I'm considering returning to WoW - in lack of something better. Unfortunately I couldn't find my WoW disc's, they are at a different location, and since I've started to try out RP'ing and is planning to roll on an RP realm this time, I decided to read some WoW lore and history of Warcraft.

And I'm surprised that it's pretty good actually, I found it interesting to read and related to places I've played ingame earlier.

www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/   I never even bothered reading it before since I felt no need for it on general servers.

I just wonder, why the heck did they make this story and universe into a silly cartoon world, what comes to mind is the elves with their extreme ears especially, the stories give a much better impression of them. I rember playing WoW the elves where a hated breed, perhaps because of some of the players... but they also look silly.

Not to menton the dancing that is taken from very RL stuff, makes the whole thing look childish compard to the story.

Yea I'm the kind of player that do care about the visuals, otherwise I wouldn't notice the cartoony style that much. But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals.

Just think it's to bad

Nothing wrong with WoW's graphics. They are stylised and convey the lore perfectly. They also run on a 6 year old PC or a notebook.

They don't use state of the art effects but that doesn't make them any less good.

Well, to be completely fair, Blizzard made a world true to the art style that they had implemented way back with Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans.  Had they done ANYTHING different than that the entire Blizzard fan network would have completely imploded upon itself.  One of the "charming" things about WOW when it first released was how people felt they were playing warcraft.

Secondly this is the art style that blizzard chose.  Which of course lends itself to a debate which has been going on since the 1860's.  Is reality truely art?  I think the folks at BioWare best summed up my own personal opinion when they said that they could have gone with the whole realism art direction, but when you do that you no longer have any seperation from other games.  With everyone trying to look as photorealistic as possible art starts to become secondary.

Finally, one of the reasons why WOW is the behemoth that it is, is simply because compared to everything else out there it runs on the vast majority of systems.  New, Old, doesn't matter.  People can play the damnable game on their laptops.  More people able to play it means you have a larger market.  A larger market = more money.

Well technically there's nothing wrong of course, it's the design.

It simply looks childish. So I totally disagree that it fits the lore.

To make them look more realistic wouldn't necessary require higher computer specs, like reducing the size of the night elf ears i.e.
 

I'll tell you why, Blizzard thought ahead.

They made the world a cartoon world because A) took less time, B) less money, and finally C) anyone on almost any computer could run WoW with little to no problem.

Well, that's what I think atleast.

Just look at warcraft 3 and you can clearly see that the style was there before WoW. WC3 basically has the same exact style as WoW just lower polygon counts and a inferior out of date engine.  The Elves still had very long ears which are similar to eastern style anime elves. WoW has a mixture of eastern and western art styles. Some western style cartoony exagerated features, and some anime stylizations.

Originally posted by Inzra

Well technically there's nothing wrong of course, it's the design.

It simply looks childish. So I totally disagree that it fits the lore.

To make them look more realistic wouldn't necessary require higher computer specs, like reducing the size of the night elf ears i.e.
 

Well, the "lore" that they have, is what they (Blizzard) made.  And they made that through the 3 different Warcraft games and their expansion packs.  They, as I said before :), carried on the style that they had started with.  If you take something, lets say a car.  And you make these cars for 10 or so years with a specific look to them.  Let's say Ferrari.  Then you decide well, we are going to make a new Ferrari, but instead of looking like a ferrari they make it look like a VW Bug.  As soon as you do that you alienate everyone that associated positively with the previous style.  So, instead of the repeat business you hope and pray that a new market segment will be bigger than what you had before.  In the case of Blizzard with Warcraft there was no reason at all to take that risk.  They had a near guarantee of x amount of fans that would feel right at home going from Warcraft III to World of Warcraft.

Ok, Warcraft 1-3 were pretty popular RTS games and are still played by fans around the world. Why would you change from the lore of the games already in the market?

Also, the whole cartoon aspect appeals more to the younger generation, another reason why WoW is so popular. Believe it or not, theres a reason for Saturday morning cartoons instead of Saturday morning reality kid shows.

I thought there were more grownups than kids playing mmo's actually, but I dunno.

Well it's too late to change anything now, just think it's a shame the world didn't get to see a realistic Azeroth, it could have been very good art and captivating.

I'm just saying, since the reason i try to get away from WoW is the graphics. The gameplay is ok I guess, but it could have been better too.

Well, just my thoughts.

The days when more adults than kids played MMOs is long over, especially with WoW. May be other games like EQII or vanguard are still heavily populated with adult males, but WoW is mostly filled with middle schools and high schools and  a bunch of dorky college kids.

