First person shooters require no skill because all you really hit is LMB.

Do you see how rediculous that is? You are saying the same thing when you say Darkfall doesn't require skill, sure you click the left mouse button a lot, but you have to worry about friendly fire and actually hitting your opponent.

And I hope that they never add crowd control to the game. There is NOTHING more annoying than dieing to something that you can't prevent, like fear effects, stuns, and holds. They really don't take much skill to use, and it takes away all the fun on the opponents part as they just watch in frustration as their character takes a beating, and can't do anything to stop it.

Originally posted by tombear81

 I think we cn all agree the combat in mount and blade looks better. 

You know M&B has not to worry about  "a complexe world " + "on a different location (server)"  + "other human players"  + "magic spells"

?

Yes it looks better and its a ton of a lot easier to look better for it, without all that what DarkFall has addiditionally to offer in the way..

I have mixed feelings when it comes to Mount & Blade combat, I found melee attacks/blocking to be too slow paced, didn't feel any realistic at all, but I admit I prefer this kind of combat compared to any kind of turn based fighting system. Attacking while mounted was a blast though.

I guess melee real time combat is the hardest style to simulate in a game, making it fun/strategic, meaningful. Can't remember of one with a good melee combat.

Originally posted by ImperiumRule

Originally posted by DarkPony

You are right in quite some things I guess. But still, stuff like being able to keep running no matter what (no staggering, limping or other very realistic consequences of, for instance, having your kneecap shattered)

I admire their choice to not have CC in the game, but I would also like to see something to stop the running.  But hey who wouldnt try to escape from a fight they know they cant win?  Anyways they changed the cool downs of potions to make it harder to sprint for awhile, and they are aware of the issue and will make more changes.  Also if you are actually in a fight, you arent going to be able to get away since you still eat up a lot of your stamina taking hits and dishing out attacks, so i guess you can consider that "battle wear and tear" when trying to run away.

Since you brought WOW up; In WOW each class has a myriad of unique abilities to use in PVP, each with their own animation and besides anticipating your oponents skills, you have to manage your own sequences perfectly, totally in respect to the specific situation you are in. Next to that you ALSO have to manage 'lifeblood' bars like stamina / mana / rage and the lot. I do agree that pvp is way more real without those neon sign names and in that regard I love the overall realistic aproach of pvp in Darkfall.

I completely agree, and the reason i didnt say what you did is i didnt want to go more into a discussion about WoW combat than DF, just wanted the comparison.  I havent played WoW in years, but it use to be that you usually had a standard plan of attack vs the other class (since you knew exactly what you were up against usually) and the fights didnt take that much skill after gear and then it was just timing your interupts and maybe getting out of the range of certain attacks.  Im not saying DF is more combat exciting that WoW, i compared them because i think they are both involving, just obviously very different mechanic wise.  That sounds wierd but i mean it in the sense of the actual thought process that goes into a fight.

I yet have to see some more variety in melee, though. That might come when people get to higher skill levels but I will wait and see whether that happens before I buy the game. In the meanwhile I hope they get to update some of the existing animations.

The seize melee attack seems to be broken, not sure about whirlwind or other stuff...in beta i really wanted to test out magic and crafting so my melee skills were low, but i still had a lot of experience in melee.

 

Ok lets try this again since my first response to your post (A lengthy one that i refuse to retype) didnt post.

 

  Thanks for the reply. It suckzors to loose lengthy posts, I am a veteran in that. Can't add much to your reply, really. We pretty much agree I guess. And like someone else wrote: stuff will get updated fairly soon, most probably :)

Originally posted by Darkstar111

Originally posted by tombear81

 I think we can all agree the combat in mount and blade looks better.  You have to do particular moves to block attacks from a particular direction.  Really simply system which works well.

My main concern with DF is the running back and forth and the lack of sense of warriors being locked in combat Partly due to the excessive speed and what looks more like "dogfighting" by running past enemies and getting a hit. In MB you could not simply turn around and start running without pretty much dieing or losing lots of health (well on hard anyways).  It just doesn't look as cool as MB and every fight seems like it needs "can can" music to it. They really need to do something about the running around. Once your locked into melee then the option is fight. Running is only an option for the beginning or desperate (and unlikely to work) ending.

