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Originally posted by WOWthatsucks Carebear Carnage would be a cool band name. yeah fronted by CPT. Crunch
LOL!!
that rules "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....." |
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Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr
Its an indie developer. Please someone give me a company their game name and the amount of employees they had, whom had less tahn 30 employees who were able make a successfull launch on a sandboxed full PVP twitch combat MMORPG. People on this forum keep throwing around the words, "indie developer" like its a get-out-of-jail-for-free card for any mistakes the company makes. Someone on this forum once said that Aventurine is an indie company charging mainstream prices. If they're going to charge mainstream prices, they should be treated like a mainstream company. Credits to the guy who said this, because I couldn't agree more. Let's use the Funcom steak/hamburger analogy for example... Funcom refered to Age of Conan as a steak, and World of Warcraft as a hamburger. People prefer steaks over hamburgers, yes? So people should prefer Age of conan over World of Warcraft. The problem is that steaks cost more than hamburgers, but Age of Conan costed as much as World of Warcraft. So what does that make Conan? A hamburger trying to act like a steak, and failing. I'm going to try and incorporate Darkfall in to this analogy. Think of hamburgers as indie companies, and steaks as mainstream companies. Darkfall is a hamburger pretending to be a steak. It's trying to do all of the things a steak can do, but it fails because it's a hamburger. Why does it fail? Because a hamburger is a hamburger. When it tries to be something else, it'll mess up. When Aventurine tried to act like a mainstream company, charging mainstream prices for their product, charging mainstream monthly fees, they accepted the responsibilites to be treated like a mainstream company/steak. But the problem is that now people are going to start comparing a greasy, sick hamburger with ketchup and mustard to a tasty grilled steak with A1 sauce. If the hamburger/indie company can't handle being compared to steaks/mainstream companies, then maybe they should go back to acting like what they really are, an indie company/hamburger. Charge indie prices for their game ($20.00-$30.00), and indie monthly fees ($5.00-$10.00). Once they start doing that, they'll have an excuse for all of their slack. EDIT: Anyone else get hungry all of a sudden?
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Originally posted by Saben001
This game never released. Fanbois just buy all the crap Aventurine is feeding them. An intelligent observer would tick off the points you mentioned and conclude, negative... there was no release. Just a bunch of suckers duped into paying Tasos's bills for a couple more months. Darkfall still has major league scam potential. |
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You should have pre-ordered the game if you really wanted to play it, I mean I wouldn't - and I'm sure you wouldn't either, since the way you put out your post. I'm sure the game is soon available through some direct download store or something if you really want it so much, I doubt you can get it from any store shelf directly. And isn't Eve Online only 1 server? The "so little hardware" means it has clusters of machines to work as a one big server, I think Aventurine is aiming for something like that. And unfortunately the release was like it was, I'm sure you'll get over it. I'm sure MMORPG.com don't have to prove anything to you, you just have to use some of that common sense. The game is out, though the state of the game is bit "unfinished". :)
C'mon, we all know Darkfall is what it is. Bitching, moaning and wallowing the same old news isn't going to change anything. Even us pro-Trolls know it. You should rest now, get your shit out of here and wait for another messed up mmorpg-launch.
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Im not saying their an INdie developer so dont give them ANY crap. But alot of peeps are basing their idea of the game based on the launch of the game. Yes their having a rocky launch and having trouble dealing with the massive amounts of hits their game is taking. But the fact of the matter is they're doing the best in their power to deal with it. Now I know for a fact that as a business their not handling it as well as they should. But in time people will learn to realize they're taking a huge risk (just as much as people buying the game are taking a huge risk) as trying to break the mold (There are other games, mortal online, earth rise, and others I might not know about that are finaly coming out). And they SHOULD be given crap because of their failure to handle this. But at the same time alot of people dont understand what they were able to create with the low employee base they have. |
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I disagree we don't need to take any chances! BTW it also worries me about it being client sided as no company has managed to prevent blatant haxxors (we are not talking about bugs, or exploits). |
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Originally posted by CreDiBles
I didnt say you HAVE to take a chance, merely stating that if you buy a game, in this case this game, your taking a chance. Like for instance i pre-ordered Auto-Assault, took a chance and lost. WIth Darkfall if you buy the game, either way your taking a chance even 3 months down the road. |
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They had two days of lag, and then fixed it.
Now the game works fine and is released, and sales have opened.
Hellfire london had to do a server reset after launch. And thats only the most recent example of crappy MMO launches.
Furthermore Darkfall is not in Beta, it has some thigns that needs to be straightend out like some menu buttons that needs to be removed and minor stuff like that.
Other then that, and even counting that, its JUST as ready as any other mmo on release. All MMOs are a work in progress and all MMOs get better over time, but the game is solid, its stable, it has content for every progression of the game and everything works well. Thats not a beta.
-Darkstar
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Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr
I didnt say you HAVE to take a chance, merely stating that if you buy a game, in this case this game, your taking a chance. Like for instance i pre-ordered Auto-Assault, took a chance and lost. WIth Darkfall if you buy the game, either way your taking a chance even 3 months down the road.
