Last I heard Eve online already exists.

Although if I was a dev and looking to copy any game, I would be looking to copy the one with 11.5 million concurrent subscribers not 47 thousand concurrent users.

Directly competing in an established market of only 200,000 players on exactly the same gametypes isn't all that smart.

I think you would have to be a total fool not to realise that WoW has some very good elements to it. Many of them entirely worth copying. In the end if you are making an MMORPG game you will be copying the genre to a large extent. Be it Eve, WoW, Warhammer, whatever.

The games are all copies of eachother it's only the skillfulness of the execution that differentiates. Should this game make as many sales as Warhammer or hold as many subs as that game does, WoW copy or not, I'm sure the developers will be very pleased with themselves.

Originally posted by baff

Last I heard Eve online already exists.

Although if I was a dev and looking to copy any game, I would be looking to copy the one with 11.5 million concurrent subscribers not 47 thousand concurrent users.

Directly competing in an established market of only 200,000 players on exactly the same gametypes isn't all that smart.

 

I think you would have to be a total fool not to realise that WoW has some very good elements to it. Many of them entirely worth copying. In the end if you are making an MMORPG game you will be copying the genre to a large extent. Be it Eve, WoW, Warhammer, whatever.

The games are all copies of eachother it's only the skillfulness of the execution that differentiates. Should this game make as many sales as Warhammer or hold as many subs as that game does, WoW copy or not, I'm sure the developers will be very pleased with themselves.

Uhm yes EVE Online exists, and what is your point? WoW exists as well ...

But EVE is not only a sandbox, it is also a sci fi game and it has a couple of features not that many people like, for one, no avatars, and secondly, time based skills, and it still has 250k subs ...

Devs are trying to target the WoW market all the time, but it is hard to steal this crowd away from WoW.

While on the other hand there are few well executed sandbox / pvp mmorpg's out there and there is a market for it imho, just take the 300k SWG pre-cu-nge subs ... and SWG pre-cu-nge was quite buggy with not much content.

It would be totally hilarius and pretty cool when Blizzard makes a Starcraft sandbox mmorpg with more risky PvP, it would be pretty clever as well, they would probably do a good job at it and totally dominate the market on all fronts :p

Neither Eve nor SWG were marketed as sandbox games.

Back in the day, Eve was marketed as both PvE and PvP on launch. It even had quests!

People don't buy Eve because they want a sandbox game, they buy it because they want a space game.

You might note that among the fantasy MMO's, all the old sandbox titles have all lost their audiences to modern titles like WoW. This is because fleshed out worlds is what the audience is looking for.

You might also note well that the titles you describe as "sandbox", are all old titles. Their continued success in the market place may owe a lot more to the lack of any competition than to their lack of lore, NPC dialogues and quests.

Compared to a current generation MMO, Eve does indeed appear to be sandbox. As might SWG. But then it's 6 years old. Compared to the other competition in the marketplace at that time, such as Lineage or Ultima, they weren't sandbox at all, they were state of the art RPG experiences.

Times have changed.

With little or no competition in the marketplace for it's custom, Eve has stagnated from launch. The dev's haven't bothered working hard to stay ahead. They haven't had too.

It's "sandbox" because they heve been able to add so little content and still dominate the genre. Not because players all love sandbox, but rather because sandbox is the best that is currently available to them.

I think "retro" is perhaps the word I would use to describe these games rather than sandbox.

I tend to use sandbox to describe games with mission editors and model making tools. Games like Operation Flashpoint and Second life or LittleBigPlanet. Games where players actually create their own content rather than games where there is merely little content available to them.

P.S. it hasn't been hard to steal WoW's audience away from it. It has been hard to keep them away. Plenty of WoW players all left to play Conan, Lord of the Rings and Warhammer, it's just that they all came back. Why did they all come back? Because WoW added new content.

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by sonicsix

Originally posted by Phos

Please make the game FFA PVP, 100% Looting, No Instances, and allow players to live and play within their ships and/or houses. And let there be planetary play AS WELL AS spaceship play.

- Phos

Yes, please do this so you and the three other people who will play this game can have loads of fun.

 

EVE Online had 47k peak concurrent users last time I checked, thats a little bit more then 4 no?

