I really like what I see but my goal is end game raiding. Is Vanguard as challenging as say WoW end game? From the videos I could find, it seems like  it is nothing more than gang up on Boss and whack it to death sort of encounters.

End game raiding can have its ups and downs...One thing thats different about it is, that you're only allowed 3 groups so basically an 18 man raid...you can bring along a 4th group to fill in for replacing people who have to leave...

But I dont see it being any different from WoW...As long if you know the strategy then its like what you say "gang up on the boss and whack it" It goes for WoW as well...End game raiding is SUPER DUPER BORING...When I was playing I raided with my guild for over 1 year and they still havent gotten the full raid gear yet...So you're stuck with raiding the same crap everyday...even though you have your full set  of raid gear and weapons, you're going to end up raiding for other people who hasnt gotten theirs...

Good Luck....

BTW, if you're a crafter...you can make better stuff than raid gear...but thats the downside...you have to raid for the materials...LoL so you're stuck raiding for it regardless...

it seems all the MMOGs end up with the same result...

I only know APW so far and there I never saw Kotasoth.

The known bosses are mainly tank & spank with some exceptions. All encounter have some twist you have to find out, but I miss fights where you have to move and such things. On the other hand there are no tools which tell you what to do, so the fights are probably more difficult then wow ones now.

The most difficult raidencounter in VG are the new overlands. These fights require 4 full groups and seem very hard. Only a few guilds challenge those and little do I know about these. I think Murugan is in a guild which raids those, so he might be able to give some more infos.

Originally posted by Tahiti

I really like what I see but my goal is end game raiding. Is Vanguard as challenging as say WoW end game? From the videos I could find, it seems like  it is nothing more than gang up on Boss and whack it to death sort of encounters.

I find the end game very challenging.  There are many guilds that will not be able to finish APW.  Some guilds have left the game in frustration because they couldn't move beyond the Core.  Others guilds have merged until they had a talented enough force to conquer APW.

I never played WoW long enough to experience a raid mob there.  However, I can tell you some in our guild play both EQ2 and Vanguard and they say combat in Vanguard is much more complex and the encounters much more interesting.

The first couple bosses in APW are pretty much tank and spank.  They've got a couple tricks up their sleeve, but nothing too complex.  Vicus introduces a bit more and to this day is a fight people really enjoy.  Zaraax also has some unique things he does which requires a complete different approach.  So of the five bosses in the entrance wing, two prove to be  difficult to figure out and conquer.  The other three are a matter of having a decently geared force with people that know what they are doing.

Fast forward to the Vault Wing (months of progression for some).  As you progress, most bosses become very interesting and you'll only find a couple standard tank and spanks... like Exalted.  After Exalted comes the Core, there are quests required to activate the Core, the Core is guarded by an Assault Module and a Defense Module and the entire room has nasty tricks in store.  It took us a month to figure this fight out and I have to say, it's the funnest fight so far in the entire dungeon.  Many that play VG says it's the funnest fight they've had in any game.  Coordination, communication, focus and skill are the only way to win this fight.  Everyone is moving and something is always happening... if one person messes up their job, it can be a wipe. 

Finally, something to keep in mind on even the standard tank and spank, the VG combat system is very deep and complex and just figuring out how to maximize a classes performance in a given fight takes a lot of throught.  We've figured out different ways to kill some boss mobs just because of our efforts around maximizing certain class abilities, attacks, gear bonuses etc.

Odd. Core is a pretty static fight for us. Offtank + 2 healer for assault, MT pops the grids and tanks defence. Burn down the unstables. The only movement is for melee dps if a grid is about to pop, just the normal jousting though.

The fight with most movement involved seems to be shiver. I die often there, but I like it.

Originally posted by Shol

Odd. Core is a pretty static fight for us. Offtank + 2 healer for assault, MT pops the grids and tanks defence. Burn down the unstables. The only movement is for melee dps if a grid is about to pop, just the normal jousting though.

The fight with most movement involved seems to be shiver. I die often there, but I like it.

Doh!  Strat spoiler!

A friend watch us do the Shiver fight while he visited.  He said it looked like a violent waltz.  We've always done very well on Shiver, I think some of our strats are unique.  About 1/3 of the time the Core beats us now.... seems to happen whenever we put in a newer raider and/or alt and they do something wrong and the whole thing starts to unravel.