actually was thinking about playing EVE.But being that the new stuff coming is gonna change a lot for new starting players and the debate about it scares me a bit..

I mean players saying they will blow all noobs out of space because of the changes sorta scares me..

bobm111 

... that logic is pretty odd. where are people saying this?

protip: highsec space is not being removed in the expansion.

Originally posted by bobm111

actually was thinking about playing EVE.But being that the new stuff coming is gonna change a lot for new starting players and the debate about it scares me a bit..

 

I mean players saying they will blow all noobs out of space because of the changes sorta scares me..

 

bobm111 

Don't be afraid, If you don't want to pvp you can get around being blown up.

My brother in law stays 100% in high sec and has a ball.

He runs missions in fleets and runs mining Ops with his casual corp.

in four months hes logged in everyday, he loves the game.

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Originally posted by SpyridonZ

While I agree with what you said, I do think there is a major problem for Eve. It's not that you can "never catch up", but the major problem is that many players can not experience what the game is "really" like on their trials. Just raising learning skills to what all the "new player guides" advise will take up nearly an entire trial. This does not include that new players actually DO need to raise some base-skills to be effective, in PvE or PvP.

Agreed, focusing only on Learning skills during the trial is likely not the right way to go. You can always come back to them if you decide to stay beyond the trial.

For PvE there is the issue of combat pilots not being able to efficiently make cash for the first month or 2, and a huge amount of (boring) mission farming.

I disagree. My first few months playing I had no trouble making enough ISK via missions to replace and/or upgrade my ships as I advanced through each level of missions.

For PvP money isnt really an issue as much as frigates being one of the harder ships to efficiently pilot, not knowing which skills to train because they dont know what role they want to fit, and not being able to do anything solo as a new player. Corps are not too welcoming to characters on trial, and sure there is FW but a noob has to do quite a bit of grinding before they can join - which means skilling for PvE for a couple weeks if they dont have help (although buying the box will address this next month...)

I'm not sure what experience you've had with Corps not excepting newer players but it's too bad that you apparently didn't have a good time with it. This also simply was not my, nor the majority of folks, experience. There are many many corps out there specifically for newer players and the training/supporting of such.

They are changing the "new player experience" in the new expansion which is going to start youa t only 50k SP, but you will get double SP until 1.6mill. I think this is not going to help things at all and only make this problem worse.
Right now you can make a new character and be somewhat-efficient in a frigate. Youll have a few lvl 5 skills, which leaves you ready for t2 small weapons or drones depending on race. Drone interfacing for example gives 20% damage per point, so lvl 3 alone is 60% damage boost. While t2 weapons wont be a huge boost of damage for a new player, the real issue here is that they are far cheaper then going with Named weapons, and money is an issue for new pilots.
Once the expansion drops... they lose all of this. Sure they have double SP, but it will be approx TWO WEEKS before they have those same lvl 5 skills! This is actually NERFING new characters effectiveness! This is going to hurt trial accounts VERY badly. Their basically losing 750-850k SP. And sure, after that htey will have double SP for the next 800k. But think about it - if you make a new character new, you will be at 1.6mill approximately the same time as that new player reaches 1.6 mill! The only difference is they will be less effective for their first few weeks!
The game would be much, much more popular and welcoming to new players if they addressed this problem, and I think it is very sad that their "fix" is addressing the wrong problem, and making the real problem worse.

When I started the "new player experience" was non-existent. What did we get, 8000 SP to start? I mean seriously... You'll get no sympathy from me on this one. I remember being thrilled when I finally broke 1 Million SP....

---

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Originally posted by Baseline

I have to agree with this. So many times I've tried to get into eve as a new player, and just got discouraged...
It would help if solo pvp was somewhat feasible, but it's not, and especially not for the new player. New players in MMO's don't want to jump into some guild as a noob because they bring ZERO VALUE. They want to get their feet wet in PvP first by themself and gain some value and then bring it to a group of people so they don't feel like some homeless bum coming into someones house. When you go into a game like WoW, or EQ2, or any other MMO, you can without much care just go jump into a BG, or go outside the safe city limits and get your feet wet... In EVE, for noobs, it's like "uh, I gotta config all this stuff, and I gotta find where to go, and uh, I need help? WHAT?!!!?? *cancel trial*".
There's a reason there's endless posts of people saying they've tried the trial multiple times. It's because the game has great potential, but it needs to be tweaked for noobs.

---

Originally posted by kovah

 

---

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

 

While I agree with what you said, I do think there is a major problem for Eve. It's not that you can "never catch up", but the major problem is that many players can not experience what the game is "really" like on their trials. Just raising learning skills to what all the "new player guides" advise will take up nearly an entire trial. This does not include that new players actually DO need to raise some base-skills to be effective, in PvE or PvP.

Agreed, focusing only on Learning skills during the trial is likely not the right way to go. You can always come back to them if you decide to stay beyond the trial.

For PvE there is the issue of combat pilots not being able to efficiently make cash for the first month or 2, and a huge amount of (boring) mission farming.

I disagree. My first few months playing I had no trouble making enough ISK via missions to replace and/or upgrade my ships as I advanced through each level of missions.

For PvP money isnt really an issue as much as frigates being one of the harder ships to efficiently pilot, not knowing which skills to train because they dont know what role they want to fit, and not being able to do anything solo as a new player. Corps are not too welcoming to characters on trial, and sure there is FW but a noob has to do quite a bit of grinding before they can join - which means skilling for PvE for a couple weeks if they dont have help (although buying the box will address this next month...)

I'm not sure what experience you've had with Corps not excepting newer players but it's too bad that you apparently didn't have a good time with it. This also simply was not my, nor the majority of folks, experience. There are many many corps out there specifically for newer players and the training/supporting of such.

They are changing the "new player experience" in the new expansion which is going to start youa t only 50k SP, but you will get double SP until 1.6mill. I think this is not going to help things at all and only make this problem worse.
Right now you can make a new character and be somewhat-efficient in a frigate. Youll have a few lvl 5 skills, which leaves you ready for t2 small weapons or drones depending on race. Drone interfacing for example gives 20% damage per point, so lvl 3 alone is 60% damage boost. While t2 weapons wont be a huge boost of damage for a new player, the real issue here is that they are far cheaper then going with Named weapons, and money is an issue for new pilots.
Once the expansion drops... they lose all of this. Sure they have double SP, but it will be approx TWO WEEKS before they have those same lvl 5 skills! This is actually NERFING new characters effectiveness! This is going to hurt trial accounts VERY badly. Their basically losing 750-850k SP. And sure, after that htey will have double SP for the next 800k. But think about it - if you make a new character new, you will be at 1.6mill approximately the same time as that new player reaches 1.6 mill! The only difference is they will be less effective for their first few weeks!
The game would be much, much more popular and welcoming to new players if they addressed this problem, and I think it is very sad that their "fix" is addressing the wrong problem, and making the real problem worse.

When I started the "new player experience" was non-existent. What did we get, 8000 SP to start? I mean seriously... You'll get no sympathy from me on this one. I remember being thrilled when I finally broke 1 Million SP....

