I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much?

I do.

Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets.

How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much?

I do.

Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets.

How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?

Yes they did

Your post pretty much explains it. I guess this is the 'reap what you sew' aspect.

The fans were like Darkfall pague carrying locusts, they would fly from forum to forum spreading the plague while destroying those games forums. Interests were piqued, so some people followed them back to their holy land. Others were annoyed and set out to exact revenge.

I originally went to the DFO forums after having "Its UO 2!" constantly pounded into my mind. Fast forward several years and here I am. Though in that nearly a decades time I watched many games rise in hype and fall flat on promises. I learned the warning signs of BS.

Now I am here to counter blind faith with reason and occassional bad jokes.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much?

I do.

Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets.

How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?

I do not agree with you. This crap has been going on at this site since it began. Fans of one game go into another game's forum and bash them. Your arguement is the same as lawyers saying a girl asked to get raped by wearing certain clothing. People have been hyping and bashing games long before darkfall was announced. Welcome to mmorpg.com.
 

Cheers!

In short, yes.

But, real 'trolls' are actually very rare.

/newthread "OMG this game suxxor!" /endpost is a troll.

/newthread "Is the Darkfall world too big? - the Darkfall world is so many times bigger than WoW - yet will have less players - so it may seem barren and lifeless..." is NOT a troll.
It is a conversation starter.  It includes points for discussion and comparison.

Yet the Fanbois scream "TROLL!"

So 'trolling' is imagined - where there was none.

Originally posted by Gyrus

In short, yes.

 

But, real 'trolls' are actually very rare.

/newthread "OMG this game suxxor!" /endpost is a troll.

/newthread "Is the Darkfall world too big? - the Darkfall world is so many times bigger than WoW - yet will have less players - so it may seem barren and lifeless..." is NOT a troll.
It is a conversation starter.  It includes points for discussion and comparison.

Yet the Fanbois scream "TROLL!"

So 'trolling' is imagined - where there was none.

That is why I "quoted" the word "trolling". Real trolling is rare, but instead the word gets thrown around to anyone that doesn't agree with someone else. Sad really.

Yes, that and Tasos BS.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much?

I do.

Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets.

How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?

Without a doubt it is because of the fans.

1) They are just to easy to get rialed up. Not so much now because the majority have been silenced or jumped ship but a few months ago they were out in full force.

2) They didnt stay in the DF Forums. One example that I am familiar with because Aion is a game I am following, but the DF fans would go in and bash Aion as korean grinder, theme park carebare game. They would ask why were interested in that type of game when DF a hardcore sandbox pvp game is coming out soon (lol).

Those are just a couple reasons the fans bring it on themselves. The list could go on and on.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Gyrus

In short, yes.

 

But, real 'trolls' are actually very rare.

/newthread "OMG this game suxxor!" /endpost is a troll.

/newthread "Is the Darkfall world too big? - the Darkfall world is so many times bigger than WoW - yet will have less players - so it may seem barren and lifeless..." is NOT a troll.
It is a conversation starter.  It includes points for discussion and comparison.

Yet the Fanbois scream "TROLL!"

So 'trolling' is imagined - where there was none.

 

That is why I "quoted" the word "trolling". Real trolling is rare, but instead the word gets thrown around to anyone that doesn't agree with someone else. Sad really.

Aye

Whats funny though is now you have fans calling other fans trolls, even when they didnt say anything to warrent it.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Gyrus

In short, yes.

 

But, real 'trolls' are actually very rare.

/newthread "OMG this game suxxor!" /endpost is a troll.

/newthread "Is the Darkfall world too big? - the Darkfall world is so many times bigger than WoW - yet will have less players - so it may seem barren and lifeless..." is NOT a troll.
It is a conversation starter.  It includes points for discussion and comparison.

Yet the Fanbois scream "TROLL!"

So 'trolling' is imagined - where there was none.

 

That is why I "quoted" the word "trolling". Real trolling is rare, but instead the word gets thrown around to anyone that doesn't agree with someone else. Sad really.

Yes.

And the REPORT feature on this forum was being abused too I think?
But, looking at it today, it seems the Moderators here are working to preserve discussion by editing posts rather than locking threads.

