I would like a grouping game with ZERO solo content.

For players that like to solo, this game would simply not be for you. There would be no solo content, nothing for you to do. Even crafting would require grouping.

Think of it like a multi player First Person Shooter, like Call of Duty, or Battlefield. Solo players complain sometimes that I don't have time to look for a group, I need to accomplish something. What could you accomplish on a Battlefield or Call of Duty server by yourself? Nothing. You'd just stand there with a gun and nothing to do. I'm not saying it has to be PvP, I'm just saying think of this differently than a typical MMORPG.

The object of this game is to play with other people. The object of the game is not to level up your toon and collect gear. In other words, there's no point in playing by yourself without being in a group. If you couldnt' find a group, you wouldn't play the game, because the game would BE all about grouping.

Saying you'd want to solo this game would be like saying you want to play poker by yourself. Poker is all about bluffing. You can't bluff a computer, so don't say you'd just play against a computer. Sure, you can play against a computer to learn the basics, but to really play poker you need other people.

This game would include a tutorial stage for you to learn the GUI and basics, so when you get to the online portion, you already know how to play, so other people wouldn't have to wait on you to learn the controls.

 All mobs you could kill solo give no xp, all mobs that would give you xp would require at least one other person in your group, or they would kick your ass, and you would have no chance of killing them.

All quests would require at LEAST two people. One to pull a lever while the other rushes through the door to complete the mission, and things like that.

The closest you can get to this, currently, is FFXI. Although you can still solo some, it's extremely tedius for most classes, and downright impossible for others.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I would like a grouping game with ZERO solo content.

For players that like to solo, this game would simply not be for you. There would be no solo content, nothing for you to do. Even crafting would require grouping.

Think of it like a multi player First Person Shooter, like Call of Duty, or Battlefield. Solo players complain sometimes that I don't have time to look for a group, I need to accomplish something. What could you accomplish on a Battlefield or Call of Duty server by yourself? Nothing. You'd just stand there with a gun and nothing to do. I'm not saying it has to be PvP, I'm just saying think of this differently than a typical MMORPG.

The object of this game is to play with other people. The object of the game is not to level up your toon and collect gear. In other words, there's no point in playing by yourself without being in a group. If you couldnt' find a group, you wouldn't play the game, because the game would BE all about grouping.

Saying you'd want to solo this game would be like saying you want to play poker by yourself. Poker is all about bluffing. You can't bluff a computer, so don't say you'd just play against a computer. Sure, you can play against a computer to learn the basics, but to really play poker you need other people.

This game would include a tutorial stage for you to learn the GUI and basics, so when you get to the online portion, you already know how to play, so other people wouldn't have to wait on you to learn the controls.

 All mobs you could kill solo give no xp, all mobs that would give you xp would require at least one other person in your group, or they would kick your ass, and you would have no chance of killing them.

All quests would require at LEAST two people. One to pull a lever while the other rushes through the door to complete the mission, and things like that.

what I highlighted is where you should look into.

MMORPG should be able to deliver multible playstyle's, if you want pure group based then stick to those type of games already out.

Oh and NO I aint a solo player but do like to if I want to be able to, I would want more involving group play into a MMORPG's, but I don't want a MMORPG to be only about grouping as MMORPG are about socializing and that can be done on many lvl's which doesn't always have to mean one needs to group.

Darkfall is kinda like this. If you solo you wont get far as in a FPS...

For a game like this to work you would really need some kind of match making system like in a FPS, being that incappable while solo means you can't really meet people while adventuring, it could even auto assign you to a group based on what type of character you are.  Since it is so group focused you don't want to waste time looking for a group.

theres plenty of games like this as ff11 your justa softcore noob tho who cant handle it tho probly

I agree with the OP. I am not saying lets do away with solo player MMO’s, if that’s your bag stick with it. But I think we need to move in the direction of far more grouping.

The starter areas should still be soloable though, to allow players to get some idea of their class and the game. But even here there should be some very nice item quests to tempt players into what the game is all about, grouping.
 

I would suggest Darkfall. One of the first MMORPGs in a long time were you must team up to do something.

The problem you have is with level based mmorpgs is that group based only doesn't work because you don't have constant new people joining the game to make it easy to find a group 24/7. So wat you need is a game that is setup like EVE Online or SWG where there are no levels and you can instantly play with your friends, even if they've been playing for ages before you.

