I know we all have other priorities, and with so many letdowns I thought what I would like to see in a MMO of my dreams. In no order of importance here comes my brainstorming.

1. I want to wear cool armor/clothing.

(Ok sorry, I AM a fag, lol. Wardorbe just came to my mind first, lol) I am so fed up with all that dumb looking generic stuff. I want flowing mage robes like from a Chinese movie! I want dangerous looking platemails! I want armour with lots of detail and diversity! And HECK I dont want to look like everyone else or look with level 50 same as with level 10. WAR was kinda the most uncool way to dress I have seen. Whoever made that armor & robe collection must have been blind. Since I have a hang for Asian robes I tried a lot of those Asia games, but of course as games they are all horrible. Its just that people from Asia IMO have a better taste when it comes to clothing and armour, but thats of course subjective. I am just tired of the EQ2/WAR trash of wearing rags.

2. I want combat that feels like IMPACT

AoC was cool in that way. I just loved to hack arms and heads with my Barbarian and see innards spread all over. Ok, it doesnt HAVE to be that bloody, but I am so fed up with this symbolic combat where you click and then one ability-film is played. I want characters that walk and fight like they had weight, not like those LOTRO like featherweights. (Ok, the new LOTRO classes were better in that way. A bit.)

3. I want many cool races!

Really, the more and the more diverse the better. I loved those dragon-things from EQ2, THAT was finally something new and cool. Also loved Ratonga or Fae from EQ2 or those many VG races. Though the VG races looked a bit too plastic. I also want my characters to look unique, not 6 haircuts 5 faces trash.

4. I want story!

The later LOTRO books and many of those instanced quest finales were really nice. I am so sick of all those "fetch me 20 boar snouts for my mom's pie" shit. I mean, ok, not every quest can be epic, but it always is kinda odd when the world is close to Armageddon and some Gnome moans about 2 rats in his cellar.

5. I want difficult and easy things to do!

Often I found MMos are either too easy and streamlined, like WAR or burdened with overly complex quests like EQ2. In that term too LOTRO has a good mix of both long, difficult quests and simple quests. Not every time I want to dig myself into week-long, world shattering questlines, but when a game is only a simple theme park I am also bored. A MMo needs depth, complex things, many things, many quest types. There cant be enough spheres or gameplay, since my tastes often differ from day to day. Often I found I needed 3 different MMos to subscribe to satisfy my various interests, and I would prefer to see them all in one instead of needing several specialized MMOs. I generally dont like the idea of overly specializing a MMO for one gameplay sphere.

6. I want a HUGE world!

A simple thing. I am an explorer and I want a world big enough that I know it takes years to explore it all. VG and WOW are good in that aspect. I also dont like my world to be overly instanced. EQ2 always was kinda sucking at that. Isnt it great just to roam free?

7. I want no grind!

Sure some grind is in every MMO, but some really overdid it. Talking about WOW and the endless faction grind. That some people really rejoiced when the latest expansion brought more factions to grind is beyond me. Or when SWG introduced Jedi at first, it was a totally mindless, endless grind. Kill 100k of X to become Jedi wasnt what I had in mind to become a Jedi Knight. Same goes to gold grind to buy horses or houses. It can be difficult, but just placing a long grind lane into a game is cheap. Nothing ires me faster than those grind lists to unlock whatever good. Make it a series of dfficult quests (Trials of Obiwan springs to my mind; those were great quests.), but just setting a high bar of grind is really so mindless.

I am sure there is a ton more. Affordable housing and mounts, haircuts that doesnt look like concrete, faces that doesnt look like someone fell headon into a lawnmower, penalities which are neither meaningless nor making me cry in sleep, but those are sure my top seven ideas I can make with a short brainstorming.

So, whats your perfect MMO made of?

My perfect MMO was DDO.

Only thing different now is that my guild is gone and I left the game due to school.

How about this

1a) I want Classes!

The more class diversity the better. Not only that but the MMO's that have subclasses add a unique and interesting twist to combining and developing builds for the player. Guild wars did a GREAT job at this as it was always a struggle to find the perfect balance, not only that but it made a HUGE difference what your main class was as compared to your subclass. Although FFXI has main/sub classes it's fairly basic as the abilities don't change. It's just a nerf on your level. Although not to trash their job system, because it was awesome and fun in it's own respect but GW made me start my alt-aholic addiction. Mage/Mesmer, Necro/Mesmer, War/Monk etc. It was awesome. Give me something to write home about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lw7o0cN5Kg&feature=PlayList&p=5FEAAE242DD06C24&index=3 + MMO = fuck yea!

About the combat: do you really think AoC combat was that great? It didn't feel like impact at all to me. You and your enemy just stood there slashing at eachother, ignoring the fact that you just got hit in the face with a giant axe. You barely flinch as you get hit.

Personally I actually think World of Warcraft managed to get this right. The combination of the sound effects, graphical effects and animations makes it look like that critical hit actually hurt.

I would like an MMO to come out that plays like a T.V soap.

What I mean is your helping to develop a storyline that is continually evolving and has an impact on everything else around you, such as with Asherons call 1 when the Shadows attacked and completely destroyed a well known meeting place at one of the NPC villages, that village had been there from the inception of the game and I think everyone was gobsmacked when they logged in and found a flaming huge crater, it was  case of "WTH".

I would rather play an MMO that is episodic, always moving forward and never being the same from day to day, so what if your usual quest giver isn't there to do X gives Y quest, he was killed due to a plague that wasn't stopped in time, infact the whole city was destroyed due to a fire aswell, then a few weeks later a new evil force has taken over the area and started to plot further evil doings for the rest of the world.

I know ppl would argue your going to deprive ppl of content if it's always evolving but thats a price I would gladly pay if it meant fresh challenges on a weekly basis that where then reflected in the rest of the game world, it would have been great if in WoW the alliance could invade Orgrimmar and take over the stronghold and make it their own, driving out everyone and forcing the horde to either couter-attack (thus encouraging world PvP on an epic scale) or trying to settle in a new area and create a new capital, with Blizzards resources and talent they could do this now.

