Here is SignusM, fresh from his diatribe about how bad trolling is on the Darkfall forums, trolling the WoW forum. I bet he doesn't even see the irony. 

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Mokwee

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Syyth007

Yeah, WoW get's bashed on alot because it's the "top dog"

No, it gets bashed a lot because its never had a single original idea in its entire time of existing, and gets far more praise than its worth by people who've never played any other MMO. 

 

My god go back to your darkfail forums... You belong there... Thought you were busy enough defending that piece of crap to have time to come here and attack WoW.

I'm not attacking it, I'm just answering the question. Why, do you want to name a unique feature for me? 

Fully controllable seige engines and destructable walls in a non-instanced zon,  a fully seamless world with almost no loading screens,   multi-person mounts,  interesting player spec talent trees,  well designed quest system,  interesting travel options (zeppelins, boats, flying mounts, underground trams).  Flying bomber missions, interesting quests such as jumping between flying mounts whilst circling on a mountain while fighting other riders...

I could go on...

Every single little thing you mentioned was done on a larger scale in Dark Age of Camelot except for flying. 

Also, almost all games were seamless before WoW. WoW made zones and instances popular, unfortunately. 

Siege engines and destructible keeps were the bread and butter of Dark Age of Camelot.

 

As for the person who said a unique feature of WoW was its fun? Eh, not for the large majority of people who have been playing MMOs before 2004. Its just the same old song and dance. Its EverQuest with less soul (and a bit more polish)

 

I hadn't finished, keep reading.  WoW is still unique in all that stuff I described, it's implemented to be far more fun and intuitive than DaoC ever was and DAoC is a PvP themed game with imbalanced RvR and its biggest fans have long abandoned it.

You cling to uniqueness as the only reason why WoW is a poor game, but it's unique in the way it does everything better than games that have their little 'twists' to make them seem interesting but don't actually pull of such a grandiose effort as WoW.

It has more soul than EQ does right now, I can tell you that.

 

I never, EVER said it was a poor game. I just said why people bash it. I myself, dislike all the legions of WoW players that try to force their opinions on the rest of the MMO world, saying its the best system even thoug they've experienced no other. 

You're wrong.  The players who haven't played another MMORPG just play WoW without saying anything.  Those of us who HAVE played other MMORPGs and are of the opinion that it is the best, are the ones that say it.

You guys just assume we haven't played other MMORPGs like you would assume a guy who owns a Ferrari must be compensating for small manhood or something :p

It's called denial mate, but don't worry - you've probably just allowed yourself to get caught up in the anti-WoW attitude of this site.  Game developers, game critics and gamers who have voted with their wallets to make WoW the most successful MMO are the ones who decide who is king, and WoW is undoubtedly the king atm :p

Well in the offset WoW is not for me. I dont like trendy things. I didnt think a can of hairspray a day and leg warmers in the 80's was cool. I didnt think stone washed jeans with the holes in them in the 90's was cool. I dont think Paris Hilton or Barak Obama are cool. So Im not in with the masses on this sort of thing. WoW is too generic and over done for me. I tend to prefer games that focus on story and have a story to tell really. That doesnt mean i think WoW sucks or that I hate it or anything, it just means it's not my cup of tea. Oh and I just have to give an observation here but with the "WoW is the holy of holies" praise coming from Recant I am inclined to think there is an alterior motive there. Like maybe they're on Blizzard's payroll or something because many of those areguments are a bit over the top.

I don't see anyone pushing opinions down anyone's throat on this thread.. I've played MMOs, and MUDs before there were MMOs, for a very long time.. And I can still get enjoyment out of WoW.  It is the most polished, and currently, has incredible amounts of content.. If you want to PvP, you can, you want to just quest Solo, you can, you want to dungeon crawl with a small group of friends, you can, if you want to be comepetitive in pvp you have arena tourneys, if you want to raid.. we all know there's plenty of that.  WoW basically took many different things from different MMOs, polished them to a shiny glint, took out the frustration and downtime of many gameplay elements, and implemented an easy accessible game with a plethera of things to do.  If you don't get caught up in the min-maxing, fotm type mindset, it's very easy to get alot of fun out of WoW in a short amount of time.

