Mount and Blade Multiplayer is going to be so awesome.

Originally posted by spire23

As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade.

<@Teth> I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV

<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that

and

<TBC-Captain> so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B? :)

<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23

from

http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=lxcjjn77ep&highlight=mount%20and%20blade

As it stands, it's great that manual aiming is in, but combat is alot more like wack-a-mole that wacks you back then M&B. 

Maybe someone should have asked 'how close is DF combat to Wack-a-mole?'

Originally posted by spire23

Originally posted by jimsmith08

Originally posted by leone2nd

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Not to mention the weight of the sword, the size of the sword, and what the sword is shaped like really can make a difference in melee.  I was to understand the combat on this game was supposed to rival Mount & Blade.... please go on the Mount & Blade forums and read how into realism the posters get there to get the developers to make improvements to enhance the reality of combat.

 

Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?

 

That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.

In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.

As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.

 

Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.

 

And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."

 

As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.

 

My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply"  is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.

 

 

http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article-1776-Exclusive-Mount--Blade-Multiplayer-Interview-with-Armagan-Yavuz.html
 

I never stated it was "being made into an mmo",I said it was going to be online.And come on,you cant blame the fans for making things up.Tasos has been coming out with allsorts over the last few years.remember the one about mobs that smell you in the air,and can track you from miles away?

Originally posted by xaldraxius

 

---

Originally posted by EndDream
if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel =)

---

 

Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.

You can't spam potions and food anymore.

I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues.

Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead.

Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).

You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina.

Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry.

Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach.

You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back.
You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground.

You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage.

You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity.

Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic,  melee attacks and  avoid hitting friends.

Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters.

Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements.

And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.

Originally posted by Seranis

Originally posted by spire23

As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade.

 

<@Teth> I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV

<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that

 

 

and

<TBC-Captain> so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B? :)

<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23

from

http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=lxcjjn77ep&highlight=mount%20and%20blade

As it stands, it's great that manual aiming is in, but combat is alot more like wack-a-mole that wacks you back then M&B. 

Maybe someone should have asked 'how close is DF combat to Wack-a-mole?'

 

 

TBC-Captain ... too funny. That's my boy; I was the Lt of TBC for a long time. The Black Company has long awaited the release of Darkfall, to be sure.

But, still, those are pretty nebulous questions and the answers are vague, at best. What aspect of M&B combat were they talking about? The pixel-collision system? The moving your mouse to the right to strike on the right side of your opponent? The weapons being expendable and mundane? The combat happening from horseback, including archery?

I'm sure that there are similarities ... 7.23? I mean, he obviously was joking with his answer because the question itself (no offence, Capt), was pretty poorly constructed. "On a scale of 1-10, how similar is this hotdog to a muffin?" I mean, they're both food ... you eat them the same way, more or less ... how do you quantify or qualify an answer to that question using only the numbers 1 through 10?

Anyway, you've made your point all the same ... if they didn't want people to think that they had directional controls on a per-swing basis, I suppose Claus should have been more specific in his answers. Which only goes back to a sentiment I've maintained for years: the developers aren't supposed to be good at PR, they're supposed to be locked in a dungeon, coding. But this is a trend we will see more and more of as indie devs get their act together (in other words, it may get worse before it gets better): they know how to program, but they work on such shoestring budgets that they can't afford to staff the "soft" positions in a company, like a Publicist or a PR manager or a CR Manager, etc. So you get devs who know what they *want* to program speaking with an audience without an edit button or a handler.

This is one way in which Funcom and CCP have always impressed me. Gaute Gotinger (sp?) made some early mistakes with AO, but he learned from those errors and went on to become a very good game director, who could double effectively as a PR agent and spokesman for his titles.

---

Originally posted by Blindchance

---

Originally posted by xaldraxius

 

---

Originally posted by EndDream
if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel =)

---

 
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.

---

You can't spam potions and food anymore.
I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues.
Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead.
Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).
 
You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina.
Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry.
Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach.
You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back.
You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground.
You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage.
You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity.
Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic,  melee attacks and  avoid hitting friends.
Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters.
Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements.
And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.
 

---

Hmmm.. sounds like they are improving things a lot since what I heard about beta. Thanks, and thanks for providing this info without being a dick. This is the kind of response that helps a game out rather than making the people playing it sound like elitist knobgobblers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vU_GZI0Ses&feature=related

I think this is one of the most creative attack systems. Similar to Darkfall in that it requires movement and targeting and doesn't just lock on and use some crazy formula to decide if you hit or not.

The question was

<@Teth> I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV

the answer

<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
 

Then

so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B? :)

answer

<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23

He rated its similarity at a seven.He didnt say "oh no,it wont be similar to that at all" or anything like that.He said they were "very close". Im sure if you dug around you'd find much more on the subject about how similar it was going to be abnd how good the combat was going to be in general,but as WSImike said,its just like doing a 180.