This argument is flawed. Its always true that any action involves risk. By typing here you risk suddenly dying of a stroke. But what are the odds that it will happen? At least I am not worried about it. Why should we not bring in the behaviour of the developer in accessing the odds we face when considering their product. Oh great, we have here a developer that is worst than amateur, who makes wild claims and delivers nothing to prove it. Their long list of claims, and an empty world. Their AI testing and now they cannot even launch the game for 5k players. Enuf said. And you demand that I ignore all their past record and plunge ahead with faith? Does that not contradict your first paragraph? Its risky and by all measures the worst case for risk management. My money is safer in my pocket and I lose nothing, cos the game is not yet playable to me. You assure me its a stable game, its not client side. Ok that contradicts with a lot of other people's view. But I come to wonder, how do you know its not client side? You already hacked it? While I cannot prove that it is client side is used to process mission critical tasks, I know thru my schoolday books that every distributed processing system involves some form of client side processing, or else it is a dumb terminal. It is the allocation of tasks between client and server that makes and breaks the system. If the game is not client side what is it? The server paint the screen and feeds your display card with bitmaps for display? |
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tombear81
Novice Member
Joined: 3/17/07
"Meeza spullon and gramma is ou me ma taut me. Yousa no write be nasta to ma speelin n a grumma !" |
Aventurine.. redefining terms such as :
But yeah OMGWTFBBQ category does this game fit into? Is a game released if only a few people can actually purchase it ? Is it released if basic elements sucy as stress testing have not yet been performed ?
If I was feeling cruel I'd say but DF in the "point & laugh corner"... but my cold is dieing and I am feeling mroe constructive. Maybe we need an indie MMO section... whatever indie is defined as |
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Well at least they removed the Apply for Beta button lol. When www met dot , they then stumbled upon Secret Society , wich happened to be a Guild , wich in turn told dot about the net . |
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Originally posted by Saben001
I am playing the game. If this is, indeed, an unfinished beta version, I simply cannot imagine how great the release version will likely be...
(No, this is not a beta version and the game, already, is far ahead, in terms of fun, than any other online game that I have personally ever played.) |
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Originally posted by nekrothing What makes you think that, being an indy company, they can afford lower prices ? Let me explain: take two games, one is an AAA title with a 50 millions dollars budget, the second one is an indy title with a 1 million dollars budget. Both games are sold at the same price: 50$. The first game sells 1 million copies , while the second game sells 20K copies. If you calculate the net income, you'll find that they both exactly cover their development cost. But the indy game had to be sold at a full AAA price to achieve that. If it were sold at 20$, it would have lost a lot of money, and the company would have closed. That's for the box price / fixed fee. What about the monthly fee ? Do you think hardware, bandwith, customer support, etc.. is cheaper for indies ? "No, but they need less servers and bandwith", will you say. True, but they also have less players to pay for those servers and bandwith, so it compensates. It's all relative. The "cost per player" ( amount of money each active player is costing to the company ) is roughly equivalent, whether this player is playing on an AAA title or an indy title. It would make little business/logic sense to reduce the price just because you're an indie IMO. |
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Whatever the 'true' story is about DF, with all of the negativity and problems with release, I think that DF will struggle. Gamers tend to be impatient, and a lot of games have never fully recovered bungled releases. A lot of games have done poorly even with decent releases. With DF the negativity seems to be coming even faster and earlier than in other releases. That doesn't bode well. Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC. |
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Originally posted by Mortemia
Eve's server: Virtually unlimited amount of players DFO's Server: Official 10k Cap aka No comparison I need a new MMO world to call home as Tom Chilton keeps destroying them |
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Originally posted by Saben001
Here's the bottom line: The game has launched. The company told us that the game had launched and people are paying to play it at the full monthly rate. The other things that you mentioned: lack of availability, population, servers... while those may be valid concerns, the simply don't impact the game's classification. Those are business decisions made by a company. In the end, if people are paying full price for your game, you've launched your game. Cheers, |
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Originally posted by Nyast What makes you think that, being an indy company, they can afford lower prices ? Let me explain: take two games, one is an AAA title with a 50 millions dollars budget, the second one is an indy title with a 1 million dollars budget. Both games are sold at the same price: 50$. The first game sells 1 million copies , while the second game sells 20K copies. If you calculate the net income, you'll find that they both exactly cover their development cost. But the indy game had to be sold at a full AAA price to achieve that. If it were sold at 20$, it would have lost a lot of money, and the company would have closed. That's for the box price / fixed fee. What about the monthly fee ? Do you think hardware, bandwith, customer support, etc.. is cheaper for indies ? "No, but they need less servers and bandwith", will you say. True, but they also have less players to pay for those servers and bandwith, so it compensates. It's all relative. The "cost per player" ( amount of money each active player is costing to the company ) is roughly equivalent, whether this player is playing on an AAA title or an indy title. It would make little business/logic sense to reduce the price just because you're an indie IMO.