---

 

 

---

Originally posted by Baseline

 

I have to agree with this. So many times I've tried to get into eve as a new player, and just got discouraged...
It would help if solo pvp was somewhat feasible, but it's not, and especially not for the new player. New players in MMO's don't want to jump into some guild as a noob because they bring ZERO VALUE. They want to get their feet wet in PvP first by themself and gain some value and then bring it to a group of people so they don't feel like some homeless bum coming into someones house. When you go into a game like WoW, or EQ2, or any other MMO, you can without much care just go jump into a BG, or go outside the safe city limits and get your feet wet... In EVE, for noobs, it's like "uh, I gotta config all this stuff, and I gotta find where to go, and uh, I need help? WHAT?!!!?? *cancel trial*".
There's a reason there's endless posts of people saying they've tried the trial multiple times. It's because the game has great potential, but it needs to be tweaked for noobs.

---

I'm just curious... What happens in WoW when a new player join a BG... well, I guess they wouldn't be new cause you have to be level 10 before you can join the first BG... But, anyway... let's say that "new" player stands back at the flag and defends it solo... What happens to him when 2 or more enemies show up? Oh, that's right - SLAUGHTERED. Fair enough... So, new player runs outside of any city all by their lonesum to "get their feet wet" and who should turn the corner? 15 level 80s from the enemy faction... Yep. Your comparrisons fail my good man.

 

New players can (and DO) play plenty of roles in corps in PvP. Yes, personally I would like more solo PvP in Eve as well, and it does exist but to find it you have to learn to evade the zergs that are running everywhere.

It's only been said a thousand times but @ your: "It's because the game has great potential, but it needs to be tweaked for noobs." Eve does not hold your hand. Eve is harsh and unforgiving. If that does not appeal to some people then some people have the simple option of not playing. If you recognize that Eve is a great game then you suffer through and learn what you need to do so without waiting on the Obama admini... err, Eve developers to give you a hand-out...

gl hf
07

 

 

I just want to clear a couple things up.

I think some people who never played may have gotten the wrong idea from my post. I DO think Eve is a game that new players should try - I didnt mean to discourage anyone.

But I would tell new players not to get discouraged in their first week or two playing - because at times, its sad to say but it IS easy to get bored or discouraged. Especially depending on what advice you get. That's why I gave the learning skill examples.

I want player to be fully aware that their trial will not be a fair representation of the game, because the problems I discussed are mainly during that time. I encourage you guys to stick with it and just think of the time as training where you have to learn what you can. Getting discouraged and leaving without looking back would be a shame, because by the time your trial is up you are likely getting close to learning what the game is really about.

In response to the money topic - sure you will be able to afford ur new ships etc as you work your way up ratings.... that is until you get to lvl 3's. Then you will be getting your faction standings faster then your getting the money to afford those nice new battlecruisers AND rigs. It becomes a pretty heavy grind at that point. It is fairly discouraging for new players to have to grind missions for a whole month or 2 until they can be efficient in level 4's - and it will be much longer then this if you choose a race other then Caldari or Gallente. Once you get in to level 4's BS prices are crazy, plus you have to insure it, plus you have to get rigs - it comes out to near 150mill. That is a HUGE grind for a player doing only lvl 3's that give only a couple mill per mission. Learning lvl 4's you will lose the occasional ship as well, which isnt so bad if it wasnt for the rigs being so expensive, and if your just getting in to lvl 4's those rigs ARE going to be neccessary. As with the rest of Eve, corps help alot in this instance.

Also many new players go in to the game for PvP but think they have to PvE until they can make the cash to PvP but that is not true in Eve. My suggestion is play to PvP from day 1 - plan on doing the Faction War missions instead of normal ones.

About the "new player experience thing", well if you start playing with the current one, or if you start playing in the new one in the coming expansion... I just want to make it clear to players on trial that their trial time will NOT be a good representation of what Eve really is.

I do believe one of the problems with the game is that players cant have fun on the trial, and I do think the "new experience" their adding addresses the wrong problems as I've already discussed. But I didnt tell you this so you would not play. I'm telling this so that you are aware and so you hopefully stick with the game past that, so you can experience the real fun the game has to offer.

About Corps, if there are more "noob friendly" corps nowdays that as great. But when I first played - far before FW was added and all that - it was pretty bad because any Corps that were oriented towards PvP (the reason I was playing the game) required 8-12mil SP or more. I stayed in 0.0 my first couple months and had chats with everyone I ran to and everything, and none of them had any Corps I would have been allowed to join with my SP. I also remember one common rule was no trial players allowed in Corps. That said, I hope there is more noob friendly corps, especially w/ the expansion and re-release of boxes coming up.

Corps will greatly enhance your game experience in Eve . Even if you are typically a solo player (I typically am too) find one anyway. You can make it clear you like to solo - but it is good to have people to talk to because just being in a corp with them allows them to help you even if your not playing with them at the time. They can give really good advice, they can help guide you with fittings, they may even do something like hook you up with some blueprints and teach you how to make some cash with them on a manufacture alt so you can  get established for making YOUR OWN money easier - I seen this happen a few times and it is great for new players who do not want to feel like they have to "rely on their corp mates for money".

Even if you are a new player who plans on checking out the Faction War - still find a corp. Just find a Faction War corp. For anyone who is interested in Eve's PvP, if you CANT find a corp for whatever reasons - just learn how to join the faction war and sign up as soon as possible, because you will quickly see what Eve is about. PvP players typically wont be entertained by missions for long - but once you get a taste of war and work with some war buddies the game will start to dramtically change.

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

I just want to clear a couple things up.

I think some people who never played may have gotten the wrong idea from my post. I DO think Eve is a game that new players should try - I didnt mean to discourage anyone.

But I would tell new players not to get discouraged in their first week or two playing - because at times, its sad to say but it IS easy to get bored or discouraged. Especially depending on what advice you get. That's why I gave the learning skill examples.

I want player to be fully aware that their trial will not be a fair representation of the game, because the problems I discussed are mainly during that time. I encourage you guys to stick with it and just think of the time as training where you have to learn what you can. Getting discouraged and leaving without looking back would be a shame, because by the time your trial is up you are likely getting close to learning what the game is really about.

I agree

In response to the money topic - sure you will be able to afford ur new ships etc as you work your way up ratings.... that is until you get to lvl 3's. Then you will be getting your faction standings faster then your getting the money to afford those nice new battlecruisers AND rigs. It becomes a pretty heavy grind at that point. It is fairly discouraging for new players to have to grind missions for a whole month or 2 until they can be efficient in level 4's - and it will be much longer then this if you choose a race other then Caldari or Gallente. Once you get in to level 4's BS prices are crazy, plus you have to insure it, plus you have to get rigs - it comes out to near 150mill. That is a HUGE grind for a player doing only lvl 3's that give only a couple mill per mission. Learning lvl 4's you will lose the occasional ship as well, which isnt so bad if it wasnt for the rigs being so expensive, and if your just getting in to lvl 4's those rigs ARE going to be neccessary. As with the rest of Eve, corps help alot in this instance.

