Ouch, Linneage 2? Really?

A game that had tons of exploits when it released in Asia, was ported over with a 9 month delay keeping all exploits intact? A game overrun with armies of Chinese bot squads using every exploit they new until the fixes for each slowly rolled in (9 months after they were made in Asia)?

You're talking about a game where hundreds of folks were trapped within the starting city because scores of low level folks with abnormally expensive weapons could one shot kill everyone trying to leave?

A game where you had exactly 4 heads for every race, 2 of each gender... where crafting basically consisted of getting a unique crafting item drop for every different item...

I know many people who played it at launch, and yet I don't know any that continued their subscription after the first period.

TR was a record for me: record of shortest time played ever in an MMO. I lasted 2 days in it. It just wasn't for me. 

That being said, it's a shame it's gone. It was different and afforded players something new. I feel bad for the fans of this game. I don't bear any ill will on this game... I didn't really want to see it go.

It's a pity, this was actually one of the better MMOs out there. Hopefully it will be back... Chances seem slim though.

Originally posted by cerebrix

 i often wonder what nc's ceo problem is.  its like he completely misunderstands the american market.

 

they've never had what i consider a successful mmo here in the states.

Erm, what? Guild Wars is developed in the US and is expected to reach 6 million sales by the end of this quarter. That's what I consider a successful MMO by far.

Anyway, it's truly sad to see Tabula Rasa go. I loved it because it was different, polished (in my experience), atmospheric and beautiful. I hate it when an MMO has to shut down.

Gone but not forgotten - the light th burn twice as bright burns half as long - and Tabula Rasa Burnt so very brightly.

Those that played, those that supported it to the end feel the space / gap / emptiness the most, those that have loved, have now lost.

BRING IT BACK!!! (boohoo)

Originally posted by dalevi1

Originally posted by wlvnspectre

 I wasn't a TR player, but am I the only one who finds this final message a little patronizing with a sprinkle of marketing damage control?

I understand that If they invest $1 doing what they normally do they are used to getting X% profit back and that TR came NOWHERE near the X% profit on investment they are used to making in their market, so I can see the buisness end of it, but if it wasn't working for you SELL IT and get your money back!

The IP needed work and it was developing new MMO markets as it expanded old ones, and there are game developers that would kill for that.

Just my 2 cents

 

 

And they could use your two cents, and mine, and that bloke up there.

NCSoft has actually made it quite apparent that they have no interest in supporting failing "western" titles, for better or worse.

I have no doubt their "western" interest lies in Aion and Champions. If those two fail, I am pretty sure NCSoft as a name in this industry as a "local" developer is toast. If you want to ensure game longevity, pick SOE's superheroes title (they'll keep the servers running in case of failure), meanwhile Aion doesn't seem to have a competitor, and lots of (uninteresting) hype.

Uh you do know that NCSoft isn't making Champions Online right?

Aion looks like it is more asian-gamer themed (to me at least).  Not saying that people in the West won't play it, but it looks very Lineage-ish and Lineage is more popular in the East than it is in the West.

 I remember actually having alot of fun in beta, running around with a shotty and knicking back big bugs. It was kinda fast paced, and alltogether fun. What killed it was in the landscape design and the dungeon design, personally.

Sad to see it die. The combat had potential in my opinion. It was just sadly "over-WoW-ified".

Exactly the same finish as Auto Assault. NC Soft is loosing customers by using the same cookie cutter business practices. They design a game...hype it up...release it and dump everyone who knows how to fix problems in the game; when it doesn't make WOW money they scrap it and start again. Read my posts to TR fans before I got a warning. Aion will be next! Follow the process again; all these games could have been sold and still be running somehow NC soft thinks they are worth ungodly amounts of money even with self admitted failure written all over them. I'd still play Auto Assault if it came back (ok I'd like the crafting fixed lol).

Originally posted by cmj108

Exactly the same finish as Auto Assault. NC Soft is loosing customers by using the same cookie cutter business practices. They design a game...hype it up...release it and dump everyone who knows how to fix problems in the game; when it doesn't make WOW money they scrap it and start again. Read my posts to TR fans before I got a warning. Aion will be next! Follow the process again; all these games could have been sold and still be running somehow NC soft thinks they are worth ungodly amounts of money even with self admitted failure written all over them. I'd still play Auto Assault if it came back (ok I'd like the crafting fixed lol).

Whilst I agree that Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa both being failures in the end (despite me enjoying the latter), I have to disagree with you on two points. 

Firstly, I very highly doubt Aion will end up being a failure. It has already been released in Korea, with release in China due soon. Over there is it extremely popular. There are hundreds of thousands of concurrent online players (with apparently millions of pre-orders if the website I viewed the figures on is to be believed). Even if the game is a complete failure over on this side of the world, Asia will ensure its success.

