His final score makes sense when you realize that like most DF fans, they rate PVP combat factors much more heavily than anything else in the game.

In fact, they are willing to overlook long queue times, bad animations, terrible customer services, weakly implemented skill system, poor server performance (for some) and the fact it is a game for those who run in packs, (which they enjoy) and not the solo player.

For those of us who might weigh some of those other issues more heavily, we'd have a different score.

Fact is, for the FFA, full loot PVP crowd there is nothing else on the market atm, so they have no choice but to like DF.

And it does sound like they got a number of things right, like large scale sieging, city building, boats etc, which is the core of their gameplay.

If they just could smooth out their delivery of the release they could keep a lot of fans happy for a good long while.

I think the real question right now is will lack of proper funding kill DF before its given a chance to mature, because I believe they are very cash starved at this point.  It will be a race to the finish to see if they can hold it together long enough.

 The thing to remember here is that we're getting a pretty misrepresentative group of people reporting on Darkfall. The game is incredibly difficult to even acquire much less play, there was a huge amount of negative forum press in the leadup to its 'release', and by its very nature it is a game that will only appeal to a small section of the MMO gaming population. Thus, it's pretty fair to assume that all the people who are currently playing Darkfall are those people who really REALLY want to and really REALLY enjoy that type of game, to the point where (like Keen, Paragus et.al) they are willing to overlook glaring inadequacies that would be game-breaking for the wider gaming community because of their love for this gaming style.

So take this, and every other Darkfall review, with a grain of salt. The reality is that if any of last year's major MMO releases (Conan, WAR) had limited access to their games to such a ridiculous extent and made their customers jump through so many hoops just to take a look, the so-called 'unbiased reviews' coming out of those games would have looked a whole lot rosier as well... and we all know that the reality in those cases was somewhat different.

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

 The thing to remember here is that we're getting a pretty misrepresentative group of people reporting on Darkfall. The game is incredibly difficult to even acquire much less play, there was a huge amount of negative forum press in the leadup to its 'release', and by its very nature it is a game that will only appeal to a small section of the MMO gaming population. Thus, it's pretty fair to assume that all the people who are currently playing Darkfall are those people who really REALLY want to and really REALLY enjoy that type of game, to the point where (like Keen, Paragus et.al) they are willing to overlook glaring inadequacies that would be game-breaking for the wider gaming community because of their love for this gaming style.

So take this, and every other Darkfall review, with a grain of salt. The reality is that if any of last year's major MMO releases (Conan, WAR) had limited access to their games to such a ridiculous extent and made their customers jump through so many hoops just to take a look, the so-called 'unbiased reviews' coming out of those games would have looked a whole lot rosier as well... and we all know that the reality in those cases was somewhat different.

Interesting, but rrelevant to the real reason some find the game so good.

I woke up this morning to find that the city that I have been working on over the past 3 weeks had been destroyed. Realise that I have committed maybe 40 hrs of actual game time to aquring materials, gold, etc for the construction. I, being one of many that contributed similar effort.

A real, tangible loss, in terms of a real time investment. We basically have been set back to the beginning, as far as our city is concerned.

This is one of the reasons, among many others, why I simply love this game.

Understand?

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

 The thing to remember here is that we're getting a pretty misrepresentative group of people reporting on Darkfall. The game is incredibly difficult to even acquire much less play, there was a huge amount of negative forum press in the leadup to its 'release', and by its very nature it is a game that will only appeal to a small section of the MMO gaming population. Thus, it's pretty fair to assume that all the people who are currently playing Darkfall are those people who really REALLY want to and really REALLY enjoy that type of game, to the point where (like Keen, Paragus et.al) they are willing to overlook glaring inadequacies that would be game-breaking for the wider gaming community because of their love for this gaming style.

So take this, and every other Darkfall review, with a grain of salt. The reality is that if any of last year's major MMO releases (Conan, WAR) had limited access to their games to such a ridiculous extent and made their customers jump through so many hoops just to take a look, the so-called 'unbiased reviews' coming out of those games would have looked a whole lot rosier as well... and we all know that the reality in those cases was somewhat different.