Originally posted by jimsmith08

The question was

<@Teth> I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV

the answer

<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
 

Then

so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B? :)

answer

<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23

He rated its similarity at a seven.He didnt say "oh no,it wont be similar to that at all" or anything like that.He said they were "very close". Im sure if you dug around you'd find much more on the subject about how similar it was going to be abnd how good the combat was going to be in general,but as WSImike said,its just like doing a 180.

It IS very close to M&B. You aim your sword, you aim your bow, the arrows are effected by flight patterns, sword works in the same way.

What IS missing, is momentum based damage, and being able to hold your attack before swinging (and the way directional swings work, but I think directional swings (theres only 3 directions in Darkfall) and momentum based damage would be extremely hard to pull off in a MASSIVE MMO. Limitations of tech. 

Play the game first please.

From the sound of things, combat has improved a lot since beta, but even in beta I found that winning combat took a lot more than just spamming your mouse button.

This is the first MMO where I've had to use advantages in flanking, cover, and positioning to win.  Granted, they were useful in other MMO's, but not nearly so much so as I've found them to be in the beta for this game.

I remember dancing around trees, rocks, and other players to frustrate my attackers.  I remember hiding behind a shield to recover a bit of health while my enemies spent their stamina uselessly.  I remember one on one battles that would see both myself and my opponent backing up and trying to circle around one another while our stamina regenerated.  I remember dashing from rock to tree, using the land as cover as I advanced on a caster's position.

I found these things worked amazingly well against the people who just spammed sprint & click.

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by xaldraxius

 

---

Originally posted by EndDream
if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel =)

---

 

Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.

You can't spam potions and food anymore.

I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues.

Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead.

Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).

 

You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina.

Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry.

Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach.

You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back.
You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground.

You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage.

You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity.

Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic,  melee attacks and  avoid hitting friends.

Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters.

Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements.

And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.

 

In a way you kinda countered your own argument. If blocking eats up your stamina, that player is still achiving somthing. Even if you block, your only blocking frontal attacks.

the other poster mentioned of strafing to hit you from behind. thus he is NOT focusing attacks to your front. Even if there is a timer which some people alreadty mentioned it is short. you can still time your potions.  A good strafer will dodge you till he can use another pot. Just the same way as he will time his attacks when he gets a good chance to swing. You keep assuming that sprint ,strafe n attackers keep swinging like crazy. Naw theres a difference in between newbs and good players.

DF will never be like M&B untill they implement more hitboxes.

Df doesnt have headshots, m&b does.

Df doesnt have a hitbox for shields that you can shoot over or under to hit your target. (those 2 things require multiple hitboxes wich df doesnt have.)

Df does have horizontal swings and a over head swing. (left/right is also aimed now after some patch.)

Df only needs to adjust blocking abit so you can do a counter attack or something.

Df is simular to M&B and the rate of 7/10 isnt that bad when it comes to melee, archery and mounted combat.  (although you cant do archery on a mount wich is a shame but understandable)

 LOL, reading the haters in this thread is funny, some are just trolls and dont give a f***, others are ignorant Haters who actually believe themselves.

Let me tell u what I did today.

My group got ambushed by some ppl that was mad at us.

RIGHT AND PROPER AMBUSHED, major props to the attackers for that.

U see they had been fighting some Greyorks earlier, and we knew those guys are pretty tough. 

So at the time we went to check it up, and sure enough, one of them had died.

We got our ninjamasks on and went in for the loot, suffice it to say THIS pissed them off.

They where more then us, and even thou they had all been fighting we had no intention of going red just over this, so we retreated and rested.

Then we decided to head for the town to bank our stuff, but we where in for a surprise.

The guys had figured we where headed in that direction and hid behind several stones in our path, jumping out attacking us from all sides.

AWESOME.

But on to the point.

During the fight I got into a melee battle with one guy

I timed his slow hitting sword by jumping in and out taking no damage, while scoring a hit with all of mine.

Then another guy joined us, well I started circling them together so they where now hitting each other with every other swing. That made the second guy think twice as he ran back and started using mana missile, at which point I decided to hug the first guy and make sure the Mana missiles hit us both.

But now I was taking dmg from the the first guy and the second guy didnt really seem to care about hitting his friend since i was going down faster.

So I ran, and ran and ran, they got two of my friends, but I and the majority of us managed to get away.

There is alot more to combat in Darkfall then a random clickfest, and anyone tihnking it is needs to play the game.

-Darkstar

Originally posted by Darkstar111

 LOL, reading the haters in this thread is funny, some are just trolls and dont give a f***, others are ignorant Haters who actually believe themselves.

 

Let me tell u what I did today.

My group got ambushed by some ppl that was mad at us.

RIGHT AND PROPER AMBUSHED, major props to the attackers for that.

U see they had been fighting some Greyorks earlier, and we knew those guys are pretty tough. 

