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Originally posted by Slackerboy
I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I could care less who implimented this idea first.
I am sure many game developers have thought about putting tools in their users hands to allow them to create content. Heck FPS games have been doing it for years.
Maybe we should give credit for this idea to ID for the level editor in Doom. After all that allowed players to make content and publish it.
Who cares? Me I just am glad to see it added to CoX.

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Amen, again.

SynEater - are you the owner of the character by the same name on Liberty?

If so, you gave my partner a good laugh. He happened to see the character in Talos, so he sent me a screenshot saying "Note the hero's name? Friend of yours? :D" The reason this is funny? I have a villainess who is a female succubus named "Dark as Syn", human form name Syndi Johansson, who generally goes by "Syn".... hehe.

Pretty informative review. I have been thinking of resubbing but ehh...

VuDu lol it might have been I do have a few alts running around in Lib but I am primarily on Protector and now Freedom and I do have a few toons named that :)

but my mains are Recluse's hand on vills and Azure on Heores :)

Hehe. I only play on Liberty (as does my partner). The character (Syn eater) had long white and hair and was dressed in a white outfit with a white trench coat. He was a level 26 tank.

My Syn is probably one of my two favorite villains. The other is Xandra, my ice/thermal corruptor (also an ice/thermal controller when she sneaks off to Paragon City). But I really enjoy playing Syn (Dark/Dark/? -haven't picked her patron yet... still trying to decide which would fit into her story the best).

I just noticed the nickname and it reminded me of that character in the screenshot he sent me, and I had to giggle.

I am looking forward to this going live.. As for SWG, Ryzom, and whatever other game did what, who cares? It's not something I needed to know in the article. MMO fun-facts are essentially useless. However, I will admit that the idea of this always makes me wanna get back into Neverwinter Nights. But I wouldn't have wanted him to mention NWN in the article. No need to veer off-track for no good reason.

Nice review. I dropped my sub when they pushed the release of Architect back, but I'll definitely be resubbing when it's released. I'm slighlty disappointed at the inability to place NPCs and items in specific locations, but as you said, randomness has been part of CoH since the beginning. As for the Ring, who cares if it was first? It has nothing to do with the article. Besides, having used the Ring, I can say that Architect looks far more user-friendly and is integrated nicely. Not to mention that the Ring hasn't been updated in years; we can expect Architect to be updated regularly.

If people want to give credit where credit is due, then why not go back to the days of muds?  Some MUDS allowed the top end players to get tools to create new content.  Basically all of these modern tools are because of that earlier work.

Hi all,

Much as I like to be exceedingly positive about the player-made-content notion (I tried The Ring in Ryzom too; NWN of course way back)...I have one major objection.

The *one* thing nearly all my friends who play or have played CoX agree on (and many have left because of this) is that the areas are indeed (as mentioned by others) too repetitive.

I think not allowing map editing not only is the worst possible shortcoming this much anticipated feature/update can have...quite frankly I fail to see how you can call it 'Architect' without this.

But the name is not the problem. The very last thing I expected (or want) is prefab maps.

My interest has evaporated. What a pity. I will see if it gets added in the (near) future.

Lucas aka Xin Yue/Eruptic & others on Liberty.

* Since the more fair and crystal is the sky,
* The uglier seem the clouds that in it fly
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* Richard III

Who knows, in the not too distant future there may be a map editor in the works and it will get patched into the game along with various other improvements to the Architect system, after all that is the beauty of these games they are able to be modified by the devs in whatever direction they want, nothing is written in stone.

I wouldn't look at the Architect system as being something that isn't going to change in the future, everything gets tweaked/modified/altered in all MMO's. I would just be happy that it's going to make it into the game rather than just sitting on someones desk as a good idea but not worth implementing due to present day constraints not enabling everything the players want, it's like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

It's a good feature and it become more and more common in games to have user-created content. It's by no means anything new, especially if you've been a pc gamer for untold years, but it's kinda new to mmo's. I just hope they let them make long chains, as already in the game from all the contacts scattered around.

Back to dinging my defender

Actually, I think a Map Editor would bog down the whole thing with unnecessary complications that just aren't worth it. Sure, it might be pretty keen to have a different map to have your super-battle in; but quite honestly, I'd rather have a good story. I'm skeptical that the tech-heads [and Counter-Strike fans] that a Map Editor would cater to the most, would be able to put together a decent enough story to make the pretty maps worth the run-through.