Likewise where the heck  are shields and blocking  ? Not seen a single arrow in a shield yet. So much for any 300 style tactics eh ? 

U can block with ur weapon as well, and many ppl do it reduces dmg by 40% i think.

With a shield its 90 %

 

Never played MB, but with full loot there is no way runnign away isnt an option, im not loosing my gear to some gank squad unless they can catch me.

 

-Darkstar

 

 

Grab a trial version of mount and blade and you will see why many people think DF combat is simply not as good.

Also I never said running away was not an option. I said running away during a fight and turning your back on an enemy should be almost always lethal. Fight or flee is a decision for the end of a fight or desperate. All I see is is people fighitng,  disengaging, fighting disengaging. If covering your back was important this would meana  buddy pair system for combat would be great.

Incidently the AI in MB is not too great at helping one another out but in DF with real players this is a missed opportunity that seemsto  leads to "bee swarm" fighting.

I find it pretty dull. TR was far better. AC was better hell even Dungeon Runners is better. As for using skills he who has macroed longest will have the l33t3st skillz.

Originally posted by jimsmith08

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

Originally posted by COORS

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by poppets

sorry but no.

There is absolutely no skill or depth in ANY part of this game... and for sure not the combat which is nothing more than a mouse click fest while you run around like some kind of a skitzo maniac looking while watching the terrible animations

 

The above is a commen statement from those that haven't figured it out yet. If you simply circle strafe and spam LMB you die against anyone that has an ounce of skill.

 

Sorry your wrong lol.

 

Skill? Okay, I'll bite. What tremendous skill do you actually need?

All I've seen in the videos AND what I've read from beta testers ON Forumfall, where the fans reside, dispute what you are saying.

The MELEE combat appears to be nothing more than jumping, bunny-hopping, running and clicking your mouse over and over. Doesnt matter what weapon you're using either, they all function exactly the same.

So... You're telling me there's actually great skill involved? Maybe... But I know what I saw and read from testers.

 

The majority of n00bs that dont get the new skills or even just sit and camp n00b hunting grounds ar ethe ones that say this.  Step into the BETA discussion and see what it looks like.  This the most fun any of us PVPers has had.  Even the beta "Trolls" will admit they've had fun in this game moreso than others. 

Just because you dont have a hotbar with 9 different skills to use and just have to /follow someone and use these skill sdoesnt mean its a no-skill required came cause you "Just click LMB"    

Get ito the game and try to find a fight and see how you fare.  What it appears to be, and what it actaully tends to be are completely different things.

 

You wont need 9 hotkeys,just left mouse and T to switch attack direction.Unless youre using one of the few available melee skills of course,in which case youll need another 5.

This i know, beenin beta since mid december, read again its explaining to the kiddies that play these wow clones that claim this game is skill-less because of the lack of hotbar'd special attacks.
 

Originally posted by Gorilla

I find it pretty dull. TR was far better. AC was better hell even Dungeon Runners is better. As for using skills he who has macroed longest will have the l33t3st skillz.

He who  macroed the longest will get owned cause it would mean he didnt learn how to play the game.  Naked n00bs who actually PK are better than most outfitted players cause most of the outfitted players dont even know what is going on.  You actaully need to know the dynamics of the game, how to move, when to strike.

TR was crap, AC was a hell of a lot of funa nd this brings back most of the days of good PVP.  Dungeon runners........i dont even know where your going with that one.....

Macroes in the game are mainly just to try to reach higher levels in magic and to gather resources, the majority of combat skills (Including but not limited to magic) are best leveled on the battlefield.  Not only does it not take long to level these skills but you gain the knowledge of how to properly use them (like in almost any regular FPS) and of course aquire better loot through PVP (and in some PVE).  If you havent played beta and only seen some of the trailer videos this is coming from someone who played it first hand.

Originally posted by tombear81

Originally posted by Darkstar111

Originally posted by tombear81

 I think we can all agree the combat in mount and blade looks better.  You have to do particular moves to block attacks from a particular direction.  Really simply system which works well.