A game with zero solo content would be a bit frustrating.  I'm all for group play and enjoy games that have lots of it but sometimes you want to be alone or accomplish something in a short amount of time.  Problem is a lot of development companies have limited funds to cater to all groups and have chosen to feed the soloists since they are clearly the largest demographic.  I dont' mind solo content but I do enjoy challenging group content and need more of it.  So in that regard I am with you.  But going to an extreme would not serve a game well.  It's all about balance.

For it  even to stand a chance the game has to be designed where your not at the mercy of needing certain classes to do the group content. Or at least have npc hirelings  available to round out the group. And also different  size group content..   To 2 to 3 man quests to your bigger grouped quest.  That will be only way the game would have a chance at success in todays MMO games.

Who wants to pay  for a retail box and a monthly fee so they can log on and sit in the LFG area for an hour or more and hope they can get a group. Im not speakingof the people that have a close knit group of friends that know that will be there but the person who doesnt have that available (in the start anyway).

Group play can be alot of fun, but on the opposite of the spectrum, there is no fun from taking an hour or so to get a group together, get them all to the area thats needed, start the quest, and then poof your healer or tank has to go because of this or that. And here ya go, starting the process of finding a group again.

Yeha i guess you should jon darkfall, because you will Have to group up unless you wants to get robbed and analy raped .

Too bad the game is just Dark and light V2.0

Well we would all like different things. 

I would like a MMORPG to be a world where I can do many different things.  If I just want to be a farmer, a hunter, or a fisher I can do that.  If I want to group with a few people I can do that.  If I want to join an army and do army like things I can do that.  If I want to be a spy and go behind enemy lines I can do that.  Basically I don't think an MMO should be based on weather you have to group or not.  It should be based on creating word with a variety of different things for people to do.

I would absolutely 100% hate the game the OP is describing.

For me, MMO's are about social grouping and when we stray into the realms of forced grouping then we cross a line that should not be crossed.

Being utterly reliant on other players to do anything is just too way restrictive and binding for me. I'd hate to feel that if I decide not to play tonight then I'm ruining other peoples fun. It's the primary reason that I quit DDO about a week after launch, it just didn't suit my playstyle.

But still, each to their own .. I wouldn't play the game but I imagine there are others like the OP who would; however I'd have to ask the question: would there be enough of a potential market for it? .. I believe that DDO added solo content to attempt to stop the flood of players leaving their game because the forced grouping was so unpopular.

Originally posted by Pathis

A game with zero solo content would be a bit frustrating.  I'm all for group play and enjoy games that have lots of it but sometimes you want to be alone or accomplish something in a short amount of time.  Problem is a lot of development companies have limited funds to cater to all groups and have chosen to feed the soloists since they are clearly the largest demographic.  I dont' mind solo content but I do enjoy challenging group content and need more of it.  So in that regard I am with you.  But going to an extreme would not serve a game well.  It's all about balance.

 As I mentioned in the Original Post, there is nothing to accomplish. Grouping is the game, although Pathis is still worried about being able to solo to accomplish something. Try thinking of a game of frisbee. Either you have some one to play frisbee with, or you don't. There's nothing to accomplish by throwing the frisbee to yourself. The game is about grouping with other people, not about collecting gear or gaining xp.

Some mentioned Darkfall. Those people did not understand my original post in the least. Darkfall has zero to offer in this regard. The grouping in the game I'm describing is 90% about PvE, not PvP. This game would not work with FFA PvP, IMO. Realm v Realm yes.

Skills, as mentioned, would be better than levels. You would definitely make it so people were not so separated by levels, maybe add the Mentor feature like City of Heroes. Also, no certain class would be needed, like you would not HAVE to have a healer or a Tank. Just at least ONE other person grouped with you to do anything, and the more in the group, the more you can do.

An auto grouping feature would definitely be helpful. You could use it or not.

It's not abotu "forced grouping". It's not about trying to make you socialize in any way. The game is grouping. It's like saying people playing Frisbee are forced to group. If you don't have another person, you don't play frisbee. If you play Frisbee, no one is forceing you to do so.\

Again, try to think about Frisbee. No one says they are utterly reliant on other people to play Frisbee. They get together with other people and throw the Frisbee to each other. If there are no people to play Frisbee with, they don't complain that there's no single player Frisbee game.

Infantry required grouping for everything.  It's not an MMORPG, though. 

Originally posted by Quizzical

Infantry required grouping for everything.  It's not an MMORPG, though. 

Is infantry a game? Do people play it for fun and to relax?

A few questions for thought:

How do groups form besides auto grouping like another posted suggested?

What happens if the members of the group want to do different things? One wants to do a dungeon, another wants to craft? Like you said you need to group to craft.