I was a fairly long time player of CoH, and enjoyed my time while I was there.  However, I would have to say one of the the top reasons I left it was because of the repeating missions.  They all felt the same to me.  There were only so many "deactiveate bombs", "rescue", or "kill all" missions I could do before I got totally bored.  So what exactly would be an incentive for someone like me to come back?  What am I missing?  Instead of computer generated missions, you now have player generated missions using the same coding to create them.

I mean woudln't a "Malta: Kill All" mission generated by the computer be the same thing if a player created the mission with the same parameters?  Maybe just with the different randomly generated map layouts as usual.

one benefit i see from the architech is being able to build specific scenarios for the purpose of loot farming

Originally posted by giggal

one benefit i see from the architech is being able to build specific scenarios for the purpose of loot farming

They have a system in place that prevents farming.

If this works this could set a new standard for MMOs as a whole.  Look at it from a developer's standpoint, they wouldn't have to make as much content anymore as their own playerbase would be doing it... for free. 

The rating system should be helpful to players as well as designers.  Not sure what makes a good mission?  Hop into a high-rated one and check it out.

Originally posted by slask777

It's a good feature and it become more and more common in games to have user-created content. It's by no means anything new, especially if you've been a pc gamer for untold years, but it's kinda new to mmo's. I just hope they let them make long chains, as already in the game from all the contacts scattered around.

Back to dinging my defender

From what has been said on the main site, its not so much a mission creator, as it is a mission arc creator. So yes it will be just like the story chains the contacts send you on. I believe they said you make a 5 mission arc and can have three published arcs at a time. You can have as many as you want stored or in development, but only three published at a time. If your arc gets into the hall of fame or the devs mark it as a Dev's Choice it will free up one of your three published arcs and I believe become a permanant addition to the game.

Originally posted by Slackerboy

The only release date I heard was "soon".

However as this is still in internal beta, not even on the test server. I would bet a month or more before we see it on live servers.

I say let them take the time they need, get it right then release. I really hate bugs. (Makes one wonder why I do so many betas)

Actually, the game has been in closed beta testing since Friday the 13th (Hope there's no bad luck).

I had been a long time player of CoX on and off for three years, but I have to say that this game just keeps going downhill every update. Everything that was ever good in the past was ALWAYS nerfed, which was constantly annoying. And about this new update, missions are missions... and this isn't going to make it any more exciting than it already isn't. Sure it's user created, but it's still the same old boring missions that make up CoX. I for one never did read any of the in-game dialog on any mission whatsoever when I played, what's the point? They killed the end game content with Hamidon way back, there's really no point to get the new enhancements because your character is still able to do just as good with regular SOs at level 50. So there's really no one enemy group or any type of mission that calls for you to have IO's, it's just a matter of preference whether you wanna waste time earning money to get them. If you're REALLY bored you can get all the badges in the game and show them off to people who could care less. I quit playing this game a year ago and went to WoW, and honestly, neither this update or previous updates appeal one bit to me to renew. This game is heading in the wrong direction in my opinion and I'd be surprised if it's still around in another year. I think it's kinda sad when a game comes down to relying on users for content, unless it's for some sorta prize.

Originally posted by BigBroly

I had been a long time player of CoX on and off for three years, but I have to say that this game just keeps going downhill every update. Everything that was ever good in the past was ALWAYS nerfed, which was constantly annoying. And about this new update, missions are missions... and this isn't going to make it any more exciting than it already isn't. Sure it's user created, but it's still the same old boring missions that make up CoX. I for one never did read any of the in-game dialog on any mission whatsoever when I played, what's the point? They killed the end game content with Hamidon way back, there's really no point to get the new enhancements because your character is still able to do just as good with regular SOs at level 50. So there's really no one enemy group or any type of mission that calls for you to have IO's, it's just a matter of preference whether you wanna waste time earning money to get them. If you're REALLY bored you can get all the badges in the game and show them off to people who could care less. I quit playing this game a year ago and went to WoW, and honestly, neither this update or previous updates appeal one bit to me to renew. This game is heading in the wrong direction in my opinion and I'd be surprised if it's still around in another year. I think it's kinda sad when a game comes down to relying on users for content, unless it's for some sorta prize.

