Originally posted by Trissa

Originally posted by pencilrick

To the OP's wishlist , especially the part about wanting a "story", I suggest not an MMO but a book.

Now, hear me out, I am serious.  Story-driven players would best be served by a good fantasy novel that lays out all the narrative in linear fashion just like they want.  No keyboard or carpal tunnel problems, they can just sit back and read.  Books have better storylines than anything devs put in anyway, at least the better fantasy novels.

I really think my advice is sound, because for players that just have to have things laid out for them and have to follow some plotline, a wide open MMO world will not be to their liking.  Let these players have books and their fixed storylines instead; I think the players (readers?) will be happier.

 

The story is just a part of the game amongst a lot of other things you cannot experience reading a book. I’m an avid reader of novels and other type of books but for me its clearly different activity and experience than playing a game.

You read the book, you can get immersed in the book’s story in its real or fictional world but you play the game it’s not the same.
May be it has to be with how you approach the game, I know from friends that play MMOs that there are very opposite different approaches.

In one end you will get people looking for pure competition against other players or against the challenges the game could have and don’t care at all about lore, ambience, stories to follow. They are the kind of players that rush to the level cap, that rush to get the first kill, that rush to build the first castle or win the biggest battle.

At the other end you will find the roleplayers, they use the MMO just as a tool, they care about all the things the other don’t care, lore, environment, stories are an important part of the MMOs, they are normally great readers that look in an MMO for a way to write their own stories and to challenge their friends in a different ways than the others. In between these extremes you will find all the variety of visions you can imagine.

Please don’t try to make our games poorer than they are right now. And think if it is deserved to be considered: at the end reading a book, although it’s always a way to grown, it’s a passive and individual activity while MMOs are an active and collective experience (well at least a cooperative activity in most cases).
 

Well, the point I am making is that "story", not "backstory" which is fine, can sometimes lead to game design that is very forced and linear, making a player feel that the dev's are railroading them down a path.

Ex.  "Storyline"

Player follows, in order, a bunch of cutscene-type quests which lead to an instanced encounter with the witchking.

Ex.  "Backstory"

Player can learn through talking to NPC's or other players that there is a badass keep in the desert occupied by a very uber witch king that drops great gear, and the player can venture there at his or her own volition, with no guarantees of success.

I don't know about you, but I like freedom of choice (not freedom of result; results can be variable) in my gaming.  I cannot stand a game that forces contrived linear gameplay on me.  Therefore I "wince" whenever I hear players on these forums asking for more "storyline".  I guess I'm thinking of the part of the storyline that starts now and projects into the future.  I can do with out that, but am just fine with "backstory" up to the present moment.

Originally posted by Elikal

I know we all have other priorities, and with so many letdowns I thought what I would like to see in a MMO of my dreams. In no order of importance here comes my brainstorming.

1. I want to wear cool armor/clothing.

Yeah, that is one thing I wish a MMO had but there are limitations as to how many sets of cool armor can be designed over a MMO lifetime. I think a released MMO should have as a bare minimum 20 unique sets and 20 basic sets of armor for each type.  As the game progresses update on armor styles should be part of the development cycle.

(Ok sorry, I AM a fag, lol. Wardorbe just came to my mind first, lol) I am so fed up with all that dumb looking generic stuff. I want flowing mage robes like from a Chinese movie! I want dangerous looking platemails! I want armour with lots of detail and diversity! And HECK I dont want to look like everyone else or look with level 50 same as with level 10. WAR was kinda the most uncool way to dress I have seen. Whoever made that armor & robe collection must have been blind. Since I have a hang for Asian robes I tried a lot of those Asia games, but of course as games they are all horrible. Its just that people from Asia IMO have a better taste when it comes to clothing and armour, but thats of course subjective. I am just tired of the EQ2/WAR trash of wearing rags.

 

2. I want combat that feels like IMPACT

Combat styles are one thing and the blood and gore is another. A MMO that is rated 'M' should have dismemberment. Twitch style combat is great but the problem in synchronizing the server to client and can lead to problems. I was thinking about using the mouse as left button is left hand and right button is right hand. Yeah, we get to put a weapon in either hand but the feasibility of this is still questionable.

AoC was cool in that way. I just loved to hack arms and heads with my Barbarian and see innards spread all over. Ok, it doesnt HAVE to be that bloody, but I am so fed up with this symbolic combat where you click and then one ability-film is played. I want characters that walk and fight like they had weight, not like those LOTRO like featherweights. (Ok, the new LOTRO classes were better in that way. A bit.)

 

3. I want many cool races!

I like the races too but development of say eight playable races with all the armor sets and all the variations to each race can lead to a lot of work for the graphics department. There is a point in design where you have to call it good and then add the races in future expansions.

