Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by Airspell

MAN UP AND TAKE IT ...LIKE A BISH !!! - the wounded cry of a carebear.

 

Because a general concern for the health of this game is bad right?

 

Man if only half the fanboy playerbase and forum trolls pulled their heads out from their behinds.

Dude your only concern is your own well-doing.

Join savage alliance and you'll have a city as well and everything will be just fine.

This is only the tip of the iceberg of the exploiting and cheating to come. These type of games attract elitists who want to win at any cost, and DF has attracted it's share of long time elitist guilds .

The future forum discussions on Darkfall will be, screams for nerfs,screaming at the dev team to do something about the rampant cheating and screaming at each other over ganking and looting,not to mention the cheating accusations that will start every time somebody is killed.. The same as any PVP centric game, good sports are hard to come by. Enjoy!

Originally posted by Die_Scream

'Sploiting ruins games.

AoC didn't wipe after the gem fiasco did they? I don't think they did.

Telling people to "man up" is a poor argument for condoning exploiting.

The gem fiasco was *months* into the game, there was no way anyone would wipe then.  They did however deal with the 'exploit' (mistakes on their part really) by nerfing the gems into oblivion.

Later on there was an exploit with PvP XP and they did wipe PvP XP and items from people who appeared to have exploited that.

Blizz also wipe items from people who exploit WoW.

Originally posted by SpiroTris

Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by Airspell

MAN UP AND TAKE IT ...LIKE A BISH !!! - the wounded cry of a carebear.

 

Because a general concern for the health of this game is bad right?

 

Man if only half the fanboy playerbase and forum trolls pulled their heads out from their behinds.

Dude your only concern is your own well-doing.

Join savage alliance and you'll have a city as well and everything will be just fine.

LOL @ savage alliance remark.

Of course it's my well-doing, and yours, and his, and hers, and all of them over there too.

Clearly your not realizing the severity of AV allowing this to slide.

Originally posted by SpiroTris

You obviously haven't played this game much. Fair competition is what aventurine calls a siege.

A wipe is what anyone who played mmorpgs for more than two months call an extremely bad solution.

But anyone who's played MMOs knows that servers get wiped routinely in beta and anyone who's not deluding themself knows that we're still in paid beta...

Originally posted by ctrob67

Originally posted by SpiroTris

You obviously haven't played this game much. Fair competition is what aventurine calls a siege.

A wipe is what anyone who played mmorpgs for more than two months call an extremely bad solution.

 

But anyone who's played MMOs knows that servers get wiped routinely in beta and anyone who's not deluding themself knows that we're still in paid beta...

 

Hahahaha.... oh that is so true :D

I still dont support a wipe though :P

Originally posted by ctrob67

Originally posted by Die_Scream

'Sploiting ruins games.

AoC didn't wipe after the gem fiasco did they? I don't think they did.

Telling people to "man up" is a poor argument for condoning exploiting.

 

The gem fiasco was *months* into the game, there was no way anyone would wipe then.  They did however deal with the 'exploit' (mistakes on their part really) by nerfing the gems into oblivion.

Later on there was an exploit with PvP XP and they did wipe PvP XP and items from people who appeared to have exploited that.

Blizz also wipe items from people who exploit WoW.

 

That's right, I remember now. I think that if there is a real exploit problem in game they really should consider a fresh start. It's less than 24 hours in or so, so no biggie in a game that should last years.

---

Originally posted by Drasken
yes pynda i do relize half my words are misspelled i have all ready explained this so i will not explain it agine so thank you so very much in your observing factor  your skill gose up 1 point

---

Sorry Drasken, I was going to edit in that I realize english is not a first language for many people here. But I decided just to not bother.

However I don't think I was referring to you anyway. I was talking about (three or four) other posters in this thread who did appear to me like failed products of the U.S. school system.

Originally posted by Die_Scream

That's right, I remember now. I think that if there is a real exploit problem in game they really should consider a fresh start. It's less than 24 hours in or so, so no biggie in a game that should last years.

I'm happy to leave it up to them (foolish as that may be).

If it turns out to be a real problem then I'll switch servers.  In fact I suspect launching another server would please people almost as much as rolling back this one.  But I think they should wait until this server is running smoothly first.

They also need to consider transfers to their US launch.  Hopefully, there will be fresh servers as well as the one players transfer too.

