I have now paid them over $53 USD for this game as of about 5 hours ago, when they finally debited my card.  This game was SUPPOSED to launch today.  But now we get an extra 3 days, blah blah blah....

So here's my question...

Let's assume for the moment that despite how stable the game may have been for all the beta testers.. that this game finally comes up and is a total mess.  Lag galore.  Massive bugs and problems.  For the first two or three days, lets imagine that the servers keep having to be shut down for extended amounts of time, and when it is up, people are getting booted off the server, lag makes the game unplayable, and nobody is having any fun what-so-ever.

More then likely, Aventurine would not be willing to refund anyones credit card for the full purchase price. 

So what would you do?  Call your bank or credit card company and dispute the charges?  Write it up as a loss?  Try and grief the piss out of Tasos on every website known to have anything related to him?

I know that I would certainly be calling my credit card company and disputing the product for not being at all what was advertised and promised to me.

What is everyones thoughts on this?  Because the longer this chaos goes on now and the servers remain unopened.. the more plausible I see something very similar to just what I described happening here.  I am beginning to think that all the doubters, skeptics, and even trolls may have been 100% right all along.  I hope I am wrong.

Is it possible to show Tasos any more disrespect and grief than is already shown and brings on himself? Anyways it is what it is right now. Odd company with the way they handle things. I am in a way surprised you didnt have ot western union them the money that way they had cash.

This scenario already played with the Dark a Light Release....

I expect this game to bomb at release as well, with the limited funding and small staff I expect downtime and patches to come at EQ1 pace.

The game looks good on paper, but when you play it you realize F2P games are better written.

This games concpet will always be what I like to call "Vaporware"

C'mon OP, you knew the risk you were taking when you pre-ordered.  Can't come here now and complain about your decision.

I'm called a troll, but even I say show a bit more faith and give them a day or so to get it all sorted out.  If the weekend comes and no luck, consider a credit card chargeback.

I tend to be neutral on these things at best and have been labled a troll at worse, but my advice would be to hang in there.

See if they get their act together.  If they do, then great!

If not, dispute the charges and get the attorney general involved (this increases your chance of refund if you are from the US) if the banks won't help you.

It is very possible Aventurine is simply struggling... for the full force of their undertaking is hitting them square in the face, servers and wallet.

Sadly, how long one should wait is something I am not sure of, but if 3 to 5 days go by without solid reassurances, then yeah, you might want to consider bailing.

Btw, no pissing on Tasos needed, for he is currently getting a big dose of humble pie right now.

You should probably cancel your pre-order, and next time fully evaluate the risks you're taking before investing your money. I'm sorry but this is probably one of the silliest topics I've seen so far. If you're absolutely freaking out call your credit card company and reverse the charges. If the company won't do it then again I say you should probably evaluate the risks you're taking before investing yourself.

On the contrary, he should be pissed upon and laughed at. No one made him shoot his big mouth off during development with his "The game is so ready, I could launch it today but I wont' " and his "other games aren't as cool as us". String him up as a example to other devs.

He needs to be McQuaided, right in his big fat head. "Never brag before you go on the range"

Oh yeah.  Most credit companies will credit your card in the event of fraud for anywhere from 3 month to 2 years depending on your company.  Even tight debit card banks allow up to 90 days.

This means you have time to get your money back in the event it all turns out to be a scam.

Still, I have the feeling that this no scam, just simply a small company being staggered by big company problems.  In short, Aventurine has been blindsided.  The fact they are offerring extra play time without it being demanded by the disgruntled playerbase is commendable.

I look at it this way.

Scenario 1
The worst that can happen is this is a complete scam. I give them my credit card info and they take it and make an unauthorized charge. Laughs on them this isn't an American express Black card. It's a mickey mouse themed (may I add) credit card that I think I have a less then 1000USD daily charge limit on. I will be notified I reached my limit. It will be written off as fraud, I get a new card, nothing happens.

Scenario 2
They charge the 42 euros. The game sucks and I don't like it. I cancel before the first month and lose 42 euros. This doesn't matter I remember paying 60USD for Yoshi's story for the Nintendo 64 beating it that day and never playing it again. If you play electronic games you are bound to lose your money at some point.

Scenario 3
They pull a Dark and Light. I don't like the game I cancel and remove my info. But then a month down the road they charge me again. I'm not paying for a service I did not receive. My credit card company knows this and they will refund the money.

Scenario 4
I enjoy this game. I pay the money every month. It entertains me for hours.

