Originally posted by Kyleran

I quite agree, the thing that ultimately drove me from SB (besides the poor server performance) was waking up one morning to find our clan city totally destroyed (except for 7 protected buildings) by a 3 am raid from a West Coast based empire.

I'm glad to see mechanics that prevent this sort of thing and give people a chance to defend themselves.

Being in a large guild should not be something that is penalized.  People work very hard to create and maintain such organizations and they have a right to enjoy the game too.

Actually it will not prevent what you just described. These shards will only protect a hamlet or city from being claimed by someone else... raids that "disable" buildings and walls will still be in full effect 24/7.

So in fact it is exactly as you described only worse because you could log on with only your TOL still standing and all other buildings gone/damaged....

"disabled" is an odd term to use but something I come to expect from AV... disabled could mean damaged, destroyed, or nonfunctional.... Easy to argue that the buildings will not be completely destroyed and when that is proven not to be the case, just as easy to say they told us all along building would be destroyed and we "interpreted" it wrong to begin with.

Originally posted by Xantheous

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Xantheous

Is there any way to disagree on these forums and not be called a troll?

 

Anywho, I thought that this was one of the big draws to the game. Like it or not, they are not ready and they need your cash to keep ot going. Call it an investment..maybe you will feel better.

 

Wow really? I called the 2nd poster a troll because he trolled, he did not disagree with me in any way. Reading helps you not look stupid my friend.

 

I said this site not this thread.

Then why post it in this thread haha?

And as to your well written comment about them wanting your money and not being ready........... troll.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kyleran

I quite agree, the thing that ultimately drove me from SB (besides the poor server performance) was waking up one morning to find our clan city totally destroyed (except for 7 protected buildings) by a 3 am raid from a West Coast based empire.

I'm glad to see mechanics that prevent this sort of thing and give people a chance to defend themselves.

Being in a large guild should not be something that is penalized.  People work very hard to create and maintain such organizations and they have a right to enjoy the game too.

 

Actually it will not prevent what you just described. These shards will only protect a hamlet or city from being claimed by someone else... raids that "disable" buildings and walls will still be in full effect 24/7.

So in fact it is exactly as you described only worse because you could log on with only your TOL still standing and all other buildings gone/damaged....

"disabled" is an odd term to use but something I come to expect from AV... disabled could mean damaged, destroyed, or nonfunctional.... Easy to argue that the buildings will not be completely destroyed and when that is proven not to be the case, just as easy to say they told us all along building would be destroyed and we "interpreted" it wrong to begin with.

If you want to know what disabled means all you had to do was ask. Disabled buildings are at 1% life and cannot be used until they are repaired with repair shards. I also see you dedcided to ignore my comments about walls and towers.

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

Why not? You can siege other late night clans. It is going to be played around the world, this just gives an option(that you will have to put an effort into getting) to protect your clan when you are asleep(whenever that may be).

 

I think this gives guilds far too much protection.  I would prefer it if 3am city destruction was in the game, I realise that this is probably unpopular but I feel that the game will be worse off without it.  Big guilds will be extremely hard to shift from their guild cities.

 

But big guilds should be hard to oust from their cities. 3am city sieges are just a stupid concept. Darkfall is still a game, and you cannot be on in force 24/7. Spending months building a city only to have it taken when you are asleep is not a mechanic that helps a game.

Full loot.

Isn't that the mantra of the DF fanboi internet tough guys?  Isn't that how they gauge their personal badass-ness?

So, why not full loot on cities?  Anytime.  Anyplace.

What if players are allowed at some point to make personal "protection shards" that would allow their bodies not to be looted?  Wouldn't that go against the core concept of the game?

DF fanatics preach freedom of action as a main selling point of this game.  So, what is DF really about - freedom, or security?

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

Why not? You can siege other late night clans. It is going to be played around the world, this just gives an option(that you will have to put an effort into getting) to protect your clan when you are asleep(whenever that may be).

 

I think this gives guilds far too much protection.  I would prefer it if 3am city destruction was in the game, I realise that this is probably unpopular but I feel that the game will be worse off without it.  Big guilds will be extremely hard to shift from their guild cities.