Not so sure I would agree here. Saying that its a grind to just be able to do level 4s. Im sorry but 2 months time is not much considering the cash flow from 4s which IMO is too much money made too easily.  You wouldn't expect a 2 month old player to go out to 0.0 and rat hunt triple BS spawns and survive would you ? As far as rigs are concerned they are NOT needed. Sure they are nice to have if you have the money to spend but they are most definitely not needed. My mission setup typhoon doesn't have rigs and it works great. If you want to use rigs though a shield tanked ship is a good choice, shield resist rigs are cheap (5mil approx) and free up some hardener slots for other modules.

You make more money in missions from the salvage and loot you sell. Even the lower frigate mission npcs can drop modules worth a couple of mil each. Plus all the shit loot refines very nicely into minerals to build your own ships or sell for the money. Now throw in spending your loyalty points and selling those items gets you money too. Don't just look at what your agent is going to give you, that is usually just a fraction of the rewards you gain

Money from missions comes from:

1. Agent reward
   
2. Rat bounty (if you are fighting pirate faction npcs and not faction npcs)
   
3. Tags from faction npcs since you get no bounty (some are worth quite a bit)
   
4. Salvage, even if you can't salvage find someone to team up with and let them get the salvage for a small fee of course.
   
5. Loot. Both good items to sell and refinables. Don't forget a lot of the loot you might save for use later when you need to refit.
   

Out of all of those I would say the actual agent reward of cash is the smallest percentage of what you will make from missions.

By the time you get to level 4s you should have made plenty of money to buy your level 4 ship. You will make more than enough if you do all the things I said.

Also many new players go in to the game for PvP but think they have to PvE until they can make the cash to PvP but that is not true in Eve. My suggestion is play to PvP from day 1 - plan on doing the Faction War missions instead of normal ones.

I half agree here. Though you can start pvping day one as a new player you really do need to spend some time learning the game and making a little cash (more learning the game over collecting some money). If you have some friends or get into a corp that helps and supports new players then go right ahead and jump into pvp day 1.

About the "new player experience thing", well if you start playing with the current one, or if you start playing in the new one in the coming expansion... I just want to make it clear to players on trial that their trial time will NOT be a good representation of what Eve really is.

Agreed. Eve changes as you play and learn it. And I don't mean in terms of patches and game changes. I mean more in terms of how you see the game as time goes on.

I do believe one of the problems with the game is that players cant have fun on the trial, and I do think the "new experience" their adding addresses the wrong problems as I've already discussed. But I didnt tell you this so you would not play. I'm telling this so that you are aware and so you hopefully stick with the game past that, so you can experience the real fun the game has to offer.

About Corps, if there are more "noob friendly" corps nowdays that as great. But when I first played - far before FW was added and all that - it was pretty bad because any Corps that were oriented towards PvP (the reason I was playing the game) required 8-12mil SP or more. I stayed in 0.0 my first couple months and had chats with everyone I ran to and everything, and none of them had any Corps I would have been allowed to join with my SP. I also remember one common rule was no trial players allowed in Corps. That said, I hope there is more noob friendly corps, especially w/ the expansion and re-release of boxes coming up.

There are more and more new player friendly corps out there all the time. Sure some corps have SP restrictions but thats their choice. Just like joining a guild in WoW, you won't be getting into a high end raiding guild at level 10. Hell most raiding guild won't even look at you unless you actually have some of gear out where ever they are raiding at that time. So really no different in Eve than WoW that way. Its a guild choice and not a game choice. As far as trial account go, well yeah no one takes in trials. Too easy to make spies with them and since most new players run away taking in trial account players is a waste of time. Unless of course the corp is one dedicated to taking in new people and helping them.

Corps will greatly enhance your game experience in Eve . Even if you are typically a solo player (I typically am too) find one anyway. You can make it clear you like to solo - but it is good to have people to talk to because just being in a corp with them allows them to help you even if your not playing with them at the time. They can give really good advice, they can help guide you with fittings, they may even do something like hook you up with some blueprints and teach you how to make some cash with them on a manufacture alt so you can  get established for making YOUR OWN money easier - I seen this happen a few times and it is great for new players who do not want to feel like they have to "rely on their corp mates for money".

Agreed. Even if you like to play solo it's best to find a corp friendly to that play type. They are out there.

Even if you are a new player who plans on checking out the Faction War - still find a corp. Just find a Faction War corp. For anyone who is interested in Eve's PvP, if you CANT find a corp for whatever reasons - just learn how to join the faction war and sign up as soon as possible, because you will quickly see what Eve is about. PvP players typically wont be entertained by missions for long - but once you get a taste of war and work with some war buddies the game will start to dramtically change.

100% agree here.

I just wanted to add some things here. I agreed with most. Im not sure if understood you completely on the money issue and that's why I added so much there.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Not so sure I would agree here. Saying that its a grind to just be able to do level 4s. Im sorry but 2 months time is not much considering the cash flow from 4s which IMO is too much money made too easily.  You wouldn't expect a 2 month old player to go out to 0.0 and rat hunt triple BS spawns and survive would you ? As far as rigs are concerned they are NOT needed. Sure they are nice to have if you have the money to spend but they are most definitely not needed. My mission setup typhoon doesn't have rigs and it works great. If you want to use rigs though a shield tanked ship is a good choice, shield resist rigs are cheap (5mil approx) and free up some hardener slots for other modules.

You make more money in missions from the salvage and loot you sell. Even the lower frigate mission npcs can drop modules worth a couple of mil each. Plus all the shit loot refines very nicely into minerals to build your own ships or sell for the money. Now throw in spending your loyalty points and selling those items gets you money too. Don't just look at what your agent is going to give you, that is usually just a fraction of the rewards you gain

Money from missions comes from:

1. Agent reward
   
2. Rat bounty (if you are fighting pirate faction npcs and not faction npcs)
   
3. Tags from faction npcs since you get no bounty (some are worth quite a bit)
   
4. Salvage, even if you can't salvage find someone to team up with and let them get the salvage for a small fee of course.
   
5. Loot. Both good items to sell and refinables. Don't forget a lot of the loot you might save for use later when you need to refit.
   

Out of all of those I would say the actual agent reward of cash is the smallest percentage of what you will make from missions.

By the time you get to level 4s you should have made plenty of money to buy your level 4 ship. You will make more than enough if you do all the things I said.

 

I just wanted to add some things here. I agreed with most. Im not sure if understood you completely on the money issue and that's why I added so much there.

 

Well, the thing is, if your a PvE mission runner, the main "goal" is to be able to do your level 4's solo. It's pretty much the benchmark every PvE player is going after until they consider themselves sufficient for missioning. For example, a RL friend of mine just decided that in his Domi he is sufficient enough that he could do any level 4's. So for the last couple weeks hes only now starting to put his SP into PvP-centric skills. He just trained up interceptors and I believe hes working on his T2 hybrids. So thats the goal people are going to go after - people want to get to the level 4's asap.

That said, on the subject of 0.0 ratting, I actually find that quite a bit easier then missioning - at least for killing the NPC's. The main issue with 0.0 ratting is that you likely need a corp out there, because if your flying a Domi out to 0.0 chances are you arent going to make it far solo.

As for rigs, thats likely dependant on your race and how you initially spent your SP. The Typhoon you mentioned will need quite a bit more SP to be sufficient then a Domi or Raven, which will mean more time until you could do them. Also, most sources will recommend starting Caldari or Gallente for missioning.