So you will walk into a motorway diner/rundown cafe/take a way joint and pay 5 star resturant prices without a quibble? Because that's what you are saying I need a new MMO world to call home as Tom Chilton keeps destroying them |
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Originally posted by Lashay
So you will walk into a motorway diner/rundown cafe/take a way joint and pay 5 star resturant prices without a quibble? Because that's what you are saying
If the food is just as good or better, yes I will. |
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Originally posted by Gyrus Whoa, hang on there: Ok, first and foremost. I didn't say that the press contact didn't have to reply. They do have to reply... to US. I do not, however, expect a press contact to reply to the general public. That would be silly as they are press contacts. Now, let's go down line for line with the rationale behinf the rules, shall we? Graphical world - I am well aware of the ease with which a graphical world is created. This rule is in play to let people know that MUDs and the like will not be listed. Why would we re-examine the rule, it's doing its job extremely well. If some teenager wants to make an MMO, they are welcome to it, and if it meets all of our criteria, we'll list it. 500 player minimum - While you may feel that this number is small, we put this in place because there are a large number of online games that do not meet this simple criteria. These, in our opinion, are not MMOs and should not be lsied here. You also didn't read the rule correctly. The game (and by extension its technology) needs to support 500 concurrent users. We're not saying that it has to have at least 500 subscribers. In factm, we don't put a minimum subscriber number on there at all and we stand behind that. Graphical Common Area - Once again you have mis-interpreted the rule. I didn't say that the game couldn't include some form of lobby, but that there must be a place where players can gather in graphical form. PotBS has that, in towns and other places where avatars are used. This disqualifies games like Battlefield or Diablo, for example. Persistent Characters - You said: "Data is cheap. Persistent Characters? This is no more than a SAVE GAME feature? Once again, you haven't thought this through and your suggestion makes absilutely no sense. persistent characters that players can build and continue building are a hallmark of the MMO genre. Therefore, they are a requirement for listing. it really is that simple. Character advancement - you called this subjective and it really should be. This rule, I suppose, could fold into the one above, but the reeason that it's here and not more specifically worded is so that we don't get into the business of telling people how they need to advance charactders. What if we said that the characters needed to progress through levels? While that is traditionally the way of MMORPGs, we certainly don't want to discourage companies from creating other, more unique forms of advancement.
I've already responded to teh press contact thing. They need to respond to recognized members of the press. That doesn't mean that they have to respond to you. As for teh whole "you could fake screenshots in photoshop" argument. Yes, you can. I won't argue with that. Of course you can. That being said, a) why would you? and b) it's one of many many requirements. This one is actually there so that we have something to put in our gallery when we list the game. It's not up to us whether a game supports the demand for it. This is how they have chosen to handle their launch. If you have aproblem with it, grerat. Don't play it. That doesn't disqualify them as an MMO. Developer support - We simply need to see thata m echanism is in place. We have seen that with Darkfall on many occasions. If a company chooses not to avail themselves of their system or provides poor customer service, that's the realm of a reviewer or you folks on the forum to talk about. Once again, it doesn't make a game suddenly not an MMO. That being said, if this was an issue with any game for a protracted period of time, we would investigate on a case by case basis. Also, we're not going to take a game off the list every time their website goes down. Please, give me a break.
Look, your complaint is that our rules aren't picky enough. The bottom line is that we don't want them to be picky. We want to list every english MMORPG that we can find, the good, the bad and the ugly. That's the purpose of our Game List, to show people what's out there. It's the realm of editorial content and forums to judge the games. being listed on the Game List doesn't mean anything other than: This company is or has produced an MMORPG. That's it and that's what these rules were designed to do. I'm not sure why you decided to rip these rules apart, but I would suggest that maybe next time you look at the wider issue and the overall purpose of the game list.
Cheers, |
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 if by hardcore you mean you must be a hacker/cheater/exploiter/macroer i think i'll pass |
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Oh, you pissed off Stradden enough for him to make some uncharacteristic typos. You can say alot about the man, but his grammar is quite good, better than most atleast. Silly thread though. The game is released, at a limited rate though, but that doesn't mean anything. |
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Originally posted by slask777
I wouldn't say [issed off so much as that I have a metric ton of work to do today and didn't have time to be careful on a forum post I hadn't scheduled myself to make :)
Cheers, |
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Originally posted by Stradden
I wouldn't say [issed off so much as that I have a metric ton of work to do today and didn't have time to be careful on a forum post I hadn't scheduled myself to make :)
just take the game off mmorpg.com, make the fans and the trolls happy. |
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damian7
Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/20/06
why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid? |
Originally posted by Pale_Fire
ditto to you. could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please? |
Originally posted by Stradden
Thanks for clearing this out Jon! These silly "petitions to remove this and that from mmorpg.com" pop out every once in a while and everytime the main reason to remove a game is just because the OP doesn't like it, can't afford it or he just begs for some kind of attention. I really like MMORPG.com to be a unbiased gaming site where I get info from every game under mmorpg category, I don't want other users to select which game is good enough to be listed in MMORPG.com's gamelist.
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