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2/19/09 7:52:38 PM#51
Originally posted by Ihmotepp While good advice it's won't cut it for WoW clones unless they are at least 20 times better than wow due to one simple reason, player inertia. Majority will not be tempted to "start again" in what is in majority of cases basiclly a copy of WoW with maybe a gimmik or two
There will not be another success like WoW for about another decade unless someone comes up with something totally new that meets those criteria I need a new MMO world to call home as Tom Chilton keeps destroying them |
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2/19/09 7:52:56 PM#52
Originally posted by Lustmord
I don't know what that word means...
So I'm gonna take it as an insult.
LMAO! Thanks for the chuckle!! Lori:) |
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2/20/09 2:01:24 AM#53
Originally posted by Dreamagram He missed one very important point: "Don't try to do too much." I remember Brad McQuaid talking about Vanguard while it was in development and he was talking so much crap about the "perception" system in combat and gameplay. They put all this effort into something so stupid and in the end wound up scrapping it and most of the combat system. The same thing happened to diplomacy. The combat in WoW is still unmatched in the genre. No other game feels as "right" in combat as WoW does. All the questing and running around and the time you invest into a character...it only happens if you enjoy playing your character. Whether its melee fighting, casting spells or shooting a bow it needs to be satisfying for the player. Its both the simplest and most difficult aspect for a developer to nail down and it's the most critical. |
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2/20/09 8:49:55 AM#54
The mechanics, UI and control are the special features WOW has that no other MMO shares. Sure, you're still pressing buttons, casting spells, running around doing quests, crafting, ect like in every other MMO. But they never felt right to me until WOW. They felt clumsy and awkward and very tedious before WOW. They haven't felt right after either. I really don't understand the people who claim such expertise and knowledge about the genre then go on and say "WOW is just a clone of EQ" or "has nothing unique" or "copied everything". It proves to me these people, regardless of when they started playing MMOs, know so little about how games really work. If they did those kind of dumb statements wouldn't be typed. They know so much less than they think they do. They're in this thread=) |
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2/20/09 8:56:57 AM#55
Originally posted by Josher Copied directly from AC1 and AC2. Come on people, are ALL of you new to MMO's? |
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I agree that combat is also important. Even with the rest of the items on the list, it's not going to work without great combat.
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2/20/09 10:13:47 AM#57
Originally posted by Dreamagram How to Create a successful MMO by Jeff Strain (Guild Wars) www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php is also an excellent read for post WOW mmos |
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2/20/09 10:17:15 AM#58
here i am now watching your forum..!!! but lol your nice how did you recognize that? im gonna kick ass on this thread Searching.. |
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2/20/09 10:24:00 AM#59
I've been sitting here reading this thread and getting all worked up. I get MAD at WoW. Not because I'm jealous at their success over [insert my favorite MMO here] But because they have effectively broken the MMORPG genre for me. The thing that brought people together in The Good Old Daystm was the exact same thing that makes life-long friends of people who go through Boot Camp together. Shared Adversity. I can remember spending an entire month with a friend in Permafrost (EQ1) trying to get a weapon that we wanted that wasn't really Uber. We hung out in there every bit of play time we had. We literally didn't leave that zone for the entire month. Our friend, who was a wizard and therefore the only person who had any sort of teleportation abilities at all, would make a trip every couple of days to bring in a supply of food and drink (because characters actually required food and drink back then or they would eventually starve) and to sell off the loot we had aquired. I was a barbarian warrior and had a grand total of 6 abilities at level 36. None of them let me become invincable for any period of time. The most supernatural ability I had was called "bind wounds" and it would let me use bandages to eventually get my health up after combat to a max of 50%. We didn't have health potions, because those were insanely expensive and not that effective. All in all, we had a rough time of it. And I Had A Blast! You what I remember from WoW? Not much. I had dozens of very memorable experiences in EQ1, and NONE in WoW. NOTICE: I did not once say that YOUR game was bad. I didn't say that WoW players are lemmings that can't be bothered to face challenges and adversity for their accomplishments. I did not state that the reason WoW seems so polished is because it's not hard to polish the easy button. All I did was spew a bit of an anecdote that effectivly illustrates why *I* don't think WoW is fun at all. In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams |
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Vhaln
 Elite Member
Joined: 7/07/05
Love the genre, just not how slowly it's growing out of its formulaic infancy. |
2/20/09 10:31:53 AM#60
Originally posted by Calind0r
That's because they can't do anything about the fact that they'll never have #2 (heritage) on that list, and so many fall flat on #1 (polish), too. EQ2 never stood a chance, because the original EQ was just a tiny niche game compared to any of Blizzard's previous games. That's really their #1. A fan of games I like, not the other way round. |
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2/20/09 10:43:18 AM#61
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Copied directly from AC1 and AC2. Come on people, are ALL of you new to MMO's?