Really, the more and the more diverse the better. I loved those dragon-things from EQ2, THAT was finally something new and cool. Also loved Ratonga or Fae from EQ2 or those many VG races. Though the VG races looked a bit too plastic. I also want my characters to look unique, not 6 haircuts 5 faces trash.

 

4. I want story!

I think a story about the world you play in is more important than anything. I mean that is why some play a RPG. Many development teams are focused more on the player generated content than on the storyline because it is cheaper. A massive epic story line would be awesome and that is another goal I hope to see happen. I also hope to see more AI in the game where NPC react to you and not to a script.

The later LOTRO books and many of those instanced quest finales were really nice. I am so sick of all those "fetch me 20 boar snouts for my mom's pie" shit. I mean, ok, not every quest can be epic, but it always is kinda odd when the world is close to Armageddon and some Gnome moans about 2 rats in his cellar.

 

5. I want difficult and easy things to do!

I find a lot of people saying this and it is a good idea. I want a world where I can explore and adventure in without always fighting my way into an area and then fight my way back out. I am sick of these games they call MMORPG and yet you are in a theme park setting the RPG is missing in most of the games I have seen. Sandbox games lack the storyline and a game with a mix has yet to be released. I am not saying they're not being developed but weather the public gets them is questionable.

Often I found MMos are either too easy and streamlined, like WAR or burdened with overly complex quests like EQ2. In that term too LOTRO has a good mix of both long, difficult quests and simple quests. Not every time I want to dig myself into week-long, world shattering questlines, but when a game is only a simple theme park I am also bored. A MMo needs depth, complex things, many things, many quest types. There cant be enough spheres or gameplay, since my tastes often differ from day to day. Often I found I needed 3 different MMos to subscribe to satisfy my various interests, and I would prefer to see them all in one instead of needing several specialized MMOs. I generally dont like the idea of overly specializing a MMO for one gameplay sphere.

 

6. I want a HUGE world!

Me too.

A simple thing. I am an explorer and I want a world big enough that I know it takes years to explore it all. VG and WOW are good in that aspect. I also dont like my world to be overly instanced. EQ2 always was kinda sucking at that. Isnt it great just to roam free?

 

7. I want no grind!

Any game that is designed so you have nothing to do but kill stuff is not designed right.

Sure some grind is in every MMO, but some really overdid it. Talking about WOW and the endless faction grind. That some people really rejoiced when the latest expansion brought more factions to grind is beyond me. Or when SWG introduced Jedi at first, it was a totally mindless, endless grind. Kill 100k of X to become Jedi wasnt what I had in mind to become a Jedi Knight. Same goes to gold grind to buy horses or houses. It can be difficult, but just placing a long grind lane into a game is cheap. Nothing ires me faster than those grind lists to unlock whatever good. Make it a series of dfficult quests (Trials of Obiwan springs to my mind; those were great quests.), but just setting a high bar of grind is really so mindless.

 

I am sure there is a ton more. Affordable housing and mounts, haircuts that doesnt look like concrete, faces that doesnt look like someone fell headon into a lawnmower, penalities which are neither meaningless nor making me cry in sleep, but those are sure my top seven ideas I can make with a short brainstorming.

So, whats your perfect MMO made of?

I can't find the perfect MMO and I am tired of spending money on steaming piles so I am going to do something else. I am going to say this and hope others understand what I am saying. I am working on a game world that is going to dwarf todays games. The land mass is 16.49 billion square meters or 1,030,792.2159 square miles. The world is round so if you took off in one direction and ran at 4 meters a sec you would pass the stating point in 6.068148148 days and that is not game days. That is real days. Now this game has a lot of development time invested but the recent events here on MMORPG.COM have set me into determination mode to see this game completed or die trying.

The world is huge but the world may not be considered a game because it is a virtual world where things are persistently changing. There is a story to this world that needs completed and the story is epic. There are things to do in this world where if you so wish to never lift a sword you can live in it and adventure. You will be able to change the world and how the NPC's react to you. There are rules in this world that keep others in check. The murder system is self regulated. What you do will determine how NPC will react to you.

Drawback here is money. I know it is going to cost BIG money. I am working hard to get that kind of cash flow and I know I am going against all odds to develop this but I have to try instead of tossing it all away like I almost did and then say 'wish I had tried'

 

To those of you that encouraged me to continue I want to thank them.

 

D

1. A MMORPG with no pre paid game cards. This just attracts way too many kids deteriorating the community ala WoW. Even though kids can borrow mom and dads credit cards i firmly believe this will cut the kids playing MMO's in half if not more. Many parents are unwilling to have a monthly draw on their credit cards.

