Originally posted by eburn

Should've seen the EQ2 community as it was dying and they had everyone giving nothing but props here to make it number one on the list. LoL 
It happens I guess. It's the crazy ex-girlfriend mentality.

Huh? I wouldn't say EQ2 "died". I still play and there is a decent population and a solid game.

Originally posted by Recant

So I checked the ratings on this site and according to the list, World of Warcraft is rated at around number 21 of all released MMORPGs.  Ouch.   Okay, so I play WoW, but my intention behind this post is not to tell you that you're wrong or voting badly, but merely to ask the following:

Do you honestly believe that there are 20 better  MMORPGs than WoW (or at least closely comparable)?  

If you are at all willing to answer, perhaps you would be inclined estimate how the following might rank WoW as well, I assume there are none around to ask directly:

a) Professional opinion -(what other game developers might think.)
b) Pseudo-professional opinion -(what games journalists might think.)
c) A typical PC-gamer's opinion - (what a person who might enjoy games such as Half-Life, Fallout 3, Red Alert 3, etc might think)
d) The 'Veteran' - what someone that has played more than a couple of MMORPGs for signfiicant periods of time might think.  Actually I think that includes most of us.
 

There's no rhetoric behind that question, if you really believe that that there are 20, or even 50 better MMORPGs, then that's fine with me. 

 

 You know, we can tell by your signature you have an agenda.

World of Warcraft is McDonalds.  It's easy to find (thanks to lots of advertising), it's easy to get into, and it's easy to get addicted to.

You, as a World of Warcraft fan, are the fat guy from Supersize me.  Congratulations.

The rankings are done by asking the members here about their opinions of the various aspects of a game.  They are not, a ranking of the games pesented "this is first, this is second" and so on.  So your first question "Do you honestly believe there are 20 games better than Warcraft?" is moot.

There are obviously 20 games better than warcraft when it comes to:

1. Graphics

2. Community

3. Roleplaying

4. Service

Since WoW is behind many games in half  of the attributes that they score on here, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it doesn't rank very high.

Enjoy your Big Mac.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 

 
You know.  Maybe it isn't all bitter former WoW players trashing the game.  You WoW defenders love to remind everyone that 10 million people play the game.  Lets not forget the roughly 6.75 Billion people who don't have a WoW subscription.  Maybe some of those guys are the ones who gave it a low rating. 

I have never had a WoW subscription, but my brother and a bunch of my friends do.,.. and I think the game sucks. If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics... I can say it isn't my cup of tea... and I can name 15 MMOs that are more compelling to me.

---

 

 

What 6.75 BILLION? Are you talking about billions of the world's population not liking Wow? Cause even if you are saying it is only 6.75 million accounts instead of 10 million...

Let's try it this way:

10.0 million subs
-6.75 million subs
---------------
= 3.25 million subs.

That's still over 3 million more subscriptions over the next competitor. So your point is... what, exactly?

And this part:

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris: I have never had a WoW subscription..... and I think the game sucks. If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics...

---

 

So you're saying, that if there was NO other reason Wow was bad (gameplay, price, support, maintainance, coding, etc) if ALL that was good, you'd STILL hate Wow because it has "piss poor graphics"? So the most important thing to you is your game must have great graphics, but that other stuff isn't that important?

 

Interesting.

Yep.. I meant billion.  I am saying that it isn't just bitter ex wow vets that have a poor opinion of the game.  There are also people who decided upon close inspection that it wasn't even worth their time.. like me.  I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

And no, graphics aren't the only thing that matter to me.  If they were, I'd be playing AOC.  But they are one of the factors I consider.  Anyone who says WoW's graphics are "top notch" by todays standards is either a liar or a fool.  The game may have looked good in it's time.  But times change, and they can only put so much lipstick on that pig.  You guys who blindly believe that WoW will just continue to grow and grow, while running 5,7,10 year old code are deluded.  No piece of software is immune to obselecence... not even World of Warcraft.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Yep.. I meant billion.  I am saying that it isn't just bitter ex wow vets that have a poor opinion of the game.  There are also people who decided upon close inspection that it wasn't even worth their time.. like me.  I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