This thread is drowning in QQ

Originally posted by Vulcanius

Originally posted by Korhindi

Still, I have the feeling that this no scam, just simply a small company being staggered by big company problems.  In short, Aventurine has been blindsided.  The fact they are offerring extra play time without it being demanded by the disgruntled playerbase is commendable.

 

{ Mod Delete }

you serious?  It is a scam.....

They do nothing but lie.  They JUST said in their last update the game is ready to go.  Now all of a sudden there is a major bug?  Its ridiculous.  These people are scamming the shit out of us.  Maybe we should cancel our preorders that we were already charged for....  oh thats right, we can't because the account management page is down for no reason....

What don't you guys get.

It really wouldn't take much to create a world, big or small, but some NPC's in it and some buildings, invite some people and call it a beta.  It would take a bit of cash and some work but if your gonna scam people out of a buncha money then why not?  They had no extra features they promised activated.  The world was empty.  And plenty of other features were "turned off".  No game is coming out.  How is it so hard to believe that when they contradict themselves with every pathetic exuse they utter?  And to top it all off, every form of official communication is turned off.....

It is messed up and its a scam....

say what you want

{ Mod Edit }

Originally posted by DaysGoneBy

I have now paid them over $53 USD for this game as of about 5 hours ago, when they finally debited my card.  This game was SUPPOSED to launch today.  But now we get an extra 3 days, blah blah blah....

So here's my question...

Let's assume for the moment that despite how stable the game may have been for all the beta testers.. that this game finally comes up and is a total mess.  Lag galore.  Massive bugs and problems.  For the first two or three days, lets imagine that the servers keep having to be shut down for extended amounts of time, and when it is up, people are getting booted off the server, lag makes the game unplayable, and nobody is having any fun what-so-ever.

More then likely, Aventurine would not be willing to refund anyones credit card for the full purchase price. 

So what would you do?  Call your bank or credit card company and dispute the charges?  Write it up as a loss?  Try and grief the piss out of Tasos on every website known to have anything related to him?

I know that I would certainly be calling my credit card company and disputing the product for not being at all what was advertised and promised to me.

What is everyones thoughts on this?  Because the longer this chaos goes on now and the servers remain unopened.. the more plausible I see something very similar to just what I described happening here.  I am beginning to think that all the doubters, skeptics, and even trolls may have been 100% right all along.  I hope I am wrong.

 

Same thing happened with AoC's launch. If it turns out to be as bad as that game, you can do what 80% of the players ended up doing then - cancelling. And if it doesn't, you can keep paying. Not complicated. No need to call a meeting to figure it out. You either like it with its imperfections or you don't. Same as any other game.

          ALl of your scenarios are certainly possibilities.......In fact the odds are probably much higher that many of those things will occur......But this is the reason why many of us tell people to jsut wait a couple months when a game launches.......You can see what its strengths and weaknesses are....You can see how the company handles issues and deals with things.......This is why you dont just hand over 50 bucks every time a new game comes out but you guys never listen.......The same thing will happen with every single game that is going to be released this year and next and probably until they stop making games...... If Darkfall is the disaster of the century there isnt anyone that is going to feel sorry for you.......

Originally posted by mjones1052

 

It really wouldn't take much to create a world, big or small, but some NPC's in it and some buildings, invite some people and call it a beta. It would take a bit of cash and some work but if your gonna scam people out of a buncha money then why not? They had no extra features they promised activated. The world was empty. And plenty of other features were "turned off". No game is coming out. How is it so hard to believe that when they contradict themselves with every pathetic exuse they utter? And to top it all off, every form of official communication is turned off.....

 

It is messed up and its a scam....

say what you want

{ Mod Edit }

 

lolno

The game was good enough that I'd pay for it.

The only thing that could be stopping the game right now (aside from this mysterious "bug") is the servers. While the beta wasn't laggy, I don't know how it will be with 10k players. If they can't get a server to support that, then they're doomed. If they can, then the game will be great.

The game in beta was great. Not a scam. And if it is a scam, then they should try going into gaming because they make better games than real companies... if only they had some money to finance a proper launch.

I've paid for the game.   I beta tested it.   I know what it is and it was enjoyable enough for me to want to pay to play it.

I am confident it isn't a scam and that I will get at least what I expected from what I've seen in beta. 

When I paid my money I considered it a gamble just the same.   A gamble I was willing to make because I wanted to be in on the first day of this MMO and as a guild member it is important for your guild to be in early if you have made strategic plans.   If I was solo, I wouldn't care about being in right away.

If the game goes down the tubes, I will have no one else to blame for losing the 53 bucks than myself.   I can accept that.   I don't blame others for my screw ups.   Knowing how Aventurine rolls and my own opinion that they seem to lack the basic common sense of a chimp on some things is why I considered it somewhat of a gamble.

