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goneglockin
Advanced Member
Joined: 3/11/05
-Part of the glorious PC gaming master race since 92 |
Originally posted by Draklon Doesn't a game serve its purpose if people enjoy playing it?
Look at it this way. If you charge a person starving to death big bucks for a meager portion of spoiled food, they are going to tell you it was the best meal they've ever had. It's pretty fitting because a lot of us have been waiting for years to play a game the same ideas as DF, myself included. Lots of folks who've been waiting will naturally overlook quite a bit. The purpose of a game is simply to make money. The difference between a good game and a bad game is that good games are creative, entertaining and expressive or offer some depth- and make money as a result. Bad games make money because there are a lot of undisciplined starving consumers out there.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise. |
Originally posted by Orthedos
Who's angry? Maybe you should be more specific so people don't think you're making wild accusations.
I clearly said To Kosmos: .... That means I am not talking to you. I never said you ask the OP to shut up. I am talking about the first reply in this thread. I clearly wrote "to kosmos" and "the first reply" separately. If you cannot read, don't blame me. READ before you said something. I never put words in your mouth, I am not even talking to you on that part of the argument. Maybe I need to split 2 replies to 2 views in 2 separate replies, but with I was expecting some common reading skills from the readers here and I kinda get lazy and lump them up. Maybe I should expect less.
"If I do not read the replies that follows, the opinion from the OP is just a rant, not much. He has nothing solid to offer. What follows however are some very despotic views who seems to be based on the fact that they had paid for it. That is what upsets me. As I said, both views matter, and again both does b/c none of them are very informative. At least the OP is more polite and does not tell us to shut up. The first reply simply says shut up, which to me sounds like mad hatred driven." This is a direct quote of the post in question, and I don't see "To Kosmos:" in there anywhere. Clearly it's my reading skills that are in question here when you are simply making up text and pretending it's there when it's not. Oh but it's okay if you badmouth me here for shooting down the OP, and then at the very same moment you're in another thread ranting about how terrible Darkfall is. Right... but you're the unbiased one here, am I right? |
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Originally posted by Orthedos
I didn't mean that capitalists are superior. I brought an example of someone so narrowminded that didn't understand that quality is in the eye of the beholder, that just because something came out of hollywood or whatever didn't make it neccesarily crap. That different people enjoy different things, and just because it's not what we like doesnt make them crap. There billion dollar movies that are great (Dark Knight, LORTO, etc) and others that I don't like, there are series that millions of people watch that I like (Lost,BSG) and others that I don't. I know people that hated Dark Knight and Lost, that doesnt make them crap entertaintment. Also the ones I don't like , doesnt mean they are crap also. As long as someone enjoys what the play , watch, listen to it's fine by me. I do hate people that try to tell me what I SHOULD watch though, what is good for me. Fuck them I say .I know what I like, I don't need a pseudointelectual to tell me what it is.
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Originally posted by Aethios
Who's angry? Maybe you should be more specific so people don't think you're making wild accusations.
I clearly said To Kosmos: .... That means I am not talking to you. I never said you ask the OP to shut up. I am talking about the first reply in this thread. I clearly wrote "to kosmos" and "the first reply" separately. If you cannot read, don't blame me. READ before you said something. I never put words in your mouth, I am not even talking to you on that part of the argument. Maybe I need to split 2 replies to 2 views in 2 separate replies, but with I was expecting some common reading skills from the readers here and I kinda get lazy and lump them up. Maybe I should expect less.
