Aventurine has floated a new method of testing in this genre, it is called a paid beta.  Hey, if you can find enough fools to do it, why not.  They most certainly need the revenue.  Darkfall is most certainly NOT in a release phase.  You can argue all you want, but the facts speak for themselves.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Gyrus

The problem IMHO is that the MMORPG.com rules listed here are out of date
 

Does it meet our requirements?

1. Make sure that the game isn't already on our list. We know that this sounds simple, but there are a lot fo them and sometimes they get overlooked.
This one is okay.
2. The game must be based entirely inside of a graphical world. 3D, 2D and 2.5D games are all welcome on our list, but unfortunately we are unable at this time to provide listing for text-based MUDs.
Graphical World.  This is no longer the challenge it was.  There are tools and engines available on the internet now that put the development of a graphical world within the reach of 'advanced users' (no longer strictly the domain of professionals).  A talented teenager can develop a 3D world now.  Not that this is a bad thing - but it does mean that this rule should be re-examined. 
3. The game should have the capability to support at least 500 congruent users on a single server. This is not a reflection of the game's current subscriber count, but rather reflects the capabilities of a game's technology.
500 players?  Another area for re-examination perhaps?  500 players is nothing when you are effectively marketing globally the instant you put up a website.
4. The game must include some form of graphical common area where players can interact with one another inside of the persistent game world. This excludes lobby and chat room based interaction.
Needs definition.  I could argue that the "travel map" in PotBS is nothing more than a 'graphical lobby' for example.  Looks like The Agency is built around a similar idea too.
5. The game must make use of persistent characters. This means that you should be able to log in after logging out and find your character as advanced as you left them (or more).
Data is cheap.  Persistent Characters?  This is no more than a SAVE GAME feature?
How about a persistent presence in the game world that other players can interact with while you are logged out?
6. The game must contain some form of character advancement.
Very subjective.

*A visual representation of the game, a transparent .psd of your game's logo, a textual overview of your game, *a professional website, name of publisher, name of developer, press contact information. It can also be helpful (but is not required) to provide us with a 1,000 word + developer journal introducing the MMORPG.com readers to your game. Just a general overview of what the game is about and some information about what you feel are the stand-out features of your game.

*A visual representation of the game

3-5 Screenshots: These screenshots must be in-engine, un-doctored screenshots. They must be representative of what a player would see when playing the game.
Again, nothing too hard here.  A couple of hours on Photoshop?
Note that even Stradden admitted that while "Press Contact Information" is required this does not mean that they have to reply.

*Website Requirements

All games to be listed at MMORPG.com must have an active, professional website. The site must be completely free of pop-up ads and spyware.

In the case of an active or in-beta game, the site must also provide access to some kind of user support system including, but not limited to: developer active help / support forums, direct petition system or support contact email.
Again, Darkfall (and other recent games have exposed holes in this.
How about a site that can support demand?  (most of the time at least)
It could be argued that Darkfall does NOT meet this requirement, when their site is down actually?
As for Developer Help / Support... should include a standard of service here - support emails can be provided as much as you like if no-one ever responds?
 

I would suggest that rather than change Darkfall's status it is a good case study for a review of the rules as they stand.
In a month, join me in the suggestions forum with this post.
 

Whoa, hang on there:

Ok, first and foremost. I didn't say that the press contact didn't have to reply. They do have to reply... to US. I do not, however, expect a press contact to reply to the general public. That would be silly as they are press contacts.

 

 

av has a press contact?  is it like the journalist beta?  like, they say "yeah we are having that" but then they don't really have one? perhaps it's like individual player housing, or the freedom to place your home anyplace?  maybe it's like the advanced, super fun crafting system?  oh wait, they DO have skills/skill points that degrade over time if you don't use them... is it like that? or maybe it's like a closed beta, where they stress test and slowly increase the number of invite-only pay-to-play participants?  or is it tasos, the jack of all trades and belittler of all that do not support his folly?

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Gyrus

The problem IMHO is that the MMORPG.com rules listed here are out of date
 

Does it meet our requirements?