 

But big guilds should be hard to oust from their cities. 3am city sieges are just a stupid concept. Darkfall is still a game, and you cannot be on in force 24/7. Spending months building a city only to have it taken when you are asleep is not a mechanic that helps a game.

 

Full loot.

Isn't that the mantra of the DF fanboi internet tough guys?  Isn't that how they gauge their personal badass-ness?

So, why not full loot on cities?  Anytime.  Anyplace.

What if players are allowed at some point to make personal "protection shards" that would allow their bodies not to be looted?  Wouldn't that go against the core concept of the game?

DF fanatics preach freedom of action as a main selling point of this game.  So, what is DF really about - freedom, or security?

Why does a individual who likes full loot games have to be an internet tough guy and a wannabe badass? You can attack someone city, anytime, any place.  You just cant siege them without declaring siege, and if they are under the protection shard you wont be able to declare siege.

Calm down haha. Darkfall fans do want full loot and freedom, but of course we still want the game to be fun and not require being on 24/7. Believe it or not Darkfall fans have lives as well! Has any Darkfall fan asked that your character remain logged in even when you are offline? Funny how quick you are to try and jump on the concept of player freedom, did some DF fans come into your house and break your moms legs or somthing?

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kyleran

I quite agree, the thing that ultimately drove me from SB (besides the poor server performance) was waking up one morning to find our clan city totally destroyed (except for 7 protected buildings) by a 3 am raid from a West Coast based empire.

I'm glad to see mechanics that prevent this sort of thing and give people a chance to defend themselves.

Being in a large guild should not be something that is penalized.  People work very hard to create and maintain such organizations and they have a right to enjoy the game too.

 

Actually it will not prevent what you just described. These shards will only protect a hamlet or city from being claimed by someone else... raids that "disable" buildings and walls will still be in full effect 24/7.

So in fact it is exactly as you described only worse because you could log on with only your TOL still standing and all other buildings gone/damaged....

"disabled" is an odd term to use but something I come to expect from AV... disabled could mean damaged, destroyed, or nonfunctional.... Easy to argue that the buildings will not be completely destroyed and when that is proven not to be the case, just as easy to say they told us all along building would be destroyed and we "interpreted" it wrong to begin with. 

If you want to know what disabled means all you had to do was ask. Disabled buildings are at 1% life and cannot be used until they are repaired with repair shards. I also see you dedcided to ignore my comments about walls and towers.

I did not ignore it, it is just not relevant. If a zerg raiding group has the capacity to bring all buildings down to 1% the cost of repairs would still demand 24/7 protection.

What is the material and gold cost on crafting repair shards? This could cripple a guild just as effectively as taking the untire city over. Especially if it is done on consecutive nights.

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Xantheous

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Xantheous

Is there any way to disagree on these forums and not be called a troll?

 

Anywho, I thought that this was one of the big draws to the game. Like it or not, they are not ready and they need your cash to keep ot going. Call it an investment..maybe you will feel better.

 

Wow really? I called the 2nd poster a troll because he trolled, he did not disagree with me in any way. Reading helps you not look stupid my friend.

 

I said this site not this thread.

Then why post it in this thread haha?

 

And as to your well written comment about them wanting your money and not being ready........... troll.

Thanks

It seems that you missed me mentioning "Siege as being a huge draw" and focused on everything else. IMO if something is not ready for launch, at launch, they should promise it as the first huge patch or expansion. My problem is not with the game really, I just that that they lack project management skills (among other things) and they do not seem to communicate with the player base enough. I know it is all a part of creating hype (i.e. Sony not mentioning Jedi's where not in the game at launch or no siege/guild cities in AoC's launch) and If I seem jaded then I am so for great reason as are many other players. However, If this is a sign as to "what is to come" in Darkfall then I would say the future looks bleak.

This should not be necessary, this game has users on 3 continents - North America, Australasia and Europe. 

Guilds that cannot organise a diverse enough player base to protect their cities deserve to lose them imo. 

This change will encourage single nationality guilds, give too much power to large guilds and will greatly reduce metagaming opportunities.