Secondly, whilst NCsoft may be somewhat to blame for the failures of these games, you need to remember that the actual developers are the reason for their downfall. Tabula Rasa, for example, failed due to one man alone - Richard Garriott. His total shift of game design during development cost NCsoft much more money than the game would have had he continued with the originally-planned Tabula Rasa. If NC didn't have to fork over so much cash, the game wouldn't have had to make as much cash and we may still have had the ability to play TR today.

The 2 games had exactly the same ending all GM type gear given out to everyone to have one last hurrah with massive battles etc...

Ahhhh.....The same cookie cutter has been used before on both AA and TR; I'm saying if they use it again on Aion it'll fail too. NC soft has lost customers by using this approach.

Not sure what you've heard or seen but the same hype for Aion has been used on AA and TR goggle some forms and see posts exactly the same as you see and are writing here. I have heard the claims of large numbers of eastern populations playing games but the numbers listed for servers even at their peaks don't support those claims. I think people try many games but only actually play one or two at a time.

No way was Richard Garroit the only one calling the shots on TR, you know there was an approvial process with CEO's etc...They do not give one person free reign on a game with that kind of money (90 million/billion I saw both listed at TR's demise) has one guy calling the shots (well maybe Bill Gates.).

I tried many NC soft games after AA went dark and I'm leary of their products, but I still have hope (just not a lot).

Originally posted by cmj108

The 2 games had exactly the same ending all GM type gear given out to everyone to have one last hurrah with massive battles etc...

Ahhhh.....The same cookie cutter has been used before on both AA and TR; I'm saying if they use it again on Aion it'll fail too. NC soft has lost customers by using this approach.

Not sure what you've heard or seen but the same hype for Aion has been used on AA and TR goggle some forms and see posts exactly the same as you see and are writing here. I have heard the claims of large numbers of eastern populations playing games but the numbers listed for servers even at their peaks don't support those claims. I think people try many games but only actually play one or two at a time.

No way was Richard Garroit the only one calling the shots on TR, you know there was an approvial process with CEO's etc...They do not give one person free reign on a game with that kind of money (90 million/billion I saw both listed at TR's demise) has one guy calling the shots (well maybe Bill Gates.).

I tried many NC soft games after AA went dark and I'm leary of their products, but I still have hope (just not a lot).

Garriott was calling the shots on TR. If you actually knew your stuff you'd know HE was the CEO of that division of NCSOFT! And he was the guy making the decisions. Did you know TR was scrapped half way through the dev process and they had to start over? Guess who made that decision, Richard! So it was his fault, he hyped up the game so much and when it failed he used all the money he milked from NCsoft to go to space and left the game and company.

By the way, NO game has ever cost close to a billion. TR supposebly cost around 95 million. The most expensive game ever has been claimed to be GTA4 at 100+ million

I guess many enjoyed this game ... but not as many as minimum needed to stay alive.

To me personally, this was one of the most boring, uninteresting, non fun, ... games ever. First time happened that i droped after 1 week out of 1 month of free play.

Originally posted by smut

Originally posted by cmj108

The 2 games had exactly the same ending all GM type gear given out to everyone to have one last hurrah with massive battles etc...

Ahhhh.....The same cookie cutter has been used before on both AA and TR; I'm saying if they use it again on Aion it'll fail too. NC soft has lost customers by using this approach.

Not sure what you've heard or seen but the same hype for Aion has been used on AA and TR goggle some forms and see posts exactly the same as you see and are writing here. I have heard the claims of large numbers of eastern populations playing games but the numbers listed for servers even at their peaks don't support those claims. I think people try many games but only actually play one or two at a time.

No way was Richard Garroit the only one calling the shots on TR, you know there was an approvial process with CEO's etc...They do not give one person free reign on a game with that kind of money (90 million/billion I saw both listed at TR's demise) has one guy calling the shots (well maybe Bill Gates.).

I tried many NC soft games after AA went dark and I'm leary of their products, but I still have hope (just not a lot).

 

Garriott was calling the shots on TR. If you actually knew your stuff you'd know HE was the CEO of that division of NCSOFT! And he was the guy making the decisions. Did you know TR was scrapped half way through the dev process and they had to start over? Guess who made that decision, Richard! So it was his fault, he hyped up the game so much and when it failed he used all the money he milked from NCsoft to go to space and left the game and company.

By the way, NO game has ever cost close to a billion. TR supposebly cost around 95 million. The most expensive game ever has been claimed to be GTA4 at 100+ million

Do you really believe that NCSoft gave the garriots free and unrestricted control over the most exspensive project the company has ever made?   So much control that they could just up and change the game from swords and elves to some half baked alien shooter?