1. Make sure that the game isn't already on our list. We know that this sounds simple, but there are a lot fo them and sometimes they get overlooked.
This one is okay.
2. The game must be based entirely inside of a graphical world. 3D, 2D and 2.5D games are all welcome on our list, but unfortunately we are unable at this time to provide listing for text-based MUDs.
Graphical World.  This is no longer the challenge it was.  There are tools and engines available on the internet now that put the development of a graphical world within the reach of 'advanced users' (no longer strictly the domain of professionals).  A talented teenager can develop a 3D world now.  Not that this is a bad thing - but it does mean that this rule should be re-examined. 
3. The game should have the capability to support at least 500 congruent users on a single server. This is not a reflection of the game's current subscriber count, but rather reflects the capabilities of a game's technology.
500 players?  Another area for re-examination perhaps?  500 players is nothing when you are effectively marketing globally the instant you put up a website.
4. The game must include some form of graphical common area where players can interact with one another inside of the persistent game world. This excludes lobby and chat room based interaction.
Needs definition.  I could argue that the "travel map" in PotBS is nothing more than a 'graphical lobby' for example.  Looks like The Agency is built around a similar idea too.
5. The game must make use of persistent characters. This means that you should be able to log in after logging out and find your character as advanced as you left them (or more).
Data is cheap.  Persistent Characters?  This is no more than a SAVE GAME feature?
How about a persistent presence in the game world that other players can interact with while you are logged out?
6. The game must contain some form of character advancement.
Very subjective.

*A visual representation of the game, a transparent .psd of your game's logo, a textual overview of your game, *a professional website, name of publisher, name of developer, press contact information. It can also be helpful (but is not required) to provide us with a 1,000 word + developer journal introducing the MMORPG.com readers to your game. Just a general overview of what the game is about and some information about what you feel are the stand-out features of your game.

*A visual representation of the game

3-5 Screenshots: These screenshots must be in-engine, un-doctored screenshots. They must be representative of what a player would see when playing the game.
Again, nothing too hard here.  A couple of hours on Photoshop?
Note that even Stradden admitted that while "Press Contact Information" is required this does not mean that they have to reply.

*Website Requirements

All games to be listed at MMORPG.com must have an active, professional website. The site must be completely free of pop-up ads and spyware.

In the case of an active or in-beta game, the site must also provide access to some kind of user support system including, but not limited to: developer active help / support forums, direct petition system or support contact email.
Again, Darkfall (and other recent games have exposed holes in this.
How about a site that can support demand?  (most of the time at least)
It could be argued that Darkfall does NOT meet this requirement, when their site is down actually?
As for Developer Help / Support... should include a standard of service here - support emails can be provided as much as you like if no-one ever responds?
 

I would suggest that rather than change Darkfall's status it is a good case study for a review of the rules as they stand.
In a month, join me in the suggestions forum with this post.
 

Whoa, hang on there:

Ok, first and foremost. I didn't say that the press contact didn't have to reply. They do have to reply... to US. I do not, however, expect a press contact to reply to the general public. That would be silly as they are press contacts.

Now, let's go down line for line with the rationale behinf the rules, shall we?

Graphical world - I am well aware of the ease with which a graphical world is created. This rule is in play to let people know that MUDs and the like will not be listed. Why would we re-examine the rule, it's doing its job extremely well. If some teenager wants to make an MMO, they are welcome to it, and if it meets all of our criteria, we'll list it.

500 player minimum - While you may feel that this number is small, we put this in place because there are a large number of online games that do not meet this simple criteria. These, in our opinion, are not MMOs and should not be lsied here. You also didn't read the rule correctly. The game (and by extension its technology) needs to support 500 concurrent users. We're not saying that it has to have at least 500 subscribers. In factm, we don't put a minimum subscriber number on there at all and we stand behind that.

Graphical Common Area - Once again you have mis-interpreted the rule. I didn't say that the game couldn't include some form of lobby, but that there must be a place where players can gather in graphical form. PotBS has that, in towns and other places where avatars are used. This disqualifies games like Battlefield or Diablo, for example.

Persistent Characters - You said:

"Data is cheap. Persistent Characters? This is no more than a SAVE GAME feature?
How about a persistent presence in the game world that other players can interact with while you are logged out?"