It's human nature for those to get caught up in the "hate" of the largest and most successful.. You can see it in every facit of civilization.. People hate on Microsoft.. Big hotel chains.. Whatever becomes fashionable at the moment.  To say the only people who enjoy WoW are those that are new to MMOs is very ignorant..  I have many friends in real life that play WoW, that came from a similar background as me (as in, played MMOs well before WoW).  There are still plenty of other veteran mmo gamers that play WoW.  The only one pushing their opinion, seems to be you, since you are passing off your opinion as fact.. when it's really still just an opinion.  WoW didn't "kill" mmos, they just brought them mainstream.  They evolved the genre.  If you don't like quest  based DIKU Mmos, on't worry, everyone won't just "copy WoW" (something people often say, butI don't believe is true, but thats a whole other subject), as the genre is currently evolving, and always will (or it will crash and fail, due to being stagnent).

Originally posted by fcazares

Well in the offset WoW is not for me. I dont like trendy things. I didnt think a can of hairspray a day and leg warmers in the 80's was cool. I didnt think stone washed jeans with the holes in them in the 90's was cool. I dont think Paris Hilton or Barak Obama are cool. So Im not in with the masses on this sort of thing. WoW is too generic and over done for me. I tend to prefer games that focus on story and have a story to tell really. That doesnt mean i think WoW sucks or that I hate it or anything, it just means it's not my cup of tea. Oh and I just have to give an observation here but with the "WoW is the holy of holies" praise coming from Recant I am inclined to think there is an alterior motive there. Like maybe they're on Blizzard's payroll or something because many of those areguments are a bit over the top.

So, it's more of principle than anything else? I try not to be so narrow-minded and conservative. And about Recent being on Blizzard's payroll? A bit paranoid, aren't we? I doubt they would have to sink to those lows, since their playerbase is doing quite fine without preaching the good word on forums.

At the time WoW came out, it was pretty unique.. Sure, it was a DIKU style mmorpg, but at the time, it brought MANY new things to the mmo genre.  If you don't believe WoW didn't bring ANY creative ideas, and gameplay elements to the mmorpg genre, then you obviously never bothered to learn much about WoW..  Some of these ideas were somewhat similar to elements in other games, but they improved greatly upon them, and placed their own spin on them.  Blizzard said they wanted to take the fun of an MMO, but remove the tedium, which I blieve they did a great job doing.  Sure, LOTRO coppied WoW's formula, as did EQ2 after WoW's release, along with SWG's NGE, but before WoW, the only really similar game was the original EQ.. Which as a long time EQ player, I can say they're very much different in execution of gameplay.  UO was very different then WoW, AC was very different then WoW, as was DAOC.. So what MMOs made WoW's release so overdone?

*edit* just noted the "Just like EQ, with less soul" which I have to disagree with..  EQ was great at the time it was out, but I believe some of the people look back with rose tinted glasses.. Sure, I like the fact they promoted grouping, but it was annoying as hell some days not being able to do what you wanted to do when you wanted, wasting hours looking for a group somewhere.. EQ pvp and general class balance make's WoW's pvp and class balance look perfect.. Not to mention screwed up itemization, nor the fact EQ kept trying to become more "WoW" like after WoW's release to keep it's hemoraging population.  Very similar to how some people look back at the 50's, 60's, 70's as "golden eras" (whichever generation they probably grew up in) or how after every generation of home gaming consoles come out, they complain they're not as good as the last ("atari/c64 was better then NES, NES was better then SNES, SNES better then N64, etc").  There are also other people that realize that people are just looking back at the past in "nostalgia" and it really wasn't that much better in the past.. just different