I'm familiar with the change that TR underwent, but everything about it smells of a paniced board of diectors making a hasty change.  I don't think RG woke up one night and decided he wanted to change the entire game, request millions more in funds and huge time delays and NCSoft was powerless to stop him.   The final buck stops at NCSoft for tabula rasas drastic changes.  The garriots were not delivering on either version of the game, but no one in the world could have salvaged a game like this after such a drastic change in game design so many years into developement.  That change sealed the fate of the game barring a miracle.

NCSoft was the only party in a position to approve or deny changes of this magnitude.  It doesn't matter what the garriots were in charge of, they still had superiors to answer to.

 This was a good game i... i... i don't know what to say .

With the closing of TR, NC Soft has successfully lost me as a customer.  Theres nothing worse than Purchasing 2 games, both of which i spent the extra for the colector's edition on and both which I beta'd only to have them shut down a year later.  Now i've got two of the most expensive coasters i've ever purchased sitting on my office desk.  The least NC could do would be to release the source code to the public.  Its my oppinion if a game company shuts down a game that they should be obligated to release said code to the public. 

mh.... i only played it in the beta days but the great tabula rasa, created by the maker of ULTIMA *uuuh!*, didn't kick a gem outta my crown^^ the time will come, where a game like TR can survive it's hard and even better concurrents - but not with an idol that had it's best days.... sry richie :) *why didn't you stay in space hm?*

Sad to see it go , but my memories of the trial of that game were of a game that looked promising at first (trough the tutorial) with lots of action to uther botherdome .

I stopped playing the game before my trial ran out .

The game felt fast and furious first ,and then it filt like an MMO with bullets, very anti-social ,and no PVP , no PVP really just killed any hope I had to play that game , I remember sitting on top of some bunker fighting for mobs trying to do a quest to kill 100 insects , it was boring , non-rewarding and bland at its best .

Again those are only the memories I have as a newbie but maybe that turned off a lot of people.

when will the developers learn how important is PVP for a game...

It was an interesting fusion of Shooter, and third person MMO.  I liked the story as well, but something about it just kept it from being fun.  I tried it more than once, but always ended up quitting becuase it didn't meet my expectations.  I really wanted it to be great.  I really wanted a good Sci-Fi mmo to play (I'm so sick of frickin Orcs, and Elves), but this just wasn't it.  There were lots of little things I could name that I didn't like (PvP was terrible, no personal vehicles, no personal residences, the crafting system wasn't so great, repetative Mobs, etc), but like I said before ... the biggest thing was the lack of real fun.  I'm don't have much confidance in PlayNC.  I tried this, and Assault  ... both were pulled,  I tried City of Heroes/City of Villians ... too repetative,  I like Guild Wars mostly because it's free (it looks great though), although I don't really play it anymore.   

Biggest pile horse manure of a game I ever did play.

Good riddance.

No need to justify or explain my opinion because its gone.  Lets hope Conan goes the same way so the poor saps subscribed to these games actually get a clue about what a good MMO is about.

Originally posted by sadeyx

Biggest pile horse manure of a game I ever did play.

Good riddance.

No need to justify or explain my opinion because its gone.  Lets hope Conan goes the same way so the poor saps subscribed to these games actually get a clue about what a good MMO is about.

 

 

People are probably hesitant to try any mmo because so many doomspeakers spend all their time bad mouthing everyone else's preferred game .....instead of playing the mysterious and  "awesome" mmo that they apparently have found. That is if they can lower themselves long enough to appreciate any mmo...

Sad to see TR go. Was a good idea, and a lot of fun.

---

Originally posted by smut

---

Originally posted by cmj108

The 2 games had exactly the same ending all GM type gear given out to everyone to have one last hurrah with massive battles etc...
Ahhhh.....The same cookie cutter has been used before on both AA and TR; I'm saying if they use it again on Aion it'll fail too. NC soft has lost customers by using this approach.
Not sure what you've heard or seen but the same hype for Aion has been used on AA and TR goggle some forms and see posts exactly the same as you see and are writing here. I have heard the claims of large numbers of eastern populations playing games but the numbers listed for servers even at their peaks don't support those claims. I think people try many games but only actually play one or two at a time.
No way was Richard Garroit the only one calling the shots on TR, you know there was an approvial process with CEO's etc...They do not give one person free reign on a game with that kind of money (90 million/billion I saw both listed at TR's demise) has one guy calling the shots (well maybe Bill Gates.).
I tried many NC soft games after AA went dark and I'm leary of their products, but I still have hope (just not a lot).

