I am not a veteran MMO player. I didn't start playing MUDs in the 80's over a phone line that kept disconnecting and had to walk uphill every day barefoot in the snow to play (both ways). So I am not the expert on the matter, howeve I have seen quite a few MMOs die.

The first MMO death that really hit my radar was AC2. And AutoAssault was the first MMO that I beta-tested that died. It's a bummer, no question about it, and I felt bad for the MMO and the player base. However at what point do you feel that you are not ripped off?

Let's look at Auto Assault. It was alive for slightly over a year(right?). When I closed it's doors people that still played it were disappointed (the three of them). And the MMO community was slightly saddened. No matter if you like or hate the game, you have to admit it's a bummer. However I do not know anyone who would ask for a refund. Most would think, "OK, it had a good run, time to move on".

Let's look at another MMO, say Darkfall. The only reason I am picking on them is because it just came out and has some issues. I personally like the game. Imagine that Tasos (their community manager) writes on the forums tomorrow that they are not performing as expected financially and that they are closing the game. In my mind I would imagine that it would make a lot of people angry. And I personally would ask for a refund.

So my question is should MMO developers have to sign a contract stating that they will operate for a minimum time period and if yes, what do you think a reasonable time period is?

 EDIT:

Also, how long would an MMO have to run for, for you to think that when it shut down you weren't ripped off.

Please,  lets keep the discussion to all MMOs in general and lets not bash the MMOs that I brought up as examples. We all have strong opinions.

1) Exactly what contract did 'we' sign? You may agree to a EULA or ToS, but those can be voided by simply uninstalling the game and/ or cancelling your account.

2) In other words, you're asking a company to *guarantee* profitability and continued operations until some future date. No offense, but it'll never happen.

It would be nice but I doubt it'll ever happen.  As an MMO consumer you have exactly zero bargaining power as an individual, and I can't see MMO companies pledging to support their MMO for X becoming a make-or-break issue for people looking to buy an MMO (as a group) unless there's a spate of high-profile closures that directly impact enough of the community to make people (as a whole) take notice.

TLDR: Not enough people give a shit to make MMO companies care enough to promise to support their games in writing, and that's not likely to change.

They are a service provider.  The only thing that they *have* to do is to refund money that has been paid in advance for a service that will nto be maintained.  It's like buying a year of a magazine subscription.  3 months in they close up shop, they owe you the 9 months that you paid for that they will not be providing.  That is the extent of what they "owe" to any subscriber.  The same thing stands with mmo games.

Originally posted by ZsasZ

1) Exactly what contract did 'we' sign? You may agree to a EULA or ToS, but those can be voided by simply uninstalling the game and/ or cancelling your account.

2) In other words, you're asking a company to *guarantee* profitability and continued operations until some future date. No offense, but it'll never happen.

Well, I guess you have a point. However, I am commiting to paying them. I could call my credic company and ask that they reverse the charge. The game company is not going to be too happy about it. So you are telling me that if you payed for an MMO and on the third month it shuts down, you are not going to feel ripped off?

 A contract to say that they will operate for ________?

 That's nuts.

 Players should sign a contract saying that they promise not to download the game, get bored within a week, and then go make forum posts about it on here.

 As though somehow a players happiness depends on a constant emotional hand holding from the developer!

 Beau

Originally posted by premierebori

Originally posted by ZsasZ

1) Exactly what contract did 'we' sign? You may agree to a EULA or ToS, but those can be voided by simply uninstalling the game and/ or cancelling your account.

2) In other words, you're asking a company to *guarantee* profitability and continued operations until some future date. No offense, but it'll never happen.

 

Well, I guess you have a point. However, I am commiting to paying them. I could call my credic company and ask that they reverse the charge. The game company is not going to be too happy about it. So you are telling me that if you payed for an MMO and on the third month it shuts down, you are not going to feel ripped off?

I'd feel disappointed (and, depending on the circumstances, angry), but ripped off? No. It's just like when your favorite TV show gets cancelled two episodes into the season; sure it sucks, but that's life.