Once again, you haven't thought this through and your suggestion makes absilutely no sense. persistent characters that players can build and continue building are a hallmark of the MMO genre. Therefore, they are a requirement for listing. it really is that simple.

Character advancement - you called this subjective and it really should be. This rule, I suppose, could fold into the one above, but the reeason that it's here and not more specifically worded is so that we don't get into the business of telling people how they need to advance charactders. What if we said that the characters needed to progress through levels? While that is traditionally the way of MMORPGs, we certainly don't want to discourage companies from creating other, more unique forms of advancement.

The graphical requirements: Ok, I'm going to lump all of what you said into a single subject because I'm tired of breaking it down at this point.

I've already responded to teh press contact thing. They need to respond to recognized members of the press. That doesn't mean that they have to respond to you. As for teh whole "you could fake screenshots in photoshop" argument. Yes, you can. I won't argue with that. Of course you can. That being said, a) why would you? and b) it's one of many many requirements. This one is actually there so that we have something to put in our gallery when we list the game.

It's not up to us whether a game supports the demand for it. This is how they have chosen to handle their launch. If you have aproblem with it, grerat. Don't play it. That doesn't disqualify them as an MMO.

Developer support - We simply need to see thata m echanism is in place. We have seen that with Darkfall on many occasions. If a company chooses not to avail themselves of their system or provides poor customer service, that's the realm of a reviewer or you folks on the forum to talk about. Once again, it doesn't make a game suddenly not an MMO. That being said, if this was an issue with any game for a protracted period of time, we would investigate on a case by case basis.

Also, we're not going to take a game off the list every time their website goes down. Please, give me a break.

 

Look, your complaint is that our rules aren't picky enough. The bottom line is that we don't want them to be picky. We want to list every english MMORPG that we can find, the good, the bad and the ugly. That's the purpose of our Game List, to show people what's out there. It's the realm of editorial content and forums to judge the games. being listed on the Game List doesn't mean anything other than: This company is or has produced an MMORPG. That's it and that's what these rules were designed to do.

I'm not sure why you decided to rip these rules apart, but I would suggest that maybe next time you look at the wider issue and the overall purpose of the game list.

 

 

 

You just got a piece of Jon Wood... how does it feel?

/signed

Even you fanboi's must admit this isnt a launch. It's just paid beta.

Nothing more, nothing less. No matter how much bs mr Tacos manz spins.

Originally posted by Darkstar111

 

They had two days of lag, and then fixed it.

 

Now the game works fine and is released, and sales have opened.

 

Hellfire london had to do a server reset after launch.

And thats only the most recent example of crappy MMO launches.

 

Furthermore Darkfall is not in Beta, it has some thigns that needs to be straightend out like some menu buttons that needs to be removed and minor stuff like that.

 

Other then that, and even counting that, its JUST as ready as any other mmo on release.

All MMOs are a work in progress and all MMOs get better over time, but the game is solid, its stable, it has content for every progression of the game and everything works well. Thats not a beta.

 

-Darkstar

 

 

totally ignoring the beta thing.

there is a difference between 'work in progress' and 'feature complete'.   a work in progress, in regards to MMOs, means that they have plans on EXPANDING upon the basic game.  it means they're going to add more content, on top of the basic game.  a work in progress does not mean "hey it's release feature INcomplete, it's just a work in progress".... no, that's called a craptastic release, it's called a failed release, it's called releasing a game that isn't complete, or even a pay-to-play beta.

not all games have these horrid releases.  if you've read responses to just your posts in this forum, you will have seen ample examples of games with smooth, feature complete releases.

quite honestly... if the game looks like the two dozen+ videos i've watched of it -- i'm missing nothing by not playing it.  the graphics and animations in ALL of the videos i've watched, belong in the 90s.  especially the goofy way the arms look when you're shooting a bow or mana missile... did they steal those animations from doom2? or doom even?

then you add in items like skill degradation over time... the more i read about this "game", the more videos i see, the more people posting instead of playing, the more people defending the game with NOTHING other than "it's good, i promise you, it's good", but no explanation about "stuff" in the game that's great (other than...zomg the shadows are unbelievable)... the more all of you fans, doing these things, convince me this game is a joke.

Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

 

Its an indie developer.  Please someone give me a company their game name and the amount of employees they had, whom had less tahn 30 employees who were able make a successfull launch on a sandboxed full PVP twitch combat MMORPG.

Really its getting sad to see everyone knocking this game cause of the rocky launch.  Just in terms of quality this game has is alot better than its getting credit for in terms of Price to performance.  This company went from 12 dev's to a whopping 28 and been actually developing the game in 5 years (They scratched it 3 years into then started up again 5 - 5 1/2 years ago).  They were able to make a full MMORPG in the same time blizzards 200+ employees were able to make a generic version of Diablo II 3D.

With an indie developer comes not only flaws (Compared to a corporation) and risks (Thats where "we" come in).  And in time this will be sorted out but instead of yelling at the storm to not be so windy learn that you gotta ride the waves.

 

Why should anyone give an Indie developer any more leeway than any other developer?  It should be that you are judged on what you produce.  Not on what you produce according to what you have to start with.  You produce a crappy game (whether big or indie) you should get crap for it.  You have a shakey launch (whether big or indie)  you should get crap for it.  We as consumers should expect and demand quality from both big and indie developers.

just for clarification (and for logic's sake) -- is this indie team charging a reduced price for the game/subs?  or, are they charging the going price for these games?

if it's a reduced price, sure, cut them slack, cuz they're not charging what others are charging.

Originally posted by Stradden
....

 

Look, your complaint is that our rules aren't picky enough. The bottom line is that we don't want them to be picky. We want to list every english MMORPG that we can find, the good, the bad and the ugly. That's the purpose of our Game List, to show people what's out there. It's the realm of editorial content and forums to judge the games. being listed on the Game List doesn't mean anything other than: This company is or has produced an MMORPG. That's it and that's what these rules were designed to do.

I'm not sure why you decided to rip these rules apart, but I would suggest that maybe next time you look at the wider issue and the overall purpose of the game list.

 

 

 

I have not decided to 'rip the rules apart' without reason.

And you touch on why here: ""Being listed on the Game List doesn't mean anything other than: This company is or has produced an MMORPG. That's it and that's what these rules were designed to do."

And that's my issue with the rules as they stand.

MMORPGs seem to be changing.  Quite a lot actually.  Some of the recent games are bordering more on Single Player Games with a Multi - Player Element than what *I* consider an MMO.
Note that I said *I* - because I realize my opinion is just that.

My concern is that MMORPG.com could very easily be 'over-run' by a bunch of low quality titles that sneak past the rules on a technicality.
I guess it is up to you (Managing Editor) to see that does not happen...okay fair call.

I certainly think it's worth discussing in the appropriate forum (Site Suggestions) at a later time.

(would like to discuss more now... but short of time ATM)

Originally posted by Sturmrabe

Originally posted by Stradden
...

 

 

You just got a piece of Jon Wood... how does it feel?

I am always interested in his viewpoint.  Don't always agree though.

Do YOU have something to actually contribute?

Originally posted by Saben001

I believe MMORPG.com should change the status of this game back to in development as it has not truely released yet.

My arguments:

I can not purchase the game. Therefore is it truely released?

 

There is no official announcement anywhere about it being released on the official website.

 

Having less then 20k people playing sounds more like a Beta or trial then a release to me.

 

Only 1 server. How can a game release with such little hardware?

 

No customer service or support that I can find.

 

Prove to me without a doubt that this game is avaible to the public! I can find no method to purchase this game. I have yet to see any website or brick and mortar store selling this game.

LoL will it change anything ? We are playing right now and as I said before I am having the best time in MMO ever. It is my personal opinion and somebody else can say game is meh and boring. Who cares ? Get a life and stop wasting your time on the forum of game you don't like or care about.

Originally posted by Gestankfaust

Originally posted by dark-merlin

you must be hardcore to play the Darkfall

 

obviously, you are not

 

once again....no such thing

 

MMO's cannot ever get hardcore unless you have perma death.

 

Stop acting like PvP in an MMO is anything but carebear carnage

 

Great answer tbh.

For a bonus point, which mainstream MMO once seriously considered perma-death?

Okay Stradden et al, I have a little time to respond properly so I will answer a few things you mentioned:

Ok, first and foremost. I didn't say that the press contact didn't have to reply. They do have to reply... to US.
Ah good.  That is not how I understood your reply last time.