2. I want death penalties. This will eliminate casuals and unskilled players. I say unskilled in the sense that if you play badly you will get slapped for it to the point where you will either level slower than everyone else or simply quit the game. I don't care if anybody finds this retarded it is MY wishlist. Ok i don't want to alienate all casuals. Just the one who want their hands held all the way to last level.

3. I want to eliminate 20 man + raids and cut them down to two groups. This way we can cut down on the time it takes to establish a raid.

4. I want loot to drop for each person individually when a boss is killed. Everybody gets loot even if the items are not for their class. This solves the stupid /roll system and the stupid raid point system. While solving those idiotic systems there still is a reason to form groups to kill these bosses again and again. Simply because you are not garunteed the drops you want.

5. I want a completely randomized loot table for all mobs like diablo 2.  Bosses having a higher chance of dropping something good and ordinary mobs a much smaller chance. While we are at it i want the size of the loot table be equivilant of diablo 2 as well if not bigger.

6. I want there to be a big emphasis on loot AND character builds. fifty fifty.

7. I want either a character customization system that allows over 20 unique and viable builds pr class or specialized classes able to take on unqiue roles in a group. Either or is fine.

8. Optional PvP servers with consequences for dying. Not enough to discourage but enough for you to worry about dying. Exp loss could be a possibility but item loot is fine too. Not the complete inventory but maybe just 1 item you are wearing minus your weapons.

9. An awesome LFG tool. Imagine a LFG tool that works offline like an alarm. You sign up for a group to do a quest line, instance or some group based farming then just log off and have a little icon in your system tray warn you with either sound or a popup or possibly both that people have signed up for your group. This way you can do other things than stare at your screen waiting for people to group with. Hell you can even add a timer that lets you LFG at a certain time interval every day or certain days and times where you know you have spare time to play. This can be done without ever having to log into the game. Just imagine what you can do with this.

10. A crafting system where the items you create is very competitive to the drops in the game. Not surpassing the quality of super rare loot but something that makes it more than worthwhile. I really like the way crafting work in Vanguard...something a long those lines.

11. I want the game to support two boxing. For this to be a fun option for me there needs to be healing or buffing classes preferably both depending on specialization or class. I'm thinking DaoC type where you could either be a great buffer or a great healing class but not both. I want two boxing to give a player an edge. If a game allows for multi boxing ala DaoC and old school EQ then more copies will be sold as a direct result on top of increasing my fun factor.

12. I want twinking of characters both in PvE and PvP. It gives you an advantage over non twinked players. The reason why i think this is completely fair is because everybody can get a character to max level and start gathering gear for their alts. this is an option readily available to everyone. This rewards and encourages people to level up and gives another motivation to farm for items. I love farming for items.

13. Lots of buffs like increase attack speed and attack damage..more hitpoints..more regeneration etc. Buffs that matters. I don't want the game be 100% reliable on buffs but they should matter and they should decrease downtime by a lot. People should want and crave buffs because they enhance gameplay. No fluff buffs ala WoW.

14 No more gear dependant raids. You know the kind that you can only go on if you have 20.000 hp max resists and uber sword of pending doom. Gear should make a raid easier and not make it the only way of success.

That's it for now

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by Trissa

Originally posted by pencilrick

To the OP's wishlist , especially the part about wanting a "story", I suggest not an MMO but a book.

Now, hear me out, I am serious.  Story-driven players would best be served by a good fantasy novel that lays out all the narrative in linear fashion just like they want.  No keyboard or carpal tunnel problems, they can just sit back and read.  Books have better storylines than anything devs put in anyway, at least the better fantasy novels.

I really think my advice is sound, because for players that just have to have things laid out for them and have to follow some plotline, a wide open MMO world will not be to their liking.  Let these players have books and their fixed storylines instead; I think the players (readers?) will be happier.

 

The story is just a part of the game amongst a lot of other things you cannot experience reading a book. I’m an avid reader of novels and other type of books but for me its clearly different activity and experience than playing a game.

You read the book, you can get immersed in the book’s story in its real or fictional world but you play the game it’s not the same.
May be it has to be with how you approach the game, I know from friends that play MMOs that there are very opposite different approaches.

In one end you will get people looking for pure competition against other players or against the challenges the game could have and don’t care at all about lore, ambience, stories to follow. They are the kind of players that rush to the level cap, that rush to get the first kill, that rush to build the first castle or win the biggest battle.

At the other end you will find the roleplayers, they use the MMO just as a tool, they care about all the things the other don’t care, lore, environment, stories are an important part of the MMOs, they are normally great readers that look in an MMO for a way to write their own stories and to challenge their friends in a different ways than the others. In between these extremes you will find all the variety of visions you can imagine.