What happens to the poor guy/girl that can't find a group when they log on? All groups are full. For example say there are 1000 people and it is 5 man groups. And there are 200 groups running around, Now another player logs on for 1001. What happens to that player? (Numbers for example only)

Why are we grouping? Just cause the content is harder? What kind of reward do the players get from grouping all the time? You said not for xp or gear, so what is there for the players? I think everyone needs/wants a reason to do something, especiailly with others.

What happens if the members of the group don't like each other and they split, and no other groups available?

These questions  can cause real problems for the type of game that the op is asking for.

I love to group myself. But I think it is safe to say that it would not go over well. You would end up with a small player base, which, would make it harder to find groups. Even with an Auto Group setting. there will be an odd person out most of the time. Then that player will get bored and quit.

Players have a variety of things they like in an mmorpg, whether it is grouping. soloing to challenge their skills. crafting. or just exploring and finding a nice setting to gaze at.

Socializing in a mmorpg does not mean grouping. You can sociallize by being a merchant selling items, tradesman to make items for others. Etc. Now grouping is fun and should be encouraged, but not forced or the only way to play. At least in my opinion.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Pathis

A game with zero solo content would be a bit frustrating.  I'm all for group play and enjoy games that have lots of it but sometimes you want to be alone or accomplish something in a short amount of time.  Problem is a lot of development companies have limited funds to cater to all groups and have chosen to feed the soloists since they are clearly the largest demographic.  I dont' mind solo content but I do enjoy challenging group content and need more of it.  So in that regard I am with you.  But going to an extreme would not serve a game well.  It's all about balance.

 

 As I mentioned in the Original Post, there is nothing to accomplish. Grouping is the game, although Pathis is still worried about being able to solo to accomplish something. Try thinking of a game of frisbee. Either you have some one to play frisbee with, or you don't. There's nothing to accomplish by throwing the frisbee to yourself. The game is about grouping with other people, not about collecting gear or gaining xp.

Some mentioned Darkfall. Those people did not understand my original post in the least. Darkfall has zero to offer in this regard. The grouping in the game I'm describing is 90% about PvE, not PvP. This game would not work with FFA PvP, IMO. Realm v Realm yes.

Skills, as mentioned, would be better than levels. You would definitely make it so people were not so separated by levels, maybe add the Mentor feature like City of Heroes. Also, no certain class would be needed, like you would not HAVE to have a healer or a Tank. Just at least ONE other person grouped with you to do anything, and the more in the group, the more you can do.

An auto grouping feature would definitely be helpful. You could use it or not.

It's not abotu "forced grouping". It's not about trying to make you socialize in any way. The game is grouping. It's like saying people playing Frisbee are forced to group. If you don't have another person, you don't play frisbee. If you play Frisbee, no one is forceing you to do so.\

Again, try to think about Frisbee. No one says they are utterly reliant on other people to play Frisbee. They get together with other people and throw the Frisbee to each other. If there are no people to play Frisbee with, they don't complain that there's no single player Frisbee game.

Somehow you equated being alone with only means to accomplish things which is not what I said. 

The many years I have been playing MMOs I have been grouped the majority of the time.  I enjoy complex raids, I enjoy solid group content, and I've run my fair share of guilds/kins.  I like social interaction and for the most part I have been blessed with the folks I've met online.  Socially equate this to going out with ones friends and having a good time. 

But sometimes you don't want to coordinate a group just to go out on a whim, or watch a movie, or even read a book.  Equate this in an MMO as doing a quest, or gathering mats, or simply exploring the game world.

So yes grouping is fun, but being alone has it's perks too.

Originally posted by Pathis

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Pathis

A game with zero solo content would be a bit frustrating.  I'm all for group play and enjoy games that have lots of it but sometimes you want to be alone or accomplish something in a short amount of time.  Problem is a lot of development companies have limited funds to cater to all groups and have chosen to feed the soloists since they are clearly the largest demographic.  I dont' mind solo content but I do enjoy challenging group content and need more of it.  So in that regard I am with you.  But going to an extreme would not serve a game well.  It's all about balance.

 

 As I mentioned in the Original Post, there is nothing to accomplish. Grouping is the game, although Pathis is still worried about being able to solo to accomplish something. Try thinking of a game of frisbee. Either you have some one to play frisbee with, or you don't. There's nothing to accomplish by throwing the frisbee to yourself. The game is about grouping with other people, not about collecting gear or gaining xp.