A win for constructive discussions.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much?

I do.

Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets.

How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?

 

Without a doubt it is because of the fans.

1) They are just to easy to get rialed up. Not so much now because the majority have been silenced or jumped ship but a few months ago they were out in full force.

2) They didnt stay in the DF Forums. One example that I am familiar with because Aion is a game I am following, but the DF fans would go in and bash Aion as korean grinder, theme park carebare game. They would ask why were interested in that type of game when DF a hardcore sandbox pvp game is coming out soon (lol).

Those are just a couple reasons the fans bring it on themselves. The list could go on and on.

Exactly

2002, Anarchy Online forums: "DF is 100 times better than the PvP in this game and its all skill based, not level based like this POS" posts aplenty. Even the AO fansite forums got nailed with them.

Same was seen in EQ, EQ2, WoW fan forums before the game even released, SWG, etc.

Basicly whatever you do you always bring crap on yourself at any point where you are thinking beyond "Am I having fun right now?". Sucks to be the Fanbois, sucks worse to be the Trolls.

Partly, many fans like Darkfall and troll other forums but there are a lot of people here who bashes every new game too.

Just ignore the trolls... We seen the same thing at the launch of WAR and AoC, and we will see it again with upcomming launches too.

Originally posted by Loke666

....

Just ignore the trolls... We seen the same thing at the launch of WAR and AoC, and we will see it again with upcomming launches too.

IIRC the people who questioned whether the Siege Warfare was 'turned on' were labeled "trolls" in AoC?

People were labeled"troll" by WAR Fanbois for questioning Population Balance?

So... were these people "trolling" or raising valid concerns?
And since they were proven 'right'... are they still trolls?

Tasos is only adding fuel to the fire everytime he lies.

Originally posted by Briansho

Tasos is only adding fuel to the fire everytime he lies.

Get over yourself man.  You post here everyday crying about how Tasos lied.   We get it, Tasos promised to get you a new bicycle for Christmas and instead you got My Little Pony.  

Did you ever play Everquest 1 at release?  Go turn over the box the original EQ1 came in, you'll see on the back of the box it says the game has 5 continents.  The game only had 3 continents at release and did not have 5 until 2 expansions packs later.    Surely, that game must have bombed because they misrepresented themselves on the box.

The problem with the fanbois boils down to the fear ONE word:  VAPORWARE

Don't worry, I'm not calling out the DFO fanbois on this one alone.  A lot of fanbois see the word VAPORWARE and panic.  They all come a running with their tin foil hats on to defend their game from the troll and his sword of total uberness, the dreaded VAPORWARE word.  No fanbois in their right mind will accept that word because they fail to educate themselves on what VAPORWARE is.

So fanbois, let's take you to school one more time on what VAPORWARE is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

I think once the fanbois get educated about the word VAPORWARE and realize it isn't the void of nothingness they think "trolls" are trying to cast their game into, a lot of the problems on MMORPG.com would disappear.

So to the fanbois everywhere, please, do not fear the word VAPORWARE.  All it means is that it has failed to release yet.  So calm down and stop thinking that those of us that use the word VAPORWARE are trolls.  We are not.  We are MMORPG fans just like you who happen to know the definition of the word VAPORWARE.

 The original troll posts, back when this all started, was actually generated by Funcom and its fanboys. 

What most people will scoff at and choose not to believe, the first vaportroll was actually a Funcom employee.

He went around to various forums calling Darkfall vaporware. He even made an account on the Darkfall forums and did it there, which was a mistake. Brannoc, the forums moderator, tracked the IP back to the Funcom offices. Poor sucker had to make a public apology. 

Anyway, at this point in time, I think I was on the Age of Conan boards, back when that game still had a chance of not being terrible (that changed after 2006). Everyone on the Funcom boards started to go "lol vaporware" every time Darkfall was mentioned (including me) just because thats what "everyone else" (developer we talked about earlier) said. 