 If some teenager wants to make an MMO, they are welcome to it, and if it meets all of our criteria, we'll list it.
This is where my opinion starts to diverge.  Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against teenagers developing games (Old Ant Attack fan) but I would prefer to see only the 'quality' contributors get through.
Yeah - quality is subjective too.  And I think we can pretty much say there seems to be a fanboi for everything - which is why I think that this criteria could use review to something more stringent?

500 player minimum - .... You also didn't read the rule correctly. The game (and by extension its technology) needs to support 500 concurrent users. We're not saying that it has to have at least 500 subscribers. In factm, we don't put a minimum subscriber number on there at all and we stand behind that.
No, I got the difference between subscribers and concurrent users.  500 just seems small to me - but I guess it depends on the game.

Graphical Common Area - Once again you have mis-interpreted the rule. I didn't say that the game couldn't include some form of lobby, but that there must be a place where players can gather in graphical form. PotBS has that, in towns and other places where avatars are used. This disqualifies games like Battlefield or Diablo, for example.
Here you misunderstood me.  As I said, some games have what I consider a 'graphical lobby (PotBS for example).  In PotBS on the Travel Map you can wander the Carribean and view other players and NPCs.  You can chat to other players there.  You can move to new locations there.  But that's all you can do there.
Someone will no doubt say "But you can fight there!"?
Well, no you cannot.  The fights take place in instances off the travel map. There is a marker on the travel map - but other players cannot view the fight from the outside.  To find out what is going on within any instance in PotBS (fights, towns etc) a player must leave the travel map and enter that instance.
How is this different from a 'lobby'?
i.e. You could view the PotBS Travel Map like this:
>Travel to Grenville
**Player 7 sails by**
>/Say HI player 7!
**You say HI to player 7**
**Player 3 and Player 4 are engaged in battle near by**
>/fight player 3
**player 3 already engaged in battle in Battle Instance 2.  Entry timer has expired**
**Player 5 sails by**
>/fight player 5
**Player 5 declines your challenge**
**Player 8 sails by**
>/fight player 8
**Player 8 has accepted.  Please wait while you are assigned a Battle Instance.** 
**Battle instance 7 assigned.** 
**Loading...**

Ah yes... but it's graphical isn't it?
Okay, so the Wii offers a graphical lobby... does that make it an MMO?

Persistent Characters - You said:

"Data is cheap. Persistent Characters? This is no more than a SAVE GAME feature?
How about a persistent presence in the game world that other players can interact with while you are logged out?"

Once again, you haven't thought this through and your suggestion makes absilutely no sense. persistent characters that players can build and continue building are a hallmark of the MMO genre. Therefore, they are a requirement for listing. it really is that simple.
I don't know how to make this suggestion clearer?
It needs to be a persistent world... but how is it persistent if characters within that world have no persistent presence?

...

It's not up to us whether a game supports the demand for it. This is how they have chosen to handle their launch. If you have aproblem with it, grerat. Don't play it. That doesn't disqualify them as an MMO.

Developer support - We simply need to see thata m echanism is in place. We have seen that with Darkfall on many occasions. If a company chooses not to avail themselves of their system or provides poor customer service, that's the realm of a reviewer or you folks on the forum to talk about. Once again, it doesn't make a game suddenly not an MMO. That being said, if this was an issue with any game for a protracted period of time, we would investigate on a case by case basis.

Also, we're not going to take a game off the list every time their website goes down. Please, give me a break.
Not what I was suggesting.  In any case - you answered this above (my bold)

Hope that makes things a bit clearer?

Originally posted by Zinzan

Originally posted by Gestankfaust

Originally posted by dark-merlin

you must be hardcore to play the Darkfall

 

obviously, you are not

 

once again....no such thing

 

MMO's cannot ever get hardcore unless you have perma death.

 

Stop acting like PvP in an MMO is anything but carebear carnage

 

 

Great answer tbh.

For a bonus point, which mainstream MMO once seriously considered perma-death?

Wasn't it SWG with jedi characters?