Some mentioned Darkfall. Those people did not understand my original post in the least. Darkfall has zero to offer in this regard. The grouping in the game I'm describing is 90% about PvE, not PvP. This game would not work with FFA PvP, IMO. Realm v Realm yes.

Skills, as mentioned, would be better than levels. You would definitely make it so people were not so separated by levels, maybe add the Mentor feature like City of Heroes. Also, no certain class would be needed, like you would not HAVE to have a healer or a Tank. Just at least ONE other person grouped with you to do anything, and the more in the group, the more you can do.

An auto grouping feature would definitely be helpful. You could use it or not.

It's not abotu "forced grouping". It's not about trying to make you socialize in any way. The game is grouping. It's like saying people playing Frisbee are forced to group. If you don't have another person, you don't play frisbee. If you play Frisbee, no one is forceing you to do so.\

Again, try to think about Frisbee. No one says they are utterly reliant on other people to play Frisbee. They get together with other people and throw the Frisbee to each other. If there are no people to play Frisbee with, they don't complain that there's no single player Frisbee game.

 

Somehow you equated being alone with only means to accomplish things which is not what I said. 

The many years I have been playing MMOs I have been grouped the majority of the time.  I enjoy complex raids, I enjoy solid group content, and I've run my fair share of guilds/kins.  I like social interaction and for the most part I have been blessed with the folks I've met online.  Socially equate this to going out with ones friends and having a good time. 

But sometimes you don't want to coordinate a group just to go out on a whim, or watch a movie, or even read a book.  Equate this in an MMO as doing a quest, or gathering mats, or simply exploring the game world.

So yes grouping is fun, but being alone has it's perks too.

 

I agree completely. There's nothign wrong with games that include solo content, or games that are solo friendly.

This would be something different.

The entire nature of the game would be changed because of the way grouping is required.

Adding any solo content to this game would simply destroy the entire game. If you wanted solo content, you'd have to log off and play something else.

If there was a market for it... why not.

If they made a game that said:

You will group or do nothing.

If you can't find a group you will do nothing

etc

and they developed and supported and especially advertised it for what it was.

I mean playing a game is optional.

If you think a game is to solo friendly don't play... to group dependant .. don't play.

Fairly simple.

People would rather tear each other up about having a difference of opinion.

As opposed to:

1) trying to convince a developer to make what they want

2) convincing a developer there is a market for what they want.

3) not realizing that game doesn't exist becuase almost no one would play it.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I would like a grouping game with ZERO solo content.

For players that like to solo, this game would simply not be for you. There would be no solo content, nothing for you to do. Even crafting would require grouping.

Think of it like a multi player First Person Shooter, like Call of Duty, or Battlefield. Solo players complain sometimes that I don't have time to look for a group, I need to accomplish something. What could you accomplish on a Battlefield or Call of Duty server by yourself? Nothing. You'd just stand there with a gun and nothing to do. I'm not saying it has to be PvP, I'm just saying think of this differently than a typical MMORPG.

The object of this game is to play with other people. The object of the game is not to level up your toon and collect gear. In other words, there's no point in playing by yourself without being in a group. If you couldnt' find a group, you wouldn't play the game, because the game would BE all about grouping.

Saying you'd want to solo this game would be like saying you want to play poker by yourself. Poker is all about bluffing. You can't bluff a computer, so don't say you'd just play against a computer. Sure, you can play against a computer to learn the basics, but to really play poker you need other people.

This game would include a tutorial stage for you to learn the GUI and basics, so when you get to the online portion, you already know how to play, so other people wouldn't have to wait on you to learn the controls.

 All mobs you could kill solo give no xp, all mobs that would give you xp would require at least one other person in your group, or they would kick your ass, and you would have no chance of killing them.

All quests would require at LEAST two people. One to pull a lever while the other rushes through the door to complete the mission, and things like that.

You get my vote. It would be like hunting voritors on SWG back in the old days. You did it with a group or you got creamed. Some of the best times I ever had.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I would like a grouping game with ZERO solo content.

For players that like to solo, this game would simply not be for you. There would be no solo content, nothing for you to do. Even crafting would require grouping.

Think of it like a multi player First Person Shooter, like Call of Duty, or Battlefield. Solo players complain sometimes that I don't have time to look for a group, I need to accomplish something. What could you accomplish on a Battlefield or Call of Duty server by yourself? Nothing. You'd just stand there with a gun and nothing to do. I'm not saying it has to be PvP, I'm just saying think of this differently than a typical MMORPG.

