Whaddya think, are there any such games now?  that have moved from the realm of "Epic Fail at Launch" into the realm of "Hey, this game is much improved now, and enjoyable".

name your game and name your reasons.

and furthermore, is it truly possible for a MMO in this day and time, to dig itself out of the hole of Epic Fail and climb back to respectability?

There is only really one MMO that I can remember that truly recovered from an Epic Fail and flourished, and that was Anarchy Online. but that was a LONG time ago.

thoughts?

Vanguard, because I alway enjoy a game with higher complexity and originality.  And yes, the launch was absolutely horrible.

Vanguard

Was so full of holes at launch -- you couldn't float this ship in space.

A lot of the graphical issues have been fixed making the game run more stable with improved frame rates.

Anarchy Online

Horrid server stability when launched. It was a miracle if the servers were up for longer than 30 minutes.

Funcom was able to pull this around to make one of the most involved MMOs of its time. Fixing server stability and bugs amass made it much more bearable and incredibly fun to play. I still love number crunching implants and buffs to get that better armor on.

None.

They failed down to game design and not petty bugs. I mean yeh crashes and lag and bugs and balance are all annoying but if the core design is good then you'd still play it and hope they fix the bugs.

Vanguard didn't fail cause of bugs and performance like everyone said. The game still has ugly graphics and character models and poor animations and spell effects that put everyone off. It still has bad lore and poor quest content and the world is still a huge barren wasteland. The game is just a generic bore.

LOTRO failed because the character models look retarded and so does the armour. The Animations are poor and the combat just isn't fun because it has this weird lag from qhen u push the button till it does it on the screen. The UI is ugly and theres only a handful of crap races and the classes are boring. You can't play as the other side unless you do monster play and the PVP is shit.

Age of conan is zoned to fuck and people don't enjoy hitting a loading screen every 30 seconds. People don't also enjoy having to run through that single player like game in a mmorpg when they want to be playing with other people.

Games that interest the mass playerbase are instantly popular but theres no mmorpg out there that has the appeal like WoW does to gamers. Sure the hardcore mmorpg player will play these mmorpgs but thats because they have no standards and havn't played a Half-life or gears of war before.

The only two mmorpgs that look to be big in the future are ToR and Blizzard's next mmorpg and thats because they are made with good developers with big budgets.

 I don't think I'd put LOTRO in the "fail" category.

not WoW numbers doesn't automatically mean Fail. LOTRO is doing quite well for itself.  If you put LOTRO in the "fail" category, then you have to put EVE in it as well. but both are successful in their own right, I'd say.

and just to be clear, this thread is for truly  "failed" games,  not simply  "didn't kill WoW" games.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

None.

They failed down to game design and not petty bugs. I mean yeh crashes and lag and bugs and balance are all annoying but if the core design is good then you'd still play it and hope they fix the bugs.

Vanguard didn't fail cause of bugs and performance like everyone said. The game still has ugly graphics and character models and poor animations and spell effects that put everyone off. It still has bad lore and poor quest content and the world is still a huge barren wasteland. The game is just a generic bore.

LOTRO failed because the character models look retarded and so does the armour. The Animations are poor and the combat just isn't fun because it has this weird lag from qhen u push the button till it does it on the screen. The UI is ugly and theres only a handful of crap races and the classes are boring. You can't play as the other side unless you do monster play and the PVP is shit.

Age of conan is zoned to fuck and people don't enjoy hitting a loading screen every 30 seconds. People don't also enjoy having to run through that single player like game in a mmorpg when they want to be playing with other people.

 

Games that interest the mass playerbase are instantly popular but theres no mmorpg out there that has the appeal like WoW does to gamers. Sure the hardcore mmorpg player will play these mmorpgs but thats because they have no standards and havn't played a Half-life or gears of war before.

 

The only two mmorpgs that look to be big in the future are ToR and Blizzard's next mmorpg and thats because they are made with good developers with big budgets.

It's a good thing you know everyone's reasons on this subject. Mods you can close these forums, John.A.Zoid has single handedly solved the problems of the MMO genre.

