spend your life looking for reasons to hate and blame then you are going to spot things to hate and blame everywhere you look.  All I see is a company trying to get good testers so they can make a good game - I am not going to get worked up over it. 

Though I think you are correct - head hunting people to try out a new leisure activity is so so low on the ladder of importance it is like eating an apple while you fly a kite :)

http://www.massively.com/2009/03/19/cryptic-used-ncsoft-forums-for-beta-recruiting-not-really-sorry/

the update previously wasn't linked right ...fixed

NCsoft shutdown two games I enjoyed and one I loved.  I don't care how shady, cheesy, or whatnot Cryptic seems to have performed, NC doesn't give a damn about players, and I would rather have them lose all the customers and go belly up.  Normally I don't mind, but as it stands NC has about 1% trustworthyness that the next game they release won't close in within 2years.

Regardless, CO looks for superior to CoX in everyway.  They built of their previous successor and built a better one, CoX will probably close down within 6-12months after this release.  NcSoft won't make enough money on it.

I don't think it was "shady".  It's not like they are "stealing" customers.  It's closed beta.  It's FREE and it's usually only weekends or short stints.  People will still need their full time MMO.  I think it's a pretty genius move.

Cryptic how about you give beta acess to the people who actually applied on your site, instead of going to other games and asking random people... D BAGS!!!

 If they buy my product and abide by my terms of service, EULA there is nothing I can do. Heck, I may even let them buy in game advertising. Its all business. 

It is up to me to make my product competitive for the newer games. And that is good for all consumers. Now if they hack my game, then lawsuits are in order.

Originally posted by minago

Originally posted by kilun

NCsoft shutdown two games I enjoyed and one I loved.  I don't care how shady, cheesy, or whatnot Cryptic seems to have performed.

 

Get off my thread noob.

this thread is not about how much you dislike ncsoft.

this thread is about how much of a dick move ,cryptic pulled by trying to screw over there follow co workers" i.e paragon studios"

read the thread and find out how they handled the situation and their reaction .

They can bitch all they want but it's all moot anyway. You've been to a concert before right? Ever got a demo from some new band while there?

Now imagine that CoX's manager (NCSoft) was throwing a concert and a promoter (Cryptic) was there passing out demos for it's new band called ChO.  Same difference. Some may go home to listen to the demo and decide they like the demo band's music better, but if the concert was slammin most may check out that demo and stick with their original band. Hell some may try both.

Say a group of fans has been following this demo band before that concert but didn't go. Would they be upset because they didn't get a copy of that new demo? Most definitely. But I'm sure that Cryptic will be sending their demos in the mail soon. They aren't hard press to do it because those fans are ALREADY fans, get it? They KNOW they will listen to the music so they don't have to bend over backwards to cater to them.

Trust me they have your name, info, email.....you'll get into beta, but not when YOU want to.

Personally I don't think it's that big of a deal even if it is true.