After the community has been up in arms after the recent dev chat, ND dev clarifies some things about the game's design, calming fears more or less, depending on what you were looking for:

community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php

Except the paragraph about instant PvP contradicts that statement (The open PvP part), because having instant PvP in the simulater and getting rewarded for it will cause everyone to go to the simulater to level up, as it will be much faster then flying around and killing people for experience.

It has already been proven with Warhammer online that this system does not work, if they have quick action PvP then it needs to either have significantly lower rewards or it has to have no rewards. Otherwise players will naturally go the route of less resistance.

Hopefully they will change it in beta as they also say in that topic, but the paragraph about wanting to reward everyone seems like they are going the Blizzard and Mythic route, which does not work for a PvP focused game. If you dont funnel people into a specific set of routes with the rewards; areas of the game such as open PvP will be unpopular simply because it will be quicker to do the instanced PvP, or PvE. If PvE rewards more or the same as PvP but it is quicker or easier to PvE and get the same rewards then most wont PvP.

This kind of design has not worked for the last 4 or 5 mmos I have seen that tried it, I dont see how it will work for this one either. I think these type of mmos, ones that have experience and are by their nature linier need to either choose between focusing on PvP or PvE, going the middle ground never works because everyone wants to be rewarded equally, and everyone wants to be the best.

It needs to be made clear early on what the focus of the game is so you actually appeal to someone. Theres very few people who like both PvP and PvE.

Instanced PvP can work fine. It's simply a matter of having the rewards being low enough compared to open PvP. If you play WoW for example, you'll notice that people are generally running around in the world, questing, to level up their characters, rather than hiding in instanced content all the time. I personally have no problem with someone being rewarded from doing simulations - as long as open content remains the quickest way to achieve things, overall, and provides the best things.

Originally posted by Axxar

as long as open content remains the quickest way to achieve things, overall, and provides the best things.

This is what worries me. I'm not totally sure the ND developers get this. Mythic certainly didn't.

In WAR i have tried just leveling by doing open RvR (taking keep, BO's, kill 20 player quests) but because there weren't enough of us as most people were in instances the diminishing returns they had from killing the same players over and over made leveling in open world pvp far far inferior than leveling in instances and it was still like this 3 months after release.

I hope ND doesnt make the same mistakes.

I must say that I'm very worried, I'm still looking forward to this game but with much trepidation now. I don't see a problem with a simulator where you can practise any aspect of the game, however you must be docked and there are no rewards!

I think they'll just have to have a different server for those of us that don't want everyone leveling up in a fight club. Otherwise the only alternative is that we paint our ships with rainbows and PVE in carebear land where everyone wins and no one gets left behind whilst singing "things can only get better" and smoking weed whilst adopting an African landmine victim!

Please someone at ND just make one PvP server with only the simulator rather than instances and looting and so on. We don't want to play a game balanced out so that everyone can be happy and hug asteriods together!

I agree with Axxar. personally you should be only able to level via quests, pvp, grinding npc ships and crafting. NetDevil needs to be very careful to take the players feedback because their hard work depends on this. Over the last 2yrs I have played quite the few MMO's and all didn't impress and I haven't been playing any MMO's for months now just waiting patiently on a game that will fulfill the simple needs. The carebear audience is important yes but they won't pay for your game for years it is the hardcore space sim fan that will pay for years to play but they also require certain aspects of the game to be there and keep their interests. I am looking very forward to the beta personally and I do hope ND takes the feedback and fixes the flaws the game might have or least promise to impliment it.

Just to clarify. Currently in JGE, PVP is not open. What they mean is.. PVP in Open Space (not instanced space) will be a major part. But there will still be safezones that will prevent you from shooting other players. PVP in non instanced space will be very restricted. Making instances even more popular.

I will even go so far as comparing Open space PVP in JGE to an Instance spanning over a larger territory.

My fears havent been calmed at all. Nothing less then a PVP server will calm them.

As long as they keep it balanced, it should all work out fine. 

But that's the tricky part, right?

I can see safe zones. But in general this is a faction based game, you are 1 of 3 factions in JGE and personally the game should be open to the fact that if you get your squad together and plan a incursion into the opposing factions space you should be able to take on whomever shows up to resist you. They should keep instances to only story/plot building and let the community set the balance. I mean yes you need to watch the community to make sure factions are spread close to evenly. But I would like an open universe where you can fly and attack anyone out in the vastness of space.

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild. It seems that since WoW more and more people are playing MMORPGs that expect a single player friendly experience, unfortunately they get it more often than not. Leaving an MMO that is just a load of wank!

Originally posted by Agricola1

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild.

See: Pirates of the Burning Sea

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Agricola1

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild.

 

See: Pirates of the Burning Sea

 

 

See: $OE

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Agricola1

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild.

