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General Discussion  » Aion, U.S. Vaporware

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85 posts found
stayontarget

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/08
Posts: 2801

Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound

2/08/09 5:36:05 AM#26

Here are all the post made by the community managers over at Aionsource.  www.aionsource.com/forum/devtrack.php

 

So you were saying you have not heard a peep from them ? They sure are active over there for being a U.S. Vaporware.

gFiz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 109

2/08/09 8:03:51 AM#27

yes it's vaporware OP, now go back to your RoM forums like a good little troll.

sanedor

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 434

2/08/09 8:10:51 AM#28
Leonidus0

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 54

 
2/08/09 11:48:29 AM#29
Originally posted by stayontarget

Here are all the post made by the community managers over at Aionsource.  www.aionsource.com/forum/devtrack.php

 

So you were saying you have not heard a peep from them ? They sure are active over there for being a U.S. Vaporware.

 

You just gave me SO much information. Seriously, the posts made by those "community managers" might as well be from regular players with a blue name. They know nothing more than the average person. All they do is post regurgitated lines of text to "cool the crowd" and serve as a healthy dose of distractions when needed.


 

Oh, and please don't post links to retailers with an "official" date posted. Those are notorious for being inaccurate. They just give you an arbitrary date to get your money. You should know that.

 


 

dirtyklingon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 98

QAPLAH!

2/08/09 7:08:12 PM#30

i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them.

 

if the game was vapourware it would not have come out in korea already, there would be retarded release dates a la darkfall, and the game wouldn't have been announced relatively recently.

i am as impatient as anyone for this game to be released in north america, but at leasty i can rest assured that the devs are being honest about it's development. i'd rather have no release date then a false one.

 

and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s.

and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:

duke nukem forever - announced in what? 1998? still in development.

darkfall - how many missed release dates, an iron handed nda, and the leaked video show a game with graphics, animations, mechanics and ui that have been outdated for 10 years.

 

 

 

KERPLAH!

Leonidus0

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 54

 
2/08/09 8:18:14 PM#31
Originally posted by dirtyklingon

i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them.

 

if the game was vapourware it would not have come out in korea already, there would be retarded release dates a la darkfall, and the game wouldn't have been announced relatively recently.

i am as impatient as anyone for this game to be released in north america, but at leasty i can rest assured that the devs are being honest about it's development. i'd rather have no release date then a false one.

 

and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s.

and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:

duke nukem forever - announced in what? 1998? still in development.

darkfall - how many missed release dates, an iron handed nda, and the leaked video show a game with graphics, animations, mechanics and ui that have been outdated for 10 years.

 

 

 

I'll point out how many times you are blatantly contradicting and wrong:

1.)" i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. "

Yet here you are responding.. laff?

2.)"aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them."

 Actually, it's not. See www.aionsource.com/forum/graveyard/11305-ncsoft-revised-overseas-roll-out-plan-aion.html. This is a recent thread discussing the derailment of the U.S. release date. What's that sound? It's the sound of you slapping yourself in the forehead. Oh, and you don't truly know that "when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them." That's a load of crock that you can't back up.

3.)"and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s."

I don't even why you're stating this. I never once said that there was anything wrong with not having forums on the official site. What's wrong is that they have no forums AND no updates to keep us on track with the progress of the game.

4.)"and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:"

I think I've clearly shown just how much of "newb" I am with this post. The pot shalt not call the kettle black.

 

Razephon

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 267

2/08/09 9:06:04 PM#32

Lol i was waiting for one of these threads to start on mmorpg.com

Sadly though the term Vaporware is a bit extreme and it will be turned into something like on DF forums. :(

This thread needs no more attention.

Cynthe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/06
Posts: 1379

Dreamer, dream me a gift.

2/08/09 9:22:11 PM#33
Originally posted by Leonidus0

I think I've clearly shown just how much of "newb" I am with this post.

 

 

Yes, yes you have.

(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
~ Dream Bytes Blog & Vlog ~ Gamer DNA ~

Rhadoc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 40

2/09/09 4:52:10 AM#34

People should be banned for trolling imo!

Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 4929

2/09/09 3:56:40 PM#35
Originally posted by Leonidus0
Originally posted by dirtyklingon

i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them.

 

if the game was vapourware it would not have come out in korea already, there would be retarded release dates a la darkfall, and the game wouldn't have been announced relatively recently.

i am as impatient as anyone for this game to be released in north america, but at leasty i can rest assured that the devs are being honest about it's development. i'd rather have no release date then a false one.

 

and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s.

and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:

duke nukem forever - announced in what? 1998? still in development.

darkfall - how many missed release dates, an iron handed nda, and the leaked video show a game with graphics, animations, mechanics and ui that have been outdated for 10 years.

 

 

 

I'll point out how many times you are blatantly contradicting and wrong:

1.)" i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. "

Yet here you are responding.. laff?

2.)"aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them."

 Actually, it's not. See www.aionsource.com/forum/graveyard/11305-ncsoft-revised-overseas-roll-out-plan-aion.html. This is a recent thread discussing the derailment of the U.S. release date. What's that sound? It's the sound of you slapping yourself in the forehead. Oh, and you don't truly know that "when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them." That's a load of crock that you can't back up.

3.)"and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s."

I don't even why you're stating this. I never once said that there was anything wrong with not having forums on the official site. What's wrong is that they have no forums AND no updates to keep us on track with the progress of the game.

4.)"and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:"

I think I've clearly shown just how much of "newb" I am with this post. The pot shalt not call the kettle black.

 


 

Here you go Leonidus:

http://www.aiononline.com/us/community/development_team/meet_liv.html

 

Here is the new announcement of the U.S. Aion Community manager for the vaporware game.

We are excited to have Lani on board and we know she's just as excited to get to know the Aion community. Please join us in giving her a warm welcome.

If you'd like to ask Lani a question, feel free to email her at liv@ncsoft.com.

DevilXaphan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 757

2/09/09 4:14:00 PM#36
Originally posted by Leonidus0
Originally posted by dirtyklingon

i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them.

 

if the game was vapourware it would not have come out in korea already, there would be retarded release dates a la darkfall, and the game wouldn't have been announced relatively recently.

i am as impatient as anyone for this game to be released in north america, but at leasty i can rest assured that the devs are being honest about it's development. i'd rather have no release date then a false one.

 

and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s.

and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:

duke nukem forever - announced in what? 1998? still in development.

darkfall - how many missed release dates, an iron handed nda, and the leaked video show a game with graphics, animations, mechanics and ui that have been outdated for 10 years.

 

 

 

I'll point out how many times you are blatantly contradicting and wrong:

1.)" i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. "

Yet here you are responding.. laff?

2.)"aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them."

 Actually, it's not. See www.aionsource.com/forum/graveyard/11305-ncsoft-revised-overseas-roll-out-plan-aion.html. This is a recent thread discussing the derailment of the U.S. release date. What's that sound? It's the sound of you slapping yourself in the forehead. Oh, and you don't truly know that "when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them." That's a load of crock that you can't back up.

3.)"and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s."

I don't even why you're stating this. I never once said that there was anything wrong with not having forums on the official site. What's wrong is that they have no forums AND no updates to keep us on track with the progress of the game.

4.)"and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:"

I think I've clearly shown just how much of "newb" I am with this post. The pot shalt not call the kettle black.

 

Wow..did you even read the thread. No where dis NCWest or East ever set or say a release date was pending or set. All that was ever said that NCSoft will release Aion in 2009.


Currently playing: Aion
Played: L2 RFO EvE R.O.S.E EQ2 HellGate:London TRIBES2 WOW WarHammer

Wakygreek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 673

Patience is a virtue, reason a necessity

2/09/09 5:27:03 PM#37
Originally posted by Leonidus0

There's been no news of the U.S. release date. Speculation sets it around the beginning of '09 but no news have come out of the mouths of any developers or staffs. Sure, it's doing fine in Asia but who says it has to be released at all in the U.S.? They are fine with the profits in Korea and China alone, so delaying the release for the U.S. for an indefinite time is not that farfetched.