This would keep any MMO both fresh and exciting for the players.

For me this concept is pretty simple... doing it .. ya anyway.

Would be a modern day version of Ultima Online.  It doesn't have to be UO.. UO2 etc it could even be a sci fi game.. post apoc game.

I'm talking about the game mechanics.. the player based economy.  The idea that the better drops in the game were pretty much only as good as crafted items.

Item loss which equates to long term sustained player market.  Relative ease of item creation (if you played UO .. you know what I mean) so that said market doesn't turn into the standard idiot price range seen in most MMO's.

Basic concept of "law" regions and the "wasteland" which would have no rules.. other than survival of the fittest.

Rather than ending up with another trammel split.

I don't want to create more of a wall of text no one would care to read.  This is just the basics of what *I* would want.   There are a lot more implications of why I want this core mechanic of UO type setup.  Again just to much text for here.

This would be the foundation for my wishlist MMO.

Oh and the idea is bigger, better.. more.  (yes I loved SWG Pre-CU too but it was a lot more limited in many ways than UO and that wasn't really where I would want to go).

ooops /endramble

i agree with everything but no7

i dont mind a grind and i actually enjoy it when i am given an opportunity to clense an area (bunkers in SWG, camps in other games).  I also like it because i can smash an enemy i love to kill (orcs, dragons, undead...ect).

everything else is spot on.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

Perfect 10/10 for Wordl of Warcraft.

When did you play Wow? back in the sixites  ? :))))

You know there IS a reason to have it all (critic acclaim, professional website reviews and the public).

Only thing is open the eyes.

 

Z! not everyone wants to play WoW.

WoW's been out for five years? maybe the guy already played it to death?

Why troll the guy and tell him to open his eyes?

People want so many different things out of a MMO not even WoW could full fill all of that.

It's almost like people need to play more then one MMO to get everything they want, so give the guy a break and stop pushing WoW at him like some Blizzard Sales rep trying to make a commision.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

Perfect 10/10 for Wordl of Warcraft.

When did you play Wow? back in the sixites  ? :))))

You know there IS a reason to have it all (critic acclaim, professional website reviews and the public).

Only thing is open the eyes.

 

 

Z! not everyone wants to play WoW.

WoW's been out for five years? maybe the guy already played it to death?

Why troll the guy and tell him to open his eyes?

People want so many different things out of a MMO not even WoW could full fill all of that.

It's almost like people need to play more then one MMO to get everything they want, so give the guy a break and stop pushing WoW at him like some Blizzard Sales rep trying to make a commision.

Yeah, what you said.  WoW is so generic it now comes in a plain white box with black lettering.  (Just about all of you are too young to remember generic branding from the mid-80's.  You haven't lived until you've bought a can of "Green Beans" produced by "Factory 52.")

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

It is so generic that it is the only mmorpg with a 200.000 dollar price money in its PvP competition ?
 

It is so generic that it is the only FANTASY mmorpg these days that has every night several times on every server world PvP of at least 100/100 players? And its basis is not even PvP.

Big world? How about a big world  times 3 with underwater and air quests?

Wow is the only game that doesn't live from potential but from delivery.

Games that try to copy it fail in almost all the way of the 7 points mentioned by the OP.

-------

The problem is very very simple: Blizzard created an MMO that perfected, streamlined, polished to the extreme.

And even this is wrongly stated, it streamlines, perfects and polishes further and further.

You already need at least 5 different MMORPG's to combine ALL the playing options of end game play in Wow these days... and then add some....

---------

It is not a PR push, it is a reality check. Wake up: Every attempt of bringing out a Wow killer was a failure these past 2 years.

Simply by talent of game design , resources and quality.

Sandbox replaced the "open world PvP slogan" of a year ago. No wonder after seeing the 3 last launches. I wonder what's next ?

Pigs in space?

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not a WoW fanboy, but anyone that puts wow on rankings below games like D&L and DF, not too mention how low it's rank is on  the website is rediculous! It may boring because everyone and their brother has played it, but that doesn't make it a bad game. Most people posting negative stuff about the game has probably spent at least 3-4 months of game time withing the game. That speaks volumes right there!!!

Who wants a WoW killer?

People that don't enjoy WoW don't need a reality check Z.

They played the game, they thought it suxed ass and moved onto a different MMO.

You action squad guys have a really hard time understanding this.

"But it's the best yadda yadda yadda....." enough already. WoW isnt the be all, end all of MMOs.

I know it hurts you to know this but whether someone likes a game or not is subjective. Hell im sure there are thousands of Runescape fans that think WoW is the worst shit ever created.

No reason to get all crazy about it.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Z3R01

Who wants a WoW killer?

People that don't enjoy WoW don't need a reality check Z.

They played the game, they thought it suxed ass and moved onto a different MMO.

You action squad guys have a really hard time understanding this.

"But it's the best yadda yadda yadda....." enough already. WoW isnt the be all, end all of MMOs.

I know it hurts you to know this but whether someone likes a game or not is subjective. Hell im sure there are thousands of Runescape fans that think WoW is the worst shit ever created.

No reason to get all crazy about it.

 

I don't think so. The last two years were bullish about Wow killers.

Not one succeded. Given fact.

----

Who would want it? The most greedy developpers in the first place. Some would give their right arm and leg to have 30% of those subs.

Problem is that your reasoning  "they played the game, they thought it sucked ass and moved" are a very small minority of the players base.

Factual reality check is more like: I am bored with playing Wow for 3 or more years and I want "something else".

That "else" seems to be impossible to achieve though as seen by the end results in success in the last launches.

Ok for 2 times more, 4 times more, 8 times more, but ... 20 times more than the next competitor in subs....is crazy.

So reality check: what's it all about?

It's all about having fun in a game. Blizzard delivers, others speak of "potential".

The OP spoke out what he thought that would have a good potential. Only one delivered, ....the rest had "potential"....

I don't know man after playing WoW I easily found a game to play for a very long time. Hell after playing those Other MMOs i was pissed that I wasted so much time playing a game that limited me so much.

Anyway the OP does not want to play WoW. so why push WoW at the guy?