If it's just players making more of the same old repetative type missions, I don't see it being that much of a benefit to the players.  If it introduces some new options and variety, I can see it being a nice addition.  I used to like being a GM for old-school pencil and paper RPG's.  Great fun if you're given the tools to do neat, unexpected things.  I don't know if this will be possible in CoH.  I guess time will tell.

I was looking forward to this system when they (A) pushed it back, and (B) introduced drastic, unwanted revamps to the game in the last issue instead.  (A) wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for (B).  This move on NCsoft's part simply killed my interest after playing the game for 3 years.

If I play a hero MMO again, it'll probably be Champions.

Originally posted by BigBroly
I for one never did read any of the in-game dialog on any mission whatsoever when I played, what's the point?

About the same point as reading a book or magazine or doing anything other than repeatedly mashing buttons I suppose. 

 The people who've cancelled their subscriptions in the past because of this or that issue not living up to their expectations seem more than a little grouchy and I'm  glad such people aren't playing the game anymore and I cordially invite you all  to not resubscribe. ;)

CoH has a ton of very creative gamers and while there undoubtedly will be a lot of garbage generated by the Mission Architect I expect that they will also do wonders with it and with the map editor which will most likely one day be part of it as there is already a base builder feature in the game.

I know a lot of players, not just in CoH, that don't read the ingame lore.  Personally, I always read it.  I don't want to just know that I have to defeat 20 hellions, I want to know why I have to defeat them.   I'll admit I am a bit of a lore-junkie not just in CoH but in any of the MMO's I have played before.

As far as repetative player missions, I don't see that will be a problem.  Player made missions that are boring will get low rated and few people will play them.  Pretty sure that those people that don't want to make any missions aren't going to start playing the ones everyone rates as "crappy".

Originally posted by DrowNoble

I know a lot of players, not just in CoH, that don't read the ingame lore.  Personally, I always read it.  I don't want to just know that I have to defeat 20 hellions, I want to know why I have to defeat them.   I'll admit I am a bit of a lore-junkie not just in CoH but in any of the MMO's I have played before.

As far as repetative player missions, I don't see that will be a problem.  Player made missions that are boring will get low rated and few people will play them.  Pretty sure that those people that don't want to make any missions aren't going to start playing the ones everyone rates as "crappy".

Still, missions are missions.. they're bound to get old after a few rounds. As usual, players will have seen all, done all in a matter of hours after release of the issue. You might wonder why they separated issue 13 and issue 14 to be released as two different issues.. well, I would argue that quite frankly, City of Heroes just have nothing more to offer anymore and relying on user content as an 'issue' isn't appealing. There's always a huge spike in the number of players for each issue's release and that's why they want to milk this game as much as they can. I'm sure those hardcore City of Heroes players will disagree with me, but whether you want to support trash or not is your decision.

The reason they separated Issue 13 day jobs from the Issue 14 Architect had to do with them adding more features to the Architect.  Before you would of picked pre-made villain models, now you can customize every aspect of the mission you are creating.  This, of course, led to more time having to be spent on the Architect designing.  So rather than have this long draught between Issue 12 and 13, they just released the day jobs and content they  had as Issue 13 and pushed Architect to Issue 14.  Good move on their part.

NCSoft wanting to "milk" this game implies the game is dying.  Which if you look at subscription numbers is not correct.  Since Issue 9 (crafting) the subs have gone up.  They don't match the numbers of That Other Game, but you don't need millions of subs to be profitable.  Heck DAoC is still up and running with only about 50k subs, CoH has thrice that.

Don't forget that the reason numbers spike on Issue release is that NCSoft gives all previous players a few free days of play.  I don't see Blizzard offering people a free weekend of WoW when a major patch comes out.  EA-Mythic hasn't sent me anything about trying out my old Albion characters for a weekend free. 

I think Architect will open up entire realms of possibility for RP groups, and i'm considering resubbing at the end of the month (when I have the monies ) and joining one of them. Whilst in terms of gameplay you'll be doing the same old clearout/bomb/click the glowing things, the context/custom villains and mobs/narrative dialogue should provide a lot of fuel for storylines.

Regarding the complexity of the editors and stuff, I don't really care about not having control over the exact map layout/glowy/mob placement, and I commend NCSoft for streamlining out ultimately unecessary steps and keeping it accessable.