 

Interesting, but rrelevant to the real reason some find the game so good.

 

I woke up this morning to find that the city that I have been working on over the past 3 weeks had been destroyed. Realise that I have committed maybe 40 hrs of actual game time to aquring materials, gold, etc for the construction. I, being one of many that contributed similar effort.

A real, tangible loss, in terms of a real time investment. We basically have been set back to the beginning, as far as our city is concerned.

 

This is one of the reasons, among many others, why I simply love this game.

 

 

Understand?

 

 

 

Yes I understand perfectly... and it's exactly as I said - for the small population of players who love the (retro) features Darkfall offers, like suffering significant and permanent loss in a game, the other glaring issues surrounding Darkfall are less important. But don't kid yourself, you are definitely in the minority. Just like players who preferred the "good old days" before you could save your games and were forced to endlessly repeat the content until you could overcome that particular obstacle, or players who go on forums demanding games reintroduce permadeath, it's all just points along a spectrum.

The vast majority of players do not crave this kind of repetition or `lost progress', particularly those who have jobs and families and don't have the luxury of endless free time. Good old "risk vs reward" is a catchy phrase, but history has shown that most people tend to tire of it at a rate roughly proportional to the harshness of the penalty it invokes. Not to say that either side is more or less correct, just that one is indisputably less popular than the other.

Back to my original point then: those dedicated few who enjoy the features that Darkfall offers enough to scramble to preorder, struggle to buy and queue to play are so happy with the game they're willing to overlook its problems in favour of "that certain indescribable something" we hear time and again in DF reviews. Fact is, "that certain something" is probably not what the majority of players would enjoy or are looking for, and by not making that clear these reviews are clearly biased.

Understand?

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

 The thing to remember here is that we're getting a pretty misrepresentative group of people reporting on Darkfall. The game is incredibly difficult to even acquire much less play, there was a huge amount of negative forum press in the leadup to its 'release', and by its very nature it is a game that will only appeal to a small section of the MMO gaming population. Thus, it's pretty fair to assume that all the people who are currently playing Darkfall are those people who really REALLY want to and really REALLY enjoy that type of game, to the point where (like Keen, Paragus et.al) they are willing to overlook glaring inadequacies that would be game-breaking for the wider gaming community because of their love for this gaming style.

So take this, and every other Darkfall review, with a grain of salt. The reality is that if any of last year's major MMO releases (Conan, WAR) had limited access to their games to such a ridiculous extent and made their customers jump through so many hoops just to take a look, the so-called 'unbiased reviews' coming out of those games would have looked a whole lot rosier as well... and we all know that the reality in those cases was somewhat different.

 

Interesting, but rrelevant to the real reason some find the game so good.

 

I woke up this morning to find that the city that I have been working on over the past 3 weeks had been destroyed. Realise that I have committed maybe 40 hrs of actual game time to aquring materials, gold, etc for the construction. I, being one of many that contributed similar effort.

A real, tangible loss, in terms of a real time investment. We basically have been set back to the beginning, as far as our city is concerned.

 

This is one of the reasons, among many others, why I simply love this game.

 

 

Understand?

 

 

 

 

Yes I understand perfectly... and it's exactly as I said - for the small population of players who love the (retro) features Darkfall offers, like suffering significant and permanent loss in a game, the other glaring issues surrounding Darkfall are less important. But don't kid yourself, you are definitely in the minority. Just like players who preferred the "good old days" before you could save your games and were forced to endlessly repeat the content until you could overcome that particular obstacle, or players who go on forums demanding games reintroduce permadeath, it's all just points along a spectrum.

The vast majority of players do not crave this kind of repetition or `lost progress', particularly those who have jobs and families and don't have the luxury of endless free time. Good old "risk vs reward" is a catchy phrase, but history has shown that most people tend to tire of it at a rate roughly proportional to the harshness of the penalty it invokes. Not to say that either side is more or less correct, just that one is indisputably less popular than the other.