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

 

Its an indie developer.  Please someone give me a company their game name and the amount of employees they had, whom had less tahn 30 employees who were able make a successfull launch on a sandboxed full PVP twitch combat MMORPG.

Really its getting sad to see everyone knocking this game cause of the rocky launch.  Just in terms of quality this game has is alot better than its getting credit for in terms of Price to performance.  This company went from 12 dev's to a whopping 28 and been actually developing the game in 5 years (They scratched it 3 years into then started up again 5 - 5 1/2 years ago).  They were able to make a full MMORPG in the same time blizzards 200+ employees were able to make a generic version of Diablo II 3D.

With an indie developer comes not only flaws (Compared to a corporation) and risks (Thats where "we" come in).  And in time this will be sorted out but instead of yelling at the storm to not be so windy learn that you gotta ride the waves.

 

Why should anyone give an Indie developer any more leeway than any other developer?  It should be that you are judged on what you produce.  Not on what you produce according to what you have to start with.  You produce a crappy game (whether big or indie) you should get crap for it.  You have a shakey launch (whether big or indie)  you should get crap for it.  We as consumers should expect and demand quality from both big and indie developers.

just for clarification (and for logic's sake) -- is this indie team charging a reduced price for the game/subs?  or, are they charging the going price for these games?

 

if it's a reduced price, sure, cut them slack, cuz they're not charging what others are charging.

There is no reduced pricing...

And to the poster comparing production costs...  You might want to consider that by charging a lower initial cost and lower monthly cost they "could" get more purchases and more subs by charging less.

See post below

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

...

 

I didnt say you HAVE to take a chance, merely stating that if you buy a game, in this case this game, your taking a chance.  Like for instance i pre-ordered Auto-Assault,  took a chance and lost.  WIth Darkfall if you buy the game, either way your taking a chance even 3 months down the road.

I played in beta and i can tell you str8 up it was a very stable game.  AoC didnt have what Darkfall has in terms of alot of factors.  Yes Darkfall can take a few months before becoming all it should be, then from there grow.  But my whole thing is people basing the game Darkfall off of the actions of Aventurine not being able to support the massive load their going with the ordering and Sales. 

I can assure you the game isnt CLIENT SIDE. 

 

This argument is flawed.  Its always true that any action involves risk.  By typing here you risk suddenly dying of a stroke.  But what are the odds that it will happen?  At least I am not worried about it.

Why should we not bring in the behaviour of the developer in accessing the odds we face when considering their product.  Oh great, we have here a developer that is worst than amateur, who makes wild claims and delivers nothing to prove it.  Their long list of claims, and an empty world.  Their AI testing and now they cannot even launch the game for 5k players.  Enuf said.  And you demand that I ignore all their past record and plunge ahead with faith?  Does that not contradict your first paragraph?  Its risky and by all measures the worst case for risk management.  My money is safer in my pocket and I lose nothing, cos the game is not yet playable to me.

You assure me its a stable game, its not client side.  Ok that contradicts with a lot of other people's view.  But I come to wonder, how do you know its not client side?  You already hacked it?  While I cannot prove that it is client side is used to process mission critical tasks, I know thru my schoolday books that every distributed processing system involves some form of client side processing, or else it is a dumb terminal.  It is the allocation of tasks between client and server that makes and breaks the system.  If the game is not client side what is it?  The server paint the screen and feeds your display card with bitmaps for display?

Be realistic now. By typing in a response for all you know im a homocidal maniac with ties in to some dangerous people. By doing that I could kill anyone on a forum. Thats a risk we all could take. So really try to keep it in terms of the games.

I have actually played this game that had a world with nothing on the list. And actaully they accomplished the lot that they wanted. They currently have over 6k people on their server. This is a non-instanced server where players rome around the world and can hunt other players. NOt a game like WoW where the clusters are formed on the server in order to better handle the numbers.

The gameworld files are altered on the client side. But character, stats and clan structures are all stored server side. You can come and make all these philosophical points you want but when it comes down to it you need to bring in common knowledge of the game world.

They have a rocky start on a game they've been working on that has been in development as long as most MMO's (5 years, the previous 3 years were scartched and started a new so technicaly it is a "Different" game). They have a very small team of AMATEURs whom are mainly gamers that wanted to create a game that htey wanted to play. Their mishandling of sales is mainly because they're billing server could not handle the multitudes of orders that were being placed. Yes it is their fault for not being able to handle it but it doesnt reflect the quality of the game, just the billing aspect of the company.