"If I do not read the replies that follows, the opinion from the OP is just a rant, not much. He has nothing solid to offer. What follows however are some very despotic views who seems to be based on the fact that they had paid for it. That is what upsets me. As I said, both views matter, and again both does b/c none of them are very informative. At least the OP is more polite and does not tell us to shut up. The first reply simply says shut up, which to me sounds like mad hatred driven." This is a direct quote of the post in question, and I don't see "To Kosmos:" in there anywhere. Clearly it's my reading skills that are in question here when you are simply making up text and pretending it's there when it's not. Oh but it's okay if you badmouth me here for shooting down the OP, and then at the very same moment you're in another thread ranting about how terrible Darkfall is. Right... but you're the unbiased one here, am I right? Where did I said TO kosmos? reply #14 last line. Luckily I never edit that reply. So its still original. All the rest of the discussion follows from it. |
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Btw you notice how the OP is avoiding telling us what he considers quality entertaintment, or quality games. He seems eager enough to tell us what we SHOULDN'T do, not what he thinks is what we SHOULD do. Which is sad, cause that is where the funn would begin. |
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Originally posted by dimmit77
I didn't mean that capitalists are superior. I brought an example of someone so narrowminded that didn't understand that quality is in the eye of the beholder, that just because something came out of hollywood or whatever didn't make it neccesarily crap. That different people enjoy different things, and just because it's not what we like doesnt make them crap. There billion dollar movies that are great (Dark Knight, LORTO, etc) and others that I don't like, there are series that millions of people watch that I like (Lost,BSG) and others that I don't. I know people that hated Dark Knight and Lost, that doesnt make them crap entertaintment. Also the ones I don't like , doesnt mean they are crap also. As long as someone enjoys what the play , watch, listen to it's fine by me. I do hate people that try to tell me what I SHOULD watch though, what is good for me. Fuck them I say .I know what I like, I don't need a pseudointelectual to tell me what it is.
I agree, how ppl spend their hours and money is none of my business. As for communism, lets face it, there never was true communism in the sense of the word. Its just Russia trying to modernise itself after throwing out the monarchy, and Lenin immediately starts the new economic program which has nothing to do with true socialism. As for China now, lets face it, its more capitalist than the West. Enuf ranting, back to games. |
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Originally posted by Orthedos Where did I said TO kosmos? reply #14 last line. Luckily I never edit that reply. So its still original. All the rest of the discussion follows from it.
So you think I'm talking about a completely different reply even though I clearly quoted the reply I was talking about. You addressed me directly, implied that I told you (or the OP) to "shut up" and then left it at that, as clearly evidenced in the post above. What part of that is so hard to understand that you need to drag in a completely different post that has nothing to do with this at all? You're just talking in circles. EDIT: Cut out some of the excess quoting to save space on the page. |
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The problem with MMO gaming is innovation. Yet when a company is (or trying to be) innovating and has a good an steady following and poeple who seem to enjoy the game for now you have the OP who complain that they should not enjoy the game and not pay for it becouse it is not up to his standards. So OP with game should I subscribe to? With game has had a worthly launch and gave us everything they promised? WAR? AOC? I do agree, we should not be content with this. However I am personly not going to make a point by not playing a game with I enjoy (like WAR, do not have DF yet), becouse they did not give me what they promised. You can not expect that a indi-MMO devs will have the same standards as an mainsteam multi-million dollar company. Now shamefully AV did promised us this and I do believe this is a big mistake and will bite them in the ass, sub wise. Also what if my imagination became so dull? What is it to you? Does it alter you life if I play a video game in any way? I sort of see where you coming from. However the biggest problem is innovation, this is duo to the investors and if a game like DF will fail even more of the money will go to the somewhat secure WoW clones (I really hope that the investors and big companies now realise that 300 million dollar + WoW elements + good IP will not make a game with get you million of subscribers). Personly I think the BAR in the MMO world is already low (WAR, enjoying it, but hardly innovating!). I do not believe that investing money to play a game your enjoy and with is atleast innovating and not mainstraim will not make this lower.
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goneglockin
Advanced Member
Joined: 3/11/05
-Part of the glorious PC gaming master race since 92 |
Originally posted by GoodBadUgly
If it were true that there would never be another MMO with a similar type of principles or the same sort of vision as DF intended, then yes I'd agree with a purchase for the sake of the last hurrah. That ain't the case though. Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise. |
Originally posted by Aethios
I clearly said To Kosmos: .... That means I am not talking to you. I never said you ask the OP to shut up. I am talking about the first reply in this thread. I clearly wrote "to kosmos" and "the first reply" separately. If you cannot read, don't blame me. READ before you said something. I never put words in your mouth, I am not even talking to you on that part of the argument. Maybe I need to split 2 replies to 2 views in 2 separate replies, but with I was expecting some common reading skills from the readers here and I kinda get lazy and lump them up. Maybe I should expect less.