My main concern with DF is the running back and forth and the lack of sense of warriors being locked in combat Partly due to the excessive speed and what looks more like "dogfighting" by running past enemies and getting a hit. In MB you could not simply turn around and start running without pretty much dieing or losing lots of health (well on hard anyways).  It just doesn't look as cool as MB and every fight seems like it needs "can can" music to it. They really need to do something about the running around. Once your locked into melee then the option is fight. Running is only an option for the beginning or desperate (and unlikely to work) ending.

Likewise where the heck  are shields and blocking  ? Not seen a single arrow in a shield yet. So much for any 300 style tactics eh ? 

U can block with ur weapon as well, and many ppl do it reduces dmg by 40% i think.

With a shield its 90 %

 

Never played MB, but with full loot there is no way runnign away isnt an option, im not loosing my gear to some gank squad unless they can catch me.

 

-Darkstar

 

 

 

Grab a trial version of mount and blade and you will see why many people think DF combat is simply not as good.

Also I never said running away was not an option. I said running away during a fight and turning your back on an enemy should be almost always lethal. Fight or flee is a decision for the end of a fight or desperate. All I see is is people fighitng,  disengaging, fighting disengaging. If covering your back was important this would meana  buddy pair system for combat would be great.

Incidently the AI in MB is not too great at helping one another out but in DF with real players this is a missed opportunity that seemsto  leads to "bee swarm" fighting.

Yellow and Red statements contradict each other.

Incidently getting hit in the back DOES more damage in DFO, and as u urself can see from the videos most of the running proved fruitless. At least in those videos.

But ppl are new to the game, still experimenting with its mechanics, we have no way of telling how the game will look after players have gotten truly good at it.

-Darkstar

oh my, another  silly post by op, about how much wow combat blows and how much darkfall combat owns,

wow combat is one of hardest in mmorgps.. im not talking about lvling or just questing.. im talking about high end pvp/pve , so dont bs me.. saying all you do is lock down and hit few keys

go 3v3 5v5 combat.. where you can die in 3s if you move correncly dont use xx spell at same second.. or attacking wrong target... go ahead

this general combat comparison , is getting out of hand.. unless you have proof that you had over 2.2k in arena team ( i wont care about imblance in wow arenas, some stronger some weaker.. strong class with your "lock down , buttom smash, wont beat even weakest class so get real )

i didnt saw anything hard in darkfall , wow horizontal vertical attack.. oh my magic.. which is terrible hard.. point shoot.. archery.. point shoot , just master it in few days.. till you know where to point so it lands there.. = skill

yawn.. oh should i do knockback or normal attack.. or horizontal.. hows that compares to skill

every game compares some sort of skill would be easest game or not.. 90% ppl never reach those 10% in any game

every game is hard in its way, same way its easy, anyone who been playing games for 10 years. will find everything much easer.. than someone who been playing for a year..

Well if there is any, and I do mean any, strategy to the combat in this game none of the videos that have been made of it show it. All they show is a lot of running around randomly swinging your weapon hoping that the guy you are chasing runs out of stamina before he finds a group of friends or gets near enough to a guard tower to use it against you. In the world I come from people don't run away so much when they are fighting, and those that do generally fall when they get an arrow in the back. So Darkfall is not realistic, not fun and in no way strategic. Cling to it like it's something special if you feel you must, but it's going to be dead in 6 months. The only fun part people are going to get out of this game is setting up ambushes where they can kill people who are out on their own. Woooo... Darkfall is a failboat adrift on the fail sea with a thousand failures attempting to steer it away from the failberg that is destined to tear it into a billion tiny little fail pieces that will fail their way to the depth of failure. Fail.

Originally posted by Smikis

oh my, another  silly post by op, about how much wow combat blows and how much darkfall combat owns,

wow combat is one of hardest in mmorgps.. im not talking about lvling or just questing.. im talking about high end pvp/pve , so dont bs me.. saying all you do is lock down and hit few keys

 

go 3v3 5v5 combat.. where you can die in 3s if you move correncly dont use xx spell at same second.. or attacking wrong target... go ahead

 

this general combat comparison , is getting out of hand.. unless you have proof that you had over 2.2k in arena team ( i wont care about imblance in wow arenas, some stronger some weaker.. strong class with your "lock down , buttom smash, wont beat even weakest class so get real )

 

i didnt saw anything hard in darkfall , wow horizontal vertical attack.. oh my magic.. which is terrible hard.. point shoot.. archery.. point shoot , just master it in few days.. till you know where to point so it lands there.. = skill

yawn.. oh should i do knockback or normal attack.. or horizontal.. hows that compares to skill

 

every game compares some sort of skill would be easest game or not.. 90% ppl never reach those 10% in any game

every game is hard in its way, same way its easy, anyone who been playing games for 10 years. will find everything much easer.. than someone who been playing for a year..