It will still play it in couple months time if it proves to be decent but I am very unhappy about this.

Originally posted by Blodpls

This should not be necessary, this game has users on 3 continents - North America, Australasia and Europe. 

Guilds that cannot organise a diverse enough player base to protect their cities deserve to lose them imo. 

This change will encourage single nationality guilds, give too much power to large guilds and will greatly reduce metagaming opportunities.

It will still play it in couple months time if it proves to be decent but I am very unhappy about this.

What about when they release N. America servers? You think clans will have enough allies on at all times then? They are planning for the future.

Originally posted by Xantheous

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Xantheous

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Xantheous

Is there any way to disagree on these forums and not be called a troll?

 

Anywho, I thought that this was one of the big draws to the game. Like it or not, they are not ready and they need your cash to keep ot going. Call it an investment..maybe you will feel better.

 

Wow really? I called the 2nd poster a troll because he trolled, he did not disagree with me in any way. Reading helps you not look stupid my friend.

 

I said this site not this thread.

Then why post it in this thread haha?

 

And as to your well written comment about them wanting your money and not being ready........... troll.

 

Thanks

It seems that you missed me mentioning "Siege as being a huge draw" and focused on everything else. IMO if something is not ready for launch, at launch, they should promise it as the first huge patch or expansion. My problem is not with the game really, I just that that they lack project management skills (among other things) and they do not seem to communicate with the player base enough. I know it is all a part of creating hype (i.e. Sony not mentioning Jedi's where in the game at launch or no siege/guild cities in AoC's launch) and If I seem jaded then I am so for great reason as are many other players. However, If this is a sign as to "what is to come" in Darkfall then I would say the future looks bleak.

 

I dont get it? How is sieging not ready for launch? It has happened many times in beta.

They communicate with the beta testers on important issues, and the rest is communicated through patch notes.

Originally posted by strongaxe 

What about when they release N. America servers? You think clans will have enough allies on at all times then? They are planning for the future.

Even if it's only a US server people are online in mmorpgs 24/7, guilds should have to make provisions to ensure that they have members with diverse playtimes.  This goes against the survival of the fitest spirit of the game.   I am not expecting to be the fitest by a long way, but that is the kind of gaming environment I want to play in.

Originally posted by atziluth

What is the material and gold cost on crafting repair shards? This could cripple a guild just as effectively as taking the untire city over. Especially if it is done on consecutive nights.

Costs for anything really just boild down to the amount of time you need to macro be it skillls or mats. Most guilds will have vaults full of repair shards.

I don't want to start a quote fest so I will just start a new convo

I did not say it was a bad idea, I just pointed out that it was another example of piss poor planning. I agree, players should not be expected to be online 24 and more to protect their player base but this information would have been better served weeks ago when they knew it would not be implemented by launch. Things like this just add to the negative overtones DFo has seen and I think this game has seen enough.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

What about when they release N. America servers? You think clans will have enough allies on at all times then? They are planning for the future.

 

Even if it's only a US server people are online in mmorpgs 24/7, guilds should have to make provisions to ensure that they have members with diverse playtimes.  This goes against the survival of the fitest spirit of the game.   I am not expecting to be the fitest by a long way, but that is the kind of gaming environment I want to play in.

I don't think guilds should be forced to recruit people they don't want to recruit. That is as much a restriction of freedoms as putting up a limited attack window. Restricting freedoms by forcing a specific way for making a guild goes against the spirit of the game as well. If a guild wants their membership to be only from their own country or even timezone, that should be a valid option. That choice should not be punished.

Survival of the fittest can still exist without taking away freedom of choice. You would have no more right to force a guild to be active 24/7 than I would have to force a guild not to play during late nights. Immunity shards (my other criticisms of the feature aside) allow both guilds types to be viable. And thats the kind of environment I want to play in.

Originally posted by Gorilla

Originally posted by atziluth

What is the material and gold cost on crafting repair shards? This could cripple a guild just as effectively as taking the untire city over. Especially if it is done on consecutive nights.

Costs for anything really just boild down to the amount of time you need to macro be it skillls or mats. Most guilds will have vaults full of repair shards.