Originally posted by pavs

The days when more adults than kids played MMOs is long over, especially with WoW. May be other games like EQII or vanguard are still heavily populated with adult males, but WoW is mostly filled with middle schools and high schools and  a bunch of dorky college kids.

Yea you're probably right. Just hope that RP realms will give a better WoW experience for me this time, then I guess I can tolerate the graphics once more

Well, aside from the fact that it looks like previous games in the Warcraft series, as has been mentioned earlier, the graphics style chosen by Blizz is much less complicated to present than say the more detailed and realistic style of SWG.  Lag in SWG in cities back when the game was populated could be quite amazing because of the detail that was being drawn on your screen.

Much less complicated in WoW.  Lower polygon counts, as has been mentioned, but also character customization (and therefore the need to draw all those toons in SW, or Orgrimmar, or, heaven forbid, Ironforge) is far less than SWG or Vanguard offers.

Also in SWG emotes change the way your character looks.  Not so in WoW; a /smile doesn't change the expression on your toon's face like it does in SWG.  That's less resource intensive.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Nothing wrong with WoW's graphics. They are stylised and convey the lore perfectly. They also run on a 6 year old PC or a notebook.

They don't use state of the art effects but that doesn't make them any less good.

stylized .... the fanboy defensive word for anyone attacking thier games graphics

"Ravanos's Online MMORPG"
forum goer: "dude wtf is with the graphics ... the characters are literally stick figures?!?"
Fanboy: "there's nothing wrong with Ravanos's online MMORPG graphics, they are stylized and convey the lore perfectly!"

Everyone says how WoW has crap graphics and yet when playing the art style shines through so well that they look modern and much better than games with more upto date engines like EQ2. I look at WoW and the world feels more detailed and more alive and just a place I want to explore. I look at EQ2 and it looks bland and really dull and for some reason the graphics look dated now and WoW's don't. For me WoW has the best graphics in the genre and that speaks volumes for Blizzard's Art team. They capture the atmosphere of each zone perfectly and I just loved exploring the farm fields of Westfall to RedRidge and Duskwood and then STV with the Booty Bay. Each zone was just made perfectly and each one had such a different atmoshpere and made you want to explore and just made the graphics seem much more alive than a dull EQ2.

Although WoW's look isnt my preference, it is very easy to see that it is the same art style as in Warcraft 3 and the old RTS games. Considering the large pre WoW Blizzard fanbase, that is reason enough to continue this style.

Well, aside from being the art style it was in the RTS games, it seems that during the time of its development, a whole lot of developers were just getting the hang of their new friend- the Intuos, as well as Photoshop (photoshop was only just then truly becoming a viable option for texturing). It made it only natural that if your models (both char and enviro) took significantly less polys to achieve as nice a result, thanks to bold colors and good shading on the maps themselves,  as a higher poly, bland texture, you would go with the drawn look every time. It also opened up much more room for random environmental particle effects, such as birds fluttering, that was just becoming popular to implement. The fact of it being playable on 6 yr old pcs, wasn't even considered that much because the specs back then lined up with some of the newer stuff of the time.

It now has such a huge following mostly because of what others have mentioned above 1. younger playerbase, 2. flashy obtainable armors ala asian flare, instead of the comparitively dull armors we see guards wearing- this is a clear nod to the largest portion of their playerbase.

Well, everyone has talked about how WoW graphics are a direct descendant of all the Warcraft RTS games, so no need to repeat there, but take a look at the NEW Northrend graphics and you will notice they are much more grittier and realistic than previous WoW iterations, especially outlands with its... *gasp* outlandish colors and forms.

Maybe that style will appeal more to you, of course the general art style is still the same.

BTW, the average GAMER age is 30 years old. This is for all video games across the whole world as released by a very reputable statistic report compiled annually on video games and video gamers. Of course the report is about all video games and not about MMOs nor WoW in particular, but the myth that WoW is full of kiddies is just that, a myth.

Plenty of adults play WoW, plenty of MMO veterans play WoW too. Yes, plenty of kiddies play WoW as well.... you could say plenty of Anything play the damn game... and you would probably be right. (plenty of Anti-WoW fanatics play wow? mmmmh intriguing...).

I really don't ascribe to the modern fascination with ultra-realistic graphics.

I can understand the desire for increasing realism in games; it adds a level of immersion (it looks real, therefore it feels a bit more real) but am I alone in that I consider gameplay to be a much more important factor than whether sunlight refracts perfectly through a droplet of falling water?

