Originally posted by singsofdeath

Pretty fair review, which, of course, still cannot adress the (possible) problems of the game when it releases, but that's gonna be seen when it does release. ^^

 

My only beef with it is what miagisan already said. Generalizing epople into "casual/linear and hardcore/non-linear"  is simply not true. Lots of people love games like eve, which are far from linear and still are casual gamers and lots of "hardcore" people enjoy linear games.

 

Other than that, I suppose my main concerns will only be alleviated or proven when the game releases. Thanks for the effort. :D

Meh, Eve is a very bad example because it contains some very linear/carebear careers (industry/missioning), Eve is far from the hardcore game people think it is, lowsec and 0.0 can be harsh but empire is linear carebear heaven.

Originally posted by Sixpax

Was it just me or did that write-up sound like one excuse after another for the game's shortcomings?

o) The grapics/animations are bad but you barely notice because you're in first person mode.

o) The UI/controls are poorly done, but you get used to it.

o) The looting is cumbersome but it keeps with the spirit of the game.

Heck the entire summary section is one big excuse for their poor design skills... "The game is being developed by Aventurine, an Indy developer that has made an MMO with a fraction of the manpower, and at a fraction of the price compared to the industry leaders". In other words, it sucks but give them some slack because they're a small-time operation?

Sorry, but when you have to use terms like "solid framework" (i.e. the house is falling apart but the foundation is sound) for a game review, reds flags start going off like crazy for me.

Look, I haven't played the game enough to know whether it's good or not, personally. I'll admit that, but the fact of the matter is that Aventurine IS an Indy developer working on their first MMO. That fact alone doesn't "excuse" anything, but it does explain a lot. Expectations have got to be different when you're talking about an indy development studio. Any reviewer, official or otherwise, that doesn't take that very obvious fact into account just isn't doing his or her job properly.

I thought that paragus did a pretty good job of recounting his opinons (by the way, that's what reviews are... opinions) of the game. He was realistic in terms of the game's problems and potential for the problems to be solved.

Some players are going to want to overlook the problems that teh game has because of the very resons that he mentioned... controls are bad but you get used to it, cumbersome looting, but it fits the game... But some players aren't. That's the nature of the beast. He presented the flaws, and he presented a way that they can be overlooked.

Look, the reviewer in this case didn't tell you to run out and buy the game. He didn't tell you not to buy the game. He told you how the game was, and left it to you to make the decision. This is the mark of a good review and a solid reviewer. You read the flaws in the game, you didn't think that it was worth overlooking them for the reasons that he gave as possibilities.... You clearly made up your mind about the game based on his review. I thik his review was useful to you.

I think you may want to re-consider the attack on the reviewer and his review. you read the review and came toa  conclusion about the game. I think he did just fine by you.

I’ve said this in the past, this game SOUNDS great.  My biggest issue is I’m not going to be able to run out and buy this game based on it MIGHT be good.  I haven’t the money to do that anymore.  I’m going to wait a few months to allow the bugs to get worked out and for other reviews to pop up.  Where is that going to leave me with the ffa PvP?  Am I going to be able to enter this game 6 months after launch and have a fair chance?

I remember UO and its open ffa system.  Being able to loot anything you wanted was cool.  I also remember the community, we could gank but most didn’t.  that was back in the day of RP.  PvP today is all about making someone elses game less fun.  PvP servers are full of corpse campers and gankers.  What will the inflow of new players be like?
 

Very good review.. i completely agree with it ( since i played it also =P)

Originally posted by mmcguire2

I’ve said this in the past, this game SOUNDS great.  My biggest issue is I’m not going to be able to run out and buy this game based on it MIGHT be good.  I haven’t the money to do that anymore.  I’m going to wait a few months to allow the bugs to get worked out and for other reviews to pop up.

There is nothing wrong with sitting on the fance a bit longer to see how it all plays out.  Trust me as a guild leader, my members are very anxious about the same thing given the last 2 MMOs quickly faded out.  I actually am having a guild meeting tonight to sit everyone down and let them know what to expect if we all decide to play.  They patch pretty often so I would try to stay on top of them and see how things play out.