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by fcazares

Well in the offset WoW is not for me. I dont like trendy things. I didnt think a can of hairspray a day and leg warmers in the 80's was cool. I didnt think stone washed jeans with the holes in them in the 90's was cool. I dont think Paris Hilton or Barak Obama are cool. So Im not in with the masses on this sort of thing. WoW is too generic and over done for me. I tend to prefer games that focus on story and have a story to tell really. That doesnt mean i think WoW sucks or that I hate it or anything, it just means it's not my cup of tea. Oh and I just have to give an observation here but with the "WoW is the holy of holies" praise coming from Recant I am inclined to think there is an alterior motive there. Like maybe they're on Blizzard's payroll or something because many of those areguments are a bit over the top.

 

So, it's more of principle than anything else? I try not to be so narrow-minded and conservative. And about Recent being on Blizzard's payroll? A bit paranoid, aren't we? I doubt they would have to sink to those lows, since their playerbase is doing quite fine without preaching the good word on forums.

No, it's not a principle thing. The game is just not for me, and I believe it is overrated just like many fads are. On the second point there again the answer is no. There is no paranoia. I could care less if they hire people to go to forums where new players could be attracted by postiive reviews. I would not be at all surprised if they did, after all they are in the business to maximize profit just like every other big company out there. I was just pointing out that the language being used was over the top and sounded a bit cultish.

I started playing mmos in 2000 and I played wow at first i played in dec 04 and didnt quite like it quit after lvl 20 or so, came back with the burning crusade and got a shaman to 70 and then got another shaman to 80 when WoTLK came out (first shaman was draenei switched to horde not long after hitting 70 though haha).

And I gotta say the 2 times I came back to play I enjoyed playing WoW a lot, I wouldnt say it's the best mmo ever but as for most fun right now I would have to agree and obviously a lot of other people agree because it has a large fan base.

How is a successful video game "a fad"?  Isn't that a bit like saying "Windows is a fad", "Mario bros. is a fad", etc.. It's a GAME, not a friggin' lifestyle..  I also don't see how the OP was cultish in the least..  He's never played before, the game had no lag, he thought everything was well designed (which at the moment, it has the most cash infused into it then any other mmo, so I would imagine it would be)..  Or is it the part about him buying the expansions and game cards?  I honestly don't see it..

I don't know, it may just be my opinion, but it seems on many online gaming forums, it seems to me that the "fad" or the more "popular thing to do" is bash WoW.  There are plenty of idiots, but there are pleny of great, helpfull people also.. There are many first time mmorpg players that are young, but there are also plenty of older, experienced players as well.  I see you play LOTRO, which I also played for about 6 months, and don't see how you could hate everything WoW based, seeing as LOTRO borrows heavily from WoW's gameplay elements, although I will concede it has it's unique parts, but not seeing the similarities between LOTRO and WoW would be kind of funny.

PS- Blizzard has millions of dollars in advertising, they wouldn't need to hire an amateur forum "shill" to promote their game on here.. No offense to the OP, but the post wasn't exactly inspiringly written.  I think to honestly believe that is pretty ignorant, or niave... Or maybe you are like those "conspiracy" people who see the hidden motive behind everyone's actions.

Originally posted by Mokwee

I played EvE for a bit....actually a long time but it came to the point that I was getting quite a bit mad at the leadership in the Alliance I was in through my corp... Was when the Northern Coalition was involved in their wars with something-nate i cant remember its quite vague but I remember I was there the night BoB invaded and well...alot of stuff happened that night, hit and runs camps blah blah but I was just like... Ugh this sucks...

 

Especially after another week/2weeks of massive fleet formations alliance wide of A-LOT of people to literally do maybe 2 jumps...perhaps 3...sit for an hour...do nothing... and go back and disband... I just said yea, screw this.. Its obvious either these guys are on the take or just don't know how to do crap... So, off I went. I HATE empire so I went south. Ended up getting involved in IAC for a little bit but then that also hit the fan when that alliance literally broke apart from the inside. Witnessed it, was on vent when it happened and was just like, wow... thats.. interesting...