If you are piloting a Domi or a Raven, you WILL need rigs to be able to do it efficiently - especially when you are first learning how to do the lvl 4's and which ones to take/which to skip. Let me open EFT to give some examples...

Lets take the Domi first. On a character who is newly piloting a BS to get in to level 4's, they will only be working with named gear. Even if you use all cap recharger 2's in your mids, you will not be able to run 2 reppers for long at all - which is neccessary for level 4's to be able to tank. WIthout rigs, you can only run those 2 reppers for 2mins 43 seconds. That wont be enough to survive the beginning of a battle - especially when your DPS is only in the 200's without t2 drones. With double hardeners and both reppers running, this will only grant defense in the 400's in EFT.  It can run a single repper permenantly, but this brings the defense to barely over 200. This simply will not cut it in level 4's.

Now lets put rigs on - 3 CCC and you are cap stable with both reppers running. Peremenant defense in the 400s actually is sufficient for some level 4's, but still not all. 2 CCC and 1 Aux nano pump, and you pull up to 550-600 defense and can run that for 13 minutes - this will actually be able to handle most level 4's. Without these rigs you will have no chance.

My first character was Gallente so I know this to be true. By the time I was able to do level 4's, I actually could not afford a domi and rigs. I wasnt even close to being able to afford it until I was able to do some of the higher quality level 4's. So a friend lent me the money to buy the ship and rigs. I made back the money in level 4's to pay him back pretty fast - lvl 4s are a HUGE increase in cash compared to 3's, salvage and all, seriously.

So I paid him back, but soon after I dont remember what happened but I ended up losing the ship. I purchased it again from the insurance, but couldnt afford all the rigs. I was only able to afford 1 CCC but I gave it a try anyway, and it was a very hard time. I ended up borrowing money to get the rigs again. You have to be very careful not to lose the ship with rigs unless you have the money to replace them. After this point I remember spending an entire day farming which was going to make some decent cash for me, and then at the end of the day, ended up losing the ship. Those 3 rigs cost approx 50mil, and this basically wiped out all the money I made during the day. It is very discouraging when you work hard all day and then end up where you started.

Now factor in a new player, who dont know how the missions really work, and dont know which to avoid, your going to be losing some ships. It's not an easy transition to start those 4's.

Now lets look at the Raven - I actually have a new alt that is a lil over 3mil SP so this one will be easy. If you stack up on Capacitor Flux Coil II's and pop on cap rechargers... to be able to fit a shield booster and 2 hardeners, without rigs your cap will only last a minute and a half. With named cruise launchers you will be doing about 250ish DPS. This simply will not cut it, again.

But what happens when you toss 3 CCC's on there? Bam, cap stable, and your in a ship that can do level 4's. So for the Raven too, without a very skilled character, the rigs are competley neccessary.

With all that said, the last lvl 3 I did with salvage and all only gave around 5mil after selling salv etc. This means to afford that raven which is bout 85mill right now, plus 3 CCC's which are 16mil each right now, you are looking at 133mil. This is not including insurance which is approx 35-40m. Just for arguments sake to be lenient, lets say 160mil, thats 32 missions until you can even afford your level 4 ship.

To me, that is quite a grind.

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Well, the thing is, if your a PvE mission runner, the main "goal" is to be able to do your level 4's solo. It's pretty much the benchmark every PvE player is going after until they consider themselves sufficient for missioning. For example, a RL friend of mine just decided that in his Domi he is sufficient enough that he could do any level 4's. So for the last couple weeks hes only now starting to put his SP into PvP-centric skills. He just trained up interceptors and I believe hes working on his T2 hybrids. So thats the goal people are going to go after - people want to get to the level 4's asap.

Yeah and like I said just because you want to do level 4s asap that doesn't mean you should be able to. Either get some friends at lower levels or step back down to level 3s. The point is people want to be at the so called end game immediately when it doesn't work that way.

That said, on the subject of 0.0 ratting, I actually find that quite a bit easier then missioning - at least for killing the NPC's. The main issue with 0.0 ratting is that you likely need a corp out there, because if your flying a Domi out to 0.0 chances are you arent going to make it far solo.

Easier or not you still wont have the tank and dps needed to take down triple bs spawns.

As for rigs, thats likely dependant on your race and how you initially spent your SP. The Typhoon you mentioned will need quite a bit more SP to be sufficient then a Domi or Raven, which will mean more time until you could do them. Also, most sources will recommend starting Caldari or Gallente for missioning.

Ok since the Raven and Domi take less skills then it should be easier to do level 4s in without rigs than a Typhoon. Eveyone goes for a Caldari character for missions because they are the easiest to skill for and missles will always hit and and have huge range.

If you are piloting a Domi or a Raven, you WILL need rigs to be able to do it efficiently - especially when you are first learning how to do the lvl 4's and which ones to take/which to skip. Let me open EFT to give some examples...

How did people do level 4s in these ships before rigs ? Rigs are great to have but they are not needed and they are a luxery if you can afford to lose them.

Lets take the Domi first. On a character who is newly piloting a BS to get in to level 4's, they will only be working with named gear. Even if you use all cap recharger 2's in your mids, you will not be able to run 2 reppers for long at all - which is neccessary for level 4's to be able to tank. WIthout rigs, you can only run those 2 reppers for 2mins 43 seconds. That wont be enough to survive the beginning of a battle - especially when your DPS is only in the 200's without t2 drones. With double hardeners and both reppers running, this will only grant defense in the 400's in EFT.  It can run a single repper permenantly, but this brings the defense to barely over 200. This simply will not cut it in level 4's.

Fit a large nos or 2 and then the cap recharge isn't a problem (tip: NPCs have unlimited cap to nos from them) With 2 cap rechargers and 2 large nos I can run 1 large and 1 med rep, i just pulse themdium as needed. Basically though you are trying to bite off more than you can chew so get some friends or step back down to level 3s.

Now lets put rigs on - 3 CCC and you are cap stable with both reppers running. Peremenant defense in the 400s actually is sufficient for some level 4's, but still not all. 2 CCC and 1 Aux nano pump, and you pull up to 550-600 defense and can run that for 13 minutes - this will actually be able to handle most level 4's. Without these rigs you will have no chance.

Oh you wanna put CCC rigs in. Yeah news flash they are pricey as hell. And you complain if you lose them ? Maybe use some cheaper rigs and take care of your cap issues with the slots those rigs fill.

My first character was Gallente so I know this to be true. By the time I was able to do level 4's, I actually could not afford a domi and rigs. I wasnt even close to being able to afford it until I was able to do some of the higher quality level 4's. So a friend lent me the money to buy the ship and rigs. I made back the money in level 4's to pay him back pretty fast - lvl 4s are a HUGE increase in cash compared to 3's, salvage and all, seriously.

Yeah I know the cash difference. But level 4s are meant to be higher end for larger solo ships or groups. Level 4s are actually way too much money and the agents should be moved to low sec space.