And no, graphics aren't the only thing that matter to me.  If they were, I'd be playing AOC.  But they are one of the factors I consider.  Anyone who says WoW's graphics are "top notch" by todays standards is either a liar or a fool.  The game may have looked good in it's time.  But times change, and they can only put so much lipstick on that pig.  You guys who blindly believe that WoW will just continue to grow and grow, while running 5,7,10 year old code are deluded.  No piece of software is immune to obselecence... not even World of Warcraft.

The visuals of Wrath of the Lich King are fantastic.

Here , so I am liar and a fool to you.

But put on ALL options (shadowing etc...) in Wrath and you have fantastic visuals:-

- Flying over the lands you adventure in. You have flying personal carpets, helicopters, dragons, rockets to give an awesome view over forests, lakes, villages, mountains... and you can land everywhere

- MASSIVE battles these days give  100's of Alliance players against 100's of Horde players on the battlefield.

- And - I bet you don't even know - the latest gear has WAY up more pixels than you ever saw in Wow.

To top it all, we now have a full 3D armor site to look at your avatars off game.

http://www.3darmory.com/

So before commenting on graphics ----> inform you about the latest visual developments in WotLK

As visuals mean a LOT more than pixels/vectors you should study about the art of ... art before commenting.

In fact the visuals in a game like Wow are far more timeless than so called "realistic" visuals.

Have a look at the animated Beowulf. Hardly 3 year old, it is already looking VERY dated. Therefore the cartoon look of Warcraft is far more suited to stand the age of time.

Compare it to the animated Disney Classics of 70(!) years ago like Snow White and then go see a "realistic" movie from that time.

I bet most children would think the animated Snow White was made only a few years ago, while the "realistic" picture is dated the moment it is canned.

--------------

PS. This site is visited by a few hundred Wow haters, because they don't like the gigantic success this game has. Simple ast that. They don't represent ANYTHING, apart from a few frustrated kids who just have No idea what a good game design is all about.

History will tell that World of Warcraft was by far the best and most succesful MMORPG of the first decade of this century and it made the foundation of further evolution of on line games possible.

Reread that last sentence : no other mmorpg comes even close to that statement above unless you are "a liar and a fool".

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Yep.. I meant billion.  I am saying that it isn't just bitter ex wow vets that have a poor opinion of the game.  There are also people who decided upon close inspection that it wasn't even worth their time.. like me.  I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

And no, graphics aren't the only thing that matter to me.  If they were, I'd be playing AOC.  But they are one of the factors I consider.  Anyone who says WoW's graphics are "top notch" by todays standards is either a liar or a fool.  The game may have looked good in it's time.  But times change, and they can only put so much lipstick on that pig.  You guys who blindly believe that WoW will just continue to grow and grow, while running 5,7,10 year old code are deluded.  No piece of software is immune to obselecence... not even World of Warcraft.

 

The visuals of Wrath of the Lich King are fantastic.

Here , so I am liar and a fool to you.

But put on ALL options (shadowing etc...) in Wrath and you have fantastic visuals:-

Compared to Street fighter 2 yes, any new game out currently....... erm no.

- Flying over the lands you adventure in. You have flying personal carpets, helicopters, dragons, rockets to give an awesome view over forests, lakes, villages, mountains... and you can land everywhere

Your using this as an example to Impress people?

- MASSIVE battles these days give  100's of Alliance players against 100's of Horde players on the battlefield.

If there's no server crash,

- And - I bet you don't even know - the latest gear has WAY up more pixels than you ever saw in Wow.

64?

To top it all, we now have a full 3D armor site to look at your avatars off game.

And that's pretty meaningless

http://www.3darmory.com/

So before commenting on graphics ----> inform you about the latest visual developments in WotLK

As visuals mean a LOT more than pixels/vectors you should study about the art of ... art before commenting.

