I just laugh at all these darkfall carebears that never even play it but willing to defend it with their life. Dreaming and hoping is nice. I just getting sick of thes hype trains that seem to be the tactics for game companies. Its great how they talk about what they going try do before they even start coding. Most games feel so empty these days or maybe its just me. I join the hype train on AoC and I plan make it my last.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by ProfRed

Check out the sources now..  There is something new...

@Fyrewall I don't discredit that site or think anyone should stop going there and reading the negative.  I never said the game was perfect, and have been pretty critical on key points.  I didn't know that this was an issue because like I said a little over a week ago I was involved in an almost 50 man fight which ran great.  I know there were complaints about the two patches leading up to this fight dropping performance, and I didn't realize it was lag as well.  I talked to someone involved in the fight and I understand the issue.  Aventurine knows about it as well. 

 

Aye, not saying you are one of the people as your posts are pretty much middle ground 'wait and see' posts.

Also I understand the situation as well and can chalk it up to beta issues and the such. What I cant stand is when you have the die hards suffering from ostrich syndrome, constantly sticking their heads in the sand and acting like if they dont see it its not there, while at the same time telling others they have no idea what they are talking about.

And I'll agree that DFO needs a lot more time in testing because no matter what anyone says, 2 weeks is nowhere near enough time for the testing that remains needing to be done.

 

But... but... but.... what about the AI bots and professional testers.  They didn't need us, remember?

 

Aye, another reason they need to put a shock collar on Tasos. I bet everytime he says something about the game the actual devs do a collective facepalm.

Yeah any time I say trolls I refer to both sides of the spectrum.  They are no different outside of their stance.

They most definitely did not have some magic tester bots haha.  They even cut NPC hirelings from the game.  If they had tester bots hirelings would be simple...

There is a lot Tasos and the community relations did wrong with DF, but IMHO I think it is a solid game at its core.  If their server/netcode can support the playerbase and they continue to update it will survive and provide great fun for a lot of gamers.

Originally posted by freakky

I just laugh at all these darkfall carebears that never even play it but willing to defend it with their life. Dreaming and hoping is nice. I just getting sick of thes hype trains that seem to be the tactics for game companies. Its great how they talk about what they going try do before they even start coding. Most games feel so empty these days or maybe its just me. I join the hype train on AoC and I plan make it my last.

Agreed.  They are crying "poor us, have mercy on us", we can't handle the interest in the game.  Yet they keep marching Tasos out in front of cameras on the news, at game conferences, game championships, etc hyping it up.  They release TONS of official updates, videos, screen shots... and one liners like "try before you buy" and stuff like that.  Then they cry "ooohhhh, whaaaaa, too much interest."  Then they cry because they'll have to staged releases because they can't afford the servers to go live.  One thing is for sure, my grocer loves DFO, because I enjoy popcorn with my train wreck reading.

Originally posted by erandur

Darkfall -> Java
Games that support 50v50 combat -> C++ or possibly C#.

I hate to say this, but I predicted this would happen a year ago, Java isn't capable of doing big ground-breaking stuff. Now don't start with "my prof says it is possible", it might be possible, if you feel like spending twice the time of doing it in C++, for the same results.
The only exception I've seen, is EVE online, which is in Stackless Python. But that's mainly because of the changes the performance fixes they made themselves (Stackless IO). Maybe Aventurine will try to do something like that, but it might easily take them a few years... ;)

You know what a engine is and you know what  scripting support for a engine is?

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by ProfRed

Check out the sources now..  There is something new...

@Fyrewall I don't discredit that site or think anyone should stop going there and reading the negative.  I never said the game was perfect, and have been pretty critical on key points.  I didn't know that this was an issue because like I said a little over a week ago I was involved in an almost 50 man fight which ran great.  I know there were complaints about the two patches leading up to this fight dropping performance, and I didn't realize it was lag as well.  I talked to someone involved in the fight and I understand the issue.  Aventurine knows about it as well. 

 

Aye, not saying you are one of the people as your posts are pretty much middle ground 'wait and see' posts.

Also I understand the situation as well and can chalk it up to beta issues and the such. What I cant stand is when you have the die hards suffering from ostrich syndrome, constantly sticking their heads in the sand and acting like if they dont see it its not there, while at the same time telling others they have no idea what they are talking about.

And I'll agree that DFO needs a lot more time in testing because no matter what anyone says, 2 weeks is nowhere near enough time for the testing that remains needing to be done.

 

But... but... but.... what about the AI bots and professional testers.  They didn't need us, remember?

 

 

Aye, another reason they need to put a shock collar on Tasos. I bet everytime he says something about the game the actual devs do a collective facepalm.

I laughed at this one.
 

Yeah, now after his alleged statement of, "We're hoping to get 50,000 players on each server" (something like that) the developers are probably looking at Newegg for some new servers.   Actually, much like this

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by erandur

Darkfall -> Java
Games that support 50v50 combat -> C++ or possibly C#.

