Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Could anybody please explain to me how what people did was exploiting in any way? I did see it happen, while I myself couldn't really get into it for my character still be ill equipped and myself struggling to get into the controls as I was no beta tester.

However, I could easily see how it works and what people did in my opinion was just standing on the known spawn, waiting till they get hit by the "invisible" (unsynced) mobs to fight back in the direction they get hit from. This didn't work for me that well, but who am I to blame if some others adopt to the current situation better than me? To me, that's not exploting but adjusting to the game dynamics at hand. It's not like those fellows would do any better than they would if the game would be in perfect shape.

Anybody could have done so who was very active during the first hours (which I myself and most of my clan couldn't due to RL obligations), as I perceived it as if you needed some minimum level of stats and equipment for it to work. - So if those that invested the most time and got the best control of the situation are getting a benefit others are struggling to achieve, that's perfectly normal in my book. If the server would have been in optimal shape, I dare to say we would actually be facing exactly the same situation, the same guilds owning the same cities, as, to put it simply, they appear to be the best currently. Most likely they'd only have achieved the same a little bit faster without the sync issues.

So relax a bit, refrain from crying for the first wipe for such a marginal thing and rethink for what to call people exploiters. The servers merely were up a few hours, we hardly managed to learn to know each others and the naming & shaming starts already. Let AV try and fix the technical issues first. The server is anything but over populated, leaving enough room for everybody to have fun and achieve goals.

You have no idea what exploits were used in attaining large amounts of gold, used to buy cities and keys to chests, so please refrain from talking about the exploits.

 

As far as the sync goes, servers should have been brought down so everyone was on an equal playing field.

All in all, the sync issues plus people exploiting the hell out of a few things should be sufficient enough for a server wipe, be ready to reclaim your character name.

 

 

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming! I'm not talking aobut explaining them here, but so far no one came up with any furhter explanation why and where there would have been those exploits, while still accsuing others of using them.

I saw some of those powerhouses at work, and my impression was that they're able to achieve their goals within the boundaries of game dynamics as they are, but I might be wrong there. In any way, is it too much ask for a clarification on the accusations at hand? How do you expect to win others for your idea of the wipe if you don't come up with any additional information?

I for one would happily follow the idea of a wipe if indeed those achievement would have been based on 100% exploiting, and rerolling is not an issue at all for me personally, as, I think I already stated that, I didn't have the time to do anything more but some casual gaming yesterday anyway.

 

If you read through the thread before clicking the title and replying, you would have seen I have mentioned the same exploit 2 or 3 times.

I'm not going to go into details about it, as I don't know if they have fixed it or not. It has to do with mobs and water, it is known by a large group of people, and this is like someone said "only the tip of the iceberg".

 

There are several other exploits still in the game after beta, once they are fixed I will gladly tell you how they were done. I'm sure a little google searching would turn them up for you too however.

 

Oh, no worries, I read that. However, you don't honestly suggest the clan cities up now were fully achieved by exploiting such a minor bug, especially when it's perfectly possible to achieve exactly the same outcome without it in the same time frame, do you?

The people I saw farming at least weren't all sitting in the water, they were rather sitting in the middle of spawns and killing at an amazing rate in spite of the sync issues. Witnessing was kind of amazing to me, as I myself had seroious trouble to get anything done, but it looked far from anything I'd call exploiting.

Anyway, I don't really care if we get a wipe or not. I just don't see it change anything. It will just be the same clans having the first major achievements again. If you and others are feeling better after waht will be nothing but a short rewind, so be it, fine with me.

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming!

Several of the exploits have already been listed in this thread and have nothing to do with the synch problems, they are minor in comparison. I listed two of them but they all revolve around flaws in the ai code, it is extremely easy to bug the ai’s pathing, so that they stand motionless and defenceless while players kill and loot. Even the hardest mobs in the game can be exploited this way (the exception being dragons as they fly above you), this gave certain beta guilds a huge advantage in being able to go and zerk some of the best loot drops in game on day one.

The problems were hashed to death throughout beta and the devs were well aware it would be a concern if launched as is, while they did tweak the ai code several times they never sorted out the problems before launch.

Perhaps you should have taken the time to read the thread before trying to jump on the bandwagon with your 2 cents.

Where? In the starter area goblin camp?

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about, or what I'm talking about.

It will hopefully get sorted out.

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming!