In fact the visuals in a game like Wow are far more timeless than so called "realistic" visuals.

Have a look at the animated Beowulf. Hardly 3 year old, it is already looking VERY dated. Therefore the cartoon look of Warcraft is far more suited to stand the age of time.

Compare it to the animated Disney Classics of 70(!) years ago like Snow White and then go see a "realistic" movie from that time.

I bet most children would think the animated Snow White was made only a few years ago, while the "realistic" picture is dated the moment it is canned.

Having studied art, your description as " Timeless" as if the game is the Mona Lisa, well heh heh, yeh ok. WoW is not timeless, it's certainly not a work of Art its a commercial success. Stand the age of time?  I doubt 500 years from now historians will read  the sacred chronicles of WoW, GET REAL.

--------------

PS. This site is visited by a few hundred Wow haters, because they don't like the gigantic success this game has. Simple ast that. They don't represent ANYTHING, apart from a few frustrated kids who just have No idea what a good game design is all about.

History will tell that World of Warcraft was by far the best and most succesful MMORPG of the first decade of this century and it made the foundation of further evolution of on line games possible.

Reread that last sentence : no other mmorpg comes even close to that statement above unless you are "a liar and a fool"

So? a new game claimes that every 4 years or so, thinking that makes you a special snowflake, is crazy.

 

 

All in all a good attempt as usual bodypass. Your strategy of putting multiple lies in a single thread is not bad, I went ahead and put some edits in there so others may understand it better.

Your pissing contest is boring. If you two want to stalk each other, at least do it in style.

Originally posted by Salvatoris 

I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

 

Using this type of logic is rather flawed.  If it were the case then nothing could possibly have any value unless the entire world engaged in it.

Also, isn't it pretty hard to have anything more than a passing opinion of something you have never played?  I'm just curious how your dislike of the graphical style and never actually having an account equates to the conclusion that a game sucks.  

The ranking of World of Warcraft on mmorpg.com versus the people who really like the game are clearly disproportionate.  Being on this website is like going over to your grandfather's house and having to listen to his opinion on everything because he will angrily insist he's right.  Sure grandpa, whatever you say...   Other things people love to hate:

1.) The President / government

2.) The media

3.) Our parents

4.) Our spouse

5.) Customer Service

6.) Banks

7.) The driver ahead of us

8.) Our boss / co-worker(s)

9.) Anyone who has something we want.

Originally posted by saint4God

The ranking of World of Warcraft on mmorpg.com versus the people who really like the game are clearly disproportionate.  

That is the answer right there.  If you put people in to two groups, people who play WoW and people who don't play WoW.  The second group is almost infinitely bigger.  The ignorance and arrogance that you WoW fanboys display is disgusting to me.  You guys really seem to believe that your opinion is somehow right, and everyone else's is wrong.  If someone claims not to like WoW, you assume they are lying.  News flash... everyone has a brain of their own, with thoughts of their own... and sometimes they differ from yours.  A lot of people just do not like World of Warcraft.. get over yourselves.  It's just a video game.  A video game that wasn't spectacular when it was new, and now it's really showing it's age... as video games always do.

There are almost 7 billion people on the planet.  Over a 1.5 BILLION of them are internet users.  A tiny percentage of those internet users play World of Warcraft.  So... why are you guys so surprised when you see people posting online that it isn't the greatest game ever made? 

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by saint4God

The ranking of World of Warcraft on mmorpg.com versus the people who really like the game are clearly disproportionate.  

 

That is the answer right there.  If you put people in to two groups, people who play WoW and people who don't play WoW.  The second group is almost infinitely bigger.  The ignorance and arrogance that you WoW fanboys display is disgusting to me.  You guys really seem to believe that your opinion is somehow right, and everyone else's is wrong.  If someone claims not to like WoW, you assume they are lying.  News flash... everyone has a brain of their own, with thoughts of their own... and sometimes they differ from yours.  A lot of people just do not like World of Warcraft.. get over yourselves.  It's just a video game.  A video game that wasn't spectacular when it was new, and now it's really showing it's age... as video games always do.