Originally posted by DrAtomic

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Pretty fair review, which, of course, still cannot adress the (possible) problems of the game when it releases, but that's gonna be seen when it does release. ^^

 

My only beef with it is what miagisan already said. Generalizing epople into "casual/linear and hardcore/non-linear"  is simply not true. Lots of people love games like eve, which are far from linear and still are casual gamers and lots of "hardcore" people enjoy linear games.

 

Other than that, I suppose my main concerns will only be alleviated or proven when the game releases. Thanks for the effort. :D

 

Meh, Eve is a very bad example because it contains some very linear/carebear careers (industry/missioning), Eve is far from the hardcore game people think it is, lowsec and 0.0 can be harsh but empire is linear carebear heaven.

linear my arse...how the hell is it linear when you can pick any skill you want, or do anything you want? and hi sec may be care bear, btu at least we dont have magical laser shoot towers...PEW PEW!

Originally posted by mmcguire2

I’ve said this in the past, this game SOUNDS great.  My biggest issue is I’m not going to be able to run out and buy this game based on it MIGHT be good.  I haven’t the money to do that anymore.  I’m going to wait a few months to allow the bugs to get worked out and for other reviews to pop up.  Where is that going to leave me with the ffa PvP?  Am I going to be able to enter this game 6 months after launch and have a fair chance?

 

I can't see that happening if it is a single world, I don't care how big that world is. Haven't read anything about having different "shards" at some point.

I remember UO and its open ffa system.  Being able to loot anything you wanted was cool.  I also remember the community, we could gank but most didn’t.  that was back in the day of RP.  PvP today is all about making someone elses game less fun.  PvP servers are full of corpse campers and gankers.  What will the inflow of new players be like?
 

The reason that most didn't gank was because of the community and the interdepedency between the PvP crowd and the rest of the world. I have my thoughts on the new player experience after a couple months after folks have had a chance to max out some skills. But I won't post them in this thread.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by DrAtomic

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Pretty fair review, which, of course, still cannot adress the (possible) problems of the game when it releases, but that's gonna be seen when it does release. ^^

 

My only beef with it is what miagisan already said. Generalizing epople into "casual/linear and hardcore/non-linear"  is simply not true. Lots of people love games like eve, which are far from linear and still are casual gamers and lots of "hardcore" people enjoy linear games.

 

Other than that, I suppose my main concerns will only be alleviated or proven when the game releases. Thanks for the effort. :D

 

Meh, Eve is a very bad example because it contains some very linear/carebear careers (industry/missioning), Eve is far from the hardcore game people think it is, lowsec and 0.0 can be harsh but empire is linear carebear heaven.

 

linear my arse...how the hell is it linear when you can pick any skill you want, or do anything you want? and hi sec may be care bear, btu at least we dont have magical laser shoot towers...PEW PEW!

It's funny how the "hardcore" are always spouting "carebear".

They don't realize that without these "carebears" and new players, and the areas that the developers place in their games for them to get a started, the game would never survive long enough to stay in business.

EVE has implemented a nice balance between the two. I would love to play it, but that dang learning curve just gets to me everytime I try. Old age or something...

In regards to the gankfest thing, I was actually surprised how many people seemed to respect other people of their own race.  There are people out there who will cut you down if the situation is right, I had it happen to me once.  

I saw 2 Mahirim fighting each other, and one of them had a red name.   I assumed the red guy was trying to gank the blue one so I helped the blue guy kill the red.   During the battle, I took the brunt of the damage from the red, and I accidentally hit the blue.   We both raced to loot as much as we could from the red guy and we started to part ways.... or so I thought.    I guess the other guy saw me in rogue status because I hit him, and decided he wanted my cut of the loot so he attacked and I lost since I was still hurt from the fight.    I wasn't really upset though, I thought the entire incident was pretty funny.

Originally posted by Paragus1

In regards to the gankfest thing, I was actually surprised how many people seemed to respect other people of their own race.  There are people out there who will cut you down if the situation is right, I had it happen to me once.  

