Wow. 300k is quite bad. I was expecting this game to maintain 500k.

So if im reading correctly, FFXI is the no. 2 MMO now? Then again they have azn subs as well. Would be interesting to find out their NA/EU pop.

AoC is probably below 150k subs now I would say.

Its quite shameful how both of these games have declined so badly. (WAR/AoC)

I had to reply even though I'm trying to avoid this but seeing all these people in this thread saying its a good thing forced me to. I'm guessing a few people are still drunk/high from last night :)

They sold close to a million copies and 3 months after launch their down to 30% of that number! Thats catastrophic, theres no other way to put it. And that 300k is from December 31st, which means it might have lowered some more.

I for one am extremely disapointed and depressed about this. I was hoping this game would have more than this so Mythic would have a strong enough revenue to improve it. I am one of those who didn't buy the game because it wasn't in a release state (in my opinion) but I expected that in 1-2 years it would be. Seeing those numbers though, I'm not counting on it.

Imagine your the head of EA and you see that your biggest MMO is already down by that much? Especially considering that your expectations were as such...

- Mark Jacobs wanted the #2 MMO and around 500k subs

- They sold 1.5 million units to retailers, which are now gathering dust

- They need at least 250k to Break even, as EA said. (To cover development cost and everything else)

This game is now officially a failure, not a big one, but a failure nonetheless. It looks like they'll barely break even and they didn't reach their number 2 spot, thats a bad thing even if you don't care and enjoy the game. EA is going to gut Mythics team in order to squeeze as much money from this game as they can now instead of trying to make it the best. Especially when you consider how bad their overall finances are, they can't take chances. Prepare to see smaller and smaller patch notes

I'm a sad panda

it's not over yet, as some wrote, WoW had as many subs after 3 months to.

If this was a sigleplayer game, would 1,5 mill sold copies be a failure? the diffrens now is that 300k people continue to pay up 15$ each month...

and the game haven't even launched in Asia or russia yet...

How many of those 1,5M?? even subbed one month?

I still paly this game and I like it, I'm saying it has no issues, it does...but so have every MMO I'v ever played.

I have one rank 40 and I'm now lvling up my second alt...it's still fun! :)

I think 300K is fine. The massive number of release boxes sold will have gone a long way towards development costs and as long as there's enough cash coming in to cover ongoing development (of which there is a lot) with a reasonable profit then everything is fine.

It is hardly surprising that any new mainstream MMO will sell a lot initially as people follow the hype and try it out. Last year we had a million trying AoC (myself included), then WAR, then a lot went back to WoW for the expansion. Subscriber percentage of initial sales isn't a great indicator of success in this market. Something like subscriber growth (or decline) after the initial hype has worn off would have more meaning.

Ultimately  the biggest effect on me is server population and balance. Mythic have really kept on top of this with server clones, population bonuses and free character transfers. Right now my server is a very busy place with some great rvr going on. The endgame is great which is always a problem for me in any MMO and with the exception of questing, the endgame starts at level 1 so it's not like you have to quest for weeks just to enjoy it.

Mythic are obviously pleased with this number of subscribers as they're actually re-investing the subs back in to new forums, not to mention the packed schedule of live events, new classes and live expansion.

Ogrelin:

World of Warcraft had over a million subs after 3 months and the only reason they didn't have more already was because they only printed 600k boxes at launch. Then they realised they didn't have enough servers and had to hire a lot more people before printing more copies. Thats not even considering the fact that the market was MUCH smaller back then than it is now.

Its not a single player game, it didn't only cost 20 millions to make. It cost a little bit south of 100 million according to Mark Jacobs. Plus the 1.5 million was to Retailers, roughly 1 million was sold to customers.

Originally posted by Razephon

Wow. 300k is quite bad. I was expecting this game to maintain 500k.

So if im reading correctly, FFXI is the no. 2 MMO now? Then again they have azn subs as well. Would be interesting to find out their NA/EU pop.

AoC is probably below 150k subs now I would say.