The object of this game is to play with other people. The object of the game is not to level up your toon and collect gear. In other words, there's no point in playing by yourself without being in a group. If you couldnt' find a group, you wouldn't play the game, because the game would BE all about grouping.

Saying you'd want to solo this game would be like saying you want to play poker by yourself. Poker is all about bluffing. You can't bluff a computer, so don't say you'd just play against a computer. Sure, you can play against a computer to learn the basics, but to really play poker you need other people.

This game would include a tutorial stage for you to learn the GUI and basics, so when you get to the online portion, you already know how to play, so other people wouldn't have to wait on you to learn the controls.

 All mobs you could kill solo give no xp, all mobs that would give you xp would require at least one other person in your group, or they would kick your ass, and you would have no chance of killing them.

All quests would require at LEAST two people. One to pull a lever while the other rushes through the door to complete the mission, and things like that.

I am all for grouping,but dumb developers do NOT understand the problems that follow an all grouping game.

First of all,you would not have any friends,because unless you all are on the same time line,and want to follow the same game play,then you will be forced to look for new players all the time,everyday.

Then the game would need a LOT of mechanics so that players could find and group with other players that want to do the exact same thing as you do on that particular day.The odds of it all coming together are VERY LOW.Then you have to consider that some days you do not have the time,so maybe only 1/2 hours,will that be enough time to get a group to follow your wants/needs ?i highly doubt it.

I think the problem is that a developer cannot see the big picture,but look at it from one persons view,like maybe the guy in charge has a group of 30 fellow employees at Square Enix that will all group together all the time,not every person has that luxury.A smart developer has to envision his game to cater to many people,it is not about niche ideas,because i doubt there is developers that have money to throw around for their own personal playground,and yet they tend to think in that matter.

Since the economy all over the world is struggling right now,we are even less likely to see a large scale complete game,the cost and risk is too overwhelming.Instead we will be gettting more of these games that look thrown together quickly and have very little content.A developer is not about to decide,we can make a good grouping game and it will sell,we will not see another FFXI,unless Square Enix brings it to us,even then i have seen them make several changes to make gaming easier for non grouping,so i would expect their next effort to be a little less harsh towards forced grouping.

No other developer has shown any indication of surpassing FFXI as the group game master.FFXI also has the most content of any game,so developers out there are just giving people WEAK efforts and surprisingly they pay to play these efforts.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Quizzical

Infantry required grouping for everything.  It's not an MMORPG, though. 

 

Is infantry a game? Do people play it for fun and to relax?

Pretty much.

http://www.station.sony.com/casualProduct.vm?Id=039

Originally posted by starman999

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I would like a grouping game with ZERO solo content.

For players that like to solo, this game would simply not be for you. There would be no solo content, nothing for you to do. Even crafting would require grouping.

Think of it like a multi player First Person Shooter, like Call of Duty, or Battlefield. Solo players complain sometimes that I don't have time to look for a group, I need to accomplish something. What could you accomplish on a Battlefield or Call of Duty server by yourself? Nothing. You'd just stand there with a gun and nothing to do. I'm not saying it has to be PvP, I'm just saying think of this differently than a typical MMORPG.

The object of this game is to play with other people. The object of the game is not to level up your toon and collect gear. In other words, there's no point in playing by yourself without being in a group. If you couldnt' find a group, you wouldn't play the game, because the game would BE all about grouping.

Saying you'd want to solo this game would be like saying you want to play poker by yourself. Poker is all about bluffing. You can't bluff a computer, so don't say you'd just play against a computer. Sure, you can play against a computer to learn the basics, but to really play poker you need other people.

This game would include a tutorial stage for you to learn the GUI and basics, so when you get to the online portion, you already know how to play, so other people wouldn't have to wait on you to learn the controls.

 All mobs you could kill solo give no xp, all mobs that would give you xp would require at least one other person in your group, or they would kick your ass, and you would have no chance of killing them.

All quests would require at LEAST two people. One to pull a lever while the other rushes through the door to complete the mission, and things like that.

 

You get my vote. It would be like hunting voritors on SWG back in the old days. You did it with a group or you got creamed. Some of the best times I ever had.

 

 

That would be a perfect example. You got a group together to hunt voritors, or you didn't hunt voritors. This entire game would be like that, right from the very beginning.

This is the most fun part of the game for me, so I'd like a game that consists entirely of the most fun part.

I get close to zero enjoyment from doing a quest solo in an MMORPG, or grinding solo in an MMORPG. I don't feel I'm accomplishing anything when I do that, because I logged on to have fun. That's the thing I want to accomplish, and those things are not fun, for me.