There are almost 7 billion people on the planet.  Over a 1.5 BILLION of them are internet users.  A tiny percentage of those internet users play World of Warcraft.  So... why are you guys so surprised when you see people posting online that it isn't the greatest game ever made? 

Then you have the two groups:  people who dislike WoW and people who do not dislike WoW.  The second group is infinitely bigger.  As such people who dislike WoW are a small minority.

The problem with either of those comparisons is that they lump the people who are neutral about the issue with  one side or the other.  Just because a lot of people are neutral about the issue it does not really say anything one way or another.  It just means that your approach to the problem is flawed.

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 
That is the answer right there.  If you put people in to two groups, people who play WoW and people who don't play WoW.  The second group is almost infinitely bigger.  The ignorance and arrogance that you WoW fanboys display is disgusting to me.  You guys really seem to believe that your opinion is somehow right, and everyone else's is wrong.  If someone claims not to like WoW, you assume they are lying.  News flash... everyone has a brain of their own, with thoughts of their own... and sometimes they differ from yours.  A lot of people just do not like World of Warcraft.. get over yourselves.  It's just a video game.  A video game that wasn't spectacular when it was new, and now it's really showing it's age... as video games always do.
There are almost 7 billion people on the planet.  Over a 1.5 BILLION of them are internet users.  A tiny percentage of those internet users play World of Warcraft.  So... why are you guys so surprised when you see people posting online that it isn't the greatest game ever made? 

---

Rankings on MMORPG.com mean nothing and I can't believe people who think they do overall and how it affects games. I have to agree with the above quote in regards to rank meanings and how they mean nothing.

Wow is the number one selling AND subscribed to MMO in history with millions of people all over the world. History. Ever. It had four versions of WoW in the Top20 PC games for the last two months straight. But on MMORPG.com, its the 21st popular game. Does that make sense? Nope.

Meanwhile, Warhammer Online won "Best New Game of the Year" and a ton of other awards in 2008, is one of the highest rating MMOs on MMORPG.com and a few other sites. Mythic just announced this week that Warhammer only has 300k current subscriptions combined between the NA and EU, that's all. They lost over 500 thousand subscriptions in four months, making them the one of the most fastest plunging MMOs in history. They had layoffs a few weeks ago and today, they announced more layoffs. This is a part of a source:

---

Using information corroborated by Massively.com sources, they're reporting that anywhere between 60 and 130 people have been let go from the company.

---

Again, WAR ranked higher than Wow here and other sites. But in the real world where money talks, bs walks, Wow is in the black and Warhammer is losing employees faster than Micheal Phelps can smoke a bong.

Rankings means squat on internet sites.

If you look at the actual review breakdown on this site for WoW, it's easy to see why it rated so far down the list.  It got good marks in almost every category, even getting a generous 8.5 for graphics.  The category that really drags it down is community.   So the worst thing about WoW is it's community?  I couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by saint4God

The ranking of World of Warcraft on mmorpg.com versus the people who really like the game are clearly disproportionate.  

 

That is the answer right there.  If you put people in to two groups, people who play WoW and people who don't play WoW.  The second group is almost infinitely bigger.  The ignorance and arrogance that you WoW fanboys display is disgusting to me.  You guys really seem to believe that your opinion is somehow right, and everyone else's is wrong.  If someone claims not to like WoW, you assume they are lying.  News flash... everyone has a brain of their own, with thoughts of their own... and sometimes they differ from yours.  A lot of people just do not like World of Warcraft.. get over yourselves.  It's just a video game.  A video game that wasn't spectacular when it was new, and now it's really showing it's age... as video games always do.

There are almost 7 billion people on the planet.  Over a 1.5 BILLION of them are internet users.  A tiny percentage of those internet users play World of Warcraft.  So... why are you guys so surprised when you see people posting online that it isn't the greatest game ever made? 