 

Please look for an alternative now and not be dissapointed when one, two, four, eight months pass by with no news of Aion's release. It is U.S. vaporware.


 

First i enjoyed reading this thread, however I want to post this first off,

"Vaporware
One entry found.


Main Entry: va·por·ware
Pronunciation: \?v?-p?r-?wer\
Function: noun
Date: 1984
: a computer-related product that has been widely advertised but has not and may never become available "

Now I want Aion to release, so I hope it does. As far as it being vaporware, call it whatever you want however to stick to that term in your thread OP is incorrect. And please dont try to say anything more than you were wrong and are sorry period. As far as it releasing in the US you may be correct, it has not been released yet...however according to NCSOFT the time for its release isnt upon us yet. So untill 2009 passes completely i suggest you keep your negative trolling to yourself. Thank you have a great day!

P.S. If you think its not going to launch in the USA thats your problem. I for one think it will and so do many other people. If it doesnt oh well? I will just pick up another game or stay with WoW currently. However to state that they wont release because they are making enough money is particularly stupid, and you my friend need to either attend college or open your eyes to how the world works.  Have a great day.

Will Aion Launch in US/EU?

Yes (I think so)
No (I dont think so)
Maybe (we will wait and see)
Other (please post)
(login to vote)

Ayase

Aion Community Coordinator

Joined: 9/01/04
Posts: 117

2/09/09 5:37:24 PM#38

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 

---
Sebastian Streiffert
Community Representative - Aion

Follow my twitter! aion_ayase
* In order to cover my back, things I write are of course subject to change.

gFiz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 109

2/09/09 5:41:20 PM#39
Originally posted by Ayase

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 

 

and there you go...OP owned.  I for one haven't been this excited about a game in a long while.

.

.

.

 Ummm...unless...Ayase, you don't go by another name "Tasos" do you?  

mrroboto40

Elite Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 582

2/09/09 5:47:31 PM#40
Originally posted by Leonidus0
Originally posted by dirtyklingon

i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them.

 

if the game was vapourware it would not have come out in korea already, there would be retarded release dates a la darkfall, and the game wouldn't have been announced relatively recently.

i am as impatient as anyone for this game to be released in north america, but at leasty i can rest assured that the devs are being honest about it's development. i'd rather have no release date then a false one.

 

and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s.

and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:

duke nukem forever - announced in what? 1998? still in development.

darkfall - how many missed release dates, an iron handed nda, and the leaked video show a game with graphics, animations, mechanics and ui that have been outdated for 10 years.

 

 

 

I'll point out how many times you are blatantly contradicting and wrong:

1.)" i wonder why people bother responding to these troll threads. "

Yet here you are responding.. laff?

2.)"aion's development cycle is on track according to what the dev's have said. when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them."

 Actually, it's not. See www.aionsource.com/forum/graveyard/11305-ncsoft-revised-overseas-roll-out-plan-aion.html. This is a recent thread discussing the derailment of the U.S. release date. What's that sound? It's the sound of you slapping yourself in the forehead. Oh, and you don't truly know that "when they've set release dates for the game they've lived up to them." That's a load of crock that you can't back up.

3.)"and aion wouldn't be the first game to not have forums on it's offical website even after launch, though given ncsoft's track record, we'll probably see an official forum around the same time that we start seeing preview events in the u.s."

I don't even why you're stating this. I never once said that there was anything wrong with not having forums on the official site. What's wrong is that they have no forums AND no updates to keep us on track with the progress of the game.

4.)"and because you're a newb i'll reiterate some examples of vapourware:"

I think I've clearly shown just how much of "newb" I am with this post. The pot shalt not call the kettle black.

 

 

The thread that you posted is completely irrelevant by even your own standards.