I hate to say this, but I predicted this would happen a year ago, Java isn't capable of doing big ground-breaking stuff. Now don't start with "my prof says it is possible", it might be possible, if you feel like spending twice the time of doing it in C++, for the same results.
The only exception I've seen, is EVE online, which is in Stackless Python. But that's mainly because of the changes the performance fixes they made themselves (Stackless IO). Maybe Aventurine will try to do something like that, but it might easily take them a few years... ;)

 

You know what a engine is and you know what  scripting support for a engine is?

 

From what I've heard and read, Java is used for the server, which is exactly where the problem lies probably. ;) Or at least the lag part, bad fps is just their crappy pc. :)

The game is in beta and it's current state may or may not reflect it's state at release. Indeed that is why they have the NDA up in the first place. You guys know this, right ?

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by erandur

Darkfall -> Java
Games that support 50v50 combat -> C++ or possibly C#.

I hate to say this, but I predicted this would happen a year ago, Java isn't capable of doing big ground-breaking stuff. Now don't start with "my prof says it is possible", it might be possible, if you feel like spending twice the time of doing it in C++, for the same results.
The only exception I've seen, is EVE online, which is in Stackless Python. But that's mainly because of the changes the performance fixes they made themselves (Stackless IO). Maybe Aventurine will try to do something like that, but it might easily take them a few years... ;)

 

You know what a engine is and you know what  scripting support for a engine is?

 

I have not read the whole thread, but If darkfall server is made with java. the game will relese with NPC disabled or handicaped/nerrfed to save as much CPU as can, as Java is a beast that really eat tons of CPU power.    There has been other games (like Vanguard) disabling stuff to be able to run, because enough CPU was not available. 

Originally posted by Xris375

The game is in beta and it's current state may or may not reflect it's state at release. Indeed that is why they have the NDA up in the first place. You guys know this, right ?

You do realize that most if not all MMOs two weeks from,supposed, release is pretty much what yoo should expect on release?  Or are you saying that DF will not release when they say it will?

Originally posted by xxxfistxxx

only game that does 50 ppl pvp relatively ok is counterstrike.

No mmo does 50 man fights well,

 

As far as df goes lets hope its the final blow for people like you posting int he forums

 

First I'm going to say, I don't know what you're on about. Dark Age of Camelot had 200 man fights (with lots of lag, though).

As for the OP, Darkfall can handle way more than 50 man fights without issue. 

Originally posted by xxxfistxxx

only game that does 50 ppl pvp relatively ok is counterstrike.

No mmo does 50 man fights well,

 

As far as df goes lets hope its the final blow for people like you posting int he forums

 

I'd like to introduce you, my trolling friend (term friend used loosely), to EVE Online.  they've had 1000+ people in a fight (which of course lags), but you have have dozens fighting with little if any server lag.

Yeah and large EVE fights used to crash the server, and in WoW they made arena and BG's because their servers couldn't handle the stress of the Tarren Mill outbreaks.

Who cares about all of that though...  This is beta.  Up until a patch that reduced FPS by over half for most users there were fights of 40+ members that were pretty smooth.  After that patch is when this took place.  After the latest patch the FPS and performance are back up to where they used to be.

Example: 76-80 FPS regularly dropped to 27-32 FPS regularly when this fight took place with that patch.  Now it is back up to 76-80 FPS.  Supposedly they had the client setup to perform heavy logging and in debug mode.  They reverted this.  It is sad that they can't do the testing they need and pull the logs they need because of leakers and the outcry that a community generates when a game is in beta. 

If you can't wait to pass judgment until a game is released and they actually accept money for the product then by all means continue to hate, flame, and troll.

Originally posted by ProfRed

There were up to high 50's fights tested previously that ran fine.  The only problems were FPS related.  The last 2 patches which were major reduced FPS for many users.  Since this happened FPS drops much quicker, but it is not net lag.  I don't know what they did, but you guys and these leakers leave a lot out of the story such as graphics settings, the fact that these last 2 updates which were huge caused FPS drops, and that this is a beta.

This is the reason companies are strict on NDA these days.  If we are going to turn this into a leak thread then go ahead and talk about something first hand instead of quoting some angry dramatic guildies who don't know how siege mechanics work.  Their leader didn't crash he logged.  I agree the system needs tweaking that doesn't mean the game is broken or not working or it was just dealth 'the final blow'.

Seriously grow up with your emotional outbursts.  If you are going to be all emo then just swear the game off and say peace.  Otherwise let it launch and then pass judgment. 

I love the way you say : "only problems were FPS related".... that single issue which kind of killed off many PC games. Try playing GTA3 on anything less than a quad core processor ! This single issue can easily break a game especially one withsupposed  "limited appeal" in the first place. Couple that with peoples obsession with large scale fights and this is a recipe for disaster. "Only FPS" is a understatement ! Go read AOC history for a low down.

To be honest I am very dubious of the game because of the grand claims of uber technology from networking to Graphics. If it really was that uber then aventurine would sell it on. For example the unreal 3 engine or any techology used by modern games e.g. speedtree or havoc physics engine.

With events like that  "coffee morning" and the plea for money seems like aventurine *should* have done this. Personally I suspect its because the tecnhnology is simply not that good. So yeah I could expect posts like the OP to become more prevailant. 