Several of the exploits have already been listed in this thread and have nothing to do with the synch problems, they are minor in comparison. I listed two of them but they all revolve around flaws in the ai code, it is extremely easy to bug the ai’s pathing, so that they stand motionless and defenceless while players kill and loot. Even the hardest mobs in the game can be exploited this way (the exception being dragons as they fly above you), this gave certain beta guilds a huge advantage in being able to go and zerk some of the best loot drops in game on day one.

The problems were hashed to death throughout beta and the devs were well aware it would be a concern if launched as is, while they did tweak the ai code several times they never sorted out the problems before launch.

Perhaps you should have taken the time to read the thread before trying to jump on the bandwagon with your 2 cents.

Thanks a load Hex, that's exactly the kind of reasonable explanation I was looking for.

No further questions :)

Edit for Karlmahi:

No, I wasn't talking aobut goblins and starter area. As I didn't feel like I could do too much in the sarter area, I was running around a lot:

Either way, sorted on my end after what Hex managed to combine into an informative post. What is explained there might well warrant a wipe.

 The game is absolutely perfect for macroing, haxoring, and sploiting. Really mot good for a competative game. I am not sure there is a solution for AV at this point of time.

I would say to everyone that wants to play beg steal or borrow (or write your own, its trivial) macro 'clicker'  make sure your toon is training some skill 24/7 (resist the urge to pkay too often, playing early on is going to gimp your toon). Join a clan that cheats ,cheats often, and cheats hard. Within a week or two the gap between exploiters and those playing straight will be pretty much un closeable (if anyone playing straight hangs around).-  It wouldn't hurt to get a speedhack too.

At the very very least you gotta gotta macro.

Originally posted by RebquistDF

Just to play devil's advocate.. Is is fair for the clans that planned and coordinated to wake up to a wiped server?

If they abused a bug, yes it is. I believe only those who abused an unintended mechanic are the ones with cities at the moment, so a wipe would absolutely be in the best interests of the game.

The only thing i heard is that mobs were standing still in some parts of the world.. And that you could farm em easily.. Well in the Dwarf starter area it was far from that. If you even set foot close to the goblin camps you were fucked. 6546456543 shamans raped ur face like you were paper. All tho when you moved further to a zombie camp everything was fine. Been farming most of my time there :)

After a while Orks/Mahirims ran into the camp and had a blast fighting them. 

Originally posted by Gorilla

 The game is absolutely perfect for macroing, haxoring, and sploiting. Really mot good for a competative game. I am not sure there is a solution for AV at this point of time.

I would say to everyone that wants to play beg steal or borrow (or write your own, its trivial) macro 'clicker'  make sure your toon is training some skill 24/7 (resist the urge to pkay too often, playing early on is going to gimp your toon). Join a clan that cheats ,cheats often, and cheats hard. Within a week or two the gap between exploiters and those playing straight will be pretty much un closeable (if anyone playing straight hangs around).-  It wouldn't hurt to get a speedhack too.

At the very very least you gotta gotta macro.

 

 

Yeah. Full loot really helps those macros eh? Players skill and gear are WAYYYY more important than stats. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more important. Your predictions are quite laughable.

Originally posted by Gorilla

 The game is absolutely perfect for macroing, haxoring, and sploiting. Really mot good for a competative game. I am not sure there is a solution for AV at this point of time.

I would say to everyone that wants to play beg steal or borrow (or write your own, its trivial) macro 'clicker'  make sure your toon is training some skill 24/7 (resist the urge to pkay too often, playing early on is going to gimp your toon). Join a clan that cheats ,cheats often, and cheats hard. Within a week or two the gap between exploiters and those playing straight will be pretty much un closeable (if anyone playing straight hangs around).-  It wouldn't hurt to get a speedhack too.

At the very very least you gotta gotta macro.

 

 

Saying that you will gimp your character if you pk right from the start clearly shows you have never left the starting areas and have not played the game much at all.

A wipe would be for the best.  In a sandbox game, players should not be disadvantaged by the fuck ups of the GMs.  The servers should have came down 12 hours before they did, fixed the sync issues and the crashes / unplayable human characters.

It's supposed to be a competitive PvP MMO and has limited city spots.   Those lucky enough not to experience crashes also got to exploit non responsive mobs.  And on the other hand, the unlucky people didn't get to play, didn't even get to farm their money fairly and also missed out on these non responsive mobs.

So ultimately, if you didn't crash - you're at a huge advantage and that's not the way it should be.  1 day in - they should wipe.  If it was a week in, I'd say no.

They do indeed need to wipe the server so everyone gets a more fair shot.