I guess the concept of "copy" went over your head. Come on, are all of you new to comprehension=) A circular minimap in the corner means copy? Of course is does...to the stupid. Damn Blizzard copied HPs and the concept of EXP as well, and Magic and using sky to represent UP and ground to walk on and NPCs and written quests and showing a sun and a moon. Can't they think up their own unique way of representing night and day? Damn hacks copied everything=) |
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2/20/09 11:32:12 AM#62
Originally posted by Josher
I guess the concept of "copy" went over your head. Come on, are all of you new to comprehension=) A circular minimap in the corner means copy? Of course is does...to the stupid. Damn Blizzard copied HPs and the concept of EXP as well, and Magic and using sky to represent UP and ground to walk on and NPCs and written quests and showing a sun and a moon. Can't they think up their own unique way of representing night and day? Damn hacks copied everything=) They did actually. But you’re not talking about what you were before, The mechanics, UI and Controls are all directly copied and tweaked from AC2.
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2/20/09 11:41:00 AM#63
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I guess the concept of "copy" went over your head. Come on, are all of you new to comprehension=) A circular minimap in the corner means copy? Of course is does...to the stupid. Damn Blizzard copied HPs and the concept of EXP as well, and Magic and using sky to represent UP and ground to walk on and NPCs and written quests and showing a sun and a moon. Can't they think up their own unique way of representing night and day? Damn hacks copied everything=) They did actually. But you’re not talking about what you were before, The mechanics, UI and Controls are all directly copied and tweaked from AC2.
They DIDN'T actually. I played AC2. WOW is only like it in that they're both MMOs. Unless you think WOW also plays just like EQ or a Porsch drives like Fiat because they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel ;) I suggest looking at the Warcraft series and DIablo interfaces to see where Blizzard might've gotten some ideas. |
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2/20/09 11:47:48 AM#64
Whats the deal about who copied from whom? This world runs on people improving stuff already invented...... Phillips makes a lot more from the light bulb than Edison did..... Blizz has the money to make better games now....people will expect them to create polished, MMO titles in the future, and would give that a shot, a lot easier than DF....(fingers crossed)
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2/20/09 11:53:22 AM#65
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I guess the concept of "copy" went over your head. Come on, are all of you new to comprehension=) A circular minimap in the corner means copy? Of course is does...to the stupid. Damn Blizzard copied HPs and the concept of EXP as well, and Magic and using sky to represent UP and ground to walk on and NPCs and written quests and showing a sun and a moon. Can't they think up their own unique way of representing night and day? Damn hacks copied everything=) They did actually. But you’re not talking about what you were before, The mechanics, UI and Controls are all directly copied and tweaked from AC2.
Somehow I doubt blizzard looked to a failed and shut down mmo to get their ques on how to build a successful one.
There are some similiarities, but those same similarities exist in many other games as well. Not limited to mmos even, but I am not agruing that blizzard reinvented the wheel. They just made it better. |
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2/20/09 12:14:50 PM#66
Originally posted by ishist
LOL .. that was the BAD old days for me. Extensive camping without extreme boredom & nothing to show. Little variety in abilities and game play style. WOW is a GOD SENT after EQ. Quest grinding >>> mob grinding. At least i got to kill different mobs and do different things. And WOW makes the horrible camping go away.
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2/20/09 12:40:54 PM#67
Originally posted by Daffid011 They did actually. But you’re not talking about what you were before, The mechanics, UI and Controls are all directly copied and tweaked from AC2.
Somehow I doubt blizzard looked to a failed and shut down mmo to get their ques on how to build a successful one.
There are some similiarities, but those same similarities exist in many other games as well. Not limited to mmos even, but I am not agruing that blizzard reinvented the wheel. They just made it better.
Yes, yes they did. And AC2 did not die; it turned into DnD online, and LOTRO.
It’s sad how many people do not know MMO history.
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2/20/09 1:29:54 PM#68
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Yes, there is. An extreme level of polish. |
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2/20/09 1:31:43 PM#69
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yes, there is. An extreme level of polish.