Could anybody please explain to me how what people did was exploiting in any way? I did see it happen, while I myself couldn't really get into it for my character still be ill equipped and myself struggling to get into the controls as I was no beta tester.

However, I could easily see how it works and what people did in my opinion was just standing on the known spawn, waiting till they get hit by the "invisible" (unsynced) mobs to fight back in the direction they get hit from. This didn't work for me that well, but who am I to blame if some others adopt to the current situation better than me? To me, that's not exploting but adjusting to the game dynamics at hand. It's not like those fellows would do any better than they would if the game would be in perfect shape.

Anybody could have done so who was very active during the first hours (which I myself and most of my clan couldn't due to RL obligations), as I perceived it as if you needed some minimum level of stats and equipment for it to work. - So if those that invested the most time and got the best control of the situation are getting a benefit others are struggling to achieve, that's perfectly normal in my book. If the server would have been in optimal shape, I dare to say we would actually be facing exactly the same situation, the same guilds owning the same cities, as, to put it simply, they appear to be the best currently. Most likely they'd only have achieved the same a little bit faster without the sync issues.

So relax a bit, refrain from crying for the first wipe for such a marginal thing and rethink for what to call people exploiters. The servers merely were up a few hours, we hardly managed to learn to know each others and the naming & shaming starts already. Let AV try and fix the technical issues first. The server is anything but over populated, leaving enough room for everybody to have fun and achieve goals.

Originally posted by ctrob67

Originally posted by Die_Scream

That's right, I remember now. I think that if there is a real exploit problem in game they really should consider a fresh start. It's less than 24 hours in or so, so no biggie in a game that should last years.

In fact I suspect launching another server would please people almost as much as rolling back this one.  But I think they should wait until this server is running smoothly first. 

That is a very good idea.

Originally posted by Pynda

 

---

Originally posted by Drasken
yes pynda i do relize half my words are misspelled i have all ready explained this so i will not explain it agine so thank you so very much in your observing factor  your skill gose up 1 point

---

 

Sorry Drasken, I was going to edit in that I realize english is not a first language for many people here. But I decided just to not bother.

However I don't think I was referring to you anyway. I was talking about (three or four) other posters in this thread who did appear to me like failed products of the U.S. school system.

nope it was me you where refering to man  and no english is not my secound language japaness is how ever i am still bad at english

its Symple there will be no wipe   as fare as paid beta  the game is live not beta  in standing how ever the game still has bugs  so in reality your paying for a buggy game  how ever any mmo you play has bugs at start in middle or any time with in its life  most are during the begining of the games life so deal with it

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Could anybody please explain to me how what people did was exploiting in any way? I did see it happen, while I myself couldn't really get into it for my character still be ill equipped and myself struggling to get into the controls as I was no beta tester.

However, I could easily see how it works and what people did in my opinion was just standing on the known spawn, waiting till they get hit by the "invisible" (unsynced) mobs to fight back in the direction they get hit from. This didn't work for me that well, but who am I to blame if some others adopt to the current situation better than me? To me, that's not exploting but adjusting to the game dynamics at hand. It's not like those fellows would do any better than they would if the game would be in perfect shape.

Anybody could have done so who was very active during the first hours (which I myself and most of my clan couldn't due to RL obligations), as I perceived it as if you needed some minimum level of stats and equipment for it to work. - So if those that invested the most time and got the best control of the situation are getting a benefit others are struggling to achieve, that's perfectly normal in my book. If the server would have been in optimal shape, I dare to say we would actually be facing exactly the same situation, the same guilds owning the same cities, as, to put it simply, they appear to be the best currently. Most likely they'd only have achieved the same a little bit faster without the sync issues.

So relax a bit, refrain from crying for the first wipe for such a marginal thing and rethink for what to call people exploiters. The servers merely were up a few hours, we hardly managed to learn to know each others and the naming & shaming starts already. Let AV try and fix the technical issues first. The server is anything but over populated, leaving enough room for everybody to have fun and achieve goals.

You have no idea what exploits were used in attaining large amounts of gold, used to buy cities and keys to chests, so please refrain from talking about the exploits.

As far as the sync goes, servers should have been brought down so everyone was on an equal playing field.

All in all, the sync issues plus people exploiting the hell out of a few things should be sufficient enough for a server wipe, be ready to reclaim your character name.