I think you are blending issues here and generalizing anyone who might choose to disagree with you.

The subject of this thread is how WoW rates so low on this website, not the entire world.  There are not 1.5 billion users posting here, let alone that many people who might have the slightest opinion of mmos in general. 

This website, for whatever reasons you choose to believe, is not representative of the actual mmo marketplace.  People are free to have opinions and post them here, but when it comes time to back those opinions up with subscription dollars there is a very large discrepancy between opinions here versus opinions backed by subscribing to game of choice. 

Originally posted by Salvatoris

If you look at the actual review breakdown on this site for WoW, it's easy to see why it rated so far down the list.  It got good marks in almost every category, even getting a generous 8.5 for graphics.  The category that really drags it down is community.   So the worst thing about WoW is it's community?  I couldn't agree more.

I find the community here awarding low scores to any mmo community to be filled with all manner of inconsistancies and hypocracy. 

Lulz @ the WoW fanboy.

im not a fan of wow...but i would rank it about 13-14 :/

  The lower WOW is rated on this site the lower the site`s credibility drops. This site has alot of real mmo gamers who dont like some of the things WOW has to offer and that is cool I understand. Alot of it how ever is completely stupid. For example alot of people will tell you either WAR,AOC or Guildwars is better than WOW. That is just stupid none of these games even come close.

  There is no mmo now or ever that is even in the same league as WOW. WOW is so far ahead of the curve I would even say no other game has ever even come close to being able to be compared to WOW. That being said I have gotten a bit tired of WOW after 4 years and I would rather play LOTRO. LOTRO is not better then WOW but I think there is some stuff in there that I would like to do more then the stuff in WOW.

  WOW is the best MMO ever created that is a fact! not an opinion. It works on almost everyones computer and it runs smoothly. It has style , it feels like a world and it is fun. To be simple WOW is a great game simply because it works.

Originally posted by Deadm0ney4u

...alot of people will tell you either WAR,AOC or Guildwars is better than WOW. That is just stupid none of these games even come close.

  There is no mmo now or ever that is even in the same league as WOW. WOW is so far ahead of the curve I would even say no other game has ever even come close to being able to be compared to WOW. That being said I have gotten a bit tired of WOW after 4 years and I would rather play LOTRO. LOTRO is not better then WOW but I think there is some stuff in there that I would like to do more then the stuff in WOW.

  WOW is the best MMO ever created that is a fact! not an opinion. It works on almost everyones computer and it runs smoothly. It has style , it feels like a world and it is fun. To be simple WOW is a great game simply because it works.

And that my friends, is why people hate the WoW community.  The inability to understand that "good' or 'bad' are subjective terms.  And an inability to see validity in any opposing viewpoint. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Salvatoris

If you look at the actual review breakdown on this site for WoW, it's easy to see why it rated so far down the list.  It got good marks in almost every category, even getting a generous 8.5 for graphics.  The category that really drags it down is community.   So the worst thing about WoW is it's community?  I couldn't agree more.

 

I find the community here awarding low scores to any mmo community to be filled with all manner of inconsistancies and hypocracy. 

I couldn't agree more.

MMORPG.com posters claiming WoW has a poor community? Pot, meet kettle.

Originally posted by Aethios

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Salvatoris

If you look at the actual review breakdown on this site for WoW, it's easy to see why it rated so far down the list.  It got good marks in almost every category, even getting a generous 8.5 for graphics.  The category that really drags it down is community.   So the worst thing about WoW is it's community?  I couldn't agree more.

 

I find the community here awarding low scores to any mmo community to be filled with all manner of inconsistancies and hypocracy. 

 

I couldn't agree more.

MMORPG.com posters claiming WoW has a poor community? Pot, meet kettle.

As long as we're throwing around clichés, "it takes one to know one". ":)

You may be accurate in your assessment of the community here, but it doesn't make their opinion of WoW's community any less valid.   I don't see how comparing the community of a website to the community of an MMO is any less accurate than comparing WoW to a Big Mac or Brittney Spears. :/