Edit: Actually, I can think of one exception; those poor souls who bought a lifetine subscription to Hellgate: London. I'm not sure if they got refunds, but they definitely deserved them.

"As an MMO consumer you have exactly zero bargaining power as an individual..."

You have all the bargaining power in the world, it is called your wallet.

Originally posted by Slampig

"As an MMO consumer you have exactly zero bargaining power as an individual..."

 

You have all the bargaining power in the world, it is called your wallet.

That's not bargaining. I'll bet you money that the big company CEO is not even going to know that you made a statement by not signing up. When there are tens of thousands of subscriptions you are not individuls, you are percentages. And 0.0001% is not that high.

Originally posted by Slampig

"As an MMO consumer you have exactly zero bargaining power as an individual..."

 

You have all the bargaining power in the world, it is called your wallet.

I agree ,Wait don't buy game as soon as  it comes out,Wait a month read reviews make sure it is good game.After you buy the game see that they are things you want fixing,don't resub until they are fixed.I am doing that Aoc i like the game alot but until the fix some stuff i am not playing.

You are not being force to play a video game you don't like,speak with your wallet.

"However, I am commiting to paying them. I could call my credic company and ask that they reverse the charge. The game company is not going to be too happy about it."

Isn't that the same as voting with your wallet? What difference will your 0.0001% make using your logic?

Companies only offer refunds when not offering refunds would cost them more money. SOE offered refunds for the Trials of Obi Wan expansion because they knew they could be vulnerable to lawsuits if they didn't.

For a company to make promises about what happens if they want to shut down the game would get players thinking, what if the game shuts down?  Companies don't want that.

Some companies do agree to provide service for some minimum perioid, the following is from World of Warcarft Europe Terms of Use:

---

Blizzard Entertainment agrees to provide the servers and software necessary to access the Service until such time as World of Warcraft is "Out of Publication."...

 

....In the event that Blizzard determines that it is in its best interest to cease providing the Service, or license to a third party the right to provide the Service, Blizzard Entertainment shall provide you with no less than three (3) months prior notice.

As much as I understand your frustration personally, it is just a totally unrealistic expectations. After all, a MMO is no chairty fund. Most developers LOVE their game, and enjoy making it, so trust me, they shut it down when there is really, positively no other way. A game is, above all, an economic enterprise. When it costs more than it earns, companies HAVE to shut it down. Or with what money would they pay the ongoing?

If companies would be demanded to run a MMO a certain time, a customer in return would be needed to sign to stay for a certain amount. You can cancel your sub any time, and so they can cancel the game any time in return. Sounds fair and square to me.

I generally agree however that the contract between company and customer is imbalanced. We sign a LOT of obligations with the TOS, we as gamers have many things we are not allowed, while the company has ZERO duties or obligations towards us and gamers gain ZERO rights over their character and the ton of work we put into our characters. I just dont think THAT is fair or balanced.

I love reading what i think is a great post ..but then the inevitable happens.  further down in the post It turns into a Darkfall thread and i waste a few seconds of my life all over again. Yes the game is underdeveloped, yes Tasos is a tool, yes their business sense is incomprehendable by the common person ..lets get over it shall we? Move on?

As for the rest of the post.. It is sad when a good game dies that deserved a chance. Hellgate London and Vanguard were both good games made by people that shouldn't be in the business in the first place namely Bill Roper and Brad McQuaid. Luckily for us atleast one of them decided to go into exile.

It's a loss for gamers in general every time a good game dies, however i do think these game companies and the people funding them needs to get slapped with consequences when they massively underdeliver on their promises. Over the last 10 years i have seen boxes in retail promising content on the back that isn't in the game. I have seen game developers lie in the beta about magical patches that will fix major issues come release day. Only to find out these announcements of magical patches were a smoke screen to avoid the sales to take damage. I have seen developers prioritize class balancing and adding content over fixing gamebreaking bugs. The list just goes on. If the consequences is closing down a beloved game and having the money men take heavy financial damage then i will support that. Whatever sends a message to the industry that they need to deliver on their goods i am all for even if the price is a bit high.