Yes, but you can't be surprised that an exploit was found in the opening day of a new MMO release...by an indy company right?

So it goes to reason that if an exploit is being utilized by some to great advantage, a fix then wipe is the best recourse in fairness. Especially, as I say 1 measly day in.

That is if, of course, this is an actual exploit.

Those of us who didn't pre-order are clearly the winners here.

We'll walk in on a red carpet one (or two or three) weeks from now  with all launchday issues gone and starter zones empty... mmmmm sweet :) Sure some people will be ahead of us but who cares, there's always someone who's waaaaaaay ahead of you whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Could anybody please explain to me how what people did was exploiting in any way? I did see it happen, while I myself couldn't really get into it for my character still be ill equipped and myself struggling to get into the controls as I was no beta tester.

However, I could easily see how it works and what people did in my opinion was just standing on the known spawn, waiting till they get hit by the "invisible" (unsynced) mobs to fight back in the direction they get hit from. This didn't work for me that well, but who am I to blame if some others adopt to the current situation better than me? To me, that's not exploting but adjusting to the game dynamics at hand. It's not like those fellows would do any better than they would if the game would be in perfect shape.

Anybody could have done so who was very active during the first hours (which I myself and most of my clan couldn't due to RL obligations), as I perceived it as if you needed some minimum level of stats and equipment for it to work. - So if those that invested the most time and got the best control of the situation are getting a benefit others are struggling to achieve, that's perfectly normal in my book. If the server would have been in optimal shape, I dare to say we would actually be facing exactly the same situation, the same guilds owning the same cities, as, to put it simply, they appear to be the best currently. Most likely they'd only have achieved the same a little bit faster without the sync issues.

So relax a bit, refrain from crying for the first wipe for such a marginal thing and rethink for what to call people exploiters. The servers merely were up a few hours, we hardly managed to learn to know each others and the naming & shaming starts already. Let AV try and fix the technical issues first. The server is anything but over populated, leaving enough room for everybody to have fun and achieve goals.

You have no idea what exploits were used in attaining large amounts of gold, used to buy cities and keys to chests, so please refrain from talking about the exploits.

 

As far as the sync goes, servers should have been brought down so everyone was on an equal playing field.

All in all, the sync issues plus people exploiting the hell out of a few things should be sufficient enough for a server wipe, be ready to reclaim your character name.

 

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming! I'm not talking aobut explaining them here, but so far no one came up with any furhter explanation why and where there would have been those exploits, while still accsuing others of using them.

I saw some of those powerhouses at work, and my impression was that they're able to achieve their goals within the boundaries of game dynamics as they are, but I might be wrong there. In any way, is it too much ask for a clarification on the accusations at hand? How do you expect to win others for your idea of the wipe if you don't come up with any additional information?

I for one would happily follow the idea of a wipe if indeed those achievement would have been based on 100% exploiting, and rerolling is not an issue at all for me personally, as, I think I already stated that, I didn't have the time to do anything more but some casual gaming yesterday anyway.

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Could anybody please explain to me how what people did was exploiting in any way? I did see it happen, while I myself couldn't really get into it for my character still be ill equipped and myself struggling to get into the controls as I was no beta tester.

However, I could easily see how it works and what people did in my opinion was just standing on the known spawn, waiting till they get hit by the "invisible" (unsynced) mobs to fight back in the direction they get hit from. This didn't work for me that well, but who am I to blame if some others adopt to the current situation better than me? To me, that's not exploting but adjusting to the game dynamics at hand. It's not like those fellows would do any better than they would if the game would be in perfect shape.

Anybody could have done so who was very active during the first hours (which I myself and most of my clan couldn't due to RL obligations), as I perceived it as if you needed some minimum level of stats and equipment for it to work. - So if those that invested the most time and got the best control of the situation are getting a benefit others are struggling to achieve, that's perfectly normal in my book. If the server would have been in optimal shape, I dare to say we would actually be facing exactly the same situation, the same guilds owning the same cities, as, to put it simply, they appear to be the best currently. Most likely they'd only have achieved the same a little bit faster without the sync issues.

So relax a bit, refrain from crying for the first wipe for such a marginal thing and rethink for what to call people exploiters. The servers merely were up a few hours, we hardly managed to learn to know each others and the naming & shaming starts already. Let AV try and fix the technical issues first. The server is anything but over populated, leaving enough room for everybody to have fun and achieve goals.

