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I didn't say I did not want to be a hero - I just don't want to be an indestructible hero. How about the jedi in TOR being about as strong as the jedi in the Clone Wars movie (Star Wars 2)? Those jedi were definitely killable - even the main characters, the master jedi, could be beaten. That seems about the right level to me.
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Originally posted by Capn23
That makes absolutely no sense. This is the plain and simple version. You post about what you like and some people post about what they dont like. There is no double standard based on any part of the fence. You took offense to "You know...negative comments wouldn't be so bad if the people making them didn't post them in every single thread as much as possible." The person that posted that, was fishing for something.... And you bit. Thats all.
No...I wasn't fishing for anything. I was just stating that repetitive negative comments get old. Sometimes I think certain people on these boards just go around and say this kind of crap to troll. Hey...the same thing goes for over-zealous fanboys. They are annoying as shit.
That's just real Star Wars fans in general. They are easily excitable. I remember the same thing happened when they announced Star Wars Galaxies, SOE’s forums topped out at over 400,000 members before the game launched. Most never played or left because they thought it sucked once it went into Beta. I think you are just seeing the hope for TOR from these same old fans of Star Wars, the same ones that were disappointed by SWG. Nothing to get angry about. As for the trolls, most are from other games or ex-swg players who have a grudge against the whole IP, and since this game is being so hyped its a natural target. I was mad at SOE at one time myself, not at the IP. Though I'm not a fan of every aspect of it, I do like KOTOR and I expect this game at least won't be as dull as other games can be at times.
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Proximo521
 Novice Member
Joined: 8/14/08
'Aren't you playing the Sorcerer's Apprentice?' 'No.' Professor Kevin Warwick |
Originally posted by tillamook
That makes absolutely no sense. This is the plain and simple version. You post about what you like and some people post about what they dont like. There is no double standard based on any part of the fence. You took offense to "You know...negative comments wouldn't be so bad if the people making them didn't post them in every single thread as much as possible." The person that posted that, was fishing for something.... And you bit. Thats all.
No...I wasn't fishing for anything. I was just stating that repetitive negative comments get old. Sometimes I think certain people on these boards just go around and say this kind of crap to troll. Hey...the same thing goes for over-zealous fanboys. They are annoying as shit.
That's just real Star Wars fans in general. They are easily excitable. I remember the same thing happened when they announced Star Wars Galaxies, SOE’s forums topped out at over 400,000 members before the game launched. Most never played or left because they thought it sucked once it went into Beta. I think you are just seeing the hope for TOR from these same old fans of Star Wars, the same ones that were disappointed by SWG. Nothing to get angry about. As for the trolls, most are from other games or ex-swg players who have a grudge against the whole IP, and since this game is being so hyped its a natural target. I was mad at SOE at one time myself, not at the IP. Though I'm not a fan of every aspect of it, I do like KOTOR and I expect this game at least won't be as dull as other games can be at times.
Thanks for putting it delicately Tillamook. Also, Cap23 you are right, you were stating something that you noticed.
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BOO.... who cares? Jedi and sith are passe. When are they going to announce the mandalorians?
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You can't have Mandalorians as a race because they are a conglomerate of races and you can't have them as a class either because Mandalorians can not be pidgeon holed like that. It would just be like having a class called Republican representing the whole Republic. |
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Originally posted by mcharj11
I disagree. I believe we will see some sort of choice that will allow mandalorians to either be a race, class or faction. Time will tell.
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Originally posted by starman999
I disagree. I believe we will see some sort of choice that will allow mandalorians to either be a race, class or faction. Time will tell.
They have already said though that the 4 factions are Sith Empire/Republic and Light/Dark sides, and like i said Mandalorians can't be included as a race as they are a conglomerate (group) of races like the Covenant in Halo. Within Mandalorian military/society you have mercenaries, bounty hunters, soldiers (marksmen, demolishans, assassins, scouts, pilots, generals ect ect) you can't represent that by having a class called Mandalorian, it would be like a game having British, French, American ect as a class. If we do see some sort of faction outside those four you can bet your life on it being the criminal underworld, like in the StarWars Empire at War expansion Froces of Corruption. |
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Originally posted by mcharj11
They have already said though that the 4 factions are Sith Empire/Republic and Light/Dark sides, and like i said Mandalorians can't be included as a race as they are a conglomerate (group) of races like the Covenant in Halo. Within Mandalorian military/society you have mercenaries, bounty hunters, soldiers (marksmen, demolishans, assassins, scouts, pilots, generals ect ect) you can't represent that by having a class called Mandalorian, it would be like a game having British, French, American ect as a class. If we do see some sort of faction outside those four you can bet your life on it being the criminal underworld, like in the StarWars Empire at War expansion Froces of Corruption.
