Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I don't know why prostitution isn't legal.  It's their bodies, their money, let them do what they want with them.  Pornography is legal (as it should be), and that is just paying two people to have sex.

It is illegal because too many people believe that the government owns you, body, mind and soul.

We can see this in the marijuana thread you started. People simply do not believe in the principle of self-ownership, on the left or the right -- when we give that up, eventually we give up everything we hold dear.

This is how prostitution became illegal, drugs, alcohol (now repealed). It is also how one can accept socialized medicine (government ownership of your body) and socialized education (government ownership of your mind).

On the left and the right -- both are hungrily grabbing what freedom we have left. That being said, once we as a people gave up on the idea that you own yourself and your property, we essentially gave up all rights to anything. It's only a matter of time until and unless we realize and fight for the principle that the state does not own you.

I was thinking about this the other day, Fisher, after our discussion on the idea of legalizing drugs and it made me think back to the founding of the United States.  Now they didn't have to deal with the problem of rampant drug use back then (at least not nearly on the scale that it exists today), but they certainly did have prostitution.  And as far as I know, it has been illegal since the United States became a sovereign country.  Now it is decided on a state by state basis and it is legel in Nevada, New Jersey and Rhode Island in limited circumstances, but by and large prostitution has been mostly illegal since the days of the American Revolution.  Although it was not enforced that well in the 19th century when law enforcement agencies were pretty weak.

But, since it has been illegal from the first days of the Independence, that means that even the founding fathers believed in the limitation of some personal freedoms.  And they were fighting against tyranny.  They also established the most free society in the world.  The founding fathers certainly were not perfect, but they did virtually a miraculous job in forming a nation.

Also, areas where widespread drug use and prostitution exist commonly become breeding grounds for other crimes.  For example, The Netherlands has a serious problem with the trafficking of women for the purposes of prostitution.  So I understand your point about total individual freedoms, but there is no perfect solution.  I think if we loosened the laws on some individual restrictions, it would probably expose society to a whole host of other problems.  And if that's true, once the genie is released from the bottle, it's all but impossible to put him back.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I don't know why prostitution isn't legal.  It's their bodies, their money, let them do what they want with them.  Pornography is legal (as it should be), and that is just paying two people to have sex.

It is illegal because too many people believe that the government owns you, body, mind and soul.

We can see this in the marijuana thread you started. People simply do not believe in the principle of self-ownership, on the left or the right -- when we give that up, eventually we give up everything we hold dear.

This is how prostitution became illegal, drugs, alcohol (now repealed). It is also how one can accept socialized medicine (government ownership of your body) and socialized education (government ownership of your mind).

On the left and the right -- both are hungrily grabbing what freedom we have left. That being said, once we as a people gave up on the idea that you own yourself and your property, we essentially gave up all rights to anything. It's only a matter of time until and unless we realize and fight for the principle that the state does not own you.

 

I was thinking about this the other day, Fisher, after our discussion on the idea of legalizing drugs and it made me think back to the founding of the United States.  Now they didn't have to deal with the problem of rampant drug use back then (at least not nearly on the scale that it exists today), but they certainly did have prostitution.  And as far as I know, it has been illegal since the United States became a sovereign country.  Now it is decided on a state by state basis and it is legel in Nevada, New Jersey and Rhode Island in limited circumstances, but by and large prostitution has been mostly illegal since the days of the American Revolution.  Although it was not enforced that well in the 19th century when law enforcement agencies were pretty weak.

But, since it has been illegal from the first days of the Independence, that means that even the founding fathers believed in the limitation of some personal freedoms.  And they were fighting against tyranny.  They also established the most free society in the world.  The founding fathers certainly were not perfect, but they did virtually a miraculous job in forming a nation.

Also, areas where widespread drug use and prostitution exist commonly become breeding grounds for other crimes.  For example, The Netherlands has a serious problem with the trafficking of women for the purposes of prostitution.  So I understand your point about total individual freedoms, but there is no perfect solution.  I think if we loosened the laws on some individual restrictions, it would probably expose society to a whole host of other problems.  And if that's true, once the genie is released from the bottle, it's all but impossible to put him back.

The problem is, the Netherlands is already a socalist society -- they have long since given up freedom as a principle -- so to free up vice and not have property rights is completely backwards.

In America, the founders were inconsistent in their approach to freedom -- they allowed slavery and made vice illegal.

I call for greater consistency in all areas. Look at human rights, look at where they come from, and act accordingly. That means, no socialism and no vice laws.

I would rather have people committing the crimes than my government.

ALL freedom creates problems. The purpose of government is to protect human rights, not to solve problems.

So an unamed person who may or may not have some position in the Obama administration apparently has these (totally unsourced and unreferenced) opinions.

Yeah, this isn't a baseless smear.  I believe you.  

Fear-mongering: 6/10 (needs more terrorists)

Rational Debate -1/10

I  didn't know Ruth was like that. However her legal views may be viable, it IS her ob to question and review all laws. However, I am strongly against prostitution.