I could be wrong... though if I am AND aventurines technology is so amazing (from such a small team) then they are morons to have not sold some of it on to fund the game and KEEP to deadlines and not fail due to percieved demand or hosting (was that the least excuse anyways ? ). This game still smells funny... 

Originally posted by Malthros

Originally posted by xxxfistxxx

only game that does 50 ppl pvp relatively ok is counterstrike.

No mmo does 50 man fights well,

 

As far as df goes lets hope its the final blow for people like you posting int he forums

 

 

 

I'd like to introduce you, my trolling friend (term friend used loosely), to EVE Online.  they've had 1000+ people in a fight (which of course lags), but you have have dozens fighting with little if any server lag.

As much as I'm starting to like EVE, it's simply not a valid example. Why? Because in EVE there is background lighting, maybe some scenery, and ships - most of which, the models, are thousands of kilometers away, and thus are only boxes on your screen. That means the game doesn't have to generate 1000+ models with textures and whatnot at once. The only cause of lag is the massive amounts of weaponry being fired because each shot/missile is tracked individually (which is why EVE suggests you group your weapons, to reduce lag.)

Now, in a typical fantasy game, you're going to have thousands of textures to load in a large battle - world textures, player textures (they will all be within your sight usually), never mind the lighting, spell effects, AND similar tracking of bolts/arrows/rocks/etc. that puts stress on the server. When you take all that into account, EVE really is empty space while a typical fantasy game is full of things that have to load, which puts more stress on the server.

So, yeah. While xxxfistxxx isn't totally right, using EVE as an example that a single-server fantasy game can have huge battles with minimal lag/FPS issues is not accurate.

Oh and I aint buying the "debug" mode nonsense. I am sure logging creates some slowdown but....

Past games has shown that beta tester complaining about performance tend to be unhappy with performance with the game releases. Usually this winds up being coupled with a miracle patch or buying new PC threads. AOC & VG  being prime examples....

I already admitted I was wrong about the only FPS thing.  If you are going to attack me from a post on so many pages back at least read the rest of the thread.

That is fine if you don't believe me.  Around 80 fps pre patch, max 30 post patch for a couple patches, and now back to 80 fps after the last patch.  It is a fact.  Ask whatever beta testers you know.  I was guessing based on patch notes about why it was so low for those few patches and why this took place, but again who cares it is beta. 

I am saying that the problem is greatly alleviated and will be at launch.  You can keep dwelling on a performance issue that existed in previous beta build if you like.  Hell you can come here 2 years from now and talk about how they have performance problems in raids and keep dreaming that the last beta build would be the final product for all I care.  It is you who is basing your emotional judgment on assumptions and disbelief and me who is basing my non emotional judgment on fact and first hand experience.

Originally posted by ProfRed

I already admitted I was wrong about the only FPS thing.  If you are going to attack me from a post on so many pages back at least read the rest of the thread.

That is fine if you don't believe me.  Around 80 fps pre patch, max 30 post patch for a couple patches, and now back to 80 fps after the last patch.  It is a fact.  Ask whatever beta testers you know.  I was guessing based on patch notes about why it was so low for those few patches and why this took place, but again who cares it is beta. 

I am saying that the problem is greatly alleviated and will be at launch.  You can keep dwelling on a performance issue that existed in previous beta build if you like.  Hell you can come here 2 years from now and talk about how they have performance problems in raids and keep dreaming that the last beta build would be the final product for all I care.  It is you who is basing your emotional judgment on assumptions and disbelief and me who is basing my non emotional judgment on fact and first hand experience.

Not attacking you .. just pointing out that downplaying FPS is not a very appropriate thing to do ! Honestly you do need to put DF into a wider framework of MMO releases. Your playing down of FPS just makes you sound hideously biased and unfocused.

As for first hand experience.. well if your in beta your bound by the NDA so unfortunatly you cannot say you *have* first hand experience... damn that NDA eh ? Pity because the real factor in this discussion thread is *how* many people can be on screen before FPS falls badly.I have not seen any videos with this on. I did not see any in AOC either !

Though I would like your perspective on why aventuine is not selling on some of this amazing technology ???  Enabling 100's of people in near real time MMO to 3rd parties companies in order to fund there little enterprise... certainly if they have it be a less risky venture than releasing there own game or stuggling for money for hosting as they seem to have done in recent months ? I find this odd given that Tasos has been quotes somewhere as saying the technologies underlieing the game are also valuable.

Got a good product sell it ? Got good underlieing technologies.. sell it too !... makes sense. Heck I think the Unreal 3 engine was licenced by another company for use before the actual unreal 3 came out ! And this has never ever affected sales of unreal Tournament 3. In fact profit from initial sales of unreal tournament were very low compared to profit made from licesning the engine. (Unreal 3 was unsurped by Call of duty 4 I seem to recall). So in reality this is a very wise move.

But this is why I don't tihnk DF is sitting on a wealth of great technologies. Odds are there very mediocre and no one really cares. Else I am sure money would have already been made via the above method.  

Anyways this train of thought is not "emotional" but actually a very logical "buisness" minded train of thought and past examples. It might be flawed, but it is nether the less logical.