You have no idea what exploits were used in attaining large amounts of gold, used to buy cities and keys to chests, so please refrain from talking about the exploits.

 

As far as the sync goes, servers should have been brought down so everyone was on an equal playing field.

All in all, the sync issues plus people exploiting the hell out of a few things should be sufficient enough for a server wipe, be ready to reclaim your character name.

 

 

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming! I'm not talking aobut explaining them here, but so far no one came up with any furhter explanation why and where there would have been those exploits, while still accsuing others of using them.

I saw some of those powerhouses at work, and my impression was that they're able to achieve their goals within the boundaries of game dynamics as they are, but I might be wrong there. In any way, is it too much ask for a clarification on the accusations at hand? How do you expect to win others for your idea of the wipe if you don't come up with any additional information?

I for one would happily follow the idea of a wipe if indeed those achievement would have been based on 100% exploiting, and rerolling is not an issue at all for me personally, as, I think I already stated that, I didn't have the time to do anything more but some casual gaming yesterday anyway.

If you read through the thread before clicking the title and replying, you would have seen I have mentioned the same exploit 2 or 3 times.

I'm not going to go into details about it, as I don't know if they have fixed it or not. It has to do with mobs and water, it is known by a large group of people, and this is like someone said "only the tip of the iceberg".

There are several other exploits still in the game after beta, once they are fixed I will gladly tell you how they were done. I'm sure a little google searching would turn them up for you too however.

Originally posted by SpiroTris

Those of us who didn't pre-order are clearly the winners here.

We'll walk in on a red carpet one (or two or three) weeks from now  with all launchday issues gone and starter zones empty... mmmmm sweet :) Sure some people will be ahead of us but who cares, there's always someone who's waaaaaaay ahead of you whether you like it or not.

That's true. It's true in most MMOs though. Getting in the bottom floor is always attractive, but joining a few patches in is always a win, since any competant company has ironed out any game breaking issues by then.

How much do you want to bet its the group of asians/pinoys that tasos was talking about lol.  Played another mmo and they had to ban this one countrys IP to keep the pinoys out and the amount of hackers plummeted.

Originally posted by Pale_Rider

How much do you want to bet its the group of asians/pinoys that tasos was talking about lol.  Played another mmo and they had to ban this one countrys IP to keep the pinoys out and the amount of hackers plummeted.

When I read this I heard Clint eastwoods voice like in Gran Torino.

Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Originally posted by Karlmahi

Originally posted by AnsgarIsen

Could anybody please explain to me how what people did was exploiting in any way? I did see it happen, while I myself couldn't really get into it for my character still be ill equipped and myself struggling to get into the controls as I was no beta tester.

However, I could easily see how it works and what people did in my opinion was just standing on the known spawn, waiting till they get hit by the "invisible" (unsynced) mobs to fight back in the direction they get hit from. This didn't work for me that well, but who am I to blame if some others adopt to the current situation better than me? To me, that's not exploting but adjusting to the game dynamics at hand. It's not like those fellows would do any better than they would if the game would be in perfect shape.

Anybody could have done so who was very active during the first hours (which I myself and most of my clan couldn't due to RL obligations), as I perceived it as if you needed some minimum level of stats and equipment for it to work. - So if those that invested the most time and got the best control of the situation are getting a benefit others are struggling to achieve, that's perfectly normal in my book. If the server would have been in optimal shape, I dare to say we would actually be facing exactly the same situation, the same guilds owning the same cities, as, to put it simply, they appear to be the best currently. Most likely they'd only have achieved the same a little bit faster without the sync issues.

So relax a bit, refrain from crying for the first wipe for such a marginal thing and rethink for what to call people exploiters. The servers merely were up a few hours, we hardly managed to learn to know each others and the naming & shaming starts already. Let AV try and fix the technical issues first. The server is anything but over populated, leaving enough room for everybody to have fun and achieve goals.

You have no idea what exploits were used in attaining large amounts of gold, used to buy cities and keys to chests, so please refrain from talking about the exploits.

 

As far as the sync goes, servers should have been brought down so everyone was on an equal playing field.

All in all, the sync issues plus people exploiting the hell out of a few things should be sufficient enough for a server wipe, be ready to reclaim your character name.