So I paid him back, but soon after I dont remember what happened but I ended up losing the ship. I purchased it again from the insurance, but couldnt afford all the rigs. I was only able to afford 1 CCC but I gave it a try anyway, and it was a very hard time. I ended up borrowing money to get the rigs again. You have to be very careful not to lose the ship with rigs unless you have the money to replace them. After this point I remember spending an entire day farming which was going to make some decent cash for me, and then at the end of the day, ended up losing the ship. Those 3 rigs cost approx 50mil, and this basically wiped out all the money I made during the day. It is very discouraging when you work hard all day and then end up where you started.

Umm yeah I believe this is something I said would happen in my previous posts. You are doing something wrong, not the game.

Now factor in a new player, who dont know how the missions really work, and dont know which to avoid, your going to be losing some ships. It's not an easy transition to start those 4's.

No but once you get to level 4s chances are a new player will know about mission guides that break them all down and tell you how to fit and what to shoot first. Not too hard really.

Now lets look at the Raven - I actually have a new alt that is a lil over 3mil SP so this one will be easy. If you stack up on Capacitor Flux Coil II's and pop on cap rechargers... to be able to fit a shield booster and 2 hardeners, without rigs your cap will only last a minute and a half. With named cruise launchers you will be doing about 250ish DPS. This simply will not cut it, again.

3 mil sps to fly a battleship. Theres your problem right there. You are just not ready to fly that ship and you wanna throw  in CCC rigs.

But what happens when you toss 3 CCC's on there? Bam, cap stable, and your in a ship that can do level 4's. So for the Raven too, without a very skilled character, the rigs are competley neccessary.

Ok so with 3 mil sps and 3 CCCs tihs makes you able to do level 4s. Ok seriously stop crying.

With all that said, the last lvl 3 I did with salvage and all only gave around 5mil after selling salv etc. This means to afford that raven which is bout 85mill right now, plus 3 CCC's which are 16mil each right now, you are looking at 133mil. This is not including insurance which is approx 35-40m. Just for arguments sake to be lenient, lets say 160mil, thats 32 missions until you can even afford your level 4 ship.

To me, that is quite a grind.

Did you forget about all the other ways to make money off missions ? I listed 5 but you only picked 1. Did you get any good loot drops ? You will even get good loot off frigates. Did you refine the shit loot and sell the minerals ?

At this point all I get from you is that you want to walk into level 4s damn near immediately and clear them out. Sorry man but it really is only a matter of time before level 4 agents get moved into low sec (just my opinion here based one what I have seen CCP do over the last 6 years.

What you are asking for is the game to just be made stupid easy for new people to come in and have everything. Not gonna happen in Eve. Think yourslef lucky that you can actually do a level 4 mission in a battleship with only 3 mil sps and in safe and secure space. You take the risk by spending 50 mil on rigs or you don't, it's your choice. Either pay the money and keep your ship alive or lose it and be out that money, risk vs reward.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Yeah and like I said just because you want to do level 4s asap that doesn't mean you should be able to. Either get some friends at lower levels or step back down to level 3s. The point is people want to be at the so called end game immediately when it doesn't work that way.

Most people dont do missions for the sake of doing them, or to experience "end-game". Most people do them just so they have an established money making character. That's why probably half the people on the game have a missioning alt. CCP has made it clear multiple times that they have no plans of making it HARDER to get ISK, but easier.

Easier or not you still wont have the tank and dps needed to take down triple bs spawns.

Triple BS spawns arent really too hard, especially compared to missions. You can align and warp away if your in trouble and take them out 1 at a time if you have to. You get pounded much harder in missions and have to worry about ewar.

Ok since the Raven and Domi take less skills then it should be easier to do level 4s in without rigs than a Typhoon. Eveyone goes for a Caldari character for missions because they are the easiest to skill for and missles will always hit and and have huge range.

Not true. Even with all lvl 5 skills your going to have cap issues in a Raven w/o rigs.

How did people do level 4s in these ships before rigs ? Rigs are great to have but they are not needed and they are a luxery if you can afford to lose them.

Level 4 missions arent meant to be as hard as they were then. Thats why they added lvl 5's.

Fit a large nos or 2 and then the cap recharge isn't a problem (tip: NPCs have unlimited cap to nos from them) With 2 cap rechargers and 2 large nos I can run 1 large and 1 med rep, i just pulse themdium as needed. Basically though you are trying to bite off more than you can chew so get some friends or step back down to level 3s.

It's not biting off more then you can chew if you can do them with rigs. I was just stating that rigs are neccessary to do it effectively. 2 Heavy Nos only brings it up to 5.5 minutes of cap, and for the Domi the Aux Nano Pump is important for the defense it adds.

Oh you wanna put CCC rigs in. Yeah news flash they are pricey as hell. And you complain if you lose them ? Maybe use some cheaper rigs and take care of your cap issues with the slots those rigs fill.

I'm not speaking in current terms- I have 3 characters that can do lvl 4's and money isnt a problem.  I'm speaking in the view of a new player. Using cheaper rigs does not help new players at all when every fitting they look up has Aux Nano Pumps and CCC's.

Yeah I know the cash difference. But level 4s are meant to be higher end for larger solo ships or groups. Level 4s are actually way too much money and the agents should be moved to low sec space.

There are already agents in low sec and high sec for most factions.

Actually, what you think they should do is the OPPOSITE of how CCP feels. They stated that they are NOT going to reduce the amount of money that can be made from lvl 4's. They are balancing high-low sec by INCREASING the profit you can get in low sec. Thats why once the patch drops, you will be seeing BS spawns in low-sec as well.

Umm yeah I believe this is something I said would happen in my previous posts. You are doing something wrong, not the game.

Eve is a Sandbox game. There is no "Right or wrong" way to play.

When did this become a discussion about right or wrong, anyway? What I said was it is not possible to be effective in a Raven or Domi in level 4's without the rigs at low SP, and I gave the numbers to back up the claim. It IS possible to do them with the rigs giving you the numbers I gave.

If you really want to prove me wrong, why dont you bust out EFT and see for yourself if you can find a setup that can match the numbers I gave with the limit of skills I have been discussing?

No but once you get to level 4s chances are a new player will know about mission guides that break them all down and tell you how to fit and what to shoot first. Not too hard really.

The guides are often wrong or outdated. Especially when it comes to which enemies will trigger a spawn - which is the big issue that gets new players killed - either too much DPS from the additional spawn, or an unexpected scram.

3 mil sps to fly a battleship. Theres your problem right there. You are just not ready to fly that ship and you wanna throw  in CCC rigs.

3mil SP is the breakpoint for Domi and Raven pilots - WITH rigs. If you do a search, you will see loads of players giving the same advice.

Ok so with 3 mil sps and 3 CCCs tihs makes you able to do level 4s. Ok seriously stop crying.

I was never crying. I simply stated that the rigs were neccessary, and the reason I stated that was because you asked me what the money issue was for new players.

Did you forget about all the other ways to make money off missions ? I listed 5 but you only picked 1. Did you get any good loot drops ? You will even get good loot off frigates. Did you refine the shit loot and sell the minerals ?

The 5 mill figure I gave was including everything except for LP rewards - the mission reward and bountys gave approx 1mill. The other 4 mill was from selling/salvage/etc.

