I'm currently looking for a game where I can group a lot to get things done. I don't like waiting too much for groups (20 mins max). I have played Vanguard, EQ2, WoW, AoC and Guild Wars.

What I didn't like about Vanguard was the long wait times for groups. In EQ2 it was the fact I needed the latest expansion to group. I thought WoW too easy and hated the community. AoC was too much solo. I didn't very much like Guild Wars overall.

A nice crafting system with some complexity isn't a must, but a bonus. I don't mind paying monthly fees, although a free trial is a MUST. Also, I would like some kind of a group structure (tank, healer and DPS), not just wild spanking.

Originally posted by drag9999

I'm currently looking for a game where I can group a lot to get things done. I don't like waiting too much for groups (20 mins max). I have played Vanguard, EQ2, WoW, AoC and Guild Wars.

What I didn't like about Vanguard was the long wait times for groups. In EQ2 it was the fact I needed the latest expansion to group. I thought WoW too easy and hated the community. AoC was too much solo. I didn't very much like Guild Wars overall.

A nice crafting system with some complexity isn't a must, but a bonus. I don't mind paying monthly fees, although a free trial is a MUST. Also, I would like some kind of a group structure (tank, healer and DPS), not just wild spanking.

It would help if you tell a little more about what you like to do in games!

But it sounds like you are looking for some of the features that has been well implemented in WARHAMMER. Where 1 click gets you a screen with open groups free to join in the area! And with the Public quest feature you can just start on a (light dungeoun like) quest , and people will join underway.
This for sure cuts alot of the downtime there is looking for groups in alot of games! Together with the the auto join feature on scenarioes that port you out of the world (and back after)to play a scenario with typical around 12 vs12. You might not find a game better suited to cut the down time looking for groups. War is in that way very causal friendly!

But the caveat is that not that much is going on in PVE as the game is RvR centric. To have regular groups doing "serius" PvE i would aim for a big causual guild, where events are organised regular. But if you happend to like the PvP aspects easy acceseble and ready to join a in all the different ways you can imagine then WAR is it.

it comes with a free trial atm. Just now there is coming a new patch , to rework crafting and introducing 2 new classes! Crafting is not very complicated , but designed mostly around being selfsufficient ! Again it works well from a causual gamers view.

It might be the rigt time to try as there is going to be an influx of players, resubing and rerolling meaning that there will be activity in the low areas of the game!

 (send me a cake if it works for you !;)

You've played most of the decent group oriented games, sad to tell you.

Warhammer was a fair suggestion.  Grouping is done sometimes in it.  You can solo most of the game just like AoC though so be prepared for not seeing ANYONE AT ALL in most of the low level zones.

And before fanboi's start screaming OMG there's bazillions in newb land...that's because they just added 2 new classes.  Give it a month and those newb areas will be graveyards again with NOBODY in them.  We all know it.

You could try some of the older games...CoX games for instance they require grouping for most classes and are still fun for about a month or so.

Your only other option is to try some of the games coming out and hope they do grouping.  If you want the old style sandbox, your out of luck.

I'm mainly a PvE guy although I do enjoy casual PvP. Having to apply boss strategies was one of my favorite parts of grouping, where organization was required. I'm not sure what CoX is, can you clear that up for me? I have a free trial for WAR going and I didn't very much like the aspect of the game on my first character (it was a dwarf, although I forgot the class).

Originally posted by drag9999

I'm currently looking for a game where I can group a lot to get things done. I don't like waiting too much for groups (20 mins max). I have played Vanguard, EQ2, WoW, AoC and Guild Wars.

What I didn't like about Vanguard was the long wait times for groups. In EQ2 it was the fact I needed the latest expansion to group. I thought WoW too easy and hated the community. AoC was too much solo. I didn't very much like Guild Wars overall.

A nice crafting system with some complexity isn't a must, but a bonus. I don't mind paying monthly fees, although a free trial is a MUST. Also, I would like some kind of a group structure (tank, healer and DPS), not just wild spanking.