"If I do not read the replies that follows, the opinion from the OP is just a rant, not much. He has nothing solid to offer. What follows however are some very despotic views who seems to be based on the fact that they had paid for it. That is what upsets me. As I said, both views matter, and again both does b/c none of them are very informative. At least the OP is more polite and does not tell us to shut up. The first reply simply says shut up, which to me sounds like mad hatred driven." This is a direct quote of the post in question, and I don't see "To Kosmos:" in there anywhere. Clearly it's my reading skills that are in question here when you are simply making up text and pretending it's there when it's not. Oh but it's okay if you badmouth me here for shooting down the OP, and then at the very same moment you're in another thread ranting about how terrible Darkfall is. Right... but you're the unbiased one here, am I right? Where did I said TO kosmos? reply #14 last line. Luckily I never edit that reply. So its still original. All the rest of the discussion follows from it.
So you think I'm talking about a completely different reply even though I clearly quoted the reply I was talking about. You addressed me directly, implied that I told you (or the OP) to "shut up" and then left it at that, as clearly evidenced in the post above. What part of that is so hard to understand that you need to drag in a completely different post that has nothing to do with this at all? You're just talking in circles.
"To shut up" follows from "the view does not matter", which is Kosmos' own words. Nothing to do with you. Your view I replied in #14, then at the end I branched off to add a note to Kosmos, saying that he has no right to state that OP's view matters not. Maybe I should not talk to Kosmos in the same thread, cos you clearly does not see that my reply to you already ended and I switched to talking about Kosmos. To me, an average reading skill people should know that I mean when I start a new paragraph with the words "To Kosmos". Your reading skill is definitely in another league. |
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Originally posted by goneglockin
Anyone can learn enough about any kind of product to determine it's value. That's why we have consumer reports, reviews, customer feedback, forums, etc. If it weren't for people who settle for mediocrity you'd be happier still. Until then enjoy justifying your purchase.
You are missing out on a great game. I've played them all and, as far as I am concerned, this one is the best so far. YMMV, of course. |
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Originally posted by goneglockin
If it were true that there would never be another MMO with a similar type of principles or the same sort of vision as DF intended, then yes I'd agree with a purchase for the sake of the last hurrah. That ain't the case though.
Perhaps not "forever" but certainly for a long time. Investors always look at the trends from the past and make sweeping assumptions about things that happened, especially in games. If a FFA full-loot PvP game fails, it's clearly because people don't like FFA full-loot PvP and has nothing to do with the poor communication, poor billing, lack of server space, constant crashing, or whatever other problems there may be with the game. If Darkfall fails, it will absolutely have repercussions within this industry. To want it to die simply because it's "not good enough" is silly; play it anyways, show them you like these sorts of games, and then wait for someone else to make a better one. |
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Originally posted by Orthedos
At this point I can't tell if you're serious, or just jerking my chain. If it's the former, you really need to learn to read and you really need to learn to stop assuming it's everyone else that can't. I've clearly quoted in every single reply so that you could see what you said (since you obviously have no idea) and yet you STILL don't recognize your own writing. Stop throwing around insults and read the damn thread. If it's the latter then you really need to find a better hobby. |
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Originally posted by dimmit77
Indeed but then since he stop short of giving his recommendations, I would only stop reading there and wait for any additional information he might give later. I am patient, and he does not owe me a full elaboration. This is just a message board. I share some of his disgust about some of the popular entertainment, that does not follow that I would agree with what he would like. After all that is his preference. Some might overlap with might, some might not, and we are both entitled to our own. |
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Originally posted by Aethios
At this point I can't tell if you're serious, or just jerking my chain. If it's the former, you really need to learn to read and you really need to learn to stop assuming it's everyone else that can't. I've clearly quoted in every single reply so that you could see what you said (since you obviously have no idea) and yet you STILL don't recognize your own writing. Stop throwing around insults and read the damn thread. If it's the latter then you really need to find a better hobby.