 

At this point all I get from you is that you want to walk into level 4s damn near immediately and clear them out. Sorry man but it really is only a matter of time before level 4 agents get moved into low sec (just my opinion here based one what I have seen CCP do over the last 6 years.

What you are asking for is the game to just be made stupid easy for new people to come in and have everything. Not gonna happen in Eve. Think yourslef lucky that you can actually do a level 4 mission in a battleship with only 3 mil sps and in safe and secure space. You take the risk by spending 50 mil on rigs or you don't, it's your choice. Either pay the money and keep your ship alive or lose it and be out that money, risk vs reward.

 

Dude, to get 3mill SP takes a couple months anyway. That's not immediately.

It's not even all my words either - the advice that Caldari or Gallente players are set for lvl 4's at 3mill SP are all over the official Eve forums, and the noob guides.

The agents wont be moved to low-sec either. They are increasing low sec rewards, not reducing the rewards from anywhere.

The only changes they stated that may happen to lvl 4 missions is they may add the improved AI to them at sometime, in which case they will be increasing rewards due to the difficulty.

I havent asked for the game to be made easier either. I simply brought up money issues for new players. I dont know why you go from us having a somewhat-friendly discussion, to this post where you are being condenscending and attempting to talk down to me and putting words in my mouth. I never once said that I want the missions to be made easier. Did you forget that you asked me what money issues new players have? I simply explained why it is not an easy time, and that it is a grind to be able to afford an adequate ship for level 4's if you are limited on skills.

Originally posted by TheGrue

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

Nuff said.

You may now begin with the "omfg troll!!!eleventyones" 

I too agree with Zeropunctuations review of EvE it is a very accurate review of the SINGLE PLAYER side of EvE. Now what i would like him to do is review the Corp side of EvE you know the bit in EvE where you work with others.

Of course its well known that he Detests MMORPG games of any type so that probably tends to colour his reviews a little.

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

Originally posted by TheGrue

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

Nuff said.

You may now begin with the "omfg troll!!!eleventyones" 

 

I too agree with Zeropunctuations review of EvE it is a very accurate review of the SINGLE PLAYER side of EvE. 

EVE has a single player side 
 

I haven't read the review, but EVE is clearly not designed for single player play. It's a game, like most, that does have faults, but if your looking for a game that you can play long term and have loads of fun, I don't think there's a better game out there. Just my HO

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Dude, to get 3mill SP takes a couple months anyway. That's not immediately.

It's not even all my words either - the advice that Caldari or Gallente players are set for lvl 4's at 3mill SP are all over the official Eve forums, and the noob guides.

The agents wont be moved to low-sec either. They are increasing low sec rewards, not reducing the rewards from anywhere.

The only changes they stated that may happen to lvl 4 missions is they may add the improved AI to them at sometime, in which case they will be increasing rewards due to the difficulty.

I havent asked for the game to be made easier either. I simply brought up money issues for new players. I dont know why you go from us having a somewhat-friendly discussion, to this post where you are being condenscending and attempting to talk down to me and putting words in my mouth. I never once said that I want the missions to be made easier. Did you forget that you asked me what money issues new players have? I simply explained why it is not an easy time, and that it is a grind to be able to afford an adequate ship for level 4's if you are limited on skills.

3 mil is a minimum to be able to do missions which are easy. Do these guides say to use rigs ?

I never said it was fact they would be moved. In fact I said it was my opinion, my opinion is never given as fact from me.

You have asked for the game to made easier with all the extra skill training which is not needed. Money issues are a whole other thing and all I can say to that is that there is no money issue for new players. If you can't make money it's because you are losing money somewhere, probably by putting all your money into to ships you cant fly well enough yet  ?

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Dude, to get 3mill SP takes a couple months anyway. That's not immediately.

It's not even all my words either - the advice that Caldari or Gallente players are set for lvl 4's at 3mill SP are all over the official Eve forums, and the noob guides.

The agents wont be moved to low-sec either. They are increasing low sec rewards, not reducing the rewards from anywhere.

The only changes they stated that may happen to lvl 4 missions is they may add the improved AI to them at sometime, in which case they will be increasing rewards due to the difficulty.

I havent asked for the game to be made easier either. I simply brought up money issues for new players. I dont know why you go from us having a somewhat-friendly discussion, to this post where you are being condenscending and attempting to talk down to me and putting words in my mouth. I never once said that I want the missions to be made easier. Did you forget that you asked me what money issues new players have? I simply explained why it is not an easy time, and that it is a grind to be able to afford an adequate ship for level 4's if you are limited on skills.

 

3 mil is a minimum to be able to do missions which are easy. Do these guides say to use rigs ?

I never said it was fact they would be moved. In fact I said it was my opinion, my opinion is never given as fact from me.

You have asked for the game to made easier with all the extra skill training which is not needed. Money issues are a whole other thing and all I can say to that is that there is no money issue for new players. If you can't make money it's because you are losing money somewhere, probably by putting all your money into to ships you cant fly well enough yet  ?

Every fitting list you find for Ravens or Domis say to use rigs. Even the ones on the official website.

wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Raven_(Fitting)

wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Dominix_(Fitting)

With your last paragraph, your bringing up something we discussed in a completely different topic and subject, and using it out of context. The topic your mentioning was a discussion about the current "new player experience" versus the new one in the coming expansion. Faster skill training until 1.6 mill sp is something CCP IS implementing. So if you have a problem with the game being "made easier", your problem is with them. All I think should be done differently in that is they should not remove the 2-3 level 4 and 5 skills from the starting templates because that will make the players first couple weeks less enjoyable - that is all. Obviously, CCP does not think that being able to get to a measly 1.6 mill faster is "making the game easier".

You even said it yourself, "Money issues are a whole other thing", so I dont know why you would bring that subject up here where it is completely out of context. We were discussing money issues in this topic - look up a few posts and youll see yourself questioning me about what money issues new players have, because you did not believe there was a grind, so I gave you examples.

With that said, there is no way for a "new player" to know the difficulty of a level 4 mission without trying it. Once a player realizes they can pop on a full fitting that CCP themselves recommends for level 4's, of course they are going to think they are skilled enough for it. Even if they are further then the recommended skills, it will still be a learning curve, and they will still lose a few ships in the process.

Which is where the grind I was talking about is. It's approx 150mill+ to afford those ships in the first place, which is a grind, on top of the standing grind which is even harder for many people who dont even know the social skills exist. Plus they are going to have to take risks and likely lose ships in the process before they know they can handle all the level 4 missions - which is typically 50mill+ a pop due to rigs - even more depending on which ship you use.

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Dude, to get 3mill SP takes a couple months anyway. That's not immediately.

It's not even all my words either - the advice that Caldari or Gallente players are set for lvl 4's at 3mill SP are all over the official Eve forums, and the noob guides.

The agents wont be moved to low-sec either. They are increasing low sec rewards, not reducing the rewards from anywhere.

The only changes they stated that may happen to lvl 4 missions is they may add the improved AI to them at sometime, in which case they will be increasing rewards due to the difficulty.

I havent asked for the game to be made easier either. I simply brought up money issues for new players. I dont know why you go from us having a somewhat-friendly discussion, to this post where you are being condenscending and attempting to talk down to me and putting words in my mouth. I never once said that I want the missions to be made easier. Did you forget that you asked me what money issues new players have? I simply explained why it is not an easy time, and that it is a grind to be able to afford an adequate ship for level 4's if you are limited on skills.