 

In any case, Up to that point, it was becoming like a second job. I know you can just "not play" and skill up but to be active in 0.0 you need to be in everyday... representing... I had no problem doing that but it just started feeling like a second job I had to pay for... So I sold my character and just quit.

 

When I heard what happened to BoB I almost wet myself from sheer astonishment. I was so overjoyed. I only hope it was a "real" surprise to the BoB leadership. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when they logged in... Would have been a riot. I almost started playing again but figured, nah...

 

Back to WoW though... It's just simply amazing. I love how it looks. I wanted to play a mage because I bet the spells would be awsome to look at eye-candywise but I hit lvl 8 and its like someone placed a concrete wall in front of me. I just couldn't lvl. So I said screw it and went paladin. Always liked Paladins and so far its great!

Just a heads up Mokwee:  I believe mages get Frost Nova at level 10 which will make fighting and leveling a lot easier.  It's a vital crowd control skill that basically plants the mob to the ground, not allowing it to get within melee range of you (most of the time).  Anyway, enjoy WoW.  My only advice is to not delete any alts, because no matter how many bad decisions you make, or how bad you think a character is, or how stuck it seems you are, everything in this game is reversible.

the first time you ever play wow it will proberbly be the best game you ever have or will play, wich is why "VANILAZ WAS TEH SHITS YO", once you hit max level and have played for a while it looses alot of its apeal, though its still a great game, possibly the best our there atm

Originally posted by fcazares

Well in the offset WoW is not for me. I dont like trendy things. I didnt think a can of hairspray a day and leg warmers in the 80's was cool. I didnt think stone washed jeans with the holes in them in the 90's was cool. I dont think Paris Hilton or Barak Obama are cool. So Im not in with the masses on this sort of thing. WoW is too generic and over done for me. I tend to prefer games that focus on story and have a story to tell really. That doesnt mean i think WoW sucks or that I hate it or anything, it just means it's not my cup of tea. Oh and I just have to give an observation here but with the "WoW is the holy of holies" praise coming from Recant I am inclined to think there is an alterior motive there. Like maybe they're on Blizzard's payroll or something because many of those areguments are a bit over the top.

Honestly, you sound like every emo girl I have ever met.  I'll tell you what, just because its popular, doesn't automatically mean its bad, or im guessing in your case, uncool.  Since when was it trendy to like Barack Obama? lol

actually most people just do the whole recruit a friend thing buy the game for 20 bucks and isntanced grind  with a max level and you have a level 60 in 2 days not even

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

I've played the game a lot more than you.  I also played back before TBC, so unlike you, I would know the difference between a populated city and an empty one.

At least half the servers are DeathTards.  Very few people roll characters from scratch, there is little reason to when you can just pick the retard proof class that starts at 55.  A few players doing the pointless achievements (ripoff from WAR by the way) does not even come close to how populated the zones used to be even during TBC, let alone vanilla WoW.  People used to actually roll alts then, now the only alt even worth rolling is a pally, that is if you did not that already via RAF after patch 3.0.

Try using your brain before commenting.  Yes, you actually have to do that when you are not playing the joke that WoW has become.

 

Having played since beta I can certainly say that the old cities are not as densely populated as in teh pre-BC days.  However, the relative level of population is still the same.  Darnassus is still a ghost town while Ireonforge and Stormwind are stil quite populated around the AH and bank areas.  Of course your definition of 'no people' and 'many people' might be vastly differnet from mine. 

Anyway, the first month after release the starting zones were more populated then they would ever be later pre-BC or post-BC.  The question is not whether they are heavily populated but whether they are populated enough for a new player to do the content smoothly.

The idea of achivements is older than  MMORPGS.  The first time I saw it implemented in a MMORPG was CoH. 