If they handle it kinda like they did in TOR, where you have general skills as well as traits you could make Mandalorian represented as a class. Generally speaking, and you stated this yourself, they are a society of warriors. At the core of every Mandalorian is a soldier. Given the fact that you could have hacking skills and other such things as general skills and then have class traits you could easily make it so their are some choices for a player to make. However, at the core of the class you would have a soldier, just a versitale one in terms of class skills. Remember, in Kotor even a Jedi could be demolitions expert/ master hacker. That was just the nature of character building in the game. |
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Originally posted by DrChicken
I would guess given the timeline they will not run into the same annoying Jedi proliferation we saw in Galaxies after the first year or two. I think you are correct that lightsabers will definately be the class of choice for most at the beginning. Maybe that will lessen as some players become more curious. Who knows. Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom. Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR. |
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If they were to do it like that the best way would be with a class called Mandalorian Mercenary, becuase in this time period that is what most Mandalorians work as. After the WAR the Republic pretty much dismantled their empire and disamred them, the clans are scattered across the galaxy. Anyway as a Mercenary that gives you an excuse to be able to specialise in anything really. This would be a concern for represenation though as there are other warrior societies equal to and more brutal than the Mandalorians. There were two mentioned in The Sith Lords, one was the Echani, can't remember the other but they continue to hack apart the bodies of their enemies even after they are dead. |
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Yeah but the Echani are an actual race and while the Sith species won't be represented (what with being wiped out long ago and all) there will be Sith in the game. The difference though is the Echani and even the Sith were a singular race where as the mandalorians are a group of races. I would love to see the Echani in game along with a melee combat specialist class that they could really excel in. As for calling them Mandalorian Mercenaries, for simplification sake they would probably just call them Mandalorians. Especially considering that just about all the Mandalorians at this time are mercs anyway. The greater depth of the Mandalorians can easily be covered in their class storyline, learning who, and what the mandalorians truely are as well as why the republic fear you. |
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TookyG
 Warhammer Online Correspondent
Joined: 4/19/04
"...you mean three philippino women." |
Originally posted by AlienShirt
I am afraid people are going to be more let down by TOR then they were by SWG.
I think that's a safe assessment if for no other reason than there are far more people are playing MMOs today than they were in June of 2003. It's also a safe assessment because expectations for MMOs have gotten too high, particularly for MMOs based on beloved franchises such as Star Wars and Star Trek. |
Originally posted by TookyG
I think that's a safe assessment if for no other reason than there are far more people are playing MMOs today than they were in June of 2003. It's also a safe assessment because expectations for MMOs have gotten too high, particularly for MMOs based on beloved franchises such as Star Wars and Star Trek.
I respectfully disagree... MMOs/MMOFPS/MMORTS/Multiplayers are definately mainstream of gaming today and numbers are rising as broadband is taking over the world... TOR has it all...great IP...great developer with great track record especially in RPG genre and Star Wars universe/Sci-Fi...years of some succesful MMO-s out there to learn from...story... Now i have tried most of the F2P MMOs and quite a few P2P and while story is not my primary focus one can certainly feel the lack of it later on in the game especially ones expansions come out...thus the term burn out Somewhat dynamic charachter/gear progression with ability for growth and good PvP options as well as good PVE...those are my personal priorities and if it gets wraped up in a good story who can resist it... Nothing special you see and i believe most people just want a stable game they can learn fast enough and some nice additions to make them stay...nothing revolutionary...story is not a revolution its just something MMO developers chose to neglect mind you not all of them but still not in the way single player RPG fealt... This is i believe what Bioware is trying to achieve and they get my full attention to see it... in the end the succes of TOR will come in numbers of players who will stay on after the launch and the abbility of the game to attract more than it looses over the course of time... |
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Originally posted by latinus
I think that's a safe assessment if for no other reason than there are far more people are playing MMOs today than they were in June of 2003. It's also a safe assessment because expectations for MMOs have gotten too high, particularly for MMOs based on beloved franchises such as Star Wars and Star Trek.