So at the time we went to check it up, and sure enough, one of them had died.

 

We got our ninjamasks on and went in for the loot, suffice it to say THIS pissed them off.

 

They where more then us, and even thou they had all been fighting we had no intention of going red just over this, so we retreated and rested.

 

Then we decided to head for the town to bank our stuff, but we where in for a surprise.

The guys had figured we where headed in that direction and hid behind several stones in our path, jumping out attacking us from all sides.

 

AWESOME.

 

But on to the point.

 

During the fight I got into a melee battle with one guy

I timed his slow hitting sword by jumping in and out taking no damage, while scoring a hit with all of mine.

Then another guy joined us, well I started circling them together so they where now hitting each other with every other swing. That made the second guy think twice as he ran back and started using mana missile, at which point I decided to hug the first guy and make sure the Mana missiles hit us both.

 

But now I was taking dmg from the the first guy and the second guy didnt really seem to care about hitting his friend since i was going down faster.

 

So I ran, and ran and ran, they got two of my friends, but I and the majority of us managed to get away.

 

There is alot more to combat in Darkfall then a random clickfest, and anyone tihnking it is needs to play the game.

 

 

-Darkstar

 

 

 

 

And you seem to be a storyteller.... i dont know what the fuck you reply adds to this thread... just another random history of some "random event" from those few who are actually playing?

I could do some really fantastic histories about AoConan experience, and it would change that it sux or has flaws?

One side is: DFO pvp system seems better that most mmo around.

Other side: it is not wonderful and has the mentioned flaws.

About the Real life combat system, or realistic in mmo.... roflmao. A shield may handle 2-3 hits, and them crumble, a  hit (sword, mace) can end the fight , a wrong move = death or maimed, etc etc etc. So, no mmo has realistic combat, it may have FEELING (in your personal opinion), but FAR from being realistic. Not to mention there are no "heal potions or heath restore combat stuff".

Skill in a mmo = master it mechanics. Nothing with "i am better ownz0rd mothafucka". It only means u can handle the mechanics better that the other player. So stop with this "player skill will win mechanics flaws" crap talk.

---

Originally posted by Darkstar111
 LOL, reading the haters in this thread is funny, some are just trolls and dont give a f***, others are ignorant Haters who actually believe themselves.
 
Let me tell u what I did today.
My group got ambushed by some ppl that was mad at us.
RIGHT AND PROPER AMBUSHED, major props to the attackers for that.
U see they had been fighting some Greyorks earlier, and we knew those guys are pretty tough. 
So at the time we went to check it up, and sure enough, one of them had died.
 
We got our ninjamasks on and went in for the loot, suffice it to say THIS pissed them off.
 
They where more then us, and even thou they had all been fighting we had no intention of going red just over this, so we retreated and rested.
 
Then we decided to head for the town to bank our stuff, but we where in for a surprise.
The guys had figured we where headed in that direction and hid behind several stones in our path, jumping out attacking us from all sides.
 
AWESOME.
 
But on to the point.
 
During the fight I got into a melee battle with one guy
I timed his slow hitting sword by jumping in and out taking no damage, while scoring a hit with all of mine.
Then another guy joined us, well I started circling them together so they where now hitting each other with every other swing. That made the second guy think twice as he ran back and started using mana missile, at which point I decided to hug the first guy and make sure the Mana missiles hit us both.
 
But now I was taking dmg from the the first guy and the second guy didnt really seem to care about hitting his friend since i was going down faster.
 
So I ran, and ran and ran, they got two of my friends, but I and the majority of us managed to get away.
 
There is alot more to combat in Darkfall then a random clickfest, and anyone tihnking it is needs to play the game.
 
 
-Darkstar
 
 
 
 

---

Oy. You don't have to hit return after every damn sentence, it just makes you look like you are begging for attention. I'm glad you take amusement from trolls though, it's really all I aim to do with my trolling. Even if I just make myself laugh it's something.

Oh, and no one wants to read your long ass boring story. So you had a battle and there was some tactics to it, big deal, you make it sound like you're some 'Uber pro' and that just cuts your credibility to nothing. Try not sounding like a smug jackass and people may respond better to you. It's people who make long ass 'I'm so 1337' posts like yours that give the whole game a bad name and gives trolls, like me, a reason to hate it.

Good post, Darkstar. Let the haters hate...

Your signature makes it difficult for me to take you seriously.

---

Originally posted by Borkotron
Good post, Darkstar. Let the haters hate...

---

You are seriously saying that you think that his long ass post, long on empty space not content, was good? Or did you find his compelling and completely honest storytelling "jumping in and out taking no damage, while scoring a hit with all of mine" to be 'all that'?

Way to stick together fanbois.

Jumping in and out can be done in counter strike knife fights. Why were you not using block and parry? And why were you jumping around like that,surely you were wasting stamina?