Please don’t try to make our games poorer than they are right now. And think if it is deserved to be considered: at the end reading a book, although it’s always a way to grown, it’s a passive and individual activity while MMOs are an active and collective experience (well at least a cooperative activity in most cases).
 

 

Well, the point I am making is that "story", not "backstory" which is fine, can sometimes lead to game design that is very forced and linear, making a player feel that the dev's are railroading them down a path.

Ex.  "Storyline"

Player follows, in order, a bunch of cutscene-type quests which lead to an instanced encounter with the witchking.

Ex.  "Backstory"

Player can learn through talking to NPC's or other players that there is a badass keep in the desert occupied by a very uber witch king that drops great gear, and the player can venture there at his or her own volition, with no guarantees of success.

I don't know about you, but I like freedom of choice (not freedom of result; results can be variable) in my gaming.  I cannot stand a game that forces contrived linear gameplay on me.  Therefore I "wince" whenever I hear players on these forums asking for more "storyline".  I guess I'm thinking of the part of the storyline that starts now and projects into the future.  I can do with out that, but am just fine with "backstory" up to the present moment.

I like freedom of choice too. Stories to follow in game, as far as they are not forced to be played, is what i was thinking about, more than the lore or background story. Really i dont see a big difference in game play in the examples you put in your post (except for the instanced part, that is not mandatory in a story line) for me the real difference will come if the gear  the witchking drops is a must for your avatar to be successful, if it happens you have no freedom doesn't matter if the encounter is leaded by an interesting story or just by a poorer talk with a random NPC. If it not happens you are free both ways.

Anyway i agree with you that forced linear game play is something i'm not going to enjoy in my game. But having more elements to play with its a pro for me, and long and hard quests story driven with good rewars i'm sure i'll love in my game. May be i could expend a week doing it and just go out to grind or hunt enemies the week after.

Originally posted by Antarious

For me this concept is pretty simple... doing it .. ya anyway.

Would be a modern day version of Ultima Online.  It doesn't have to be UO.. UO2 etc it could even be a sci fi game.. post apoc game.

I'm talking about the game mechanics.. the player based economy.  The idea that the better drops in the game were pretty much only as good as crafted items.

Item loss which equates to long term sustained player market.  Relative ease of item creation (if you played UO .. you know what I mean) so that said market doesn't turn into the standard idiot price range seen in most MMO's.

Basic concept of "law" regions and the "wasteland" which would have no rules.. other than survival of the fittest.

Rather than ending up with another trammel split.

I don't want to create more of a wall of text no one would care to read.  This is just the basics of what *I* would want.   There are a lot more implications of why I want this core mechanic of UO type setup.  Again just to much text for here.

This would be the foundation for my wishlist MMO.

Oh and the idea is bigger, better.. more.  (yes I loved SWG Pre-CU too but it was a lot more limited in many ways than UO and that wasn't really where I would want to go).

 

ooops /endramble

I agree with your wishlist.
 

I would want:

1. skill based NOT level based

2.  Player housing

3.  UO type of crafting system

4.  Huge world to explore

5.  Most important, NO stupid quests!!!  SANDBOX FTW!

Originally posted by Stellos

Originally posted by Antarious

For me this concept is pretty simple... doing it .. ya anyway.

Would be a modern day version of Ultima Online.  It doesn't have to be UO.. UO2 etc it could even be a sci fi game.. post apoc game.

I'm talking about the game mechanics.. the player based economy.  The idea that the better drops in the game were pretty much only as good as crafted items.

Item loss which equates to long term sustained player market.  Relative ease of item creation (if you played UO .. you know what I mean) so that said market doesn't turn into the standard idiot price range seen in most MMO's.

Basic concept of "law" regions and the "wasteland" which would have no rules.. other than survival of the fittest.

Rather than ending up with another trammel split.

I don't want to create more of a wall of text no one would care to read.  This is just the basics of what *I* would want.   There are a lot more implications of why I want this core mechanic of UO type setup.  Again just to much text for here.

This would be the foundation for my wishlist MMO.

Oh and the idea is bigger, better.. more.  (yes I loved SWG Pre-CU too but it was a lot more limited in many ways than UO and that wasn't really where I would want to go).

 

ooops /endramble

I agree with your wishlist.
 

I would want:

1. skill based NOT level based

2.  Player housing

3.  UO type of crafting system

4.  Huge world to explore

5.  Most important, NO stupid quests!!!  SANDBOX FTW!

Stellos, I'd go with that, except I'm okay with levels, rather than skill-based.  Still, either would be a refreshing experience and bring back the glory days of MMO's (i.e., 1999 - 2001, IMO).

Basically, I want to log into an MMO each night feeling like I am logging into a world and catching up on all the in-game drama through guild chat.  I miss the environment and community and could give a whit about following some predestined path.