There again this system would give a further significant advantage to zerg guilds. This also depends on AV keeping a lax stance on macroing which if the case will likely ruin the game anyways.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Gorilla

Originally posted by atziluth

What is the material and gold cost on crafting repair shards? This could cripple a guild just as effectively as taking the untire city over. Especially if it is done on consecutive nights.

Costs for anything really just boild down to the amount of time you need to macro be it skillls or mats. Most guilds will have vaults full of repair shards.

There again this system would give a further significant advantage to zerg guilds. This also depends on AV keeping a lax stance on macroing which if the case will likely ruin the game anyways.

No indication they have the will or the resources to change it. Of course the question then becomes is do they 'balance' around macroers or 'straight'?

Originally posted by Gorilla

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Gorilla

Originally posted by atziluth

What is the material and gold cost on crafting repair shards? This could cripple a guild just as effectively as taking the untire city over. Especially if it is done on consecutive nights.

Costs for anything really just boild down to the amount of time you need to macro be it skillls or mats. Most guilds will have vaults full of repair shards.

There again this system would give a further significant advantage to zerg guilds. This also depends on AV keeping a lax stance on macroing which if the case will likely ruin the game anyways.

No indication they have the will or the resources to change it. Of course the question then becomes is do they 'balance' around macroers or 'straight'?

I would love to see them reduce the time needed to level skills up to 75... if they fixed the progression increments to be noticeable along with faster increases that would remove the need for character macroing. If they removed universal banks that would go a long way towards balancing resource macroers as well... Both are changes I could embrace...

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

Why not? You can siege other late night clans. It is going to be played around the world, this just gives an option(that you will have to put an effort into getting) to protect your clan when you are asleep(whenever that may be).

 

I think this gives guilds far too much protection.  I would prefer it if 3am city destruction was in the game, I realise that this is probably unpopular but I feel that the game will be worse off without it.  Big guilds will be extremely hard to shift from their guild cities.

 

But big guilds should be hard to oust from their cities. 3am city sieges are just a stupid concept. Darkfall is still a game, and you cannot be on in force 24/7. Spending months building a city only to have it taken when you are asleep is not a mechanic that helps a game.

 

Full loot.

Isn't that the mantra of the DF fanboi internet tough guys?  Isn't that how they gauge their personal badass-ness?

So, why not full loot on cities?  Anytime.  Anyplace.

What if players are allowed at some point to make personal "protection shards" that would allow their bodies not to be looted?  Wouldn't that go against the core concept of the game?

DF fanatics preach freedom of action as a main selling point of this game.  So, what is DF really about - freedom, or security?

Why does a individual who likes full loot games have to be an internet tough guy and a wannabe badass? You can attack someone city, anytime, any place.  You just cant siege them without declaring siege, and if they are under the protection shard you wont be able to declare siege.

 

Calm down haha. Darkfall fans do want full loot and freedom, but of course we still want the game to be fun and not require being on 24/7. Believe it or not Darkfall fans have lives as well! Has any Darkfall fan asked that your character remain logged in even when you are offline? Funny how quick you are to try and jump on the concept of player freedom, did some DF fans come into your house and break your moms legs or somthing?

So, DF fans dig freedom.... until it becomes inconvenient.  Then, it's time to slap a Carebear bandaid on it.

Gee, I hope the addition of such carebear rules doesn't damage the fragile egos of the manly, super-tough DF players.

LOL.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

How so? I think it is a great idea. It allows for clans to use these when they are sleep. Being on 24/7 is not really viable.

 Almost all the beta testers think it is a good idea as well.

 

What about people that play late at night? 

This effectively means that they are not going to be able to form late night guilds and do some seiging.

I agree with Blodpls on this one.

Giving clans the ability to make themselves safe from challenges for up to 12 hours seems to be counter to the whole FFA PvP aspect of the game. 

Once you head down that path of adding more and more options for "saftey" ... it isn't a very far reach to get to Trammel next.   Wasn't that something that most fans of DarkFall wanted to avoid? 

The over-protective NPC guard-towers were already quite a bit more than most fans were expecting to see, now clans will be able to be safe from challenges for up to 12 hours at a time?  So then what is next? 