Giving the guy a hardtime because he wants to play a different game?

Also everyone knows WoW is a freak of nature, for a game that doesnt have anything over any other MMO in the fantasy themepark genre to be that successful is strange. Seriously What is a game like WoW have over EQ2? or Lotro or WAR? or even Vanguard? What different combat movement?

people are lazy man, WoW is a jack of all trades MMO, its just easier to play WoW like the "cool kids" WAR has better Pvp, Lotro/EQ have better leveling content, EQ2 has a better endgame then WoW And guildwars sure as hell has better arena system then WoW.

You keep tossing sub numbers at people, list these superior features wow has I'll knock every last one of those down with games that do it better.

WoW = Jack of all trades, Master of None. That happens to be WoWs selling point along with preinstalled fanbase 3-4 million large and the popularity of Blizzard.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

It is so generic that it is the only mmorpg with a 200.000 dollar price money in its PvP competition ?
 

It is so generic that it is the only FANTASY mmorpg these days that has every night several times on every server world PvP of at least 100/100 players? And its basis is not even PvP.

Big world? How about a big world  times 3 with underwater and air quests?

Wow is the only game that doesn't live from potential but from delivery.

Games that try to copy it fail in almost all the way of the 7 points mentioned by the OP.

-------

The problem is very very simple: Blizzard created an MMO that perfected, streamlined, polished to the extreme.

And even this is wrongly stated, it streamlines, perfects and polishes further and further.

You already need at least 5 different MMORPG's to combine ALL the playing options of end game play in Wow these days... and then add some....

---------

It is not a PR push, it is a reality check. Wake up: Every attempt of bringing out a Wow killer was a failure these past 2 years.

Simply by talent of game design , resources and quality.

Sandbox replaced the "open world PvP slogan" of a year ago. No wonder after seeing the 3 last launches. I wonder what's next ?

Pigs in space?

 

How 'bout you do your homework before you make so strong statements, huh? I would not go so far as to say "it's the only one" when it's merely the "only one I've seen".

GW had multiple world and regional championships and other tournaments with cash prizes rising up to $100 000 for the winner long before WoW did. The fact that you boast about numbers is funny, since hockey/soccer doesn't get any better if you add more players to the ring/field. It's not about quantity, it's about quality.

GW is the king of competitive PvP and no WoW, WoW-killer, or any other PvE-focused-, PvP-as-an-aftertouch-, copycat-MMORPG, is ever, EVER going to take that away. There is no rational argument to change my opinion about this.

And let us not forget that even WoW had a rough start with frequent and oh so punctual server crashes but I guess people forget these things. It has also been stated that WoW has stole every single original idea from other game developers which is something fanbois need to think about. It's hard not to copy WoW because it copied everyone else first! Only innovative thing I grant to the folks in Blizzard is that they found the right mix.

I apologize to Elikal for posting off-topic but this cannot go unanswered. I'd change the huge world to deep world (I don't want to see another Vanguard) and add a dynamic content to the mix (get rid of the static world plague). Otherwise I agree with you totally.

I agree more or less with what you said being in my MMORPG utopia. But not all, not at the same level of importance.
Your points 2, 4, 5, 6 are near to top in my utopia, but just near not at the top.

For my utopia, if you allow me, I’ll change your points 1 and 3 in something more generic and say a very well done art direction according to the lore of the game that could look luxurious or frightening making for a world filled with life and mystery with a really high degree of customization available both appearance and functional (classes/skills, professions, items functionality and so) aspects. This will be at same place that the other points.

I will add another point at same level. My MMORPG have to have plenty or RP tools and enforce at least a minimum of light RP in public channels.

Finally and before I’m going to my most important points, I’m not able to see how a MMORP can avoid the grinding in one or other shape. I think, may be I’m wrong, the grind it’s in its own nature.May be if the customers can pay for a very big team of good professionals trying to win the run against players. Delivering new interesting content before the players exhausted the previous content. I think nowadays it is far beyond the utopia.

Anyway my utopia starts with a collective oriented game, full of team competition, not a solo game played in company. The goals have to be collective. The game has to reward the team work over the individuals.

Although I can imagine a PvE oriented game with this characteristic I think it will never reach the level of interest (to me) than an open PvP world, group oriented and with rules and consequences (both rewards and penalties) well designed.

The game has to make a great place for politics, economy, and power war. I know it’s not everyone tastes but it’s what I will love in my game. Of course it has to have challenging and rewarding PvE but I don’t like too much the instancing then probably in my utopia you will need several times to win your right to attempt the Big Worm.

Finally at same level in the top of my list than the point before my game has to be developed accordingly to the technical possibilities available, not in the edge, playable by any average computer at the moment of the launch in good settings but with a reasonable level. I don’t want my game looks and performs as a piece of museum in the name of the game play.

Of course it has to be delivered polished and finished (with the content advertised at launch): I’m very disappointed with the MMORPGs community about accepting half done games full of bugs, missing a lot of the features advertised. Really we got what we deserve; we need to change if we want better experiences in the future.

I could have come with things that random generating quests and spawns. Long events run by the live team like a menace against the lands owned by the players or anything but again probably far ahead of the utopia. Anyway to dream its not bad, may be in the future.
 

Originally posted by Elikal

I know we all have other priorities, and with so many letdowns I thought what I would like to see in a MMO of my dreams. In no order of importance here comes my brainstorming.

1. I want to wear cool armor/clothing.

(Ok sorry, I AM a fag, lol. Wardorbe just came to my mind first, lol) I am so fed up with all that dumb looking generic stuff. I want flowing mage robes like from a Chinese movie! I want dangerous looking platemails! I want armour with lots of detail and diversity! And HECK I dont want to look like everyone else or look with level 50 same as with level 10. WAR was kinda the most uncool way to dress I have seen. Whoever made that armor & robe collection must have been blind. Since I have a hang for Asian robes I tried a lot of those Asia games, but of course as games they are all horrible. Its just that people from Asia IMO have a better taste when it comes to clothing and armour, but thats of course subjective. I am just tired of the EQ2/WAR trash of wearing rags.