I am also one who would lose a lot of playtime on my character but it's for the best.

Originally posted by ctrob67

Originally posted by Die_Scream

'Sploiting ruins games.

AoC didn't wipe after the gem fiasco did they? I don't think they did.

Telling people to "man up" is a poor argument for condoning exploiting.

 

The gem fiasco was *months* into the game, there was no way anyone would wipe then.  They did however deal with the 'exploit' (mistakes on their part really) by nerfing the gems into oblivion.

Later on there was an exploit with PvP XP and they did wipe PvP XP and items from people who appeared to have exploited that.

Blizz also wipe items from people who exploit WoW.

 

The way they dealt with PvP XP exploiting was awesome. They rolled back all characters who cheated to PvP lvl1. All forums were full of crying exploiters

I can only hope Aventurine has the competence and the balls to deal with exploiting in DFO.

Originally posted by ryoutou

If patterns mean anything then they will be entirely too proud to wipe, simply won't happen.

3 free days though is a joke.  There better be something better in the offing for this foolishness.

2-3 of 4 of these early clans in three months will have dropped into obscurity though, just like every other FFA game going.   1 of 4 strong beta guilds will stick it out for years, but the rest will bleed members, fraction, suffer cancelled subs, blah blah.

It sucks to miss the vanguard especially with an exploit going on to boot, but it is what it is and you just have to kill them and take their crap away from them.

lol the problem is i can see them wiping thats the way they are

Originally posted by sheek80

With clans like LOD and many others exploiting the bleep out of the sync issue the server is already compromised. The opening day catered to cheaters and now 13 citys are already claimed. There is no competition any more due to the rocky launch and futher more, we cannot voice our opinions due to the official forums being down. I dont know about you guys, but when i asked my race alliance wether or not they wanted a wipe, 90 percent were all for it.

 

 

Hopefully they will open new servers. Just wait and start in a fresh one. I doubt they will wipe.

Originally posted by Chaosas

The way they dealt with PvP XP exploiting was awesome. They rolled back all characters who cheated to PvP lvl1. All forums were full of crying exploiters

I can only hope Aventurine has the competence and the balls to deal with exploiting in DFO.

Do some background reading where both Tasos and the rest of the team explain where they come from - If their former pals got what they needed at launch, no wipe ever will be forthcoming (unless Aventurine manages to blow up their database...)  At my perspective, the team is much too enmeshed in the '1337 PK' scene to ever be impartial to the extent the game needed.

FFA PvP needs really harsh judges, flailing banstick left and right until people get the lesson. Sadly the said games are far too marginal, maybe exluding Eve, for the devteam start giving lessons on playing fair or playing elsewhere.

pretty sure i read somewhere they could only hold 10,000 or so per server.  That means that we will no doubt end up on new servers for those who are waiting to purchase and (when the NA launch rolls around) all NA players will end up restarting (guild city location wise) at that launch anyway.  Also if you want a city go out and raid it, it can be your goal while playing.

bottom line....it doesnt really matter if they get a head start

Originally posted by Death1942

pretty sure i read somewhere they could only hold 10,000 or so per server.  That means that we will no doubt end up on new servers for those who are waiting to purchase and (when the NA launch rolls around) all NA players will end up restarting (guild city location wise) at that launch anyway.  Also if you want a city go out and raid it, it can be your goal while playing.

 

bottom line....it doesnt really matter if they get a head start

but it does matter if they had possibly gotten enough gold to start 5+ more new cities if theirs gets taken.

This game is looking less appealing by the minute. Fix the bug and wipe.

Originally posted by Drazmic

Originally posted by Death1942

pretty sure i read somewhere they could only hold 10,000 or so per server.  That means that we will no doubt end up on new servers for those who are waiting to purchase and (when the NA launch rolls around) all NA players will end up restarting (guild city location wise) at that launch anyway.  Also if you want a city go out and raid it, it can be your goal while playing.

 

bottom line....it doesnt really matter if they get a head start

 

but it does matter if they had possibly gotten enough gold to start 5+ more new cities if theirs gets taken.

except there are limits on how many you can hold and there are restrictions on when you can raid and so forth.  Point is there will be multiple servers so  as long as you dont mind playing on a different server to those that pre-ordered you should be set.  Also when the move occurs cities wont travel with the characters.

Originally posted by Airspell

MAN UP AND TAKE IT ...LIKE A BISH !!! - the wounded cry of a carebear.

I love that sig every time I see it.