I have told you what I typed. I told you it starts from "to Kosmos" and you have nothing to do with it. "matters not" are kosmos' words, not yours, and I infer that to mean Kosmos ask the OP to shut up. I never said its you, it all follows from the first reply which is Kosmos'. If you insist, ok, go ahead and insist. You won't get a noble prize. Nor would I lose a dime. |
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Originally posted by Coman
The problem with MMO's is not thay they lack innovation imo. It is that they try to appeal to everyone instead of having a vision of what the game should be and sticking with it. You cannot keep the carebears, the hardcores, the sandboxers, the ones that play 2 hours a week , the ones that playe 5 hours a day, the ones that like raids , the ones that don't , the pvp'ers all happy. Just your audience and try to make a game specifically for them. That's what I think anyways. |
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goneglockin
Advanced Member
Joined: 3/11/05
-Part of the glorious PC gaming master race since 92 |
Originally posted by Coman
None. Did it ever occur to you that you could play something else besides MMOs? Do something else besides play video games entirely? I only actually buy a game once every year or so, sometimes two years. Most simply aren't worth it. You can still play those other games, you just don't have to pay for them. I haven't bought anything this year so far and last year's purchase was Fallout 3. I've had the chance to try lots of MMOs for free through friends, trials or beta but I've only actually ever subscribed to two. Ultima Online and PlanetSide.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise. |
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To the OP, I totally agree with your sentiment. I've been playing MMO's for years and following these and other forums for equally as long and I'm always amazed by the zeal with which some folks will buy and play utter and complete trash. However, I've learned that nothing I say will have any effect whatsoever on the folks who buy this crap. Their rationale is literally beyond my comprehension, and probably beyond yours. Maybe they're just smarter than us... |
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goneglockin
Advanced Member
Joined: 3/11/05
-Part of the glorious PC gaming master race since 92 |
Originally posted by Aethios
If it were true that there would never be another MMO with a similar type of principles or the same sort of vision as DF intended, then yes I'd agree with a purchase for the sake of the last hurrah. That ain't the case though.
Perhaps not "forever" but certainly for a long time. Investors always look at the trends from the past and make sweeping assumptions about things that happened, especially in games. If a FFA full-loot PvP game fails, it's clearly because people don't like FFA full-loot PvP and has nothing to do with the poor communication, poor billing, lack of server space, constant crashing, or whatever other problems there may be with the game. If Darkfall fails, it will absolutely have repercussions within this industry. To want it to die simply because it's "not good enough" is silly; play it anyways, show them you like these sorts of games, and then wait for someone else to make a better one.
Earthrise is in development and it is certainly in the same camp as darkfall. It'd be a shame for them to take notice of Darkfall's shoddy release and decide they can always lower their standards. Just for the sake of example. Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise. |
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Look I'm not saying DF is the best game ever made. But at least they tried something new. They looked at what MMOs were and they said let's take a different approach. In some places they have pretty much cut and paste other systems and in other places they have tried new and innovative approachs. TBH I think they should have started smaller. Av should have put DF on the back burner and come back to it when they had more experience with gaming and the gaming industry. But I also worry that those experiences would have tainted the final product and lead to another clone of what the big wigs think we want. Even as it is now DF stands to offer me what no other game has ever offered me. Conflict. Battle. True Battle. Not the meaningless fights in other games, but War! War that hurts the innocent and makes you care about the outcome. War that could leave you naked and stranded in hostile territory. War that makes you wonder if I lose this fight... what will I do tommorow? I want drama, Real human drama between real human people! ...but where when you die you get to try again... because dieing IRL sucks. :P So basically I want all the pain and suffering and challenges of the real world but with more than one try, because I always fuck up the first time :D Will DF offer me that? IDK, IDC but it's a step in the right direction and thats worth a few bucks. |
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Originally posted by goneglockin
None. Did it ever occur to you that you could play something else besides MMOs? Do something else besides play video games entirely? I only actually buy a game once every year or so, sometimes two years. Most simply aren't worth it. You can still play those other games, you just don't have to pay for them. I haven't bought anything this year so far and last year's purchase was Fallout 3. I've had the chance to try lots of MMOs for free through friends, trials or beta but I've only actually ever subscribed to two. Ultima Online and PlanetSide.
You blame him cause it didn't occur to him ,that a person posting in MMORPG doesnt like massive multiplayer online games, and tries to convince us not to also? I give up, you need serious medical help. And I don't mean pills. I am reffering to the serious electroshock treatments. |
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gaiusmarius
 MMORPG.COM Staff
Joined: 7/28/08
Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there. |
Thread is locked due to multiple baiting and flaming.
Games Played: |
I don't understand. In one paragraph you lecture about people buying from companys that release the same game or the same movie over and over. Then you lecture them about spurning mainstream MMOs. I'm sorry but am I the only one who looked at WAR and said WoW with different lore? Am the only one that felt like every fight in WoW was exactly the same? The day I quit WoW was when I realized the one part that had always enthralled me, which was 40v40 massive battles in AV, basically boiled down to a race to see who could kill a raid boss faster. I LOVED it when someone fucked up a premade and we actually had to fight other players for a change. 