NCSoft's own Community Coordinator had even posted "I know some of you are going to hate my answer to the underlying question, but it still applies and it will apply until the end of days (okay, God forbid, but you get the point). There have been journalists speculating, retailers speculating, community members speculating. Heck -- we were even speculating ourselves a couple of years ago -- something that will not be repeated I might add, hence why we wait until the time is right for announcements to be made. Until our website, or me, or Liv, or Atreid, or Amboss, or an Aion producer from NCsoft West gives a release date, it will not be official."

Which is basically the same argument you've had against speculation of a May release.

And actually, you should think as to why they have recently hired a community manager? Is it because perhaps they will be release forums soon? Or perhaps preparing for the upcomming previews? If they just hired a new Community Manager (which they did - specifically for this game), then how could any argument against this game be plausible. You fail epically, no company (especially NCSoft, the victims of the Worlds law suit) would hire a position for a game that's never comming out.

First your argument is that it will never come out, and now you've changed your mind, and in fact proven that you do believe that it will come out by linking the thread on the forums.

As for the updates, they seem to be bi-monthly, and with all the updates and information they post on fansites, it's enough to keep me happy, as well as everyone except for yourself.

 

You really have no argument or evidence to show this game is not comming out, infact the abundance of evidence is against you, "newb".

 

-boto.

alyndale

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 641

There is nothing you can say that hasn''t been said...
John Lennon, 1967

2/09/09 9:57:12 PM#41
Originally posted by Leonidus0

There's been no news of the U.S. release date. Speculation sets it around the beginning of '09 but no news have come out of the mouths of any developers or staffs. Sure, it's doing fine in Asia but who says it has to be released at all in the U.S.? They are fine with the profits in Korea and China alone, so delaying the release for the U.S. for an indefinite time is not that farfetched.

 

Please look for an alternative now and not be dissapointed when one, two, four, eight months pass by with no news of Aion's release. It is U.S. vaporware.

Greetings Leonidus!

My guess about Aion is this.  NCSoft basically did the same thing with Lineage 2 back in 2004.  It originally released in late 2003 in Korea and other Asian markets.  In North America NCSoft released an open beta in March of 2004 with the grand opening of North America and Europe in April of 2004, as I recall.

Therefore, my hunch is that NCSoft may very well release Aion sometime in late spring of 2009, maybe April or May, with May being my guess. I see this as some kind of five year anniversery of NCSoft having games released in North America. L 2 was, by far one of the best games of 2004 when it released.

So, be patient and take heart, Aion will release in this country.  Even though our economy is in need of a transfusion we still make up a large portion of video profits worldwide.

Leonidus0

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 54

 
2/09/09 10:30:32 PM#42
Originally posted by Ayase

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 

 

Again, a regurgitated line. Ayase, with all do respect, you and I both know that 2009 has been beaten to death. Leave the poor horse alone! Now, unless you can come up with a more specific time interval, I will cast this off as nothing more than an obligation on your part to post something because it requires you to do so.

I don't believe that this is the end of the story, either. However, if you are talking about the end of Aion being released anywhere else, then I agree with you. If "end of story *wink*" is your own way of telling us that Aion will not be released in the U.S. then my point remains: Aion is U.S. vaporware.

Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 4929

2/09/09 10:37:42 PM#43
Originally posted by Leonidus0
Originally posted by Ayase

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 

 

Again, a regurgitated line. Ayase, with all do respect, you and I both know that 2009 has been beaten to death. Leave the poor horse alone! Now, unless you can come up with a more specific time interval, I will cast this off as nothing more than an obligation on your part to post something because it requires you to do so.

I don't believe that this is the end of the story, either. However, if you are talking about the end of Aion being released anywhere else, then I agree with you. If "end of story *wink*" is your own way of telling us that Aion will not be released in the U.S. then my point remains: Aion is U.S. vaporware.


 

wow man. You have issues.

Barring the end of the world or the entire company going bankrupt you have Ayase coming to tell you that it is coming to the U.S./E.U. market. On top of that there is a new U.S. community cooridinator.

 

toddze

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 982

2/09/09 10:42:30 PM#44
Originally posted by Leonidus0
Originally posted by Ayase

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 

 

Again, a regurgitated line. Ayase, with all do respect, you and I both know that 2009 has been beaten to death. Leave the poor horse alone! Now, unless you can come up with a more specific time interval, I will cast this off as nothing more than an obligation on your part to post something because it requires you to do so.