Vanguard for sure. I would re-open my account myself if i my friends would return to it. But they have moved on to bigger and better things

lotro failed? I didn't know that.  Only thing I don't really like about lotro is how they did housing.  Lotro housing failed, not the game though hehe.  I miss playing the /music on my minstrel for hours on end with my MIDI keyboard

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 I don't think I'd put LOTRO in the "fail" category.

not WoW numbers doesn't automatically mean Fail. LOTRO is doing quite well for itself.  If you put LOTRO in the "fail" category, then you have to put EVE in it as well. but both are successful in their own right, I'd say.

and just to be clear, this thread is for truly  "failed" games,  not simply  "didn't kill WoW" games.

I would say that Eve was a failure at launch but no more. They have really fixed the game and gotten a lot of new subs because they made a good job. It is possible to turn a game around and Eve is the game that proved it. I kinda feel that this is actually the game that proves the OPs point.

LOTRO however seemed to at least start out better so I wouldn't consider it a failure.

Anyways I agree, EQ2 is a good example of a game that was horrible at launch but got fixed with a lot more content and all the buggs ironed out. And AoC seems to be turning around now too.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

None.

They failed down to game design and not petty bugs. I mean yeh crashes and lag and bugs and balance are all annoying but if the core design is good then you'd still play it and hope they fix the bugs.

Vanguard didn't fail cause of bugs and performance like everyone said. The game still has ugly graphics and character models and poor animations and spell effects that put everyone off. It still has bad lore and poor quest content and the world is still a huge barren wasteland. The game is just a generic bore.

LOTRO failed because the character models look retarded and so does the armour. The Animations are poor and the combat just isn't fun because it has this weird lag from qhen u push the button till it does it on the screen. The UI is ugly and theres only a handful of crap races and the classes are boring. You can't play as the other side unless you do monster play and the PVP is shit.

Age of conan is zoned to fuck and people don't enjoy hitting a loading screen every 30 seconds. People don't also enjoy having to run through that single player like game in a mmorpg when they want to be playing with other people.

 

Games that interest the mass playerbase are instantly popular but theres no mmorpg out there that has the appeal like WoW does to gamers. Sure the hardcore mmorpg player will play these mmorpgs but thats because they have no standards and havn't played a Half-life or gears of war before.

 

The only two mmorpgs that look to be big in the future are ToR and Blizzard's next mmorpg and thats because they are made with good developers with big budgets.

I hate to play the part of the troll, but for the sake of all gamerkind, would you Wow loving Blizzard fanboys please wipe the feces off your noses and get on some Methadone.

Yes, 11 million people CAN be wrong, look at America's previous elected President.

None. 

And don't say Vanguard, it's like a ship that sank 200 years ago and the guy at the bar tries to sell it for 20000$ and tells you it's in perfect condition, it just needs a new paint coat.

The game consists of very few servers, very little support and is overall underpopulated on every server. Maybe if SoE invested in the game it would still be somewhat recommendable but the Vanguard staff is understaffed.

im glad you named a single thing that has anything to do with gameplay >.>    Vanguard was good when it released and now theyve fixed bugs and playability.

Oh come on OP its fairly obvious why you have started this thread. You know damn well that you're gonna get the word Vanguard repeating over and over again like some litany of the faithful.

Originally posted by Locklain

Anarchy Online

Horrid server stability when launched. It was a miracle if the servers were up for longer than 30 minutes.

Funcom was able to pull this around to make one of the most involved MMOs of its time. Fixing server stability and bugs amass made it much more bearable and incredibly fun to play. I still love number crunching implants and buffs to get that better armor on.

Looks to me like Funcom might be pulling the same trick with AoC.  Already fits into this thread, kinda, sorta.  It crashed pretty hard shortly after launching, but it's a pretty good MMO now.  Give it another year, and may even have a great endgame and everything.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

Vanguard didn't fail cause of bugs and performance like everyone said. The game still has ugly graphics and character models and poor animations and spell effects that put everyone off. It still has bad lore and poor quest content and the world is still a huge barren wasteland. The game is just a generic bore.

Boy did you ever hit the nail on the head. I could not have said it better.

Originally posted by donjn

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

Vanguard didn't fail cause of bugs and performance like everyone said. The game still has ugly graphics and character models and poor animations and spell effects that put everyone off. It still has bad lore and poor quest content and the world is still a huge barren wasteland. The game is just a generic bore.

Boy did you ever hit the nail on the head. I could not have said it better.