WHen you play the main game files (Map, building, textures, models, animations, music so on and so forth) are stored on to your computer. When you log into the lobby you choose which character you wsiht o play that is stored on the server. The server then "finds" the character and his stats, then sends the information back to the client to process and display on the personal computer. That is where the different packets can be recognized whether they have been altered from the different of whether the server see's something happening and the client see's something happening. Like if the client were to alter one of the packets to show he got X amount of hits in and the server didnt register any hits, thats considered altering a packet which can be investigated as a hack.

You can come up with all these BS theories you want about how things work and what happens but the fact of the matter is the majority of online games are server side these days. Diablo II was server side, Diablo I was not. Dungeon Siege was not, but Darkeden is.

Now the difference between Client side and Server side applications is that the client side would have every form of information required. Server would just send and recieve information to send to the right individuals, AKA people in the same game. Server side holds and manages allt he information coming through and sends and recieves information to the clients based on what projections it makes (High ping causes the Teleport effect where players are basicaly "Slapped" around). Almost all known MMO's are server side.
 

Originally posted by Saben001

I believe MMORPG.com should change the status of this game back to in development as it has not truely released yet.

My arguments:

I can not purchase the game. Therefore is it truely released?

 

There is no official announcement anywhere about it being released on the official website.

 

Having less then 20k people playing sounds more like a Beta or trial then a release to me.

 

Only 1 server. How can a game release with such little hardware?

 

No customer service or support that I can find.

 

Prove to me without a doubt that this game is avaible to the public! I can find no method to purchase this game. I have yet to see any website or brick and mortar store selling this game.

Either way you can come here and troll, or kiss the Holy Butt Crack of Tasos, or eat popcorn. So what difference does it make?

OP did it not happen to you that things are sold out ?

You just had bad luck cause others have beaten you in buy the game and is sold out now for you ..just wait till spots are for sale again..and try not to suck at buying this time LOL

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

OP did it not happen to you that things are sold out ?

You just had bad luck cause others have beaten you in buy the game and is sold out now for you ..just wait till spots are for sale again..and try not to suck at buying this time LOL

 

 

Software is an infinite good. It can't "sell out", especially when it's download only.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

OP did it not happen to you that things are sold out ?

You just had bad luck cause others have beaten you in buy the game and is sold out now for you ..just wait till spots are for sale again..and try not to suck at buying this time LOL

 

 

Maybe you are not aware but it is digital download only purchase. You don't get the game on disks. So, being sold out in this case is basically "we aren't going to sell anymore" regardless if they were on disk or not. I have to vote with the OP. This game has not been anything that was promised. I thought AoC was a bad launch but this one is probably far worse at this point.

And don't worry, I don't plan to buy this game at this point (although I was going to at one time).

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

OP did it not happen to you that things are sold out ?

You just had bad luck cause others have beaten you in buy the game and is sold out now for you ..just wait till spots are for sale again..and try not to suck at buying this time LOL

 

 

 

Software is an infinite good. It can't "sell out", especially when it's download only.

 

It can sell out, its not just software ..it is a service tied to that piece of software too and the service can be sold out cause of various valid reasons..try to book  a table at a famous restaurant and you know what i mean ..your capacity to eat food may be infinite but to get a good spot for it  depends ...maybe the restaurant has no free table ? 

btw the piece of software cost nothing to download  ;) its accessible via torrent download for everyone ..for free..

THis game is pure BS if you cna buy it / dl it its npt released. Saying that they dont wanna sell too many copies at the same time just shows they have no clue about what they are doing.

Dont bother saying this is trolling, this is a basic thing in trade: if you cnat meet the customers demand it means you did something wrong. Either because you couldn't anticipate the demand (come on this game has had more fanboy/troll publicity that any other) or because you are clearly incompetent and shouldn't be playing around with mmos.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

OP did it not happen to you that things are sold out ?

You just had bad luck cause others have beaten you in buy the game and is sold out now for you ..just wait till spots are for sale again..and try not to suck at buying this time LOL

 

 

Exactly, just like that other MMORPG that went live and sold out..............which one was that again?