I respectfully disagree... MMOs/MMOFPS/MMORTS/Multiplayers are definately mainstream of gaming today and numbers are rising as broadband is taking over the world... TOR has it all...great IP...great developer with great track record especially in RPG genre and Star Wars universe/Sci-Fi...years of some succesful MMO-s out there to learn from...story... Now i have tried most of the F2P MMOs and quite a few P2P and while story is not my primary focus one can certainly feel the lack of it later on in the game especially ones expansions come out...thus the term burn out Somewhat dynamic charachter/gear progression with ability for growth and good PvP options as well as good PVE...those are my personal priorities and if it gets wraped up in a good story who can resist it... Nothing special you see and i believe most people just want a stable game they can learn fast enough and some nice additions to make them stay...nothing revolutionary...story is not a revolution its just something MMO developers chose to neglect mind you not all of them but still not in the way single player RPG fealt... This is i believe what Bioware is trying to achieve and they get my full attention to see it... in the end the succes of TOR will come in numbers of players who will stay on after the launch and the abbility of the game to attract more than it looses over the course of time...
Its your opinion and I'll respect that .. You put some nice general things in there that one would have to agree with. Such as "success will come in number who stay after launch and the ability to attract more subscribers after launch". That's true of any MMO... Your core idea of the "nothing special" I really don't agree with entirely. Learning speed to me isn't an issue... its the "draw". Either a game draws you in or it doesn't. Once upon a time you felt like you accomplished something in a game.. or were at least progressing. For the most part this is no longer true. Far to much spam to explain why (if you somehow don't know). There is also a certain idea... Most MMO's were just that. So the people who found them and played them werre an audience. Star Wars was mostly successful as a movie and book franchise. The fact that in 2003-4 (most of 2004 anyway) it was second only to EQ1 in the western market was something (SWG that is). WoW was based on a computer game franchise (warcraft). I'm not sure it should come as a suprise that the fanbase more easily follow the progression to MMO. In fact if WoW had only had 250,000 to 300,000 subscribers then SWG would have been a great success. That's why I don't like looking back... I won't be suprised if ToR is very popular with players. I also won't be suprised if EA isn't happy with the numbers after they spent 860 MILLION buying BioWare hoping for the next WoW... Being able to choose the skills you want to use, offers much less variety than pre-made class based systems. -Future Game Developer |
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Originally posted by Writh
The Sith species hasn't entirely died out yet in this timeline, they were exiled to deep space but have interbred with other races to the point that there are very few pure blood Sith left. There are a lot of people in the Sith Empire that have Sith blood in them though. |
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Well it's clear they're using the companion characters to help with the balance issues surrounding force characters. Maybe non-force characters get more companions. If non force characters can hire out an army against a force character it would be cool to watch and possible help balance out the pvp aspects some. You have enough companions to fight a single jedi with his companion that's already pissed off at him I'm sure you'll make him back off. |
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I doubt that companions will be used in PvP/RvR, they are there for story and for players that don't want to group with other players. And i'm sure in a recent interview they said that you will only be able to have 1 companion with you at any one time, the rest will stay in your ship/base like in the KoTOR games. |
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The only way they can do the "noone will have the same quests, every class experience will be different" is if it's just like I initially feared. Welcome to their version of the first 20 levels of AoC, only now it'll be all the way through to the end. I'm sorry, this does not sound like an mmo the more I hear about it. It sounds more like KotOR 3 with multiplayer mode tacked on. |
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Originally posted by Zorvan
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Originally posted by tillamook
Its a story driven game has been made clear. Most of AoC on Tortarge was a story driven game. That's why you are going to see comparisons like this and they are accurate. The inaccurate part is to act like this is definitely good or bad. Its going to be a subjective thing to the user aka subscriber. It sounds like they will have a more varied version of tortage is the difference and it will last longer than 20 levels. I personally thought it sounded like a lot of people liked the first 20 levels of AoC... some probably didn't like it as well. However, the transition from what Tortage was like to the rest of the game was hard for many to deal with. Anyway I don't think you need to have a knee jerk reaction to someone saying it sounds like Tortage. Because it does... This is just the MMO example of what they seem to be talking about. Its a fairly common thing in single player RPG"s (even ones made by BioWare). /shrug
Being able to choose the skills you want to use, offers much less variety than pre-made class based systems. -Future Game Developer |
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Souldrainer
Novice Member
Joined: 5/21/06
Beware the cult of purity |
Tortage was NOT story driven. To say that is to imply options and story changes. Walking up to an npc and pressing the number "1" until he shuts the FU =/= story. Making decisions that change the path of the game as you go = story. Story driven games: Fallout Series Baldur's Gate I and II Jade Empire Mass Effect KOTOR I and II This is why the Final Fantasy games fail. In fact, I never really hated FF until after I played Baldur's Gate and it blew my mind. Making choices that affect the outcome is a key element to Bioware's design. That's a huge detail that you are missing when you try to compare TOR to Tortage. The latter is a joke. Hell, just play through Mass Effect twice and choose different dialogue both times. This is not Failcom we're talking about. This is Bioware.