I saw 2 Mahirim fighting each other, and one of them had a red name.   I assumed the red guy was trying to gank the blue one so I helped the blue guy kill the red.   During the battle, I took the brunt of the damage from the red, and I accidentally hit the blue.   We both raced to loot as much as we could from the red guy and we started to part ways.... or so I thought.    I guess the other guy saw me in rogue status because I hit him, and decided he wanted my cut of the loot so he attacked and I lost since I was still hurt from the fight.    I wasn't really upset though, I thought the entire incident was pretty funny.

Unfortunately, I feel due to human nature, that once there is significant population, that these kind of light-hearted occurances will become fewer and far between.

I may be wrong, but I can only draw upon my expeirences from playing UO from launch untill early 2008.

Anyway, thanks for the write-up.

and the funny thing is that thee supposed hardcore people dont realize is that EVE has alot more penalties, risks and loss than darkfall does. And yet, because theres a high security zone (which probably makes up 25% of the game - and is just like the starter cities in darkfall with their PEW PEW towers....) its suddenly carebear...lol....

I got nothing against fans of a game, but there is a point where it just borders on lunacy.

Originally posted by Respit

Unfortunately, I feel due to human nature, that once there is significant population, that these kind of light-hearted occurances will become fewer and far between.

 

I may be wrong, but I can only draw upon my expeirences from playing UO from launch untill early 2008.

Anyway, thanks for the write-up.

You might be right.  I also think the differenent races have their own subculture of players.   I did an article a while back about some statistics of how many people were playing what races, and other trends.  The orks in that data came off as most likely to attack their own kind.  One of my guildies saw this first hand as he is one of the few of us that are prefering them over the mahirim.   I think as the dust starts to settle, guilds will build cities and people will spread out a lot more.   In the beginning, the starter areas will be very crowded, which means there are bound to be some freaks in there.

---

Originally posted by Stradden

I think you may want to re-consider the attack on the reviewer and his review. you read the review and came toa  conclusion about the game. I think he did just fine by you.

---

Actually if that's the impression you got from my response, then my apologies as it wasn't intended to criticize him but rather the game itself although I do feel like he was intentionally downplaying some of the glaring issues.

Originally posted by arctarus

 Hi Paragus1, nice write up.

So whats the goal for players in this game? the so-call end-game, or objective? Since gear is of no value, so there wont be a need  to raid dungeons, bg to grind, crafting also have not much purpose i guess?

Any idea what do players do once they max out their skills?

Impossible to say how the endgame will play out, as it always is before a game comes out.  I didn't say gear was of no value, I said it helps, but it is not the defining factor of your characters power like other MMOs.

Take WoW just as an example.   If you have 2 warriors of the same race and strip them naked, there is little difference between them other than their talents, which is usually confined to a few viable templates.   When you add gear to the equation, one becomes godlike compared to the other because he has raid gear and the other one has blues.   In Darkfall this is not the case.    Gear does not magic transform you into some sort of Mighty Morphin Power Ranger who can one shot people.   More of the game gets left up to how you fight your battle.

Crafting has a purpose, which is a means to create weapons and armor which would other wise be hard to find on monsters, or not at all.

The entire concept of dungeons and tiers of dungeons is what I consider to be a linear gameplay element.   First you do BRD, then LBRS, then UBRS, then MC, then BWL, etc.    A lot of players like this style of gaming because they have a tangible way to measure their progress and they never have to wonder where to go next.   Darkfall is a lot more open ended in that where you go and what you do is completely up to you.

I read the Paraus1 review and was pretty impressed with the game based on the review. Just wondering and I hope no-one already asked this question and I missed it, but does melee combat just consist of two different swing styles? Is there no blocking, parry, or a dodge function. I just would like the option to stay in a stationary place and block incoming attacks as opposed to the complete chaos of running around and jumping to avoid attacks.

Originally posted by fredmercury

I read the Paraus1 review and was pretty impressed with the game based on the review. Just wondering and I hope no-one already asked this question and I missed it, but does melee combat just consist of two different swing styles? Is there no blocking, parry, or a dodge function. I just would like the option to stay in a stationary place and block incoming attacks as opposed to the complete chaos of running around and jumping to avoid attacks.