 Check....even thought I am NOT a "fag" I still want similar things like what you said. ;)

2. I want combat that feels like IMPACT

AoC was cool in that way. I just loved to hack arms and heads with my Barbarian and see innards spread all over. Ok, it doesnt HAVE to be that bloody, but I am so fed up with this symbolic combat where you click and then one ability-film is played. I want characters that walk and fight like they had weight, not like those LOTRO like featherweights. (Ok, the new LOTRO classes were better in that way. A bit.)

Check, I would love to see the hand to hand combat Watchmen style ( the game), was very content with Tabula Rasa Combat aswell AoC, but both those games didn't appeal to my MMORPG side other then in a more multiplayer type of way.

3. I want many cool races!

Really, the more and the more diverse the better. I loved those dragon-things from EQ2, THAT was finally something new and cool. Also loved Ratonga or Fae from EQ2 or those many VG races. Though the VG races looked a bit too plastic. I also want my characters to look unique, not 6 haircuts 5 faces trash.

 Check.

4. I want story!

The later LOTRO books and many of those instanced quest finales were really nice. I am so sick of all those "fetch me 20 boar snouts for my mom's pie" shit. I mean, ok, not every quest can be epic, but it always is kinda odd when the world is close to Armageddon and some Gnome moans about 2 rats in his cellar.

I do feel even though I am not really looking forward to SW:TOR I believe they might be on the right track in way's of HOW a story can be told within a MMORPG, but then again it's far to soon to know for sure, only time will tell, but from all the games I played from Bioware if they are good at one thing with a game then it's definitly telling a story.

5. I want difficult and easy things to do!

Often I found MMos are either too easy and streamlined, like WAR or burdened with overly complex quests like EQ2. In that term too LOTRO has a good mix of both long, difficult quests and simple quests. Not every time I want to dig myself into week-long, world shattering questlines, but when a game is only a simple theme park I am also bored. A MMo needs depth, complex things, many things, many quest types. There cant be enough spheres or gameplay, since my tastes often differ from day to day. Often I found I needed 3 different MMos to subscribe to satisfy my various interests, and I would prefer to see them all in one instead of needing several specialized MMOs. I generally dont like the idea of overly specializing a MMO for one gameplay sphere.

 Bring realism and conseqence into MMORPG which can bring lots of life into quests.

6. I want a HUGE world!

A simple thing. I am an explorer and I want a world big enough that I know it takes years to explore it all. VG and WOW are good in that aspect. I also dont like my world to be overly instanced. EQ2 always was kinda sucking at that. Isnt it great just to roam free?

Check. If a MMORPG doesn't give me a world feel then to me it's nothing more then a multiplayer game. 

7. I want no grind!

Sure some grind is in every MMO, but some really overdid it. Talking about WOW and the endless faction grind. That some people really rejoiced when the latest expansion brought more factions to grind is beyond me. Or when SWG introduced Jedi at first, it was a totally mindless, endless grind. Kill 100k of X to become Jedi wasnt what I had in mind to become a Jedi Knight. Same goes to gold grind to buy horses or houses. It can be difficult, but just placing a long grind lane into a game is cheap. Nothing ires me faster than those grind lists to unlock whatever good. Make it a series of dfficult quests (Trials of Obiwan springs to my mind; those were great quests.), but just setting a high bar of grind is really so mindless.

 Un check, I don't grind and never have grind, what I did was fun, challenging in short living the live of my character.

I am sure there is a ton more. Affordable housing and mounts, haircuts that doesnt look like concrete, faces that doesnt look like someone fell headon into a lawnmower, penalities which are neither meaningless nor making me cry in sleep, but those are sure my top seven ideas I can make with a short brainstorming.

So, whats your perfect MMO made of?

 Mine?......well tech. is not there yet what I want out of my MMORPG, that is why I personaly feel it's a shame to see several well known IP, where I still have not gotten a MMORPG feel from them other then seeing them turn out into pretty nice "games" but in a multiplayer way not so much in a MMORPG way, as to me a MMORPG IS about being in a virtual world, exploring, discovering, like I said in short living the live of my character in a GAMERS WAY.
 

But will try.....

Worlds that act like the world in Farcry2, yes I am spoiled but when I have played Farcry 2 and need to set foot into a MMORPG it's like taking a step back in time as in HOW worlds look, keep in mind I already said I am fully aware of tech limitations and seeing this type of graphics just been delivered I already know it might take a few more years before we might see it into a MMORPG, though we are getting closer, but want when lets say my Mage shoots a fireball that that fire from the ball has realism/physics, again take a look at Farcry2, look at HOW fire behaves in game, there are several more games I know use a more realistic way of portraing fire, though I did like it in CodWaW, but Farcry2 to me is on top of that list which is just personal.

GTA4, I don't know any other singleplayer game where it's world is as alive as it is within GTA4, so regardles if it's common time, sci-fi, fantasy when I get into a city in either it better feel like a live breathing city filled with people, again tech has it's limits for now......

Okay a MMORPG this time.....Star Wars Galaxies Crafting/Harvesting//Trading/Housing...nothing more to add.

A lootsystem like TwoWorlds, you loot what you see the NPC wearing, when looting the same items you can drag/drop the same weapon over eachother which will creat a upgraded version, and I have been upgrading allot of weapons/armor and notice some have some limited but you can go really far with the upgrading items.

I want my graphics AND animations to be or be close to that of what we now see with CGI movie/intro/trailers.

Musts for my perfect RPG: Everything you mentioned in the OP, plus:

One server. None of this sharding junk. Do what Eve did and split up the workload if you must.

Noncombat activities. Plugging stuff into a craft window and hitting craft is not a non-combat activity. It's silly.

No mob-farms. Mobs standing around waiting to be killed is boring. Tabula Rasa did this fairly well, but failed in a lot of other ways.

Time-based crafting. None of this "insert ingredients and click go" but, "This legendary sword will take 1 real life week to craft. (ala automatic stuff that happens, not 1 straight week of grinding some silly minigame)" Oh, and no drop-based junk that makes player crafting irrelevant. Compare this to Eve's crafting system. Gathering can work the same way and work offline. Let online time be concerned with fun, offline time time account for grind.