Not sure if this is the direction that the Devs should be taking the game towards since it was said to be full freedom and FFA PvP. 

Anyway, in my opinion DarkFall should be catering towards their strengths... which is the FFA PvP aspect of the game.  They should re-examine the forced allies aspect, re-examine the blue-red-grey PvP flagging, and re-examine this 12-hour safety net part.  The PvP is DarkFall's strength.  They should be encouraging it... not restricting it.

If they want to help clans protect their cities then let them build walls and towers sooner in the build tree instead of towards the end.  Most cities want to get their defenses up first thing.  Unfortunately you are forced to build many other buildings before you even have a chance to build walls and towers. 

I think they'd be better off allowing the clan to decide what buildings they want to build rather than be forced into a strict pre-determined buiild tree.  Let the clan decide when they want to build the bank, and everything else the city is capable of supporting. 

If the clan want to go full out defense... let them.  If the clan wants to go full out resource production (up to the capabilities of their city site) let them.  

I guess I just don't understand all these pre-concieved barriers put in place in a MMO that is supposed to be a sandbox.  What is wrong with letting the player decide some of this stuff for themselves?  That is supposed to be the benefit of a sandbox MMO... the player gets to decide. 

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

How so? I think it is a great idea. It allows for clans to use these when they are sleep. Being on 24/7 is not really viable.

 Almost all the beta testers think it is a good idea as well.

 

What about people that play late at night? 

This effectively means that they are not going to be able to form late night guilds and do some seiging.

I disagree. They're probably going to be hard to find/make/obtain, so I wouldn't worry about it. Plus, it ranges from 2-12 hours. So, let's say they use a 2 hour shard, you can still attack them late at night.

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by strongaxe 

Why not? You can siege other late night clans. It is going to be played around the world, this just gives an option(that you will have to put an effort into getting) to protect your clan when you are asleep(whenever that may be).

 

I think this gives guilds far too much protection.  I would prefer it if 3am city destruction was in the game, I realise that this is probably unpopular but I feel that the game will be worse off without it.  Big guilds will be extremely hard to shift from their guild cities.

 

But big guilds should be hard to oust from their cities. 3am city sieges are just a stupid concept. Darkfall is still a game, and you cannot be on in force 24/7. Spending months building a city only to have it taken when you are asleep is not a mechanic that helps a game.

 

Full loot.

Isn't that the mantra of the DF fanboi internet tough guys?  Isn't that how they gauge their personal badass-ness?

So, why not full loot on cities?  Anytime.  Anyplace.

What if players are allowed at some point to make personal "protection shards" that would allow their bodies not to be looted?  Wouldn't that go against the core concept of the game?

DF fanatics preach freedom of action as a main selling point of this game.  So, what is DF really about - freedom, or security?

Why does a individual who likes full loot games have to be an internet tough guy and a wannabe badass? You can attack someone city, anytime, any place.  You just cant siege them without declaring siege, and if they are under the protection shard you wont be able to declare siege.

 

Calm down haha. Darkfall fans do want full loot and freedom, but of course we still want the game to be fun and not require being on 24/7. Believe it or not Darkfall fans have lives as well! Has any Darkfall fan asked that your character remain logged in even when you are offline? Funny how quick you are to try and jump on the concept of player freedom, did some DF fans come into your house and break your moms legs or somthing?

 

So, DF fans dig freedom.... until it becomes inconvenient.  Then, it's time to slap a Carebear bandaid on it.

Gee, I hope the addition of such carebear rules doesn't damage the fragile egos of the manly, super-tough DF players.

LOL.

When it takes months to build a city, harbor, etc., it wouldn't be "fun" to go to sleep one night only to wake up with it all destroyed now would it?

Sure we all want freedom, sure we all want full loot, but there needs to be a system in place to allow guilds to effectively defend themselves.

Shadowbane has siege rules that allowed for vulnerability timeframes, and it worked great. Nothing "carebear" about not losing 2 months of guild work at 5 A.M. by some European guild that waits for you to sleep. Some of us actually have lives you know.