Back to my original point then: those dedicated few who enjoy the features that Darkfall offers enough to scramble to preorder, struggle to buy and queue to play are so happy with the game they're willing to overlook its problems in favour of "that certain indescribable something" we hear time and again in DF reviews. Fact is, "that certain something" is probably not what the majority of players would enjoy or are looking for, and by not making that clear these reviews are clearly biased.

Understand?

What you describe in the last paragraph is usual behavior for anything people are fans of..

You favorite soccer team, your favorite movie, your choosen hobby ..its a sign that you happy with, see future excitement with it and believe it will give you good experience and excitement in the future so your overlook things you not prioritize..

The vast majority of players  do exact the same ...the difference is they prioritize different things and favor something else ..mostly the common denominator..that is mediocrity..

Originally posted by popinjay

Certainly looked fair and balanced to me. Not homely, and certainly not trolly (we've seen enough of those). Good to see some reviews from other people in the industry. Reminds me of Paragus.. pretty straight forward and not "Rah rah".

Keen usually tries to keep his reviews fair. He reserves the scathing stuff for his rants, and he makes it very clear ahead of time which you will be reading. I like the fact that he gave both his expectations and what he ended up feeling about the various aspects after getting to experience them.

DF is really a game you get right out of the gate or you don't. AV has lots of issues to fix but when everything is running you can get lost for hours in play. The lack of a PvE system has just strengthed our guild. You pop in  see whos farming or mining or take a raft ride and see whos out and about and try to pirate another raft. The lack of support systems like econ and quest strings is really kind of forcing everyone to make their own fun and rules and econ systems. Its been years since I have been involved in guild politics and trying to broker alliances or hell even wanted to craft as i found it boring in other games. Now you never now if you go out and try to mine  who might jump you and take you down or what you might luck into when you take them down (Not everyone AFK Macros). Now you have to plan harvesting raids to get nodes and guard shipments back to a safe bank etc. This is what a sandbox is suppose to be isn't it. The only people I see bitching in our guild of 100+ are the ones that can't wrap their minds around  that  there really are no levels and a guy naked in with a leafblade can take down somone if full plate if he is lucky. The people that are trying to apply the WOW, AOC or WAR level rules are trying to skill up for no other reason other then thats the only way the know how to play a game and can't under stand that building your city or hamlet and taking war to other guilds and fighting the dragons or black knights is what suppose to be the fun part of the game not checking stats like an account. It simple PLAY the game and skills will come. 

Pvp bad becouse of alignment system and sci fi starwars star trek super LASER towers.

You dont have ANTI vs RPK in Darkfall its just zerg fest, it favors pk and the blue are as bad(also pk, wtf?) as red or vice versa you cant tell anymore if someone is ANTI or not:(

The more I read about this game, it sounds like the idea medievil atmosphere.

Projecting back to those days, it was all alliance based; marriages cemented kingdoms to keep peace, cities (countries) were spread out far and wide, there was crudeness and harshness (as evidenced by the fighting system), and there was plenty of hunting and gathering.

I played Vanguard and imo, that game had that best crafting in any mmo, but I know that if I played DF and expected that, I'd be severely letdown. I wouldn't want to spend hours and hours finding and learning recipes and then crafting them. In a game like this, I'd want to kill people.. any people, that weren't part of my group. The least amount of time I spent doing stuff like crafting or gathering, the better.

I'd hope that I could go out with clanners, happen along onto some guy or some "red" enemies just as they were just finishing up a 2 hour harvest and take everything they had. In any other game, that's just assholery. In DF, that's not only socially acceptable, but if passed up a potential enemy gathering supplies that might one day help to bring down your clan, you'd be silly not to attack them. I might even give them an ultimatum like they did in medievil days.. "Join or Die." lol

If I was a person living in modern day Africa, just out gathering cattle or roots or whatever by yourself, and you know there are hostile gangs that roam the land with machetes that look to kill you and enslave you, why would you go out alone? This is a game where again, the goal is to group and survive as part of a clan.. not some hermit someplace. You can play that way, but the rules clearly say you are game. I never understand how someone knows this going in, and still could complain about it.