Its quite shameful how both of these games have declined so badly. (WAR/AoC)

I don't see how FF could be #2. Judging by Xfire numbers for the last 24 hours:

WoW- 95 k users

LoTRO- 5 k users

Eve- 4 k users

War- 3 k users

FF X1- 1/2 k or 500 users

 The MMO data charts do have FF at 500 k in 2007 - but that was pre-War, Aoc and LoTRO. I know Xfire isn't total MMO players  but it's the only tool we have to guage what games are being played by Gamers currently- albeit just a small sampling of Gamers that have Xfire installed.

So, WoW and Eve and LoTRO and War would be the top 4. There's no surprises there. WoW will always be number one with Eve and War and Lotro battling it out for the next 3 positions.

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Originally posted by Myrdek
Ogrelin:
World of Warcraft had over a million subs after 3 months and the only reason they didn't have more already was because they only printed 600k boxes at launch. Then they realised they didn't have enough servers and had to hire a lot more people before printing more copies. Thats not even considering the fact that the market was MUCH smaller back then than it is now.
Its not a single player game, it didn't only cost 20 millions to make. It cost a little bit south of 100 million according to Mark Jacobs. Plus the 1.5 million was to Retailers, roughly 1 million was sold to customers.

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alright, perhaps I was wrong about WoW, and ofcourse mythic would have wanted all those 800k accounts to stay subscribed.

My game collection contains far too many games I've spent 20-30 quid on that I haven't completed 3 days playing never mind 30, so it's not surprising that alot of ppl just bought the game only to not subscribe after the first 30 days.

I still think WAR will grow into something great, why? the game hasn't even launched in Asia or russia yet and I KNOW people still buy the game...and some of those 500 who left will come back.

The trolling season seem to be over as well for WAR, why this thread isn't that infested as it would have been 2 months ago imho.

Originally posted by silkakc

Originally posted by Razephon

Wow. 300k is quite bad. I was expecting this game to maintain 500k.

So if im reading correctly, FFXI is the no. 2 MMO now? Then again they have azn subs as well. Would be interesting to find out their NA/EU pop.

AoC is probably below 150k subs now I would say.

Its quite shameful how both of these games have declined so badly. (WAR/AoC)

 

I don't see how FF could be #2. Judging by Xfire numbers for the last 24 hours:

WoW- 95 k users

LoTRO- 5 k users

Eve- 4 k users

War- 3 k users

FF X1- 1/2 k or 500 users

 The MMO data charts do have FF at 500 k in 2007 - but that was pre-War, Aoc and LoTRO. I know Xfire isn't total MMO players  but it's the only tool we have to guage what games are being played by Gamers currently- albeit just a small sampling of Gamers that have Xfire installed.

So, WoW and Eve and LoTRO and War would be the top 4. There's no surprises there. WoW will always be number one with Eve and War and Lotro battling it out for the next 3 positions.

If you'd read further back you would've seen me stating FFXI is the second largest MMO out of those released in the west, but using global subscription figures. I'm sure WAR and LOTRO will over take it when they are released in Asia, but for now, its WoW, FFXI, then whatever.

In addition to these, Xfire is a sign of dedication, EVE we know for a fact isn't bigger than WAR, but they are so hardcore its unstandable that they all have Xfire running all the frigging time.

Wait till Aion comes out over here, or someone posts figures of the Asian MMOs that have millions of subscribers. EA / Mythic talk in global figures and globally, WAR is piss poor small at the moment.

And some of you must be omnipresent to know all these factual figures... wow. 300,000 + 15.00 + box sales a month is not bad. You really have no basis for your figures or your "prediction". Since launch, they've implemented quite a bit with constant updates, live events, input the classes they were missing from launch, and even announced a live expansion which involves the last two classes, a new rvr dungeon and other improvements with the few bugs, etc. I don't get why there are so many haters? If you'd actually played the game for more than 7 days and really tried all facets of it, you might actually enjoy it.

Originally posted by xSaintx

I don't get why there are so many haters?

First time on MMORPG.com? LOL

Hehe, no doubt. Maybe I should rephrase my question, what is the purpose of all these haters? To destroy fun for people who have fun where they don't?