 

3 mil is a minimum to be able to do missions which are easy. Do these guides say to use rigs ?

I never said it was fact they would be moved. In fact I said it was my opinion, my opinion is never given as fact from me.

You have asked for the game to made easier with all the extra skill training which is not needed. Money issues are a whole other thing and all I can say to that is that there is no money issue for new players. If you can't make money it's because you are losing money somewhere, probably by putting all your money into to ships you cant fly well enough yet  ?

 

Every fitting list you find for Ravens or Domis say to use rigs. Even the ones on the official website.

wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Raven_(Fitting)

wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Dominix_(Fitting)

With your last paragraph, your bringing up something we discussed in a completely different topic and subject, and using it out of context. The topic your mentioning was a discussion about the current "new player experience" versus the new one in the coming expansion. Faster skill training until 1.6 mill sp is something CCP IS implementing. So if you have a problem with the game being "made easier", your problem is with them. All I think should be done differently in that is they should not remove the 2-3 level 4 and 5 skills from the starting templates because that will make the players first couple weeks less enjoyable - that is all. Obviously, CCP does not think that being able to get to a measly 1.6 mill faster is "making the game easier".

You even said it yourself, "Money issues are a whole other thing", so I dont know why you would bring that subject up here where it is completely out of context. We were discussing money issues in this topic - look up a few posts and youll see yourself questioning me about what money issues new players have, because you did not believe there was a grind, so I gave you examples.

With that said, there is no way for a "new player" to know the difficulty of a level 4 mission without trying it. Once a player realizes they can pop on a full fitting that CCP themselves recommends for level 4's, of course they are going to think they are skilled enough for it. Even if they are further then the recommended skills, it will still be a learning curve, and they will still lose a few ships in the process.

Which is where the grind I was talking about is. It's approx 150mill+ to afford those ships in the first place, which is a grind, on top of the standing grind which is even harder for many people who dont even know the social skills exist. Plus they are going to have to take risks and likely lose ships in the process before they know they can handle all the level 4 missions - which is typically 50mill+ a pop due to rigs - even more depending on which ship you use.

Every game has a grind.

Eve happens to have a Isk grind which isnt bad after a month or two and it has a standing grind which you can either totally avoid or fleet with friends and get through standing faster.

The standing needed for a jump clone is a crappy grind imo, since I hate having to do mission for any other reason but to make isk.

Also I don't think CCP is making anything easier by giving new players 100% learning until 1.6 million. these new players have 0 learning skills and only 50k Sp. sure they can specialize sooner but its still just as hard to figure out what the hell you actually need to train.

Also imo if your flying a god damn BS into level fours with only 3 million Sp, I love you. Because you guys are the newbs with shit skills that i love to blow up.

I had some asshole in a Domi with Tech I drone skills using tech I heavy blaster beg for his ship before I blew him up lol.

Personally I wouldnt touch a BS until I was fully training 6 months, New people in eve seem to rush to big ships way too fast. Oh well I could use more newb targets good luck.

At this point whatever, i really don't care anymore. Ill just leave it at this.

What CCP is doing is fine, I have no problems with it and nor do I see it as making things easier. I only said that sped up training on top of current starting sp is a bad idea for the reasons I have posted. I talked about this because it was brought up.

Ok fine the wiki says to use rigs, go ahead and follow the guide because you cant think for yourself. Risk that 60 mil in rigs, you lost them oops too bad, risk vs reward remember. Risk of trying to power level so to speak through the game.

150 mil is not that much to make and you still ignored all the ways I said to make money out of missions.

A player might not know the exact difficulty of a level 4 but they can get a good idea of what to expect with the mission guides. Seriously can the player learn anything on their own ? Or heaven forbid you get a 2nd player to help out. Eve is a somewhat friendly game to solo players but solo players cannot do everything well right away.

And to be truly honest you should have learned how to deal with threats preventing you from warping out when you get in trouble then maybe you really shouldn't be doing level 4s.

We clearly have a difference of opinion on how fast a player should be skilled up and has enough cash to do level 4 missions the way that you want to. In all seriousness level 4s are way to lucrative for the low risk they have. It is easy for 2 people working together to make a bil between them in a week. A friend and I did it casually in a less than optimal setup.

Thank you Z3R01 for agreeing that 3mil sp on a bs even with rigs is too low for level 4s. I don't really care what the guides say. Some of the easier sure but not the hatrder ones. Even high sp players have to warp of missions sometimes unless they are flying something like a faction fitted raven

I have a hate/love relationship with EvE.

Graphics: they're fine and fit-to-purpose. I use the classic client after having been burnt by the premium graphics one. I was one of those poor suckers who lost their boot.ini. After I fixed that, I did manage to get premium graphics running but found it hard to run two accounts at the same time on the same computer.

Sounds: fine.

UI: fine. Annoying that there is still some lag with simple operations like moving stuff from one container to another (like a jetcan into my cargo hold). Annoying that the market can still lag.

Gameplay: I love the character progression in EvE. The way the skills are set up is one of the best things about the game. I love how you can customise your character to whatever you want. Yes, you do have to follow set paths if you want to be a mission runner for example, but  you can tweek your skills after a certain point to give your character other things to do. You can be a mission runner but also a fleet tackler, for example, or someone who gathers intel. What I don't like is how incredibly boring a lot of EvE's gameplay is. I don't mind travelling, though I find that I end up reading while I am actively warping to 0 (I never use autopilot... ever). While it may seem bad that I can read and travel at the same time, or read and mine or whatever... EvE is an appealing game to play when you still want to progress a character in a game but have other stuff to do. The downside is that it doesn't make EvE that particularly engaging or adrenaline-pumping most of the time. Sure, PvP will get adrenaline going since you can lose your ship, pod and lots of other stuff, but EvE isn't all about PvP combat. If I didn't have corpmates to talk to, books to read, etc., EvE would be extremely boring. Operations are fun, but even then there is a hell of a lot of waiting around to do. This game is definitely not ever going to satisfy any need for immediate action. So people will have to find that experience else-where. For short-term and medium-term action, EvE is not it, but for long-term action it is. That means spending a lot of game-time docked with many windows open planning things out.

Community: this is the bit I hate the most overall. I have corpmates I've known for several years in EvE. We've helped each other over the years... there are quite a few good and nice people in EvE. But from my experience there are a very large amount of buttholes too. I'm not talking about scammers and griefers: I can deal with both of those (scammers are usually polite and there hasn't been a griefer yet I've haven't outsmarted). I'm talking about those who feel they can cop an attitude: smacktalkers and people who constantly tell others that the way THEY play the game is the right way. The former, I usually block if they keep at it, whether I'm the target of the smacktalk or not. After so many years of being on the internet, I have very little patience anymore of people using their anonymity to insult and attack others. But with the latter, quite often they are my own corpmates or alliancemates. I am so utterly sick of people giving me 'advice' I don't want or need. I don't know if they do it thinking that a woman can't pilot a ship in EvE without being babied or what... but quite often the guys doing it have a fraction of the gametime I have.