Vanguard has some of my favorite character models in any MMO I've played, and I like the overall graphic look. Almost all MMOs make characters look too "heroic" for my tastes, and landscapes look too lush. I like the down-at-heel, weary look of Telon, where the deserts are dusty and the forests dank. And yes, the gameplay is generic, but that's a good thng. No-one in their right mind comes to MMOs for innovation - they exist to provide repetetive, predictable, undemanding entertainment and the best of them all conform to a very tight set of stereotypes.

As for the OP's original question, two long-forgotten MMOs I still log into and enjoy: Rubies of Eventide and Monsters of Mirth. I think MoM may even be getting an expansion.

Originally posted by Locklain

Anarchy Online

Horrid server stability when launched. It was a miracle if the servers were up for longer than 30 minutes.

Funcom was able to pull this around to make one of the most involved MMOs of its time. Fixing server stability and bugs amass made it much more bearable and incredibly fun to play. I still love number crunching implants and buffs to get that better armor on.

The first time I played that game was more than five years after release.  It wasn't a good game then, even by the standards of five years earlier.  It featured jerky controls, sloppy animations, little semblance of play balance, way too much time running back and forth, way too much time trying to get a decent mission out of the random mission generator, and way too much grinding.

Originally posted by ishist

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

None.

They failed down to game design and not petty bugs. I mean yeh crashes and lag and bugs and balance are all annoying but if the core design is good then you'd still play it and hope they fix the bugs.

Vanguard didn't fail cause of bugs and performance like everyone said. The game still has ugly graphics and character models and poor animations and spell effects that put everyone off. It still has bad lore and poor quest content and the world is still a huge barren wasteland. The game is just a generic bore.

LOTRO failed because the character models look retarded and so does the armour. The Animations are poor and the combat just isn't fun because it has this weird lag from qhen u push the button till it does it on the screen. The UI is ugly and theres only a handful of crap races and the classes are boring. You can't play as the other side unless you do monster play and the PVP is shit.

Age of conan is zoned to fuck and people don't enjoy hitting a loading screen every 30 seconds. People don't also enjoy having to run through that single player like game in a mmorpg when they want to be playing with other people.

 

Games that interest the mass playerbase are instantly popular but theres no mmorpg out there that has the appeal like WoW does to gamers. Sure the hardcore mmorpg player will play these mmorpgs but thats because they have no standards and havn't played a Half-life or gears of war before.

 

The only two mmorpgs that look to be big in the future are ToR and Blizzard's next mmorpg and thats because they are made with good developers with big budgets.

 

 

I hate to play the part of the troll, but for the sake of all gamerkind, would you Wow loving Blizzard fanboys please wipe the feces off your noses and get on some Methadone.

Yes, 11 million people CAN be wrong, look at America's previous elected President.

 

ROFL

Originally posted by neonwire

Oh come on OP its fairly obvious why you have started this thread. You know damn well that you're gonna get the word Vanguard repeating over and over again like some litany of the faithful.

ummm..no.

try again.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

Originally posted by neonwire

Oh come on OP its fairly obvious why you have started this thread. You know damn well that you're gonna get the word Vanguard repeating over and over again like some litany of the faithful.

ummm..no.

try again.

lol OP chill I think he was joking around with ya.

Also, EVE online would have to be my pick for an MMO that failed at start and now is definatly a success in alot of peoples books. Mine included.

The only MMO thus far that failed and made a miraculous comeback I'd say is EVE. I guess Vanguard has made a slight comeback but still requires some work. AoC was fun for a couple of days, literally, and seemed like something I'd keep playing but for some reason movie-based MMOs don't do it for me (MXO was a hardcore failure in my mind because while beta was an RPer's delight it ultimately turned into a gank fest on launch). I made it to level 30 within 2 days and for some reason felt that it was way too easy on top of not liking Conan lore at all.

I hope the next wave of MMOs are not failures because there's some really promising stuff on the horizon. I see Darkfall as being a failure that redeems itself and becomes a top contender though if that counts for anything.

I think EQ2 has made something of a comeback. Don't get me wrong I dislike the game because of all the zoning and such but I think it is doing way better then Vanturd.

Vanguard is pretty much the only one that i can think of off the top of my head.  Soon to join that catagory is AoC and WAR after a year or so of polish and investment.