If you going to make JGE a WoW clone it will fail, just look at all the other releases that tried to copy WoW.

The best example is Warhammer Online, only now, when the Devs are starting to realise they copied too much of WoW and are focussing on the RVR again, is the game getting better ( and the subs comming back and/or staying )

 

How can JGE be a WOW clone? It is not even fantasy? A PvE centric, casual friendly space game will do well just because there is no such thing out there.

The only other space game is a pvp centric game with little PvE content. It is not hard to get the players who want PvE sci-fi content.

Originally posted by baff

Neither Eve nor SWG were marketed as sandbox games.

Back in the day, Eve was marketed as both

It doesn't matter what it is marketed as, hundreds of thousands of players jump from one game to the next, in an adhoc hit or miss sorta' way, they just stuck to SWG because of it's sandbox style of gameplay.

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by baff

Last I heard Eve online already exists.

Although if I was a dev and looking to copy any game, I would be looking to copy the one with 11.5 million concurrent subscribers not 47 thousand concurrent users.

Directly competing in an established market of only 200,000 players on exactly the same gametypes isn't all that smart.

 

I think you would have to be a total fool not to realise that WoW has some very good elements to it. Many of them entirely worth copying. In the end if you are making an MMORPG game you will be copying the genre to a large extent. Be it Eve, WoW, Warhammer, whatever.

The games are all copies of eachother it's only the skillfulness of the execution that differentiates. Should this game make as many sales as Warhammer or hold as many subs as that game does, WoW copy or not, I'm sure the developers will be very pleased with themselves.

Uhm yes EVE Online exists, and what is your point? WoW exists as well ...

But EVE is not only a sandbox, it is also a sci fi game and it has a couple of features not that many people like, for one, no avatars, and secondly, time based skills, and it still has 250k subs ...

Devs are trying to target the WoW market all the time, but it is hard to steal this crowd away from WoW.

While on the other hand there are few well executed sandbox / pvp mmorpg's out there and there is a market for it imho, just take the 300k SWG pre-cu-nge subs ... and SWG pre-cu-nge was quite buggy with not much content.

It would be totally hilarius and pretty cool when Blizzard makes a Starcraft sandbox mmorpg with more risky PvP, it would be pretty clever as well, they would probably do a good job at it and totally dominate the market on all fronts :p

 

Eve Online isn't a sandbox, it's a linear grind game.

The reason why most MMOs suck miserably for this time being: people cannot think out od the box!

If you hear about a new game, dont think what other games it's gonna be like or not; think "how different is it from the other ones (yes, even at the expense of awesome features in past games)".

Jeez, JGE is being compared to WoW & EvE  ! 

EvE has its own niche market and thats fine (dont advocate bringing it into all other space games coz then..wats the point of new games? better graphics?)

WoW has nothing to do space games. WoW is the king of hated MMOs (amongst other things). people who are anxiously waiting for new games, as well as people who design new games, hope/try their best that the new game will be different from WoW as much as possible.

I guess what i'm trying to say here is: let JGE's devs create JGE the way they see it. After you have actually "played" the game, you can judge it and relay your suggestions to the devs on the forums.

Get out of the box.

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by baff

Neither Eve nor SWG were marketed as sandbox games.

Back in the day, Eve was marketed as both

 

It doesn't matter what it is marketed as, hundreds of thousands of players jump from one game to the next, in an adhoc hit or miss sorta' way, they just stuck to SWG because of it's sandbox style of gameplay.

They didn't stick with SWG. They all moved on to WoW.

This is in responce to all the idiots who just dont get what the creators of jumpgate stated.

They are looking into ways to please every type of player dispite that their aim is for pvp. On doing so that means more $$ in their pockets which in return will = more content in the longrun.

The devs only mention how different companies approached this matter of pvp/pve and just pointing out how successful some companies were on doing so.

They focused more on how blizzard applies pvp/pve to their game. NOT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO EMULATE OR COPY WOW'S PVP MECHANIC.

This means a few things:

1.They will either make a huge shard with areas with pvp restrictions (like eve) and huge portions that will be pvp.

2. take the blizzard approach and have a few servers . some catering more pve than pvp and some pure pvp.