The main difference between WoW and Darkfall (other than true twitch combat) is the fact that you can tell your arrow where to land, or your magic projetictiles where to fly, but that doesnt mean it will hit.  Character, not AI.  They can dodge these skills and even if you happen to land it also depends on what kinda armor they have and resistances.

I know the armor / resistances are very common among mmo's, but the fact of the matter is Lets see you getinto a 3v3 or 5v5 in darkfall and lets, not see you get a score, but keep your loot.  Not to mention in darkfall there is friendly fire, so you try getting in one of those giant globs and you'll see a whole lot of hurtin goin down.  Not to mention there is also collision detection, so contradictions are here!

Both of these games require their own amount of skill, WoW you might need to just keep up with someone  and know when to use your attacks, but darkfall you use the wrong type of weapon or dont know what your doing andyour basicaly dead.  Your friends are there sure, could they heal you?  Absolutely, but their healing other skillls are projectile so they need to amke sure to hit you and not the enemy or hte enemy gets healed.

Darkfall is not about being a cookie cutter mmo to finaly get it right, its about breaking the mold and bringing something new to the genre while also catering to the players of old.  Darkfall is not a game where you compare scores, but you compare skulls.  It is a game that is not about equipment, for that is really easy to find, lose and replace.  It is about living in a harsh environment where no one is invisible and you will need to protect yourself and watch your back or you might find yourself getting decapitated.

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Well if there is any, and I do mean any, strategy to the combat in this game none of the videos that have been made of it show it. All they show is a lot of running around randomly swinging your weapon hoping that the guy you are chasing runs out of stamina before he finds a group of friends or gets near enough to a guard tower to use it against you. In the world I come from people don't run away so much when they are fighting, and those that do generally fall when they get an arrow in the back. So Darkfall is not realistic, not fun and in no way strategic. Cling to it like it's something special if you feel you must, but it's going to be dead in 6 months. The only fun part people are going to get out of this game is setting up ambushes where they can kill people who are out on their own. Woooo... Darkfall is a failboat adrift on the fail sea with a thousand failures attempting to steer it away from the failberg that is destined to tear it into a billion tiny little fail pieces that will fail their way to the depth of failure. Fail.

Most of the videos shown are done by developers to give it a feel of a great battle.  If you watch player videos you'll see alittle more of how active the combat is, and i mean you can easily say "They're just running around randomly swinging"  well keep in mind it does not auto attack like WoW, and you need to get keep moving in order to try to dodge attacks. 

If you watch the majority of player pvp videos the ones that do run get Arrows, magic and hell even melee waepons to the back (Back yields more damage to attacks).  Just because someone runs away doesnt mean they need to run outta stamina, YOU (the player) will just need to be smart enought o use it to your advantage.

If your close enough to someone or think you have a line of fire, of course your going to try to swing, but that doesnt give you the guarantee you will make contact so if you dont like the fact that you might have to swing multiple times, I'll truely say your loss.  There has even been Ex-WoW (notice i said ex) fanatics that came into beta whom were EXTREMELY suprised about how fun this combat system was compared to WoW.  And yes there is a lack of special attacks through melee and Archery, but there will be additions.  But skills are not ment to be the END all Be ALL of combat, they're merely there to dish out a tad bit of extra damage.

I just want a clarification on something. Now, I haven't seen much video content of this game, but is it at all like Elder Scrolls Oblivion? If it is, then thats all that needs to be said about combat. Oblivion has a more simple approach to the combat, whereas I'm thinking in Darkfall the combat is more in depth. I am really looking forward to actually being challenged in an MMO.