Originally posted by silkakc

Originally posted by Razephon

Wow. 300k is quite bad. I was expecting this game to maintain 500k.

So if im reading correctly, FFXI is the no. 2 MMO now? Then again they have azn subs as well. Would be interesting to find out their NA/EU pop.

AoC is probably below 150k subs now I would say.

Its quite shameful how both of these games have declined so badly. (WAR/AoC)

 

I don't see how FF could be #2. Judging by Xfire numbers for the last 24 hours:

WoW- 95 k users

LoTRO- 5 k users

Eve- 4 k users

War- 3 k users

FF X1- 1/2 k or 500 users

 The MMO data charts do have FF at 500 k in 2007 - but that was pre-War, Aoc and LoTRO. I know Xfire isn't total MMO players  but it's the only tool we have to guage what games are being played by Gamers currently- albeit just a small sampling of Gamers that have Xfire installed.

So, WoW and Eve and LoTRO and War would be the top 4. There's no surprises there. WoW will always be number one with Eve and War and Lotro battling it out for the next 3 positions.

In this case these "tools" are wrong, as they usually are. Square Enix still maintains that FFXI has around 500k subscibers worldwide, which they announced again while revealing the three mini expansions back in November 2008.

Based on those five games, in terms of subscibers, WoW reigns supreme, then FFXI, then LOTRO (?), then WAR, then Eve.

300k for WAR is actually more than I expected..

Originally posted by Ogrelin

it's not over yet, as some wrote, WoW had as many subs after 3 months to.

If this was a sigleplayer game, would 1,5 mill sold copies be a failure? the diffrens now is that 300k people continue to pay up 15$ each month...

and the game haven't even launched in Asia or russia yet...

How many of those 1,5M?? even subbed one month?

I still paly this game and I like it, I'm saying it has no issues, it does...but so have every MMO I'v ever played.

I have one rank 40 and I'm now lvling up my second alt...it's still fun! :)

Try to see this from another point of view and maybe you wouldn't get so many arguments. No ones saying that WAR doesn't appeal to some people. People are saying that most of the people that tried WAR, quit it for one reason or another.

The overall consensus on the forums, is that the game caters to the casual PvP crowd. That's not a very big niche and not a very good MMORPG either. Not to mention, sieges in WOW are a lot more fun that sieges in WAR. DAoC is more fun than both WAR and WoW combined, which is why I hope Mythic will focus development on Origins, especially after seeing most people don't want a casual PvP game.

Originally posted by Ogrelin

 

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Originally posted by templarga

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Originally posted by Wolfdor

 

Ouch, normally I would think 300k a decent number, but didn't they announce in November that they had sold over 750k boxes?  That's a lot of losses considering the game is only just over 4 months old (and these are just up to December's numbers).  I heard things weren't going so great, but I had no idea it was that bad.

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You are mostly right. In October, they announced 750k "registered users". See link here: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6199142.html
So that means that, for various reasons, 450k subscribers or registered users left within 2.5 months (assuming Q3 ended December 31st). That is not good at all and very worrisome for the game. No wonder they are adding the Slayer and Choppa and in a hurry.
However, this makes me worry about DAOC even more and I now seriously doubt we will see any news on origins anytime soon.

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Didn't you see the frikking poll on their webbsite last week? (about origins that is)

And I really like WAR, and I'm still having alot of fun there.

I think WAR will get back on it's feel this year, look at conan, once the trolls went over to falming Darkfall they started regaining subs...same thing will happend to WAR...and imho it already has...My guild still get applications fom people who just bought the game.

That poll has been there about 8 months or so now and we have had 3 news updates about it which are usually "more news to come".

All I am saying is that EA just saw 60% of their initial subscriber base vanish in WAR and DAOC is on life support as it is. If yo add to that the financial state that the report gives us (and its not good), EA is probably not big on MMO's right now and I doubt they will invest that much in DAOC. However, maybe they see Origins as a possibility to get more players.

Either way, with this financial report out of the way, I expect more Origins news soon and perosnally I do not expect it to be that great.