It's an argument that's been ongoing since WoW launched back in 2004, and has recently reared it's head again due to the decision of the Star Wars developers to eschew realistic graphics and go for sytlized imagery a la Clone Wars in their new project The Old Republic.

The above posts have pretty much nailed why Blizzard made the artistic (and commercial) decision to go for a more basic and accessible graphical engine, but suffice to say that (in my opinion) it was one of the key defining factors in making the game such a phenomenon.

I'd also say that it's a key factor in the failure/marginal success of post-WoW MMO's; they spend so long on refining the graphics so that it looks much better than WoW that they don't have time to add that extra layer of content and polish.

They lose the "lower-end" market by excluding those people whose PCs won't run the game with any degree of performance, and they lose the "higher-end" market by failing to provide, at launch, the content and gameplay necessary to compete with a rival that has a huge fanbase and 4 years of development.

I should note that WoW's graphics are not the same now as they were in 2004. I noticed a big change in the bloom/particle effects when I returned to the game after the release of the Wrath of the Lich King; Blizzard is slowing incorporating graphical improvements as time progresses. They acknowledge this themselves in this interview from a few months back.

Edit: Oh, and you definately get a better game experience on an RP server; I've been playing on them for years and would never consider going back to a "normal" server. You get such an added element of dynamic storytelling that, for a fan of the lore and an avid reader like myself, it's well worth a go.

It's not necessarily the cartoonish graphics that might ruin the immersion, but the fluid motion of the world and charcters. Combat, running, etc. If it flows well without it being clunky or 'fidgety', then you can easily enjoy it. WoW did it well IMO, so long as they bring new style to the art, new design, they'll keep the interest of those playing, and enjoying the game.

Originally posted by Inzra

I thought there were more grownups than kids playing mmo's actually, but I dunno.

Well it's too late to change anything now, just think it's a shame the world didn't get to see a realistic Azeroth, it could have been very good art and captivating.

I'm just saying, since the reason i try to get away from WoW is the graphics. The gameplay is ok I guess, but it could have been better too.

Well, just my thoughts.

have you not read any of the posts above you? the art direction they used is the same as every other warcraft game. and i dont find it childish, i find it charming, which fits the world perfectly.

Originally posted by pavs

May be other games like EQII or vanguard are still heavily populated with adult males, but WoW is mostly filled with middle schools and high schools and  a bunch of dorky college kids.

Why did you feel the need to specify a gender? Are you really implying that females dont play MMORPGs. This dosent seem like a very adult comment to me. Perhaps you are one of the middle schoolers or dorky college kids you speak of.

OP:

1. For Lore look at www.wowwiki.com  70.000 pages of info and mostly filled  with lore descriptions of the Warcraft universe. Coming from the games, the dozens of books, comics and RPG.

Did you know for instance that Goldshire has a population of 7.000 (RPG game info).

2. Perhaps I am the only one in this thread to realise it (and that should be sad), but this style of visuals and realism is the ONLY one working decently in MMORPG's these days. Our servers, our client machines and our internet lines just can't cope with so called "realistic high settings" we see in games like CoD or other "pre loaded" games.

To have realistic "fights" would mean FAR more data to be transferred from and to the client graphics cards and the above limit on hardware is not up to it in an mmorpg, where millions of data have to be transferred NOT only through the clients PC's (HardDisk--> video memory), but also from server to client.

Remember all interaction data come also from the server connection, like "blocking" or lines of sight, battle resolution, stats from all avatars, of course graphics are more a client related issue, but you have to count everything in.

Just the simple add on of achievements made for a very heavy extra "burdon" on the number of data being transferred and being accounted for.

So, that's the very simple reason even newer not even published MMORPG's choose for the simpler data solutions (like KOTOR). AoC is a very good example that let everyone show why they could NOT include 100vs100 fights with 2008/2009 technology.

So it is simple: Blizzard worked within the limitations of present technology (and btw Hard Disks STILL spin around at 7200 rpm on the average client machine just like they did back in 2004 and yes we still don't have 16 GByte of interal RAM).

Blizzard "checks " every month your machine's data btw. The famous "collecting system info" and they can pretty good see where the average park is at the moment. The result is that most of us had to downgrade a few graphics settings to get good frame rates again (mostly shadow off) in WotLK.

"Realistic" graphics is just asking for more trouble and a more faster aging process of the game's visuals.