I don't believe that this is the end of the story, either. However, if you are talking about the end of Aion being released anywhere else, then I agree with you. If "end of story *wink*" is your own way of telling us that Aion will not be released in the U.S. then my point remains: Aion is U.S. vaporware.

I give you an A for making a strong effort to keep your trolling alive. If you do not think its going to release in the US great thats your opinion reguardless of how radical it is. But you can not convience the rest of us that it wont release in 09 without some hard proof, not just off your speculation. So continue amusing us.

 

Waiting for: Final Fantasy XIV
Now Playing: COD4:MW2 (bye bye stars)
Worst MMO: Age of Conan
Favorite MMO: FFXI

Cynthe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/06
Posts: 1379

Dreamer, dream me a gift.

2/10/09 10:26:33 AM#45
Originally posted by Leonidus0

Aion is U.S. vaporware.

 

Have we not learned our lesson? Quit using words you don't understand.

 

(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
~ Dream Bytes Blog & Vlog ~ Gamer DNA ~

maxnrosy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/03/04
Posts: 604

I am a Liar. Do you believe me?

2/11/09 9:42:40 AM#46

This troll does love to get pwned.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/forums/thread/222025/Darkfall-One-of-the-most-controversial-games-in-history-and-its-no-wonder-being-led-by-Mr-Tasos-Flambouras-with-skills-maxxed-in-deciet-dishonesty-and-misleading-comments-about-the-state-of-the-game.html
 

here is a perfect example of vaporware.

 

Btw stop trying to invent new words like.... u.s. vapoware  saying such things makes you look very Mcquaidish.

Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.

Everith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 427

2/11/09 10:10:41 AM#47
Originally posted by Ayase

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 


 

Wow. This is an extreme case of OP SLAP. I have no doubt Aion will relese. How many games have never come to fruition? Gods and heroes... dark and light... can't remember many more. This game is being produced by an amazing company with a fantastic track record (no fanboyism intended). Not to mention it's been seen/shown/played by hundreds of western players at game show and other live events.

THEN in the midst of the op questioning the existance of the game comming to US Ayase comes in and says "Nope you're wrong" to the op. FANTASTIC it's like you said "Bread will never exist" And then a loaf of it just walked up and smacked you in the face with 100 little baby hotdog buns.

teddyboy420

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 263

Blessed are the forgetful, for they get the better even of their blunders

2/11/09 10:19:54 AM#48
Originally posted by Everith
Originally posted by Ayase

2009 has been our aim for quite a while now and I'm very confident that we'll get Aion out for you this year. While we have decided to not specify a date until a little bit closer up, the game has greatly superseded any competition in Korea and is definitely coming to the EU/US.

End of story. ;)

 


 THEN in the midst of the op questioning the existance of the game comming to US Ayase comes in and says "Nope you're wrong" to the op. FANTASTIC it's like you said "Bread will never exist" And then a loaf of it just walked up and smacked you in the face with 100 little baby hotdog buns.

 

ROFL. That, sir, is an extremely kick-ass analogy

You win.

That is all

Cynthe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/06
Posts: 1379

Dreamer, dream me a gift.

2/11/09 8:57:21 PM#49
Originally posted by maxnrosy

 

Btw stop trying to invent new words like.... u.s. vapoware  saying such things makes you look very Mcquaidish.

 

I has a vision. No wait. It was just fog in my specs.

:D

Major laughs at the baby hot dog bun analogy up there too. Nice.

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Calind0r

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/08
Posts: 516

2/11/09 9:23:26 PM#50

It may be OP slap, but its still ridiculous. It went from a global relese, to a few months back, now even up to a year apart. Lineage 2 had no plans of a global release, and Aion is approaching already how far behind L2 NA is from L2 Korea....I don't buy it takes time to translate, or development issues...Internal NCsoft problems you can't mention are likely to blame.

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