Group centered gameplay. Not mobs that wander around that are so stupidly strong that you need 6 people to gangbang, but activities that focus the player base into areas and rewards cooperation. Much like Warhammer's public quest idea where you can jump in and have at it at any time without have to form an official group, but ideally with a bit more creativity and not so many of them that they're all empty.

Skill-based progression instead of levels. Keep power levels fairly close together so you don't get cases where people can't play together because one is too powerful or one is too weak. Skill-based so people will have 50 or so progress bars to "ding" instead of that one giant bar. Improvements would come frequently, but in smaller increments. Oh, and a person gets bored being an axe-wielding barbarian they can splash into another "class" without having to restart everything over.

I have to put this in, my ultimate MMO would simply be...

Asheron's Call

However no botting, upgrade the graphics, change combat a bit so that you have more control like AOC.

The game has no classes, you choose your skills, you set your attributes and your attributes directly affect your skills.  As you gain exp you can dump that into attributes and skills to get better at whatever you want, as a result every character is unique.  Quests range from simple kill 10 of x, to the Lady Aerifall quest or Olthoi Queen quest.  The world is huge and not instanced at all, completely seamless.

Well to me that is my ultimate Utopia wishlist.

To the OP's wishlist , especially the part about wanting a "story", I suggest not an MMO but a book.

Now, hear me out, I am serious.  Story-driven players would best be served by a good fantasy novel that lays out all the narrative in linear fashion just like they want.  No keyboard or carpal tunnel problems, they can just sit back and read.  Books have better storylines than anything devs put in anyway, at least the better fantasy novels.

I really think my advice is sound, because for players that just have to have things laid out for them and have to follow some plotline, a wide open MMO world will not be to their liking.  Let these players have books and their fixed storylines instead; I think the players (readers?) will be happier.

Originally posted by pencilrick

To the OP's wishlist , especially the part about wanting a "story", I suggest not an MMO but a book.

Now, hear me out, I am serious.  Story-driven players would best be served by a good fantasy novel that lays out all the narrative in linear fashion just like they want.  No keyboard or carpal tunnel problems, they can just sit back and read.  Books have better storylines than anything devs put in anyway, at least the better fantasy novels.

I really think my advice is sound, because for players that just have to have things laid out for them and have to follow some plotline, a wide open MMO world will not be to their liking.  Let these players have books and their fixed storylines instead; I think the players (readers?) will be happier.

The story is just a part of the game amongst a lot of other things you cannot experience reading a book. I’m an avid reader of novels and other type of books but for me its clearly different activity and experience than playing a game.

You read the book, you can get immersed in the book’s story in its real or fictional world but you play the game it’s not the same.
May be it has to be with how you approach the game, I know from friends that play MMOs that there are very opposite different approaches.

In one end you will get people looking for pure competition against other players or against the challenges the game could have and don’t care at all about lore, ambience, stories to follow. They are the kind of players that rush to the level cap, that rush to get the first kill, that rush to build the first castle or win the biggest battle.

At the other end you will find the roleplayers, they use the MMO just as a tool, they care about all the things the other don’t care, lore, environment, stories are an important part of the MMOs, they are normally great readers that look in an MMO for a way to write their own stories and to challenge their friends in a different ways than the others. In between these extremes you will find all the variety of visions you can imagine.

Please don’t try to make our games poorer than they are right now. And think if it is deserved to be considered: at the end reading a book, although it’s always a way to grown, it’s a passive and individual activity while MMOs are an active and collective experience (well at least a cooperative activity in most cases).
 

Well, I basically agree with the OP on most points, but not all.  And I disagree that WoW is a perfect 10/10.  Not at all.  It is, however, a very good MMORPG and gets a lot of things right.  No doubt.

1. I want to wear cool armor/clothing.
1. I want to have lots of options to customize my characters appearance

I would not put cool armor/clothing on my must-have list.  For instance, I love CoH/CoV's character creation system and I do not miss finding new shoes or boxer shorts in that game.

So I change this point to say that I want to have lots of options to customize my characters appearance.  That may come from finding cool armor, but it can also just be in the character creating system.  Even if there is cool armor in the game, I still want plenty of good options in the character creation process.  It really bothers me when I can't get a look that I like.

2. I want combat that feels like IMPACT
2. I want a game that is more gritty/edgy.

This is a good point that I didn't really think about.  We take for granted the unrealistic 'symbolic' damage effects that we get in most MMOs.  Compare that to a game like a first person shooter -- nobody would accept a FPS where you just see numbers float over the enemy's head when you shoot him instead of seeing blood or watching the body go flying through the air when you toss a grenade at him.  Why do we accept it in MMOs? 

I would modify this a bit and say that I'd like a game that's more gritty.  More realistic combat would be part of that, but in general MMOs tend to be a little too safe and cute.  No doubt this is intentional to get a kid-friendly rating and ensure a wider audience.  But I'd like to see a developer take a chance and make an MMO that's a little more edgy.

3. I want many cool races!

This depends too much on the game's setting or IP.  The Agency, for example, shouldn't have many cool races...  that wouldn't make sense.  I'd lump this in with what I said in point #1 about having plenty of customization for the look of my character.

4. I want story!

I totally agree here, and that person who said to read a book if you want story is missing the point.  ANY game should have a great story.  Even Pong would have been better if I knew the whole back-story and motivation behind my paddle thingy's never-ending struggle to keep the dot from getting past it.  I remember when I was a kid they came out with a Pac-Man cartoon, and suddenly I found the Pac-Man video game more interesting because I had seen the story about what Pac-Man was up to and now I knew why the ghosts were chasing him.

Nothing will immerse me in a game more than a good story and it really is lacking in so many MMOs.  That's one thing that has me very interested in SW:TOR -- Bioware's insistence that they're trying to make sure the game has a great story.