So here, the vaporware fanboys were born. Then it became more widespread across multiple forums as the spam exponetially multiplied. Around this time I said "Hmm, I wonder what Darkfall is". I started a thread on the Age of Conan boards asking such and got 4 pages of "It's vaporware" with no elaboration. So I looked it up, and realized... it wasn't vaporware, and all these good people at the Funcom boards had something a little wrong with them. 

The vaportrolls multiplied over the years, many firmly believing the game to be a hoax and that the company didn't even exist. 17 minute video came out, they said it was fake, pre rendered. Partnership between Audio Visual and Aventurine was announced, and people said that it wasn't an official agreement or that Audio Visual was a fake company. 30 minute video was filmed with a handheld camera, and they claimed that no one was actually playing the game, it was just a pre set up video. Beta went live and they claimed that it didn't exist and that no one was actually in beta. The website got DDOS and people said that they were lying about it. 

Over 3-4 years of this kind of crap, you can tell why some fanboys became rabid. The sheer stupidity involved in these kinds of ramblings would drive most people mad. 

Also, I'd like to know just how Tasos lied to so many people. Unless there's some big lies he's thrown out that I am unaware of?

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much?

I do.

That's nothing new, though. Right now, it's Darkfall. A few months ago, it was AoC and WAR. Before that, it was Vanguard.

As long as you have overly enthusiastic fans going around to other game boards and boasting about how their game is so much more hardcore and real than whatever game is being talked about, and how fans of that game are just a bunch of carebears who want to be spoonfed everything and can't handle a "real" MMO, you're going to have some people who take it personally and flame back.

Then there are the people who raise valid concerns about a game or the developers and get treated just like the people who mindlessly flame a game. That's a whole other thing entirely.

The problem is, some folks are so passionate for Darkfall that they've started to equate ANY questions about Aventurine, or the game, or anything that isn't 100% positive and enthusiastic as trolling. It's not.

I guess the problem is that we have Aventurine making claims that they've been able to do with a team of 30 developers what the big dogs like Blizzard, EA, SoE, Bioware, Turbine, Funcom, or no one else has been able to do.  For example, when you have Tasos claiming they can do 200 vs 200 battles with everyone maintaining 30-60 FPS, that is extremely hard to believe.  Then at the last minute they decide that sorry, no there will be no try before you and we will be taking pre-orders after all after they've been saying these things for years, it makes a person wonder exactly what else isn't true anymore.  People are not trolls, they just want updated information and unfortunately, keeping the public updated with current information just isn't a corporate policy for Aventurine.  It's taken me eight long years to realize this fact, but I have to live with it.

Originally posted by Shannia

I guess the problem is that we have Aventurine making claims that they've been able to do with a team of 30 developers what the high guys like Blizzard, EA, SoE, Bioware, Turbine, Funcom, or no one else has been able to do.  For example, when you have Tasos claiming they can do 200 vs 200 battles with everyone maintaining 30-60 FPS, that is extremely hard to believe.  Then at the last minute they decide that sorry, no there will be no try before you and we will be taking pre-orders after all after they've been saying these things for years, it makes a person wonder exactly what else isn't true anymore.  People are not trolls, they just want updated information and unfortunately, keeping the public updated with current information just isn't a corporate policy for Aventurine.  It's taken me eight long years to realize this fact, but I have to live with it.

 

The things Aventurine are doing are things that games from 2001 have been able to pull off. Funcom, Blizzard, Turbine, don't WANT to make this kind of game, because the money is making cheap EQ/WoW clones. Go back to 2001 to Dark Age of Camelot. It had about 8 siege engines, boiling oil, siege towers, naval combat, destructable keeps, 500 man battles. Tech has come a long way since then, but no one bothers to make games like that. 

Saying it isn't possible because Blizzard hasn't done it is just plain stupid. There are no claims Darkfall has  made that are outlandish. 

When you have people claiming that the DDOS attack on Aventurine was fabricated to cover up the fact that the game doesn't exist, yeah, those are trolls. 

Originally posted by SignusM

There are no claims Darkfall has  made that are outlandish.

O rly?

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/news/read/12400/Interview-with-Tasos-Flambouras.html

MMORPG.com: Can you tell us, as of the answering of this Q&A exactly where Darkfall stands in terms of nearness to being a launch-ready title?