I would have no problem with the social dynamic in this game as it's patently understood by anyone with common sense. The only issue would be gameplay and coding, and if my characters weren't constantly siezing, or the desktop crashes were insane, or the lag was unbearable, I could live with it.

i stopped reading when he thought a pvp oriented mmo would have good crafting

no serious MMO players wants to craft

Originally posted by rr2real

i stopped reading when he thought a pvp oriented mmo would have good crafting

no serious MMO players wants to craft

Im a serious MMO player and I'd prefer crafting over grinding skills/levels.

The only reason I level/skill up is so I can acutally use the stuff I craft!

---

Originally posted by rr2real

i stopped reading when he thought a pvp oriented mmo would have good crafting
no serious MMO players wants to craft.

---

If you are referring to my post, I don't think you read it at all, because that was never said nor implied.

If so, I'm glad you stopped reading it, that means you shouldn't have to respond anymore and try to impress people with your aloofness.

Originally posted by rr2real

i stopped reading when he thought a pvp oriented mmo would have good crafting

no serious MMO players wants to craft

PvPers often aren't the crafters, and in many PvP MMOs the PvP players rely on crafters to create things for them. I don't see anything wrong with a PvP game that also has crafting. Ultima Online did well with it, and EVE Online does very well with it. In fact, it's a form of PvP in EVE Online.

every skillbased game (so far) has been abused by macro'ers.  It happens, its a part of life, deal with it.  The atlernative (i see) is to force it so you only get a skill point IF you kill a mob that grants experiance (to stop low level farming...ect) however this basically screws over the whole system.

aside from that it seems you hit the nail on the head.

Originally posted by Evasia

Pvp bad becouse of alignment system and sci fi starwars star trek super LASER towers.

You dont have ANTI vs RPK in Darkfall its just zerg fest, it favors pk and the blue are as bad(also pk, wtf?) as red or vice versa you cant tell anymore if someone is ANTI or not:(

Alignment system and newb towers really don't mean much at the clan city level.

Those "features" are simply to keep newbs and griefers happy, I suppose...

Red or Blue is irrelevant, once you actually start playing the game.

What the poster said earlier about some people not being able to wrap their heads around this game, is true.

I do not see it as a grind. I do not grind. I play, use my skills and, magically, my skills become better while I actually become more skilled playing the game.

All the bells and whistles in the world don't really mean anything, if the basis is flawed.

Would it be nice for Darkfall to have some more of these bells and whistles, sure and like what has happened to another great game called EVE, since Darkfall has the basic package fairly tight, it's rather easy to add sugar and spice and everything nice at a later date...

My view, anyway.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by rr2real

i stopped reading when he thought a pvp oriented mmo would have good crafting

no serious MMO players wants to craft

 

PvPers often aren't the crafters, and in many PvP MMOs the PvP players rely on crafters to create things for them. I don't see anything wrong with a PvP game that also has crafting. Ultima Online did well with it, and EVE Online does very well with it. In fact, it's a form of PvP in EVE Online.

Not to mention that crafting is a major component of a "sandbox" game, which is what Tasos purports Darkfall to be.  Crappy crafting, no fauna to hunt/trap, no trade-boards or auction hourses, no player housing and and no free-form building?  How much of a sandbox is it?

Is it possible to have fun without these?  Sure, but you're not going to be able to experience everything Darkfall was "supposed" to be.