5. I want difficult and easy things to do, and I want things to do that take a short time and things to do that take a long time

Certainly, and I just add things to do that take a short time or a long time, because that's not necessarily the same as difficult and easy.  It's bad when I have 20 minutes to play, but I can't log onto my favorite MMO because I know there's nothing I can do in the game that only takes 20 minutes.

6. I want a HUGE world!

There's a lot of talk about "exploration" in MMOs, but then the reality of it is that there's really not a lot to explore.  Sometimes a developers idea of "exploration" is to hide something somewhere really hard to find.  I don't think that's quite getting it.  That just becomes something that's frustrating to get to, or everyone knows about it once the first person finds it.  And exploration tends to be limited by your character level.  You decide early on that you're going to set off into the unknown and explore, and then 30 seconds later some stupid wolf 8 levels higher than you jumps out of a bush and puts your explorations to a sudden end.  A bigger world and more terrain that you can explore without having to level up a whole bunch first would be nice.

For endgame, it would be helpful for explorers if there was some randomness to the world.  I don't mean randomly generated dungeons, but like having certain quest NPCs that roam around the world and are hard to find (I don't mean just walking up and down a path), or rare creatures to encounter (and not just a rare creature that you kill for some uselss loot and that's it, but something interesting with a story behind it).  Since the world is finite, it won't be very long after I get into a game that I will eventually have explored all of the land, so I'd like it if I can explore areas that I've been to before and discover new things that weren't there last time.

7. I want no grind!

This is a given.  I would define grind as any action which I must do repeatedly, that is basically the same every time I do it, and is something I will have to repeat enough times that I get quite bored with it before I achieve whatever it is I'm trying to achieve.  The key word here being bored - it should be obvious that boredom is something to avoid in a game.

Here's one more big one that I would add

8. I want a true player-based economy in a economy-driven game

Now I think everyone has a different idea of what this is.  For me, it means that players create everything and gameplay is driven not by a series of meaningless quest after meaningless quest, but by your character's profession.  If I'm a hunter, I set off to kill bunnies not because a quest-giver NPC said he wants dead bunnies, but because I will sell their pelts to a leatherworker and their meat to a cook.  If I'm a miner, I brave a dangerous cave not because I was told to kill 30 kobolds, but because I learned that the best ore in the area can be found deep inside.  I believe playing the characters' professions would be more immersive and interesting than running through a string of pointless quests.

I would still want to see quests in a game like this, but there doesn't need to be so many and they can truly live up to the name "quest" and not feel so much like tedious odd-jobs.

Originally posted by Trissa

Originally posted by pencilrick

To the OP's wishlist , especially the part about wanting a "story", I suggest not an MMO but a book.

Now, hear me out, I am serious.  Story-driven players would best be served by a good fantasy novel that lays out all the narrative in linear fashion just like they want.  No keyboard or carpal tunnel problems, they can just sit back and read.  Books have better storylines than anything devs put in anyway, at least the better fantasy novels.

I really think my advice is sound, because for players that just have to have things laid out for them and have to follow some plotline, a wide open MMO world will not be to their liking.  Let these players have books and their fixed storylines instead; I think the players (readers?) will be happier.

 

The story is just a part of the game amongst a lot of other things you cannot experience reading a book. I’m an avid reader of novels and other type of books but for me its clearly different activity and experience than playing a game.

You read the book, you can get immersed in the book’s story in its real or fictional world but you play the game it’s not the same.
May be it has to be with how you approach the game, I know from friends that play MMOs that there are very opposite different approaches.

In one end you will get people looking for pure competition against other players or against the challenges the game could have and don’t care at all about lore, ambience, stories to follow. They are the kind of players that rush to the level cap, that rush to get the first kill, that rush to build the first castle or win the biggest battle.

At the other end you will find the roleplayers, they use the MMO just as a tool, they care about all the things the other don’t care, lore, environment, stories are an important part of the MMOs, they are normally great readers that look in an MMO for a way to write their own stories and to challenge their friends in a different ways than the others. In between these extremes you will find all the variety of visions you can imagine.

Please don’t try to make our games poorer than they are right now. And think if it is deserved to be considered: at the end reading a book, although it’s always a way to grown, it’s a passive and individual activity while MMOs are an active and collective experience (well at least a cooperative activity in most cases).
 

Well, the point I am making is that "story", not "backstory" which is fine, can sometimes lead to game design that is very forced and linear, making a player feel that the dev's are railroading them down a path.

Ex.  "Storyline"

Player follows, in order, a bunch of cutscene-type quests which lead to an instanced encounter with the witchking.

Ex.  "Backstory"

Player can learn through talking to NPC's or other players that there is a badass keep in the desert occupied by a very uber witch king that drops great gear, and the player can venture there at his or her own volition, with no guarantees of success.

I don't know about you, but I like freedom of choice (not freedom of result; results can be variable) in my gaming.  I cannot stand a game that forces contrived linear gameplay on me.  Therefore I "wince" whenever I hear players on these forums asking for more "storyline".  I guess I'm thinking of the part of the storyline that starts now and projects into the future.  I can do with out that, but am just fine with "backstory" up to the present moment.

Originally posted by Elikal

I know we all have other priorities, and with so many letdowns I thought what I would like to see in a MMO of my dreams. In no order of importance here comes my brainstorming.

1. I want to wear cool armor/clothing.

Yeah, that is one thing I wish a MMO had but there are limitations as to how many sets of cool armor can be designed over a MMO lifetime. I think a released MMO should have as a bare minimum 20 unique sets and 20 basic sets of armor for each type.  As the game progresses update on armor styles should be part of the development cycle.

(Ok sorry, I AM a fag, lol. Wardorbe just came to my mind first, lol) I am so fed up with all that dumb looking generic stuff. I want flowing mage robes like from a Chinese movie! I want dangerous looking platemails! I want armour with lots of detail and diversity! And HECK I dont want to look like everyone else or look with level 50 same as with level 10. WAR was kinda the most uncool way to dress I have seen. Whoever made that armor & robe collection must have been blind. Since I have a hang for Asian robes I tried a lot of those Asia games, but of course as games they are all horrible. Its just that people from Asia IMO have a better taste when it comes to clothing and armour, but thats of course subjective. I am just tired of the EQ2/WAR trash of wearing rags.