Yes there is blocking and parry. Blocking is a bit better than parry as it should be though. Shield > Weapon in damage reduction lol.

The combat isn't just about the 2 swings either. You have the over hand and the side slash, Side slash is easier to aim and the Verticle swing is to avoid hitting other nearby players. With that though there are weapon skills you can get. Power attack, Sieze and Knockback. Knockback of course knocks the opponent away from you. Sieze brings them closer to you. And Power attack does more dmg (After you skill it up).

There's also some spells that can be handy for a melee char, Mana to Stamina is an example. It takes some of your mana and converts it to stamina. Without stamina you can't fight, flee, jump or many other things.

Combat is about moving, timed blocks, stamina management, Aiming etc. So it's a bit more than just the 2 swings.

I actually forgot to mention the blocking aspect of the melee section.   Honestly there was so much ground to cover and the article was getting a bit too long.  Pretty much Gray explained it.

I'd like too get more info on the trade/crafting systems and banking. Plus player homes if they are available.

5th article in a row to make it to Massively

Originally posted by Nicrox

I'd like too get more info on the trade/crafting systems and banking. Plus player homes if they are available.

Banking is universal, meaning if you put your items in a bank, they can be retreived from any other bank in the world.   Some of the beta testers don't like this idea, but I am indifferent.  Not sure if player housing is going to be in at release.  I know there are Hamlets that can be claimed, but I think I read somewhere housing with coming after launch.   Not 100% sure on that.  Also every tree in the entire world can have an axe taken to it for harvesting wood, the same goes for rocks and plants.

Originally posted by miagisan

and the funny thing is that thee supposed hardcore people dont realize is that EVE has alot more penalties, risks and loss than darkfall does. And yet, because theres a high security zone (which probably makes up 25% of the game - and is just like the starter cities in darkfall with their PEW PEW towers....) its suddenly carebear...lol....

I got nothing against fans of a game, but there is a point where it just borders on lunacy.

I don't know who said that, but I agree that EVE has some very harsh penalties.  EVE is a badass system and I love that game.  I was there for launch, and I go back every couple months and I will keep doing that.  I just get disconnected always being in a ship.  Nothing they can help.  Ambulation = I will be in EVE 40 hours a week for 2 months before I wander off again.

I don't know who would reasonably attack EVE while promoting Darkfall.  Seems foolish to me.  EVE does have ways to never PvP though, and insurance.  Darkfall no matter what you do you will get murdered, and looted.  It is a different system, but they both are good.

No need to argue about this.  Both games are greatness.

Very good review.

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Nicrox

I'd like too get more info on the trade/crafting systems and banking. Plus player homes if they are available.

 

Banking is universal, meaning if you put your items in a bank, they can be retreived from any other bank in the world.   Some of the beta testers don't like this idea, but I am indifferent.  Not sure if player housing is going to be in at release.  I know there are Hamlets that can be claimed, but I think I read somewhere housing with coming after launch.   Not 100% sure on that.  Also every tree in the entire world can have an axe taken to it for harvesting wood, the same goes for rocks and plants.

I wish there was more indepth info into the world of Darkfalls economy. I consider it to be the glue that binds any mmo together.

Originally posted by Nicrox
 

I wish there was more indepth info into the world of Darkfalls economy. I consider it to be the glue that binds any mmo together.

I can tell you that there are no auction houses, and no plans to my knowledge to add them.

Hi Paragus, thanks for the review. I'd like to ask a couple of questions if I may.

Q1 - I'm having trouble picturing how this UI can acommodate "1,000 skills and spells". In fact, it actually sounds to me much more limited than a more traditional MMORPG. If I read you right you bind a skill or spell to your number keys for a total of 10 useable? Can your function or other keys be used as well?

Q2 - Are there any meaningful damage types/resistances in the game? For example are some armor types more resistant to fire than to water, can some characters with high willpower at times resist magic, etc.? Or is it just a straight equation for all damage (with perhaps block/dodge/parry thrown in)? Did you see any fire swords or ice arrow type items in the game?