---

 
Garriott was calling the shots on TR. If you actually knew your stuff you'd know HE was the CEO of that division of NCSOFT! And he was the guy making the decisions. Did you know TR was scrapped half way through the dev process and they had to start over? Guess who made that decision, Richard! So it was his fault, he hyped up the game so much and when it failed he used all the money he milked from NCsoft to go to space and left the game and company.
By the way, NO game has ever cost close to a billion. TR supposebly cost around 95 million. The most expensive game ever has been claimed to be GTA4 at 100+ million

---

If your going to talk so much about business, take a business course in college, you obviously don't know how these things work.

1, No company issues full bidding, altering, or ethical power to 1 person, not the president, not the CEO's, and not even the owner of NCsoft. No, it requires a Board meeting, that all CEO's, the pres and vice pres (of the company), and the owner of NCsoft must attend. Upon which the CEO of that section of the company has to convince everyone else that the change is necessary. In other words, RG had a silver tongue, but he could only request, not order them to do anything.

Lastly, *buzzer* the most expensive game WAS *drum roll* halo 3, duh. It's grand total came to 170mil. Which they made double that in 7 days of the release.

Great... Why do I see guild wars dieing in the future Q_Q

Anyways, If you are going to let a game go... Why not make one more patch -- Adds in a .txt file so you can change where you want the game to connect...

Release the server, along with the source code.  That way fans can pick up where you left off.

This really was a pretty cool game.  I really want to see more devs taking risks like this in the future.  No more click...  attack...  wait...  click...  miss...  click...  attack... crap by the droves please.

Originally posted by Kaibyaku

If your going to talk so much about business, take a business course in college, you obviously don't know how these things work.

1, No company issues full bidding, altering, or ethical power to 1 person, not the president, not the CEO's, and not even the owner of NCsoft. No, it requires a Board meeting, that all CEO's, the pres and vice pres (of the company), and the owner of NCsoft must attend. Upon which the CEO of that section of the company has to convince everyone else that the change is necessary. In other words, RG had a silver tongue, but he could only request, not order them to do anything.

Lastly, *buzzer* the most expensive game WAS *drum roll* halo 3, duh. It's grand total came to 170mil. Which they made double that in 7 days of the release.

Don't assume what I do know and don't know. I have 2 good friends who were on the dev team of TR. I think they know what they are talking about when it comes to TR more then you do. How was I talking about "so much business"? Your exaggerating...Did I say EVERY business was run that way? No, did I say RG was given control of the whole company? Again no, your putting words into my mouth. He was damn sure in control of TR though, with his brother as the President and the Korean CEO giving them whatever he wanted. So, Richards brother was the CEO/Pres of the NA branch of NCsoft so he could help RG do whatever he felt nessacary. Lets not forget RG was paid to fully oversee and design this game.

Tabula Rasa went through three complete redesigns. COMPLETE redesigns, these were decisions by RG and his brother who was the President of NCSoft North America after testing groups and in house testing proved it was no fun and was a copycat of other MMOs. There was no way RG was going to release another copycat, he desperately wanted to prove he was still a great game designer. The Korean CEO Kim thought RG was God and gave him to much power and confidence. Hence why when TR failed, the head CEO of NCsoft was chastised for giving so much money and power to the Garriotts. Inside info said no one trusted them BUT Kim and that caused alot of friction inside NCsoft.

And ding ding, your wrong about Halo 3. Like I said, GTA4 is the most costly game ever made, duh! *Buzzer* that Halo 3 is only the 5th highest costing game, far from number 1. Maybe you should do your research "since its obvious you don't know how these things work". Halo 3 only cost 30 million to make with another 30 million in marketing. You are mixing your numbers up. Halo 3 made 170 million in its first day of release, that wasn't how much the game cost. And even when Halo 3 came out it still wasn't the highest, Shenmue held that honor until GTA4.

1. Grand Theft Auto IV, $100,000,000: Only just recently obtaining the No. 1 spot – knocking Shenmue from its lofty perch – by being released at the end of April earlier this year, GTAIV is now officially the game that has been the most expensive to make. And in this current climate you will probably need your credit card to buy it. This controversial crime sandbox took 1000 people over three and a half years to complete!

And here is your Halo3 at #5

5. Halo 3, $60,000,000: This highly anticipated installment of the famous first-person shooter franchise reputedly cost just over $30 million, but due to the epic scale of the marketing/advertizing (real-time cinematics, pre-rendered CGI, even a live-action film were all made purely to advertize the game), this added a further $30 million onto the production costs. Luckily, first-day sales in the US reached astounding figures of around $170 million!

blog.knowyourmoney.co.uk/index.php/2008/08/10-most-expensive-video-game-budgets-ever/