 

2. I want combat that feels like IMPACT

Combat styles are one thing and the blood and gore is another. A MMO that is rated 'M' should have dismemberment. Twitch style combat is great but the problem in synchronizing the server to client and can lead to problems. I was thinking about using the mouse as left button is left hand and right button is right hand. Yeah, we get to put a weapon in either hand but the feasibility of this is still questionable.

AoC was cool in that way. I just loved to hack arms and heads with my Barbarian and see innards spread all over. Ok, it doesnt HAVE to be that bloody, but I am so fed up with this symbolic combat where you click and then one ability-film is played. I want characters that walk and fight like they had weight, not like those LOTRO like featherweights. (Ok, the new LOTRO classes were better in that way. A bit.)

 

3. I want many cool races!

I like the races too but development of say eight playable races with all the armor sets and all the variations to each race can lead to a lot of work for the graphics department. There is a point in design where you have to call it good and then add the races in future expansions.

Really, the more and the more diverse the better. I loved those dragon-things from EQ2, THAT was finally something new and cool. Also loved Ratonga or Fae from EQ2 or those many VG races. Though the VG races looked a bit too plastic. I also want my characters to look unique, not 6 haircuts 5 faces trash.

 

4. I want story!

I think a story about the world you play in is more important than anything. I mean that is why some play a RPG. Many development teams are focused more on the player generated content than on the storyline because it is cheaper. A massive epic story line would be awesome and that is another goal I hope to see happen. I also hope to see more AI in the game where NPC react to you and not to a script.

The later LOTRO books and many of those instanced quest finales were really nice. I am so sick of all those "fetch me 20 boar snouts for my mom's pie" shit. I mean, ok, not every quest can be epic, but it always is kinda odd when the world is close to Armageddon and some Gnome moans about 2 rats in his cellar.

 

5. I want difficult and easy things to do!

I find a lot of people saying this and it is a good idea. I want a world where I can explore and adventure in without always fighting my way into an area and then fight my way back out. I am sick of these games they call MMORPG and yet you are in a theme park setting the RPG is missing in most of the games I have seen. Sandbox games lack the storyline and a game with a mix has yet to be released. I am not saying they're not being developed but weather the public gets them is questionable.

Often I found MMos are either too easy and streamlined, like WAR or burdened with overly complex quests like EQ2. In that term too LOTRO has a good mix of both long, difficult quests and simple quests. Not every time I want to dig myself into week-long, world shattering questlines, but when a game is only a simple theme park I am also bored. A MMo needs depth, complex things, many things, many quest types. There cant be enough spheres or gameplay, since my tastes often differ from day to day. Often I found I needed 3 different MMos to subscribe to satisfy my various interests, and I would prefer to see them all in one instead of needing several specialized MMOs. I generally dont like the idea of overly specializing a MMO for one gameplay sphere.

 

6. I want a HUGE world!

Me too.

A simple thing. I am an explorer and I want a world big enough that I know it takes years to explore it all. VG and WOW are good in that aspect. I also dont like my world to be overly instanced. EQ2 always was kinda sucking at that. Isnt it great just to roam free?

 

7. I want no grind!

Any game that is designed so you have nothing to do but kill stuff is not designed right.

Sure some grind is in every MMO, but some really overdid it. Talking about WOW and the endless faction grind. That some people really rejoiced when the latest expansion brought more factions to grind is beyond me. Or when SWG introduced Jedi at first, it was a totally mindless, endless grind. Kill 100k of X to become Jedi wasnt what I had in mind to become a Jedi Knight. Same goes to gold grind to buy horses or houses. It can be difficult, but just placing a long grind lane into a game is cheap. Nothing ires me faster than those grind lists to unlock whatever good. Make it a series of dfficult quests (Trials of Obiwan springs to my mind; those were great quests.), but just setting a high bar of grind is really so mindless.

 

I am sure there is a ton more. Affordable housing and mounts, haircuts that doesnt look like concrete, faces that doesnt look like someone fell headon into a lawnmower, penalities which are neither meaningless nor making me cry in sleep, but those are sure my top seven ideas I can make with a short brainstorming.

So, whats your perfect MMO made of?

I can't find the perfect MMO and I am tired of spending money on steaming piles so I am going to do something else. I am going to say this and hope others understand what I am saying. I am working on a game world that is going to dwarf todays games. The land mass is 16.49 billion square meters or 1,030,792.2159 square miles. The world is round so if you took off in one direction and ran at 4 meters a sec you would pass the stating point in 6.068148148 days and that is not game days. That is real days. Now this game has a lot of development time invested but the recent events here on MMORPG.COM have set me into determination mode to see this game completed or die trying.

The world is huge but the world may not be considered a game because it is a virtual world where things are persistently changing. There is a story to this world that needs completed and the story is epic. There are things to do in this world where if you so wish to never lift a sword you can live in it and adventure. You will be able to change the world and how the NPC's react to you. There are rules in this world that keep others in check. The murder system is self regulated. What you do will determine how NPC will react to you.

Drawback here is money. I know it is going to cost BIG money. I am working hard to get that kind of cash flow and I know I am going against all odds to develop this but I have to try instead of tossing it all away like I almost did and then say 'wish I had tried'

 

To those of you that encouraged me to continue I want to thank them.

 

D

1. A MMORPG with no pre paid game cards. This just attracts way too many kids deteriorating the community ala WoW. Even though kids can borrow mom and dads credit cards i firmly believe this will cut the kids playing MMO's in half if not more. Many parents are unwilling to have a monthly draw on their credit cards.

2. I want death penalties. This will eliminate casuals and unskilled players. I say unskilled in the sense that if you play badly you will get slapped for it to the point where you will either level slower than everyone else or simply quit the game. I don't care if anybody finds this retarded it is MY wishlist. Ok i don't want to alienate all casuals. Just the one who want their hands held all the way to last level.

3. I want to eliminate 20 man + raids and cut them down to two groups. This way we can cut down on the time it takes to establish a raid.