Damn, man, you speak like new born D&D Online player! 

No, seriously, EVERYTHING matches what you described. DDO is based mostly on group play in great, hand crafted dungeons or free air explorable areas, etc. It has even voice chat implemented if you'd want to use it. Character customization is probably the best out there on the market, and every quest is story driven, starting with simplest, then going to more complex. But no "kill 10 bears" or "brinks 20 hunks of meat" quests. Each in DDO is absolutely unique.

You can find mechanical and magical traps, use skills to find / neutralize them (rogue), search for secret passages in the walls (every character), climb, swim, catch the edge of some platform and climb on it, tumble to escape foes or make only one of them attack you at once, etc.

Gameplay is based in big factor on your skills, rather than "faceroll" like in WoW. No "facerolls" in DDO, you must be cunning and inteligent to overcame the hardest tasks.

More so, DDO is now having it's 3rd Anniversary. So for some time players are now getting 50% xp more, and EU DDO servers (where I play) start with +1 to loot quality in game. There will be more, so I really encourage you to try.

The links for DDO EU are in my sig. And if you want to watch some screens from game, check my gallery:
www.mmorpg.com/photo/371285a1-0e4b-4a64-a827-e512ec43913c

There are some recent additions - I'm learnig the craft of screen-shooting . If you have questions, just ask. About population - we have an influx right now, so there should be quite good number of newcomers to party with.

With what you wrote, I think you should give it a try . Good luck!

I think I'll give DDO another try. I played up to level 7 when I first tried it. It seemed awefully empty back then. Any advice on server to pick, builds and etc?

Originally posted by drag9999

I think I'll give DDO another try. I played up to level 7 when I first tried it. It seemed awefully empty back then. Any advice on server to pick, builds and etc?

You seem to be quite experienced player. I think the best advice it to learn for yourself . But there's new character builder, where you can choose a "path" for your character - a template build. They are surprisingly well done. And you can leave the "path" to customize for yourself at every level, once you feel learned somewhat. Char gen. has good explanation, just read it's tabs. Not much text, but should prove useful.

Of course there are builds for making you "more uber then average", but it's more advanced talk. You can find these builds on official forums. I don't use them though, and have great fun.

If you tried it at the start, you'll be amazed how much has changed for better. It's like a new game after these 3 years. Many former beta testers who left soon after premiere are comming back now, so you're not alone here.

As for servers... I play on DDO EU, and here it doesn't matter. They have similar population now, it was such conclusion when some new players asked this on forums. Af for DDO US I don't know, honestly. Ask here on mmorpg.com in DDO section, if you choose US.

Though in DDO EU my characters are mainly on Keeper, and I'm happy about it.

that was the problem with DDO, i played it in Open Beta, when the game is supposed to be close to polished and it wasnt that good.  Why after 3 years are people coming back?  Make the game good from the start so people like me can enjoy it from the beginning,  DDO does sound like your MMO of choice.

*cough, cough* oh, who? me? FFXI now!

Originally posted by Almostlife

*cough, cough* oh, who? me? FFXI now!

Seeing your qoute below your nick, I see clearly you never played DDO . No auto-attacks as actions .

CoX (which is City of Heroes/Villians) and DDO are probably two games you should look at . They are both very group orienated, and I have never had an issue finding groups in either game, I think the longest I waited was 5 minutes in CoX, less than 2 in DDO.

Absolutely DDO. Its the best group-focused game available today. I love CoX as well, but DDO is a much more challenging and rewarding game.

During DDO release I think most people were still blinded by the polish and extreme accessiblity of WoW and it got overlooked by the majority of hardcore gamers. That is a good thing for those of us discovering it now since DDO has now had 3 years worth of upgrades and content added.

I do agree that DDO is better for grouping, both CoX and DDO have a lot to offer and I think both should be given a chance by the OP, see which he prefers plus the other games listed if they have trials associated with them.

When my DDO trial is over I'll try CoH/CoV and I'll update you guys.