Originally posted by dark-merlin

This is 100% correct

 

The game with basic melee/archery/magic is more involved than 99% of mmos at high level PVP

 

sure if u stand still and press left click there is only going to be a horizontal/vertical attack...lol

 

To learn the  combat system u have to apply yourself, learn how to do it...of course a youtube video will not show this

I'm not playinIg the beta, but it sounds like DF has an FPS type targeting system. Please tell me it's true. One of the things I've always hated about MMOs -- targeting. 

Tab > 1 > 2 > 1 > 5 > mob dead

Oh yeah, that's fun 

EDIT: In some games (WAR, for example) your character even turns to face the target without you doing anything. WTF? No no no no no...

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by dark-merlin

This is 100% correct

 

The game with basic melee/archery/magic is more involved than 99% of mmos at high level PVP

 

sure if u stand still and press left click there is only going to be a horizontal/vertical attack...lol

 

To learn the  combat system u have to apply yourself, learn how to do it...of course a youtube video will not show this

I'm not playinIg the beta, but it sounds like DF has an FPS type targeting system. Please tell me it's true. One of the things I've always hated about MMOs -- targeting. 

Tab > 1 > 2 > 1 > 5 > mob dead

Oh yeah, that's fun 

It's true and honestly the only problem i have with combat is Block/parry sucks ass.

Does not work like in  mount and blade for example.

Originally posted by Tukieu13

I just want a clarification on something. Now, I haven't seen much video content of this game, but is it at all like Elder Scrolls Oblivion? If it is, then thats all that needs to be said about combat. Oblivion has a more simple approach to the combat, whereas I'm thinking in Darkfall the combat is more in depth. I am really looking forward to actually being challenged in an MMO.

I've been told its alot like oblivion, havent played it myself but having played MOUNT AND BLADE its actually similar to that.  Alittle more optimised in terms of speed and usage but the combat is very similar.

This game willchallenge you.  No more icons to show you where your enemy is, if they run away from ytou and get enough distance and find a nice rock/tree/shrubs to hide behind and you cant find themm, their as good as gone (Lots of personal experiences with this, mainly on the sharp end of hte sword lol).

Originally posted by Smikis

oh my, another  silly post by op, about how much wow combat blows and how much darkfall combat owns,

wow combat is one of hardest in mmorgps.. im not talking about lvling or just questing.. im talking about high end pvp/pve , so dont bs me.. saying all you do is lock down and hit few keys

 

go 3v3 5v5 combat.. where you can die in 3s if you move correncly dont use xx spell at same second.. or attacking wrong target... go ahead

 

this general combat comparison , is getting out of hand.. unless you have proof that you had over 2.2k in arena team ( i wont care about imblance in wow arenas, some stronger some weaker.. strong class with your "lock down , buttom smash, wont beat even weakest class so get real )

 

i didnt saw anything hard in darkfall , wow horizontal vertical attack.. oh my magic.. which is terrible hard.. point shoot.. archery.. point shoot , just master it in few days.. till you know where to point so it lands there.. = skill

yawn.. oh should i do knockback or normal attack.. or horizontal.. hows that compares to skill

 

every game compares some sort of skill would be easest game or not.. 90% ppl never reach those 10% in any game

every game is hard in its way, same way its easy, anyone who been playing games for 10 years. will find everything much easer.. than someone who been playing for a year..

WoW arena combat is less skill and more having the right combination of classes and talents. Any game where no matter how good you are, if you see a certain class it will completely dominate you almost every time, is a failure. Like how (at least it was when I played) mages could completely dominate warriors, paladins, shaman, hunters, well basically everyone but warlocks, but if they see a warlock they just get completely dominated, no matter what they do. Sure, I could occasionally kill a warlock. If I ambushed him and critted him with a fireball, and a fire blast, and a dragons breath, and a blastwave. And he didnt have the talent that made him immune to fire for a few seconds 30% of the time he is hit by it.

I HIGHLY doubt the game has changed much. It is, and always has been, having the right combination of classes, skill is just finding the order to click your buttons. Which you can find the order that is most efficient online.

I wouldnt call any game that didnt require at least several months to master as a "skill" game. Chess would be a game of skill.

May as well face it that MMOs are just not the place to go for "skilled" combat. Nothing in any MMO takes more than a week or two of pactice to get things down to the point where ping and other factors become the usual deciding factors. Biggest skill is and always will be picking your fights to have the best chance of winning.