This will lead that on the pve servers squads can go into pvp war with other squads  and engage with no outside help ect thus not interfereing with players who dispise pvp or refuse to partake at that time (they might intergrate corporationw ars like eve did ) Allowing players to do concentual pvp will also help pve players get into pvp.

pvp servers will have no regulations ,prob only lowbie defence areas,  and pvp will be or a ffa format or rvr.  as for rvr route they would implement a squad declaration of war for squads of the same faction to pvp.

In other words they are planning out their way to implement pvp and pve on thier servers and want to please as many people as possible.

if they do decide to open various servers with different rulesets . THIS WILL NOT AFFECT PVE CENTRIC PLAYERS OR PVP CENTRIC PLAYERS AS THEY WILL HAVE THEIR SERVER OF CHOICE. THIS MEANS THERE IS NO POINT TO STEP ON INSULT OR PROBE YOUR ARSE SO HARD WITH YOUR THUMB YOU HAVE TO COME TO THESE FORUMS AND DISS THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU.

That sounds good on paper (or on a forum), but 99/100 it is not the case. WoW attempted to balance servers between PvE and PvP. The PvE centric players do not get affected, but the PvP centric players too...Sorry, but PvPing against enemies you don't know in arena's and minigames/scenario's is not PvP. It should either be a PvP focused game, or have no emphasis at all on PvP, because PvP will always be sacrificed for the PvErs, but not viceversa unless the game is based off of PvP.

GOOD LORD NO! Why on earth are people trying to soften this game up? WoWs PVP? Are you kidding me? 2v2 duels is not PvP.

This game should be an open world, open PvP game. /end

Originally posted by Indo

Making this game hardcore PvP alienates so much of the market. Why shoot yourself in the foot when you're out to make money? My still all-time favortie MMO was EnB and it had zero PvP. Granted, at some times I wish it did. If I wanted hardcore PvP I would be playing Eve (and yeah I played that for a while but it was so tremendously boring). IMO, PvP really works when there's no real penalty for dying (maybe time or XP or equipment durability ala EnB or other intangables like that).

I was about to express the same idea that is in the quote above, i'll quote and summarize instead :)

1) EnB rules all space MMOs

2) EvE is the most boring MMO ever (good graphics tho).

3) PvP is at its best when there is little to none cost associated with death (die -> rez -> fight some more)

4) EnB ruled because of its PvE

5) EvE is one space all-pvp MMO with its own hardcore fanbois, no need for another one.

Originally posted by taxguy

Dear Developers:

I am constantly amazed that MMO games get developed with a strong emphasis on PVP. Frankly, i HATE PVP. Not that I am aginst one on one, which is somewhat honorable,but usually PVP turns out to be a gank fest of 6 on one or it starts after a player is engaged in RVR,which is also unfair..

The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy? Have some servers with very limited PVP unless consensual and some with wide open PVP except for starting areas. This would appeal to everyone.

Also, as with WOW, instead of forcing folks into PVP, you can have a few ( and I mean a very few) zones that are PVP oriented and give some good rewards. Thus, you would be using the carrot vs. the stick approach. You can even have special PVP events found in "arena" types of zones.

If you are going to put PVP in all servers, then at least make it painless with cheap insurance or little penalty for ship destruction,

If you want to maximize your player potential and therefore profitability, you will adopt my suggestions.

As much as I constantly tease people like you, the very aptly named "carebears" of the MMO world, I do understand where you are coming from. I consider myself an avid PvPr and often grief play and gank in my PvP games of choice. However, I do feel that if a game is not solely focused around being a PvP game then there should be servers with PvP limitations for those that don't want to engage in that part of the game. IE: WoW, which is why I don't play WoW for the pvp (aside from the fact that it sucks, is completely gear based and has no risk and all reward).

However, when a game proclaims that it is being designed with PvP as a main/core feature of the game, I can only say you either need to suck it up or go find a new MMO to drool over. Its as simple as that.

I still do not comprehend how can a few people out there still dont get it.

Net devil has the option to please everyone by simply  MAKING MORE THAN ONE DAMN SERVER with different rulesets.