 

See: Pirates of the Burning Sea

 

 

 

See: $OE

See: Disgruntled Vet who can't let go

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Agricola1

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild.

 

See: Pirates of the Burning Sea

 

 

 

See: $OE

 

See: Disgruntled Vet who can't let go

See: Consumer tired of single player theme parks and bullshit artist DEVs.

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

 

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild. It seems that since WoW more and more people are playing MMORPGs that expect a single player friendly experience, unfortunately they get it more often than not. Leaving an MMO that is just a load of wank!

OMG.. I have run into another illiterate that doesn't know the TRUE definitions of MMORPG..   Where in MMORPG does it say free for all gank festival?  There are many games out there that give what you want.. They are called "PVP" servers.. You want open world pvp .. GO THERE.. The problem is I sense you are like many disgrunted children that had an old sibling that kept taking your stuff.. So now you want to use a game to seek revenge upon others..  You keep using MMO MMO MMO.... So do tell me how MMO= PVP..  I have my dictionary ready.. :)    

awwww... dont discourage the illiterate!  I enjoy laughing at their stupidity.

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

Excellent points. Eve is a great example of a game that has a PvP focus, yet has relatively safe areas(high sec).  People who want "real PvP" with full loot and other such should check out GankFall(other wise known as Darkfall), as an example of just how bad things can get.

For all of its faults(which are legion...) WoW is still a good game up to level cap. Not to mention that just about any set of Dev's would sell their souls for more than 11 MILLION players. :)

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Originally posted by Axxar

Instanced PvP can work fine. It's simply a matter of having the rewards being low enough compared to open PvP. If you play WoW for example, you'll notice that people are generally running around in the world, questing, to level up their characters, rather than hiding in instanced content all the time. I personally have no problem with someone being rewarded from doing simulations - as long as open content remains the quickest way to achieve things, overall, and provides the best things.

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Instanced PVP destroyed multimillion title that was simply destined to overthrow WOW : Warhammer Online

Going same route will make a bad joke out of JGE.

NetDevil allready made a game that tanked after mere year...you thought they would smarten up....

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Instanced PVP destroyed multimillion title that was simply destined to overthrow WOW : Warhammer Online

Going same route will make a bad joke out of JGE.

 

NetDevil allready made a game that tanked after mere year...you thought they would smarten up....

Perhaps they did learn... Open PvP is NOT what the majority of players want.  Warhammer was never destined to be a WoW killer. At this point in time, thats just not possible. The only threat WoW has is Blizzard at this point.

Warhammer has many problems. I'd not count instanced PvP as one of them.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Perhaps they did learn... Open PvP is NOT what the majority of players want.  Warhammer was never destined to be a WoW killer. At this point in time, thats just not possible. The only threat WoW has is Blizzard at this point.

Warhammer has many problems. I'd not count instanced PvP as one of them.

Yea, WAR was never going dethrone WoW, and the Mythic knew it.
The biggest problem was with WAR is that it's PvE was boring and took a back seat to Scenarios.
Scenarios ended up being the best way to Level and Gear up, making the Open World feel empty.
This made oRvR a Joke.

Oh, and there is no such thing as a "WoW killer", but it with be dethrone in time...
Just Like WoW didn't kill EQ, it just replaced it as king of the hill.

I think WAR's tier 1 scenarios were excellent. Gates of Ekrund and Nordenwatch were a lot better than the WoW battlegrounds, IMO. The quality of the scenarios decrease significantly as you progress through the tiers, however. Already at tier 2 I feel the scenarios are noticably worse/untested than WoW's BGs. Reikland Factory was awesome, though.

Reikland Factory wasn't in the game when I played.
I only played for 2 months, when the game 1st launch.
Nordenwatch and Gates of Ekrund from Tier 1 were fun.
I really enjoyed Mourkain Temple in tier 2.
In Tier 3 the only scenario people really played was Tor Arnoc.
Getting punted into the lava on Tor Arnoc got old fast.
I never made it to tier 4.

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

Actually, back in the aerly beta stages it was open PvP. meaning I could fly into your main home sector and gun you down. When they decided to make it a safe zone is when ALOT of people quit. You make it sound like any game with open PvP would be a warzone but it isn't.

When a well known pirate squad or player would enter a sector the defense channels setup by the players lit up. Many times large groups would form instantly and begin the hunt. Some of the best battles I remember happened while chasing a pirate squad back into their home sector. Just hearing a certain squad on the loose got everyone involved in the fun. Great times.

I still remember a squad ran by a guy named Druss. Just the sighting of one of his squad members would get the chat channels flowing with adrenaline and excitement. Multi faction groups would form and hours of fun would ensue. Hell, even well known miners/haulers would join in on the chase.

In other words, in a game like this the community is capable of controlling griefers and it adds a certain amount of fun on it's own. Safe zones with limited PvP zones tend to scale back the player driven policing and community involvement.