~Ripper

---

Originally posted by rhinok

Not to mention that crafting is a major component of a "sandbox" game, which is what Tasos purports Darkfall to be.  Crappy crafting, no fauna to hunt/trap, no trade-boards or auction hourses, no player housing and and no free-form building?  How much of a sandbox is it?
Is it possible to have fun without these?  Sure, but you're not going to be able to experience everything Darkfall was "supposed" to be.
~Ripper

---

I'm not too sure about this one. Warhammer has the crappiest crafting I've ever seen in any game; simple and boring. And that doesn't seem to stop the people who want to oRvR.

Crafting in this game so far seems to be adequate, not stellar as advertised. In that the crafting is good enough to allow clans to build their cities... its more than adequate. Gear wise it may suck, but this isn't supposed to be a gear heavy game anyway. After your city or gear, what reason is there to have crafting in any game? None. So the crafting in this game does its job. There just aren't as many shinies to suit the average gamer, but for the DF fan, its more than enough.

Again, no DF fan wants to sit around for hours crafting crap. They usually want to go kill something yesterday, so if they can get their city up asap and get back out, its good enough. They don't want to trap, or hunt, or play the AH with mods like stockbrokers buying and selling. They can already build their main goal, a city. The masses will not like that but they don't really care, nor do they need the "masses" at this time with only ONE server, lol.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by rhinok

 

Not to mention that crafting is a major component of a "sandbox" game, which is what Tasos purports Darkfall to be.  Crappy crafting, no fauna to hunt/trap, no trade-boards or auction hourses, no player housing and and no free-form building?  How much of a sandbox is it?
Is it possible to have fun without these?  Sure, but you're not going to be able to experience everything Darkfall was "supposed" to be.
~Ripper

---

 

 

I'm not too sure about this one. Warhammer has the crappiest crafting I've ever seen in any game; simple and boring. And that doesn't seem to stop the people who want to oRvR.

 

Crafting in this game so far seems to be adequate, not stellar as advertised. In that the crafting is good enough to allow clans to build their cities... its more than adequate. Gear wise it may suck, but this isn't supposed to be a gear heavy game anyway. After your city or gear, what reason is there to have crafting in any game? None. So the crafting in this game does its job. There just aren't as many shinies to suit the average gamer, but for the DF fan, its more than enough.

 

Again, no DF fan wants to sit around for hours crafting crap. They usually want to go kill something yesterday, so if they can get their city up asap and get back out, its good enough. They don't want to trap, or hunt, or play the AH with mods like stockbrokers buying and selling. They can already build their main goal, a city. The masses will not like that but they don't really care, nor do they need the "masses" at this time with only ONE server, lol.

 

 

sorry, that is NOT what is advertised~!!

In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players.

Darkfall?s crafting system is intuitive, non-repetitive, challenging, useful, fun - and profitable. Using Darkfall?s virtually limitless item creator system, you could invent and be the first to use a weapon as awesome as the Flamefury Raudstaal Battleaxe of Bloodshed, or just make a simple saddle for your horse.

Bring your goods to market using Darkfall?s sophisticated and secure trading system, bringing buyers and sellers together easily whether they?re inside the game or not.

and

Can players make magical items?
Darkfall features an extremely sophisticated item creator, which will enable players to create powerful items, like weapons, jewelry, armor, wands, potions, food and more.
We have invested a lot of time and design resources into creating the ultimate player based economy. Players who enjoy trading and crafting will truly enjoy Darkfall’s virtually limitless item creator system, something never before seen in a MMORPG.

Will items decay with use?
Yes they will.

Is it possible to repair items?
It is possible, with the proper skills and tools, up to a point. Eventually an item will be destroyed after being repaired several times.

What types of items can I make?
You will be able to make almost every item found in the world like weapons, tools, armor, clothing, food, containers, furniture, jewelry etc.

How do I get the resources I need to make items?
You can gather the resources you need from hunting, or from mining the specific resource. You could also buy them from a vendor or another player.

What different crafts buildings are there?
There’s a smithy, a workshop, an alchemist shop, a herbalist’s shop and the mage guild.
 