 

 

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming! I'm not talking aobut explaining them here, but so far no one came up with any furhter explanation why and where there would have been those exploits, while still accsuing others of using them.

I saw some of those powerhouses at work, and my impression was that they're able to achieve their goals within the boundaries of game dynamics as they are, but I might be wrong there. In any way, is it too much ask for a clarification on the accusations at hand? How do you expect to win others for your idea of the wipe if you don't come up with any additional information?

I for one would happily follow the idea of a wipe if indeed those achievement would have been based on 100% exploiting, and rerolling is not an issue at all for me personally, as, I think I already stated that, I didn't have the time to do anything more but some casual gaming yesterday anyway.

 

If you read through the thread before clicking the title and replying, you would have seen I have mentioned the same exploit 2 or 3 times.

I'm not going to go into details about it, as I don't know if they have fixed it or not. It has to do with mobs and water, it is known by a large group of people, and this is like someone said "only the tip of the iceberg".

 

There are several other exploits still in the game after beta, once they are fixed I will gladly tell you how they were done. I'm sure a little google searching would turn them up for you too however.

 

Oh, no worries, I read that. However, you don't honestly suggest the clan cities up now were fully achieved by exploiting such a minor bug, especially when it's perfectly possible to achieve exactly the same outcome without it in the same time frame, do you?

The people I saw farming at least weren't all sitting in the water, they were rather sitting in the middle of spawns and killing at an amazing rate in spite of the sync issues. Witnessing was kind of amazing to me, as I myself had seroious trouble to get anything done, but it looked far from anything I'd call exploiting.

Anyway, I don't really care if we get a wipe or not. I just don't see it change anything. It will just be the same clans having the first major achievements again. If you and others are feeling better after waht will be nothing but a short rewind, so be it, fine with me.

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming!

Several of the exploits have already been listed in this thread and have nothing to do with the synch problems, they are minor in comparison. I listed two of them but they all revolve around flaws in the ai code, it is extremely easy to bug the ai’s pathing, so that they stand motionless and defenceless while players kill and loot. Even the hardest mobs in the game can be exploited this way (the exception being dragons as they fly above you), this gave certain beta guilds a huge advantage in being able to go and zerk some of the best loot drops in game on day one.

The problems were hashed to death throughout beta and the devs were well aware it would be a concern if launched as is, while they did tweak the ai code several times they never sorted out the problems before launch.

Perhaps you should have taken the time to read the thread before trying to jump on the bandwagon with your 2 cents.

Where? In the starter area goblin camp?

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about, or what I'm talking about.

It will hopefully get sorted out.

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

You are right, I don't have an idea where there were any exploits, that's the main point of my post. Pelase enlighten us where there were the exploits you are claiming!

Several of the exploits have already been listed in this thread and have nothing to do with the synch problems, they are minor in comparison. I listed two of them but they all revolve around flaws in the ai code, it is extremely easy to bug the ai’s pathing, so that they stand motionless and defenceless while players kill and loot. Even the hardest mobs in the game can be exploited this way (the exception being dragons as they fly above you), this gave certain beta guilds a huge advantage in being able to go and zerk some of the best loot drops in game on day one.

The problems were hashed to death throughout beta and the devs were well aware it would be a concern if launched as is, while they did tweak the ai code several times they never sorted out the problems before launch.

Perhaps you should have taken the time to read the thread before trying to jump on the bandwagon with your 2 cents.

Thanks a load Hex, that's exactly the kind of reasonable explanation I was looking for.

No further questions :)

Edit for Karlmahi:

No, I wasn't talking aobut goblins and starter area. As I didn't feel like I could do too much in the sarter area, I was running around a lot:

Either way, sorted on my end after what Hex managed to combine into an informative post. What is explained there might well warrant a wipe.

 The game is absolutely perfect for macroing, haxoring, and sploiting. Really mot good for a competative game. I am not sure there is a solution for AV at this point of time.

I would say to everyone that wants to play beg steal or borrow (or write your own, its trivial) macro 'clicker'  make sure your toon is training some skill 24/7 (resist the urge to pkay too often, playing early on is going to gimp your toon). Join a clan that cheats ,cheats often, and cheats hard. Within a week or two the gap between exploiters and those playing straight will be pretty much un closeable (if anyone playing straight hangs around).-  It wouldn't hurt to get a speedhack too.

At the very very least you gotta gotta macro.