4. I want loot to drop for each person individually when a boss is killed. Everybody gets loot even if the items are not for their class. This solves the stupid /roll system and the stupid raid point system. While solving those idiotic systems there still is a reason to form groups to kill these bosses again and again. Simply because you are not garunteed the drops you want.

5. I want a completely randomized loot table for all mobs like diablo 2.  Bosses having a higher chance of dropping something good and ordinary mobs a much smaller chance. While we are at it i want the size of the loot table be equivilant of diablo 2 as well if not bigger.

6. I want there to be a big emphasis on loot AND character builds. fifty fifty.

7. I want either a character customization system that allows over 20 unique and viable builds pr class or specialized classes able to take on unqiue roles in a group. Either or is fine.

8. Optional PvP servers with consequences for dying. Not enough to discourage but enough for you to worry about dying. Exp loss could be a possibility but item loot is fine too. Not the complete inventory but maybe just 1 item you are wearing minus your weapons.

9. An awesome LFG tool. Imagine a LFG tool that works offline like an alarm. You sign up for a group to do a quest line, instance or some group based farming then just log off and have a little icon in your system tray warn you with either sound or a popup or possibly both that people have signed up for your group. This way you can do other things than stare at your screen waiting for people to group with. Hell you can even add a timer that lets you LFG at a certain time interval every day or certain days and times where you know you have spare time to play. This can be done without ever having to log into the game. Just imagine what you can do with this.

10. A crafting system where the items you create is very competitive to the drops in the game. Not surpassing the quality of super rare loot but something that makes it more than worthwhile. I really like the way crafting work in Vanguard...something a long those lines.

11. I want the game to support two boxing. For this to be a fun option for me there needs to be healing or buffing classes preferably both depending on specialization or class. I'm thinking DaoC type where you could either be a great buffer or a great healing class but not both. I want two boxing to give a player an edge. If a game allows for multi boxing ala DaoC and old school EQ then more copies will be sold as a direct result on top of increasing my fun factor.

12. I want twinking of characters both in PvE and PvP. It gives you an advantage over non twinked players. The reason why i think this is completely fair is because everybody can get a character to max level and start gathering gear for their alts. this is an option readily available to everyone. This rewards and encourages people to level up and gives another motivation to farm for items. I love farming for items.

13. Lots of buffs like increase attack speed and attack damage..more hitpoints..more regeneration etc. Buffs that matters. I don't want the game be 100% reliable on buffs but they should matter and they should decrease downtime by a lot. People should want and crave buffs because they enhance gameplay. No fluff buffs ala WoW.

14 No more gear dependant raids. You know the kind that you can only go on if you have 20.000 hp max resists and uber sword of pending doom. Gear should make a raid easier and not make it the only way of success.

That's it for now

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by Trissa

Originally posted by pencilrick

To the OP's wishlist , especially the part about wanting a "story", I suggest not an MMO but a book.

Now, hear me out, I am serious.  Story-driven players would best be served by a good fantasy novel that lays out all the narrative in linear fashion just like they want.  No keyboard or carpal tunnel problems, they can just sit back and read.  Books have better storylines than anything devs put in anyway, at least the better fantasy novels.

I really think my advice is sound, because for players that just have to have things laid out for them and have to follow some plotline, a wide open MMO world will not be to their liking.  Let these players have books and their fixed storylines instead; I think the players (readers?) will be happier.

 

The story is just a part of the game amongst a lot of other things you cannot experience reading a book. I’m an avid reader of novels and other type of books but for me its clearly different activity and experience than playing a game.

You read the book, you can get immersed in the book’s story in its real or fictional world but you play the game it’s not the same.
May be it has to be with how you approach the game, I know from friends that play MMOs that there are very opposite different approaches.

In one end you will get people looking for pure competition against other players or against the challenges the game could have and don’t care at all about lore, ambience, stories to follow. They are the kind of players that rush to the level cap, that rush to get the first kill, that rush to build the first castle or win the biggest battle.

At the other end you will find the roleplayers, they use the MMO just as a tool, they care about all the things the other don’t care, lore, environment, stories are an important part of the MMOs, they are normally great readers that look in an MMO for a way to write their own stories and to challenge their friends in a different ways than the others. In between these extremes you will find all the variety of visions you can imagine.

Please don’t try to make our games poorer than they are right now. And think if it is deserved to be considered: at the end reading a book, although it’s always a way to grown, it’s a passive and individual activity while MMOs are an active and collective experience (well at least a cooperative activity in most cases).
 

 

Well, the point I am making is that "story", not "backstory" which is fine, can sometimes lead to game design that is very forced and linear, making a player feel that the dev's are railroading them down a path.

Ex.  "Storyline"

Player follows, in order, a bunch of cutscene-type quests which lead to an instanced encounter with the witchking.

Ex.  "Backstory"

Player can learn through talking to NPC's or other players that there is a badass keep in the desert occupied by a very uber witch king that drops great gear, and the player can venture there at his or her own volition, with no guarantees of success.

I don't know about you, but I like freedom of choice (not freedom of result; results can be variable) in my gaming.  I cannot stand a game that forces contrived linear gameplay on me.  Therefore I "wince" whenever I hear players on these forums asking for more "storyline".  I guess I'm thinking of the part of the storyline that starts now and projects into the future.  I can do with out that, but am just fine with "backstory" up to the present moment.

I like freedom of choice too. Stories to follow in game, as far as they are not forced to be played, is what i was thinking about, more than the lore or background story. Really i dont see a big difference in game play in the examples you put in your post (except for the instanced part, that is not mandatory in a story line) for me the real difference will come if the gear  the witchking drops is a must for your avatar to be successful, if it happens you have no freedom doesn't matter if the encounter is leaded by an interesting story or just by a poorer talk with a random NPC. If it not happens you are free both ways.

Anyway i agree with you that forced linear game play is something i'm not going to enjoy in my game. But having more elements to play with its a pro for me, and long and hard quests story driven with good rewars i'm sure i'll love in my game. May be i could expend a week doing it and just go out to grind or hunt enemies the week after.