Can I have pets or NPC hirelings in Darkfall?
You can have pets and NPC hirelings in Darkfall, ranging from tamed animals and monsters, to summoned skeletons, charmed animals and monsters, hired NPC merchants, hired NPC guards, etc.

What can my NPC hirelings do?
NPC hirelings can follow you around and fight with you, they can carry your loot, they can perform skills and spells to aid you, etc. NPC hirelings can do pretty much everything that player friends can do. In addition, NPC hirelings can be given advanced orders such as patrolling your city, looking for enemies, criminals, and thieves. They can be a vendor in your shop that you have set up, they can mine for minerals in a mine, they can go out into the forest and chop wood for you, or stand on the banks of a river fishing for you all day.
 

so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

Originally posted by damian7

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

Its nothing more than how HE feels playing Darkfall. So if he loved it or hated it .. .who cares.  I mean EVERYONE talks about that site lmao.. not

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

...

 

... 

Yes I understand perfectly... and it's exactly as I said - for the small population of players who love the (retro) features Darkfall offers, like suffering significant and permanent loss in a game, the other glaring issues surrounding Darkfall are less important. But don't kid yourself, you are definitely in the minority. Just like players who preferred the "good old days" before you could save your games and were forced to endlessly repeat the content until you could overcome that particular obstacle, or players who go on forums demanding games reintroduce permadeath, it's all just points along a spectrum.

The vast majority of players do not crave this kind of repetition or `lost progress', particularly those who have jobs and families and don't have the luxury of endless free time. Good old "risk vs reward" is a catchy phrase, but history has shown that most people tend to tire of it at a rate roughly proportional to the harshness of the penalty it invokes. Not to say that either side is more or less correct, just that one is indisputably less popular than the other.

Back to my original point then: those dedicated few who enjoy the features that Darkfall offers enough to scramble to preorder, struggle to buy and queue to play are so happy with the game they're willing to overlook its problems in favour of "that certain indescribable something" we hear time and again in DF reviews. Fact is, "that certain something" is probably not what the majority of players would enjoy or are looking for, and by not making that clear these reviews are clearly biased.

Understand?

 

What you describe in the last paragraph is usual behavior for anything people are fans of..

You favorite soccer team, your favorite movie, your choosen hobby ..its a sign that you happy with, see future excitement with it and believe it will give you good experience and excitement in the future so your overlook things you not prioritize..

The vast majority of players  do exact the same ...the difference is they prioritize different things and favor something else ..mostly the common denominator..that is mediocrity..

 

It may well be the definition of "fans", but therein lies the difference between Darkfall and other titles - there are so few people allowed in, and so many obstacles to prevent you even playing let alone enjoying your experience, that the DF playerbase is nothing BUT 'fans'. So every player review you read, no matter how 'neutral' or 'unbiased' it claims to be, is likely to be coming from one of these blind fans... and therefore biased.

Sure everyone has different priorities, but to label other peoples' preferences "mediocre" because they're more popular or different from your own is the sort of sad, misanthropic elitism we've become used to seeing from those players (prevalent in the Darkfall community it seems) who've managed to delude themselves into believing that their way of playing computer games is somehow superior. Stop fooling yourself, it's every bit as ridiculous as labelling yourself a "hardcore" hairdresser or a "1337" florist.

 I just want to remind you that Keen&Graev are the guys that claimed WAR was absolutely awesome.

So take this with pinch of salt ...or as poster before said "honeymoon review"

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

isn't it funny how you trolls have to resort to dredging up the web site FAQ that has been out of sync with the game for literally years in order to slander the game?

isn't it also funny how you slander the game and cry about how inadequate it is yet you continue to hang around the DF forums crying & whining about it?

here's a clue: if one were to sign up to a motorcycle forum for a while while they try out a motorcycle but then decide they don't like motorcycles, if they continued to post on the motorcycle forum that motorcycles were bad/unsafe/crappy, wouldn't everyone be well entitled to think they were a total moron? think about it.