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Originally posted by Souldrainer Explaining Story Driven MMO to some people is as hard, since there are no good comparisons in MMOs. I’ve been trying to explain how the Hero engine can stream zone loads, making it possible for atmospheric flight, which we may or may not see in TOR. The only comparison they can come up with is the elevators in ME. If it’s something new, they just can’t visualize how it might work. TOR may not be exactly like SWG, but if it’s like KOTOR than I’ll be happy enough since I liked that game. KOTOR had some great mini games; I assume TOR will as well. SWG was essentially a game made up of mini games (Raph Koster said this) Another thing that seems hard for people to get over is the fear some seem to have that it’s a solo game. There will be plenty of things to do with others I imagine; we just don’t know what that might be yet. I assume we will have our solo stories, as well as group events and stories. They said they wanted a game for all play styles, the soloer, the guildy (a person who only goes out with his guild) and the grouper (the person who likes to group to help strangers, meet new people ect). So yeah, it will have solo play and group play. Precu SWG was mostly a solo game, I went from noob to master BH twice solo, played thru various theme parks solo, unlocked Jedi solo, ran thru warren, hunted all over Dathomir. The only time I grouped was for things like DWB, vettes, or some grand hunting expedition. The CU brought group play, but by force almost. You leveled faster in groups. The NGE was the first system SWG had for group play by making mobs more difficult, and locking encounters to group play only.
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The game is not even in beta yet, how can you possibly say it's going to be exactly like another game? That makes absolutely no sense and stop posting negative comments about games that you can't possibly know anything about.
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Originally posted by Abrahmm
Exactly. So once again I'll ask, why is it ok for you to post positive comments over and over but people with negative comments don't have that same right? Double standard based on the person's side of the fence isn't right no matter what you think. Because, most of us who played KOTOR and other BioWare games enjoyed them. I can't really say anything bad about how TOR will play until I actually get to play it, like with all BioWare games. Which is more than I can say about other games on the market. BioWare seems to have better ethics to building their games. Where most studios tend to try and push stuff out in sequence, never innovating, rarely evolving the story and just giving people the same old same old with the attitude of “just deal with it” if you hate it, BioWare seems to want to build a game that is fun every time for the people who enjoyed the first. They want a game with stuff for all play styles in TOR, and they know what sucks in MMOs for most people, the fed-ex missions we all love to hate. Really I have nothing bad to say about BioWare and their games, well except for the off-topic section of their company forums (not the TOR area). I mean I don’t like every game they make, some just aren’t for me, but I liked KOTOR and if they put as much work into the story in TOR as they did in KOTOR, I assume I’ll enjoy myself enough to get by. For one they seem to have more love for Star Wars lore than SOE ever has or ever will. Something else you may not know is that during the production of SWG, Lucas Film was tight lipped on prequel stuff and barely allowed to see any of it because they were in the middle of EP1 production. Raph said it was hilarious how tight they were about it, to the point were SOE had to “guess” on a lot of the lore. Lucas Arts is now under different management these days. I have a feeling you are gonna have to overlook what you’ve seen in other MMOs when it comes to TOR. Just pretend like this is your first Star Wars MMO, you’ve never played SWG, and for the first the first time you are actually dealing with someone who cares about what canon is in the era the game is set in. Look for your long lost friends; they will most likely end up there. Something I said 2 years ago myself is that I wanted a new Star Wars MMO. We weren’t getting a roll back and the emu was not going far very fast and now it’s exactly as I predicted it would be at this point. Consider this your chance to start all over again with something new. You may not like the graphics entirely, but gameplay (should) > graphics. In every game I’ve picked up I’ve never based my decision on graphics alone. It just doesn’t detract from me wanting to play a game at all. If it mattered I would be playing Xbox360 games exclusively instead.
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unless i see it on the official website, I don't believe it. There's something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be, desensitized to everything, what became of subtlety? |
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