They might run out of boxes, but your streching saying they ran out of """tables"""" ?  They have one server up, they are testing.......and your paying for it......=paid beta

I just have 2 points on this topic that I've been wondering about.   Perhaps someone can answer them for me.

First Point:

How many have heard the woes from Tasos and other defenders of Tasos' "talents" that one of the big problems that Aventurine and DarkFall ran into is that they didn't anticipate the number of players interested in DarkFall.   That was the reason given for at least one of the delays... right?

That was the reason given for switching to pre-orders... right?

That was the reason for abandoning the true OPEN BETA... right?

So then, why is their answer to that above a server that currently supports 7k users? 

And those are not even concurrent users.  Their answer to a higher than anticipated player-base is a server that has 7k users... total?

How many forum users did they have in 2005?

How many forum users did they have in 2006?

How many forum users did they have in 2007?

How many forum users did they have at the begginning of 2008?

How many did they have in Oct. of 2008?

How many did they have at the end of 2008?

For those that don't know... the answer to all those is MORE than 7k. 

So... given that they knew they had more users than 7k going back years... exactly how truthful was Tasos' reasoning for the delays again? 

Second Point:

Tasos said that since they could not meet the demand they were going to do a "Limited Release". 

Tasos also said: "We won’t try to support more users than we can guarantee a good gameplay experience for..."

So my question is... Would you say that Feb. 25th and the next few days met that guarantee?  They had full control over the number that made an account and logged into the game.  Yet... it still ended up like it did. 

Sure, there have been other MMOs that have botched their Release (and NO... not ALL... some have been very, very good and polished games at Release). 

However, has their EVER been a P2P MMO that has done a LIMITED Release with the small numbers that DarkFall did... and STILL had such problems? 

Tasos said they would NOT try to support more users than he could GUARANTEE a good gameplay experience.   Was Feb. 25th a good gameplay experience?  I wonder what he considers a BAD gameplay experience? 

Just a couple things I've been wondering about. 

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Aventurine has floated a new method of testing in this genre, it is called a paid beta. 

this is a NEW thing that they pioneered?  

clue:  its more the RULE than the exception for a MMORPG release.

Originally posted by xzyax

I just have 2 points on this topic that I've been wondering about.   Perhaps someone can answer them for me.

 

First Point:

How many have heard the woes from Tasos and other defenders of Tasos' "talents" that one of the big problems that Aventurine and DarkFall ran into is that they didn't anticipate the number of players interested in DarkFall.   That was the reason given for at least one of the delays... right?

That was the reason given for switching to pre-orders... right?

That was the reason for abandoning the true OPEN BETA... right?

 

So then, why is their answer to that above a server that currently supports 7k users? 

And those are not even concurrent users.  Their answer to a higher than anticipated player-base is a server that has 7k users... total?

 

How many forum users did they have in 2005?

How many forum users did they have in 2006?

How many forum users did they have in 2007?

How many forum users did they have at the begginning of 2008?

How many did they have in Oct. of 2008?

How many did they have at the end of 2008?

 

For those that don't know... the answer to all those is MORE than 7k. 

So... given that they knew they had more users than 7k going back years... exactly how truthful was Tasos' reasoning for the delays again? 

 

Second Point:

Tasos said that since they could not meet the demand they were going to do a "Limited Release". 

Tasos also said: "We won’t try to support more users than we can guarantee a good gameplay experience for..."

 

So my question is... Would you say that Feb. 25th and the next few days met that guarantee?  They had full control over the number that made an account and logged into the game.  Yet... it still ended up like it did. 

Sure, there have been other MMOs that have botched their Release (and NO... not ALL... some have been very, very good and polished games at Release). 

However, has their EVER been a P2P MMO that has done a LIMITED Release with the small numbers that DarkFall did... and STILL had such problems? 

 

Tasos said they would NOT try to support more users than he could GUARANTEE a good gameplay experience.   Was Feb. 25th a good gameplay experience?  I wonder what he considers a BAD gameplay experience? 

 

Just a couple things I've been wondering about. 

You spend way to much time thinking sbout things that do not effect you at all.