Tasos Flambouras: Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time.

That was back in early December. If they could launch back then, and were more ready than anyone else at that stage, why the delays? Also, if the game is in that good of a shape, why keep the NDA up through now, three weeks from their current release date? Let everyone see it for themselves. Open up the servers to a real open beta, let the media in, and drop the NDA. Let the game speak for itself.

They haven't done that at all. It's natural to question Aventurine and their claims as a result.

Originally posted by SignusM

The things Aventurine are doing are things that games from 2001 have been able to pull off. Funcom, Blizzard, Turbine, don't WANT to make this kind of game, because the money is making cheap EQ/WoW clones. Go back to 2001 to Dark Age of Camelot. It had about 8 siege engines, boiling oil, siege towers, naval combat, destructable keeps, 500 man battles. Tech has come a long way since then, but no one bothers to make games like that. 

Saying it isn't possible because Blizzard hasn't done it is just plain stupid. There are no claims Darkfall has  made that are outlandish. 

 When you have people claiming that the DDOS attack on Aventurine was fabricated to cover up the fact that the game doesn't exist, yeah, those are trolls. 

 

I would not say that other companies didn't want to make this kind of game because they wanted to make a cheap game, although you probably realise this.  I would say that it was a matter of priorities, my guess would be that with current technology you cannot have some of these features and also have what other devs would consider an acceptable standard in other aspects of the game.  A lot of these features are obviously technically feasible, if the graphics were 2d or 3d vector graphics nobody would even question it, it's just a matter of how much you are willing to cut away from other game aspects in order to achive it.

Originally posted by SignusM

The things Aventurine are doing are things that games from 2001 have been able to pull off. Funcom, Blizzard, Turbine, don't WANT to make this kind of game, because the money is making cheap EQ/WoW clones. Go back to 2001 to Dark Age of Camelot. It had about 8 siege engines, boiling oil, siege towers, naval combat, destructable keeps, 500 man battles. Tech has come a long way since then, but no one bothers to make games like that. 

Saying it isn't possible because Blizzard hasn't done it is just plain stupid. There are no claims Darkfall has  made that are outlandish. 

 

When you have people claiming that the DDOS attack on Aventurine was fabricated to cover up the fact that the game doesn't exist, yeah, those are trolls. 

 

No it isn't possible with the current level of graphics games require to be sucessfull. People don't want games to look like they should be played on 800 x 600 mode. 500 man battles were huge impossible lagfests then and would be much worse now. There are claims Darkfall has made that they have not been able to deliver so far. They haven't bothered to correct those claims either on their webste.  That's a big WTF to people who don't read forums and are just now finding out about the game or haven't kept up withb it's progress. Someone needs to take Aventurine aside and tell them they have a problem that needs to be fixed. 

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by SignusM

There are no claims Darkfall has  made that are outlandish.

O rly?

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/news/read/12400/Interview-with-Tasos-Flambouras.html

MMORPG.com: Can you tell us, as of the answering of this Q&A exactly where Darkfall stands in terms of nearness to being a launch-ready title?

Tasos Flambouras: Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time.

That was back in early December. If they could launch back then, and were more ready than anyone else at that stage, why the delays? Also, if the game is in that good of a shape, why keep the NDA up through now, three weeks from their current release date? Let everyone see it for themselves. Open up the servers to a real open beta, let the media in, and drop the NDA. Let the game speak for itself.

They haven't done that at all. It's natural to question Aventurine and their claims as a result.

How is that untrue? It is far far FAR more stable than the past few MMO launch titles (Age of Conan and Vanguard). Rock solid servers, few bugs, rapid patching, yeah it could easily have launched in December. But oh wait, they want to take more time so that its as flawless as possible at launch? That's a BAD thing?

People have been saying Darkfall makes outlandish claims for years, considering that's from December, it doesn't really support the acusation too well. 

What a lot of people need to learn to pull apart, is fan hype and dev hype. You have Age of Conan, spending millions of dollars making pre rendered and scripted videos spammed on every website and forum you can imagine, promising features that STILL aren't in the game a year later. And then you have Aventurine, who tell you exactly whats going on, and then go back to work, with little to no advertising.