For the last time for every idiot who fails to read (yest im trolling all of those posters who think netdevil is going to implement wow;s pvp into jumpgate)

Netdevil likes how blizzard handled their different server types NOT HOW THEY HANDLE THIER GEARCENTRIC PVP. Net devil likes the" look they have pvp, pve, rp and pvp rp servers" not "Zomg we should emulate retadins and make a damn paladan ship class and gear it up with epic gunsto kill shaman heavy fighters in 3 hits."

To the last poster: Seriously learn to read the whole thread especially the LINK that was provided to how net devil is planning their approach to pvp. Net devil clearly stated that they plan to Cater everyone. they want to make money and pleasing just 1 spectrum of the players is beyond stupidity knowing that they can get more.

this is not eve everyone, there is not going to be 1 server, or may i safely say, a huge clusters of servers to operate one huge shard capable of holding the amount of people in one server .

I myself look foraward to the pvp aspect of the game. Yet we all know there will be a pve aspect of the game, a mission structure to lvl up.  This game is already aiming for 2 different types of players, just like eve has its pve players and pvp players. None of us do NOT know what Netdevils approach will be to their game.

will they have various servers to attract a larger amount of players.?

will they only attract one spectrum of players to their game.?

will there be only one server ala eve and attempt to please every type of player offering a huge battle zone for pvp, a pve enforced area with npcs that can shred up gankers and griefers ect. ?

These are questions only the dev's of this game will answer and in due time. prob when beta comes out they will be forced to show thier intentions on how to handle that matter. as for now we can only guess.

BUT LETS NOT BE STUPID PEOPLE.

Why should we attempt to DETER  or CRIPPLE possible subscriptions to this game because we like pvp or because we prefer pve.  its just completely  stupid and idiotic that we attempt to force our way of gaming onto others. Since we do not know for sure Net devils plans with their servers , why do we act STUPID and diss out different types of players causing them to shun the game or not even try it. Net devil mentioning the game is focused on pvp means nothing. They can simply throw out a server to please the non pvp players its as simple as that. And why on doing so will make the game less playable for pvpers or that Pve players will ruin the pvp aspect of the game?

Stop attacking eachother and wait for an answer from the devs themselves on how they will handle the matter.

I've never seen a game that tryed to please both PvPers and PvErs sacrifice PvE gameplay, but I've never heard of a game that did the same without sacrificing PvP gameplay.

PvPers don't want just PvP. They dont want to be put in arenas, duels, scenarios and minigames. They want PvP to be mixed in with PvE, an integral part of the game. In short they dont want just PvP, they want a PvP game. From fighting over castles, forts, systems, stations, etc...for real rewards like their clan alone owning it. Fighting over mobs, quests and missions, fighting over raid bosses, the game has to be based off of PvP, otherwise we'd just be playing shooters if all we wanted was a Battleground or something.

Maybe JGE can pull off a game with different servers that suit all styles of players, but I've never heard of anyone else doing it, and i light of AoC, WAR and Tabula Rasa (all 3 new games AAA with like $100 million invested) going under, I don't think it would be prudent for them to expiriment.

You also have to remember this isnt a brand new game/series, they have a background and fanbase to follow..The games must be similar.

Originally posted by Calind0r

I've never seen a game that tryed to please both PvPers and PvErs sacrifice PvE gameplay, but I've never heard of a game that did the same without sacrificing PvP gameplay.

 

PvPers don't want just PvP. They dont want to be put in arenas, duels, scenarios and minigames. They want PvP to be mixed in with PvE, an integral part of the game. In short they dont want just PvP, they want a PvP game. From fighting over castles, forts, systems, stations, etc...for real rewards like their clan alone owning it. Fighting over mobs, quests and missions, fighting over raid bosses, the game has to be based off of PvP, otherwise we'd just be playing shooters if all we wanted was a Battleground or something.

 

Maybe JGE can pull off a game with different servers that suit all styles of players, but I've never heard of anyone else doing it, and i light of AoC, WAR and Tabula Rasa (all 3 new games AAA with like $100 million invested) going under, I don't think it would be prudent for them to expiriment.

You also have to remember this isnt a brand new game/series, they have a background and fanbase to follow..The games must be similar.

Well, he got one out of three right. 
 