Overall, there is something about EvE that keeps me coming back but it's not a game I can play just on its own. I need to have a more 'cookie cutter' MMO to keep me entertained. EvE is therefore a luxury I indulge in when I feel that urge. Needless to say, I've taken many breaks.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

At this point whatever, i really don't care anymore. Ill just leave it at this.

What CCP is doing is fine, I have no problems with it and nor do I see it as making things easier. I only said that sped up training on top of current starting sp is a bad idea for the reasons I have posted. I talked about this because it was brought up.

Ok fine the wiki says to use rigs, go ahead and follow the guide because you cant think for yourself. Risk that 60 mil in rigs, you lost them oops too bad, risk vs reward remember. Risk of trying to power level so to speak through the game.

150 mil is not that much to make and you still ignored all the ways I said to make money out of missions.

A player might not know the exact difficulty of a level 4 but they can get a good idea of what to expect with the mission guides. Seriously can the player learn anything on their own ? Or heaven forbid you get a 2nd player to help out. Eve is a somewhat friendly game to solo players but solo players cannot do everything well right away.

And to be truly honest you should have learned how to deal with threats preventing you from warping out when you get in trouble then maybe you really shouldn't be doing level 4s.

We clearly have a difference of opinion on how fast a player should be skilled up and has enough cash to do level 4 missions the way that you want to. In all seriousness level 4s are way to lucrative for the low risk they have. It is easy for 2 people working together to make a bil between them in a week. A friend and I did it casually in a less than optimal setup.

Thank you Z3R01 for agreeing that 3mil sp on a bs even with rigs is too low for level 4s. I don't really care what the guides say. Some of the easier sure but not the hatrder ones. Even high sp players have to warp of missions sometimes unless they are flying something like a faction fitted raven

Dude, I told you already, I have 3 characters that are more then skilled enough for missions. Why are you still trying to talk down to me like I am having trouble?

You claim "you only talked about the SP because it was brought up", but you were the one who brought it up - you contradict yourself because you just want a reason to keep flaming.

"Seriously can a player learn anything on their own?" Learning it on their own is exactly what I mentioned players have to do in my post. Again, just trying to be condescending.

You try to talk like people are out of their mind to mission with Rigs, when if you look at BattleClinic - the most popular site for Eve fittings - every single BS mission fit has rigs in them. Considering that, what information do you think 90% of the players out there are going to get when they first get a BS?

I didnt ignore you about how to make money in level 3's, you ignored the fact that I told you doing everything you listed only results in 5mill per mission (excluding LP reward).

About threats that keep you from warping - its easy to say you know how to deal with them when your experienced, but if you are a new player you are going to be using eve-survival.org to try to gauge how hard a mission is. It's not the new players fault when it tells them kill a Gisti Hijacker to trigger the next spawn, so they avoid the Hijacker and kill the Defilers - and due to wrong information trigger a 2nd spawn which is too much to tank and cant escape due to scramblers.

You shouldnt have even asked what kind of grind new players have if you were going to talk down to them for following new player guides and official information from the Eve wiki which they have stated is part of the new player experience for the expansion. You asked what grind noobs have, I told you, and now your trying to turn it around and trash talk? Find someone else to flame becuase your just looking like a condescending jerk. I havent even used any Eve guides at all in years since I was a new player. Your stooping down to not only being condescending to me, but also insulting everyone who uses guides that CCP has on their official site which is focused on those new players?

Originally posted by TheGrue

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

Nuff said.

You may now begin with the "omfg troll!!!eleventyones" 

I hope you don't seriously take Yahtzee's reviews to heart

He hates on every game he "reviews," that's his shtick. It's like snarky satire - I thought everyone knew this by now. He's payed to completely rip popular games apart / play devil's advocate - or did you just honestly think he hates every single AAA game?

Originally posted by anakinsella

Originally posted by TheGrue

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

Nuff said.

You may now begin with the "omfg troll!!!eleventyones" 

 

I hope you don't seriously take Yahtzee's reviews to heart

He hates on every game he "reviews," that's his shtick. It's like snarky satire - I thought everyone knew this by now. He's payed to completely rip popular games apart / play devil's advocate - or did you just honestly think he hates every single AAA game?

The trolls will believe anything if it could be used as fuel for the fire.

When they link that dude I know they have virtually nothing left. Eve is a great game and the trolls are running out of shit to talk about.

Eve is the only mmo that requires you to use your brains, some people play mmos so that they dont have to use theirs.

Do you have avatars in which to get outside of your ship and walk around with now?  When I tried out the game, that was my biggest issue with it.  I didn't want to "be" a spaceship.

Try back just before christmas time, that's when the Ambulation expansion is scheduled to launch.

I am curious though as to what exactly being able to walk around on stations is going to do for you game wise that isn't already there ? Do you only want to own and run a station bar or shop ?

Don't get me wrong, I think Ambulation will be a great atmospheric tool for the game and look forward to it. It will open up some new career options but it really won't change the game that drastic. Is being an actual 3d character rather than a ship that much of a psychological impact ? Most of the time in any other 3d character mmo you end up looking at your toons ass 99% of the time anyways.

Yea, it makes a big difference...for me anyway, I wasn't speaking for anyone but myself.  It's the same reason why when I have a 3D humanoid avatar, I don't play girl characters.  It's the same reason many don't play games that have 2D graphics, but incredible storylines...aesthetics matter.  And for me, the aesthetic of being a ship just doesn't sit right. 

Someone mentioned being worried about a newbie getting into a corp because they didn't have any experience or very low skill level. There is a corp for you. It is called EVE University.  It is a corp but one dedicated to teaching the hows, whys, and wherefores of the game. Everything from best ways to mine to pvp. Many players have gone thru the classes that Eve Uni holds and then gone on to other corps. Many move on to my corp,  The Graduates, formed by former EVE Uni teachers and students.

I never belonged to Eve Uni, didn't even know about it, but sure wish I had.  Had to learn things the hard way.  Joining Eve Uni and learning from experience players and doing things with players of your skill level AND getting some pvp experience AND THEN joining a 0.0 corp, it is just the best way to go I believe.

EVE isn't for everyone but everyone should at least give it a fair trial.

Originally posted by DKKOberon

Someone mentioned being worried about a newbie getting into a corp because they didn't have any experience or very low skill level. There is a corp for you. It is called EVE University.  It is a corp but one dedicated to teaching the hows, whys, and wherefores of the game. Everything from best ways to mine to pvp. Many players have gone thru the classes that Eve Uni holds and then gone on to other corps. Many move on to my corp,  The Graduates, formed by former EVE Uni teachers and students.

I never belonged to Eve Uni, didn't even know about it, but sure wish I had.  Had to learn things the hard way.  Joining Eve Uni and learning from experience players and doing things with players of your skill level AND getting some pvp experience AND THEN joining a 0.0 corp, it is just the best way to go I believe.

EVE isn't for everyone but everyone should at least give it a fair trial.

 

hey dkkoberon im in EVE uni and its been the best decission i have made in eve since i started playing in late 07, this corp is the best place to be if you feel lost in the vastness of the eve universe.

BTW looking to join the graduates at some point :P