The 'WoW does nothing original' crowd is mising a key idea.  It does not matter whether any individual element is completely original or not.  The way they are put together and interact well is original.  The uniqueness and originality of WoW comes from it's overall, interlocking design.  A painting can be quite original even if other painters previously used the colors blue, green and red.

Originally posted by SignusM 

Every single little thing you mentioned was done on a larger scale in Dark Age of Camelot except for flying. 

Also, almost all games were seamless before WoW. WoW made zones and instances popular, unfortunately. 

Siege engines and destructible keeps were the bread and butter of Dark Age of Camelot.

 

As for the person who said a unique feature of WoW was its fun? Eh, not for the large majority of people who have been playing MMOs before 2004. Its just the same old song and dance. Its EverQuest with less soul (and a bit more polish)

Ok then smart guy.  If DAOC had all of those features, why isn't it the raging success that wow is?  On paper it obviously has all the elements to get the job done, but why didn't it?  Even now people who are burned out on wow should be flocking to daoc for all of those features done on a larger scale, but where are they? Perhaps there is something more to a game than having a list of features and being unique on a handful of them. 

Thank you for being the self elected speaker of people with mmo experience prior to 2004.  We are all very happy that you act as a proxy for our opinions to make yourself feel validated.  Thank you! thank you! thank you!

WoW does no individual part better than any other game, but overall the game is put together better than any other, has more variety of gameplay than any other, and is more accessible than any other.  And that is 4+ years after its launch.  Various editions of this game are 4 out of the top 10 PC games for last month.  It's basically a money-printing machine for Blizzard.  And the reason for that is that more people find WoW fun than other games.  Certainly that isn't true for most "gamers", but WoW blasted through that and became a mainstream home entertainment product, not just for "gamers", kind of like Wii did for console gaming.

Originally posted by Novaseeker

WoW does no individual part better than any other game, but overall the game is put together better than any other, has more variety of gameplay than any other, and is more accessible than any other.  And that is 4+ years after its launch.  Various editions of this game are 4 out of the top 10 PC games for last month.  It's basically a money-printing machine for Blizzard.  And the reason for that is that more people find WoW fun than other games.  Certainly that isn't true for most "gamers", but WoW blasted through that and became a mainstream home entertainment product, not just for "gamers", kind of like Wii did for console gaming.

Auction House was very smooth in WoW.  Dungeons were well done in vanilla WoW, especially end game. BRD, Strat, Scholo were pretty amazing.  End game content was very big in WoW.  There were a few things that were exceptional.  Other than that, the rest was tweaked down to cater to a larger playerbase.  But overall, the polish was very noticeable and set a standard.  It's not the best MMO I have played, but it was good & consistent.  The fact that it had a strong population while the game I felt was the best did not, made me stay with WoW (till last year)

And contrary to your belief, WoW is not the money-printing machine you think it is.  Blizzard does well with it, but nowhere near the "OMG $15*11.5million =billions upon billions a year profit".  The whole company has been at a net loss the last two quarters and you can't blame Activision for it as they have been doing better than Blizzard over the last year.

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by Novaseeker

WoW does no individual part better than any other game, but overall the game is put together better than any other, has more variety of gameplay than any other, and is more accessible than any other.  And that is 4+ years after its launch.  Various editions of this game are 4 out of the top 10 PC games for last month.  It's basically a money-printing machine for Blizzard.  And the reason for that is that more people find WoW fun than other games.  Certainly that isn't true for most "gamers", but WoW blasted through that and became a mainstream home entertainment product, not just for "gamers", kind of like Wii did for console gaming.

 

And contrary to your belief, WoW is not the money-printing machine you think it is.  Blizzard does well with it, but nowhere near the "OMG $15*11.5million =billions upon billions a year profit".  The whole company has been at a net loss the last two quarters and you can't blame Activision for it as they have been doing better than Blizzard over the last year.