You say that as if they are the only ones to do so. |
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2/20/09 1:32:58 PM#70
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yes, there is. An extreme level of polish. That's like saying you took the biggest dump ever, then claiming it to be something brand new. Poo is poo no matter what the color or shine. |
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2/20/09 1:43:50 PM#71
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Before WOW...which had Charge and Intercept? Which had Rest Exp? Which had Fear or Mind Control or Sheep? Which had a death penalty where you run around as a ghost in an alternate reality of the actual game? Which had a fully customizable interface, not just mods? Which had Farsight or Waterwalking? Which had bipedal Cows or an Undead race or Jamaican Trolls? Which let you shoot off fireworks or throw snowballs? Which had potions that let you turn into NPCs? Which altered the cities during hollidays? Which had battlegrounds as advanced as AV? Which had a CTF or node control mechanic? Which let you ride Raptors or Robot Ostridges? Which let you escort robot chickens? Which let you parachute off a cliff? Which let you drive around in mobile Catapults or ride dragons and bomb people or manually aim & shoot cannons? I'm not saying for certain all of these are unique but off the top of my head I think WOW did them first in a MMO. You can kindly provide proof as to which MMOs did these before WOW to jog my memory, since theres a lot of MMOs out there. |
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2/20/09 1:57:13 PM#72
Originally posted by Josher
Before WOW...which had Charge and Intercept? Which had Rest Exp? Which had Fear or Mind Control or Sheep? Which had a death penalty where you run around as a ghost in an alternate reality of the actual game? Which had a fully customizable interface, not just mods? Which had Farsight or Waterwalking? Which had bipedal Cows or an Undead race or Jamaican Trolls? Which let you shoot off fireworks or throw snowballs? Which had potions that let you turn into NPCs? Which altered the cities during hollidays? Which had battlegrounds as advanced as AV? Which had a CTF or node control mechanic? Which let you ride Raptors or Robot Ostridges? Which let you escort robot chickens? Which let you parachute off a cliff? Which let you drive around in mobile Catapults or ride dragons and bomb people or manually aim & shoot cannons? I'm not saying for certain all of these are unique but off the top of my head I think WOW did them first in a MMO. You can kindly provide proof as to which MMOs did these before WOW to jog my memory, since theres a lot of MMOs out there. They did not. To list all the various games that had such things before is something i do not feel is worth wasting my time. Also realize, Warcraft = Warhammer. The RTS games were based off warhammer, they just failed to secure the IP, and rewrote the lore.
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2/20/09 2:33:55 PM#73
Originally posted by FolbyOrb
Who has soloed Sunwell Plateau? I soloed it with my hunter There is Strength in numbers!!! |
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2/20/09 2:34:02 PM#74
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth They did actually. But you’re not talking about what you were before, The mechanics, UI and Controls are all directly copied and tweaked from AC2.
Somehow I doubt blizzard looked to a failed and shut down mmo to get their ques on how to build a successful one.
There are some similiarities, but those same similarities exist in many other games as well. Not limited to mmos even, but I am not agruing that blizzard reinvented the wheel. They just made it better.
Yes, yes they did. And AC2 did not die; it turned into DnD online, and LOTRO.
It’s sad how many people do not know MMO history.
You act like wow did nothing new and at the same time every other game on the market is full of ground breaking unique features. Your pretense that wow is some ac2 ripoff isn't even close to the mark. The greater part of mmo history is filled with mmo knockoffs, with only a few exceptions of really diverse games. Most have been the same rehashed diku mud with a slightly different focus. The difference is that blizzard took the time to finish the game, put fun as the first priority in development and implemented so many features of other mmos into one game in a success manner. It was revolutionary in its own way. There was no need to create a whole slew of new features when the market was full of great ideas that were just poorly implemented.
I'm think I am well versed in mmo history and while what you are suggesting is slightly true (wow has a lot of common elements from many various games), it is also irrelevent. If it were relevent, we would all be sitting around talking about how many people play ac2... or how many people are playing ddo or lotro. |
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2/20/09 3:10:25 PM#75
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth They did not. To list all the various games that had such things before is something i do not feel is worth wasting my time. Also realize, Warcraft = Warhammer. The RTS games were based off warhammer, they just failed to secure the IP, and rewrote the lore.
You'd figure that a student of MMO history such as yourself would easily know where some of those features came from? Its a pretty strong statement you said, "NOTHING in WOW is unque". Since you can't even tell us all where even one of the simple features I mentioned came from, I'd assume you know a lot less than you think you do. Ahhh, so Blizzard stole everything from Warhammer the table top? You're one of those people;) We all know how that translates into WOW the MMO a compuer game... C'mon, where did a few of those features come from? I even put an easy one in there=) |
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I am also not saying they didn’t change things to suit their own needs, but there is nothing in WoW that is unique, or that they invented.
(after all these hunters are overpowered...)