So two AAA MMO's that costed ~$100 million in development have been declining in subscriptions and closing servers since their release, and will likely take years and years, if ever to generate profit are what JGE should be aiming for?

At hearth JG is PVP. those who think else are going to be dissapointed. JG will never be PVE>PVE . and if it does.. well.. f them.

Originally posted by drogtor

Originally posted by Indo

Making this game hardcore PvP alienates so much of the market. Why shoot yourself in the foot when you're out to make money? My still all-time favortie MMO was EnB and it had zero PvP. Granted, at some times I wish it did. If I wanted hardcore PvP I would be playing Eve (and yeah I played that for a while but it was so tremendously boring). IMO, PvP really works when there's no real penalty for dying (maybe time or XP or equipment durability ala EnB or other intangables like that).

 

I was about to express the same idea that is in the quote above, i'll quote and summarize instead :)

3) PvP is at its best when there is little to none cost associated with death (die -> rez -> fight some more)

That... That is the exact reason why so many MMOs suck now. PvP is at it's ABSOLUTE WORST when there is absolutely no risk. Whats the point in fighting? Who cares if you lose? It doesn't matter at all. Having absolutely no risk kills games, makes them boring, redundant, and pointless.

There are enough pointless games out there for you to play. Go play them.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

That... That is the exact reason why so many MMOs suck now. PvP is at it's ABSOLUTE WORST when there is absolutely no risk. Whats the point in fighting? Who cares if you lose? It doesn't matter at all. Having absolutely no risk kills games, makes them boring, redundant, and pointless.

There are enough pointless games out there for you to play. Go play them.

+1. The only game that had no risk and i still enjoyed was Age of Conan for it's great combat mechanics and heavy player skill (instead of items) dependancy.

As for WOW .- i don't see any reason why somebody would like this ugly chieldish cartoon with horrible graphics and no real challenge, total dependency on items and stuff. Wow is about everything i don't like about MMOs. Though i actualy could've liked it if i were younger and not as experienced as gamer. It's all about age i guess. Chieldren like wow and they probably should stay there because more mature games with full PVP are often too "emotional" for them. Full PVP is not for the chieldren because they are simply not ready for it (if you'd see the general chat window in AOC or other full PVP game you'd understand)

While sure EVE is the best space game up to now with it's truly complex combat mechanics, mass PVP, fleet tactics, true market (those of you who only did a pew-pew vs NPCs have no idea what EVE is - that's why you got bored) - it IS totaly PVP + economy oriented. But It is also for older people. Go and read about average age of EVE player and then go and try to convince those people to try WOW ;) For the same reason younger WOW player won't understand the "advantages" of EVE. Just like arcade space game player couldn't understand fan of good old Elite back in 90s.

People of different age demand different stuff. Gamer experience also counts.

Originally posted by taxguy

Dear Developers:

Frankly, i HATE PVP.

The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy?

*Cocks shotgun*

GETTTTTT OUTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

Originally posted by ericmc783

Originally posted by taxguy

Dear Developers:

Frankly, i HATE PVP.

The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy?

 

*Cocks shotgun*

 

 

 

 

GETTTTTT OUTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

Originally posted by ericmc783

Originally posted by taxguy

Dear Developers:

Frankly, i HATE PVP.

The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy?

 

*Cocks shotgun*

 

 

 

 

GETTTTTT OUTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

QFT

The OP is 100% on track and correct.. IF you PvP gankers think OPEN pvp is so good.. give me ONE good example of a mmo with open PvP that has more then 200,000 people playing it.. Heck, I bet you can't even give me one with 100,000.... WoW has 11 million.. enough said...... Developers make games to make money.. MONEY MONEY MONEY is all that matters.. Therefore if you want a piece of that HUGE pie out there.. more and more Devs will go after that 11 million market then the piss ant 10,000 you PvP fanbois want..lmaooo  

Warhammer Online has 300,000.

http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/02/03/warhammer-online-releases-bigsmall-numbers/

More importantly, trying to compare ANY MMO's sub's to WoW just isn't significant, because WoW is plain and simply a freak of nature. There is no other MMO pulling NEARLY the subs it is.

I say, let the Devs for JG:E do what they want , and depending on how they implement PvP will decide whether or not I give it a shot.