The game itself is solid and fun.    Because they had a great vision and put together a good package doesn't mean they will get everything else right though.    If it fizzles out, it won't be the first time I've gambled on a game and been dissapointed.

I beta tested Vanguard and was super excited for that game until I tried it and there was no way I was going to buy it.

I waited and followed AoC and passed on launch and then passed on it after I started getting feedback on it.

I made the choice for Darkfall as I see more promise than the above two titles and I really don't see anything better on the horizon for my individual tastes.

Originally posted by Vulcanius

Originally posted by Korhindi

Still, I have the feeling that this no scam, just simply a small company being staggered by big company problems.  In short, Aventurine has been blindsided.  The fact they are offerring extra play time without it being demanded by the disgruntled playerbase is commendable.

 

I'm pretty sure anyone who actually believes DarkFall is a scam should be suffocated and removed from the gene pool.

 If its not a scam then why all the secrecy with pushback updates. Last one was a bug, next it will be "Somebody spilt coffee on the server machine so go ahead and pre-order to cover the cost of rebuilding a new one". Really is this game only launching with one server or is this all speculation. Serious question.

{ Mod Edit }

Originally posted by Theocritus

          ALl of your scenarios are certainly possibilities.......In fact the odds are probably much higher that many of those things will occur......But this is the reason why many of us tell people to jsut wait a couple months when a game launches.......You can see what its strengths and weaknesses are....You can see how the company handles issues and deals with things.......This is why you dont just hand over 50 bucks every time a new game comes out but you guys never listen.......The same thing will happen with every single game that is going to be released this year and next and probably until they stop making games...... If Darkfall is the disaster of the century there isnt anyone that is going to feel sorry for you.......

Look "dad", I didn't ask for a lecture about how smart you are because you've never wasted a dime and all.  I was basically asking the people that did pre-order what they will do and how long they might wait before calling their banks and disputing this charge, like I will do as well.

They advertised a certain game.  They advertised a launch of 2/25/09.  They made a lot of promises.  If they don't meet their end of the game that they advertised, then I believe I have every right to dispute this charge and let my credit card company re-charge them.

If you walk into a diner, and see a picture of a nice big juicy burger with fresh lettuce, tomato, and all and it looks big and great on their menu, and you get a small salisbury steak sandwich on stale bread, then you have every right to demand your money back (before you eat the whole thing of course).  And this is really no different.  If this game isn't as advertised and is laggy or performs like crap then I will demand a refund.

And if it's great dad, then I will have 2 months of fun while you sit on your thumb "thinking it over carefully".

But thanks for the lecture.

Originally posted by Tingtong1

This scenario already played with the Dark a Light Release....

I expect this game to bomb at release as well, with the limited funding and small staff I expect downtime and patches to come at EQ1 pace.

The game looks good on paper, but when you play it you realize F2P games are better written.

This games concpet will always be what I like to call "Vaporware"

actually the game has really good code, a lot better than most p2p mmo's out there, if not all. The problem with it is that many f2p games impliment their features atleast 40000000000000x smarter than DF

I generally don't like to make blanket statements, but I feel it's warranted this time:

IN MY OPINION.... with all the trouble this game has gone through after almost a *decade* of trying to get out the gate, anyone who pre-ordered this is a naive at best, a sucker at worst.

Originally posted by DaysGoneBy

I have now paid them over $53 USD for this game as of about 5 hours ago, when they finally debited my card.  This game was SUPPOSED to launch today.  But now we get an extra 3 days, blah blah blah....

So here's my question...

Let's assume for the moment that despite how stable the game may have been for all the beta testers.. that this game finally comes up and is a total mess.  Lag galore.  Massive bugs and problems.  For the first two or three days, lets imagine that the servers keep having to be shut down for extended amounts of time, and when it is up, people are getting booted off the server, lag makes the game unplayable, and nobody is having any fun what-so-ever.

More then likely, Aventurine would not be willing to refund anyones credit card for the full purchase price. 

So what would you do?  Call your bank or credit card company and dispute the charges?  Write it up as a loss?  Try and grief the piss out of Tasos on every website known to have anything related to him?

I know that I would certainly be calling my credit card company and disputing the product for not being at all what was advertised and promised to me.

What is everyones thoughts on this?  Because the longer this chaos goes on now and the servers remain unopened.. the more plausible I see something very similar to just what I described happening here.  I am beginning to think that all the doubters, skeptics, and even trolls may have been 100% right all along.  I hope I am wrong.