Originally posted by xSaintx

And some of you must be omnipresent to know all these factual figures... wow. 300,000 + 15.00 + box sales a month is not bad. You really have no basis for your figures or your "prediction". Since launch, they've implemented quite a bit with constant updates, live events, input the classes they were missing from launch, and even announced a live expansion which involves the last two classes, a new rvr dungeon and other improvements with the few bugs, etc. I don't get why there are so many haters? If you'd actually played the game for more than 7 days and really tried all facets of it, you might actually enjoy it.

450,000 former subscribers would beg to differ it seems.  And that comes from Mythic's own numbers.

The numbers aren't horrible, in fact for most games they would be good numbers.  But I think what most are finding so surprising is that the game lost so many people in such a short amount of time.  Even Mark Jacobs was predicting they wouldn't come close to WoW, but were expecting to have around 1 million subs.  If that's what he was expecting, you know that's what EA was expecting.

I thought WAR was okay, a little to simple for my liking.  I really wish they would have created a DAoC game with upgraded engine and Warhammer skins.  I was never a fan of the WoW type of PvP they decided to go with.  I miss the massive siege warfare and realm team work that DAoC provided.

I hope they can turn things around quick, the more quality competition that's out there the better for all of us, whether you play the game or not.  With them announcing an official forum (something Jacobs said he was completely against and would never ever do for any Mythic game), it shows they are desperate, but it also shows they are willing to do anything to correct their mistakes.  But I'm not going to lie, I was really stunned when I saw they only had 300k subscribers left after a decent launch.

i think what we forget that when wow was released there was nt something like wow out there as competition . at the moment there the adiction factor in play . people stay in warcraft because thier friends are there so in a way wow is like a glorfied chat room . wow endgame is pretty appalling at the moment ( pvp wise ) thats the reason i left early after returning to level my characters to 80 . i m now playing warhammer and finding it to be a lot of fun . yet perhaps theres improvements that can be made but for a game in its third or fouth month this is a lot better than the wow fanbois will have you think . most of which brought the game played it for a week and really did nt give i a chance because its not some mindless grind like wow .

theres a lot of rubbish you lll read about this game . the facts are it does nt lag like wow when you get into world pvp/rvr . i mean wintersgrasp is a mess , 20 second lag most of the time and the class imbalances virtually make rogues superhuman and paladins immortal . the burst damage in wow is way to high after the lich king expansion . warcraft is broken in so many ways at present that it makes me laugh when wow players make the same comment about warhammer .

as for lord of the rings being more popular . its a great game and i d proberbly splitting my time between war and lotro now if codemasters had nt taken three payments out of my bank after i d cancelled my subscription . from what i ve read in these forums i m not the only one thats had a problem with cancelling lotro and perhaps i should have spotted the problem earlier and i would have if it had not been for me moving and being offline for several months last year .  after that i ve decided to stay away from turbine/codemasters games in future because i no longer trust them with my credit information .

so for now unless some other game comes along or blizzard fix wow so its playable once again i m sticking with warhammer . but....

it does need a free trial so people can see for themselve what it plays like on thier pc system and so they realise half the stuff they hear from wow fanbois really is rubbish . i

This is what I predicted (well technically I said 250K) by end of year. Now , I will be bold enough to make another prediction. WAR will have at least 500K by end of  2009. I know a lot of players are saying "WAR is terrible, losing subs etc). I disagree, the slow yet continuous leak of players from WOW will prop up WAR's subs. Right now, WAR is one of the few viable alternatives to WoW out there for the WOW playerbase. Different game (RvR vs PVE), I know ...but still a substantial alternative (With LOTRO being the other)

300k subs, nice, means they are the second biggest premium mmo in the west, after WoW.

And it will get better from here, RVR has gotten alot better ( according to RL friends ), lots of content is being added, bugs getting fixed, the future looks bright for WAR.

I may even come back someday :p

I would really like to see how many new playes Warhammer got since JAN 1st.  We see insane ammounts of new people joining up.  Especially now that the game is soooo much bette afte everythign Mythic did, and the new stuff announced for the next 3 months - FANTASTIC !

haha, inflated numbers.  Maybe if they get another 300k  they will merge even more of their  servers   Ghost town anyone?