Of course not all 11.5 million are paying 15 a month.  Even if you assume that 8 million are in Asia and 3.5 million are between Europe and NA (which is much lower than it probably is, it's probably more like 5m in Euro/NA), that's 52.5m per month in revenue, or 630m per annum.  Added to that are the much smaller revenues that they get from Asia.   Added to that are the box sales (LK sold 4m at $30 per unit, which is another 120m in revenue to add to the already large pile .. and that doesn't even take into account the other three WoW titles that are in the top 10 PC games and are generating box sale revenue).  That's a hell of a lot more revenue than anyone else makes from MMOs.  Sure, Blizzard is carrying a lot of costs, but it would be very hard for Blizzard not to be profitable with a revenue stream, including Asia, of 800m + per year.  Do you seriously think Blizzard is losing money on WoW?

But of course, WoW loses money, the game is failing, the population is less than 1m oiutside of Asia and Blizzard is on the verge of bankruptcy.  Of course.

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Originally posted by Recant
You're wrong.  The players who haven't played another MMORPG just play WoW without saying anything.

---

I am one of those wich usualy only read these forums and i rarely do post, and yes majority wich play the game , just play the game they dont even read forums, at least they rarely do read unofficial forums.

Majority of my ingame friends or RL friends wich play wow dont check unofficial forums, they rarely do check official ones.

People wich enjoy the game , just play it and thats all.

WoW is not my first, is actualy my second , i played a free korean mmo before for a year ,and yes i still feel some nostalgy for open pvp and PK and castle siege, and yes after 3 years of wow i do feel i need a change.

I even tryed to quit wow few times now since last year, but each time i got back to wow couse no game outthere worth to spend money into.

Lucky me i have a RL friend wich can afford more and he can trow money on new games and he buyed both AoC and WAR so i had a chance to see them and try them and i was disapointed, i got LOTR and EVE trials couse i was looking really for something to play , and none of them made me happy so i ended resubcribe to wow , just couse only options i had is to play CS:source or watch TV , or watch my girlfriend play wow ( wich she enjoy a lot, lucky me i know).

I was waiting for Aion since last year now, and got disapointed it got delayed , i spamed all my friends about it , but now i am starting to lose faith in NCSoft too , and for sure wont ever preorder a game after seen lately how bad releases had the last games during last year and this year.

I want , i really want a new game , and i already start to understand that my new game will probably be the new Blizzard mmo.

For me over the years , blizz proved is the most serious company.

Of course not all 11.5 million are paying 15 a month.  Even if you assume that 8 million are in Asia and 3.5 million are between Europe and NA (which is much lower than it probably is, it's probably more like 5m in Euro/NA), that's 52.5m per month in revenue, or 630m per annum.  Added to that are the much smaller revenues that they get from Asia.   Added to that are the box sales (LK sold 4m at $30 per unit, which is another 120m in revenue to add to the already large pile .. and that doesn't even take into account the other three WoW titles that are in the top 10 PC games and are generating box sale revenue).  That's a hell of a lot more revenue than anyone else makes from MMOs.  Sure, Blizzard is carrying a lot of costs, but it would be very hard for Blizzard not to be profitable with a revenue stream, including Asia, of 800m + per year.  Do you seriously think Blizzard is losing money on WoW?

 

But of course, WoW loses money, the game is failing, the population is less than 1m oiutside of Asia and Blizzard is on the verge of bankruptcy.  Of course.

Yes, keep rationalizing away.  You should write a whole report and send it to Blizzard/Activision shareholders.  Maybe that will compensate for the deteriorating stock price.

While you talk BS, I simply read their financial reports.  Sorry, but the facts remain as such:  The company has lost money for two quarters, due to the merger and development costs.  So WoW is not the huge moneymaker everyone thinks, it is a profitable operation but not without its risks.  But now that the game has become a total joke, it's just a matter of time.  That's why they are moving on to a new MMO, scaling down support and trying to milk it for as much as they can.