 

Well this is launch day.  Been playing mmorpgs since UO was released back in 97 and.....I have never seen a launch go flawlessly.  Its par for the course and to be expected.  The game will launch.  It will have bugs.  There will be lag.  People will be kicked out of the server,  servers will be brought down for hotfixes that generate new bugs, etc., etc., etc.,  ad nauseum.

This is nothing new.   Though people, many who should know better, seem to be scandalized that there has been a delay.  You can wait a few months till the bugs are ironed out and then buy it  or... you can be in from server birth.  That is entirely up to you.  However, to expect a flawless launch is just not realistic at least, not in my experience.   The thrill of being part of server birth means bugs, delays and downtime.  Thats just the way it is folks.

Originally posted by mjones1052

Originally posted by Vulcanius

Originally posted by Korhindi

Still, I have the feeling that this no scam, just simply a small company being staggered by big company problems.  In short, Aventurine has been blindsided.  The fact they are offerring extra play time without it being demanded by the disgruntled playerbase is commendable.

 

I'm pretty sure anyone who actually believes DarkFall is a scam should be suffocated and removed from the gene pool.

 

you serious?  It is a scam.....

They do nothing but lie.  They JUST said in their last update the game is ready to go.  Now all of a sudden there is a major bug?  Its ridiculous.  These people are scamming the shit out of us.  Maybe we should cancel our preorders that we were already charged for....  oh thats right, we can't because the account management page is down for no reason....

What don't you guys get.

It really wouldn't take much to create a world, big or small, but some NPC's in it and some buildings, invite some people and call it a beta.  It would take a bit of cash and some work but if your gonna scam people out of a buncha money then why not?  They had no extra features they promised activated.  The world was empty.  And plenty of other features were "turned off".  No game is coming out.  How is it so hard to believe that when they contradict themselves with every pathetic exuse they utter?  And to top it all off, every form of official communication is turned off.....

It is messed up and its a scam....

say what you want

{ Mod Edit }

at least they fix it you werent in beta was you. there anal about certain types of bugs. i 100% garrentee you there is no scam involved

Originally posted by mjones1052

Originally posted by takoon2006

jesus christ people lissin to this man the game hasent come out on the EXACT TIME it was told to come and ANNDDDD they had......UNEXPECTED PROBLUMS!!!! i meen come oonnnn that just dosent happen humans are an uber race that can get anything done perfectly even with small staff jesus i hope this guy gets in a car crash and gets disembowld by the jaws of life

 

This for real?  These problems were said not to exist in their last update.....  They are blatantly lying and hoping that us fans are too stupid to recognize it.

actully there was anew patch with every patch theres ussly a bug depending how big it was

Originally posted by Vulcanius

Originally posted by mjones1052

 

It really wouldn't take much to create a world, big or small, but some NPC's in it and some buildings, invite some people and call it a beta. It would take a bit of cash and some work but if your gonna scam people out of a buncha money then why not? They had no extra features they promised activated. The world was empty. And plenty of other features were "turned off". No game is coming out. How is it so hard to believe that when they contradict themselves with every pathetic exuse they utter? And to top it all off, every form of official communication is turned off.....

 

It is messed up and its a scam....

say what you want

{ Mod Edit }

 

 

{ Mod Delete }

how about read any of my other posts and see that i did in fact get  a preorder and would love to cancel it but can't because they have the account management page down for whatever reason.

And yes I was in beta.  Me and the majority of my guild.  And yes, the game did look good, and played semi decently.  BUT with all the lies coming from the Aventurine camp it has completely ruined any interest I had in thsi game....

Originally posted by mjones1052

how about read any of my other posts and see that i did in fact get  a preorder and would love to cancel it but can't because they have the account management page down for whatever reason.

 

And yes I was in beta.  Me and the majority of my guild.  And yes, the game did look good, and played semi decently.  BUT with all the lies coming from the Aventurine camp it has completely ruined any interest I had in thsi game....

Then my suggestion is you stop whining about it here on the forums and call your credit card company. That or develop the tiniest amount of patience and wait a few hours or days.

Originally posted by Vulcanius

Originally posted by mjones1052

how about read any of my other posts and see that i did in fact get  a preorder and would love to cancel it but can't because they have the account management page down for whatever reason.

 

And yes I was in beta.  Me and the majority of my guild.  And yes, the game did look good, and played semi decently.  BUT with all the lies coming from the Aventurine camp it has completely ruined any interest I had in thsi game....

 

Then my suggestion is you stop whining about it here on the forums and call your credit card company. That or develop the tiniest amount of patience and wait a few hours or days.

meh few hours at most