Originally posted by Inzra

I'm considering returning to WoW - in lack of something better. Unfortunately I couldn't find my WoW disc's, they are at a different location, and since I've started to try out RP'ing and is planning to roll on an RP realm this time, I decided to read some WoW lore and history of Warcraft.

And I'm surprised that it's pretty good actually, I found it interesting to read and related to places I've played ingame earlier.

www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/   I never even bothered reading it before since I felt no need for it on general servers.

I just wonder, why the heck did they make this story and universe into a silly cartoon world, what comes to mind is the elves with their extreme ears especially, the stories give a much better impression of them. I rember playing WoW the elves where a hated breed, perhaps because of some of the players... but they also look silly.

Not to menton the dancing that is taken from very RL stuff, makes the whole thing look childish compard to the story.

Yea I'm the kind of player that do care about the visuals, otherwise I wouldn't notice the cartoony style that much. But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals.

Just think it's to bad

"But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals."

What people, huh?  Yeah, WoW's graphics have really held it back.  If only they had gone for realism, then maybe it would have been successful!  What a dismal failure it has been because people grew tired of the visuals.  Oh wait, your personal opinion isn't necessarily universal.  If you're going to try to represent the opinion of the WoW playerbase, there are actual complaints that many people have at present.

1.  Hardcore raiders feel WotLK content so far is too easy.

2.  Arena players hate being forced to BG.

3.  Other PvP'ers hate being forced to arena.

I could really go on for pages on things that WoW players actually dislike.  Believe me, the entire WoW forums are filled with 90% bitching in the PvP, class role, and class forums.  Nobody cares about what you're talking about, though.  If they did, they wouldn't play.  People don't last long in games whose art style they hate.  That's the one universal law of MMORPG's.  If you fuck up the art, good luck retaining players.

The graphics aren't one of the things that WoW players think about a lot, even though there are flaws.  Guess what?  Everybody knows the graphics aren't technically impressive.  Do you think I didn't notice the pentagonal wheels on a wagon when I first logged in as a human?  Do you think I didn't notice how the trees in some of the pre-BC areas are little more than an angled cube with translucent "leaf" textures on each side?  I did.  Everybody did.  Everybody has seen these things.  The point is that the art is stylized, and on the whole, people will accept decent art and crappy technical quality over the converse.

Sure, I'd love it if they improved the technical quality while retaining the art quality.  Everybody would.  Then again, there are a whole lot of WoW players whose computers couldn't handle that.  That was a strategic move on Blizzard's part.

Look at a game like EQ2.  That's a fair comparison, since they both released at the same time.  In my opinion, most of the models for EQ2 look like plastic.  The only good ones are the races added by the expansions.  The new races do look good, but since EQ2 went for realism, I can't help but notice when things are not realistic.  They just seem flawed.  When I look at the fae characters in EQ2, the faces are detailed and far more realistic than those of WoW, but I couldn't help but notice that the forehead didn't naturally transition into the nose.  Rather than a smooth curve, the top part of the nose is a little too broad.  That one little flaw stands out on each face I see of that race.  On a realism scale, WoW's characters are far more grotesque, but that's ok because they're stylized.  They're not supposed to be real, so I don't notice it.

Adding insult to injury was that EQ2 had massively higher (extremely high for its time of release) system requirements.

And WoW did do some things right on the visual end.  Compared to other games of the era, WoW's animations were superb.  EQ2's combat animations are frankly terrible.

People always bitch about PVP balance in WoW and yet I thought it was the most balanced mmorpg out there and didn't understand why they were all moaning, I was owning people with whatever class I played. The problem I have with the game is there is no BGless server and thats what ruined the game for me cause it killed the social world pvp.

Originally posted by Kurush

 

"Adding insult to injury was that EQ2 had massively higher (extremely high for its time of release) system requirements.

And WoW did do some things right on the visual end.  Compared to other games of the era, WoW's animations were superb.  EQ2's combat animations are frankly terrible.

The animation can only be "superb" (and fluent) if you limit the number of data being handled in MMORPG's.

That's the main reason all those fantasy MMORPG's have a "stick" in the ass of their avatars or behave clunky and unresponsive. Try to have "good PvP" in these conditions is silly. You end up fighting the data lag instead of fighting people.

The moment we come to realise that, it will be a giant step forward (even for developpers).

I think Biwoare got the picture this time (after AoC).

So in MMORPG's visuals prime number of data (high number of pixels, polygons).

Please stop comparing them to "pre loaded graphics" games where everyone sits down off line  for a minute to load the tons of data (from Hard Disk) of so called "realistic" hi res graphics (which mostly age very fast btw).