The problem I have with EVE Online is whenever I've tried ti get into it I just find the game to be like riding a bicycle up a hill where you have to go through this long grind before you can go down the hill and have fun. The thing is new players want to have fun right away and don't want to have to spend a few months getting their character sorted out until they can realistically be efficient in anything. Take crafting for example I found whenever I tried that out it cost far too much to produce items than what other people are making on the market in bulk and to get to their stage it would take years like. Or mining where sure you can make money at all stages but really it takes months to train to get any good at it.

The thing is everyone talks about finding a Corp is what makes or breaks the game but what I found is finding a good corp in the game is really hard. I spent ages going from corp to corp and each one had hardly any people online doing anything and all anyone would ever do is sign on and change skills and sign off. The problem is the game makes it so hard to find a good corp and theres no good tools to help and everyone seems really rude in the game anyways. All the corps with people online doing anything are all in 0.0 and to get to them you have to spend hours jumping only to constntly get ganked by gate campers.

Thats the problem I have with PVP is this whole loading between zones all the time really gives you the disavantage. I don't see why it would be so hard for the client to have the next jump gate areas pre loaded up so it is a seamless transition between the two. It would be really nice to have like a nicer jump animation and it to blend you into the next envrionment nicely, rather than just seeing loading and being blown up before it has even finished.

Theres my other problem... PVP because as a noob it is VERY hard to get into and it isn't just me but I have 3 real life mates who all started playing mmorpgs beause of World of Warcraft. Before that they were all like "screw paying a monthly fee" and then it's weird because as soon as Blizzard charged a monthly fee it was straigh on the World of Warcraft Band Wagon cause they all happen to love Blizzard. So with each one it was always the same story and including me that we'd log in and wonder what the hell you're meant to do. Quit half way through the tutorial because it was boring as hell and just go out and mine or do agent missions. The problem is that both of these are really repetitive and very very boring. All you do while mining is sit there and transfer ore into the can and then you bring it back to the station if a Ore theif hasn't gotten to your can first. Agent missions are just jump to this random location and kill these npc's and come back and they run in a cycle so you're doing the same ones over and over again.

So getting started to get money to have a better combat ship in PVP is VERY VERY boring! So by this time one of my friends quit and said the game sucks and went back to WoW and complaining how easy that game has gotten since TBC. The other two are still sticking it out in hope that the game becomes fun. So then we eventually have enough money for better frigates because skills are training.

Heres another thing that pissing me off is because everyone says train Learning Skills first atleats to level 3..... why? I don't see the point in learning skills because all they do is make veterans train skills even faster leaving new players even further behind. Also they make the start of a new players experience in the game really unfun because they are told to train these boring skills first and as a new player you really want to be training skills that are getting you somewhere in what you want to do.

Anyways all that happens in our frigates is as soon as we jump into 0.4 you get gate camped and ganked straight away and you're back to square one. This seems like an endless cycle until you have better skills like for a Drake or something. Even then all that seems to happen is you jump into 0.4 and the gate camper brings his 100 ALT accounts and you have no chance. What I don't get is everyone seems to have ALT accounts and seems to buy isk and buy other peoples accounts and CCP allow this? Like all PVP seems to me is about how many accounts you own and how much real life money you have.

So at this point and I swear to God we all happened to buy ISK like everyone else to get better stuff because mining and agent missions are so boring and we all can't find good corps. So we buy better ships with the money but all that happens is you jump into 0.4 and you get ganked by that one gate camping loser and his alts that always seems to be there. It's like how are new players meant to have a chance?

So by this point another mate left and decided mmorpgs suck. Now I'm really trying to make an effort and get into the game so try out the new Factional Warfare but that was no good. The factional warfare channel is full of retards flaming eachother and all that seemed to happen was everyone would gate camp and wait for eachother...... wheres the fun in gate camping? What is it about this stupid game and all the PVP being around gates?

I really tried to like this game and my friends gave it a try too but it was the same result for all of us and we all have similar experiences and we all resorted to buying ISK like everyone else because Agent Missions are boring and so is mining. CCP need to remove that tedious stuff and put in some nice quests and that or just some fun way to make money because the only way is to perform tedious tasks over and over again.

Another thing they need to do is make a better job of introducing noobs to the game and to PVP. I would love some sort of battlegrounds where you don't lose your stuff and you can learn PVP in there to prepare you for the real game or something. Going into the game as it is, really it starts off about trial and error and thats not fun and as a new player you are no match for the veteran gate campers. I want some sort of smooth transition between systems because right now the whole loading into a zone puts you at a massive disavantage and isn't any fun.


I just find EVE Online like many so hard and boring to get into.

I love the look of the PVP tournament and yet why can't we have Arenas like that in the game? I could have done 2 vs 2 with my friend in a PVP arena and had alot of fun. We Have fighting sports in real life and people don't say "sports fighting sucks and it should all be open world" lol so I don't see why you couldn't have sports PVP in EVE with ranks n shit.

so, how did you and your friends like faction warfare?

Did you just ask for 2v2 arena in Eve? seriously are you trying to troll?

Lets say your not a worthless troll, Lets say you really tried to like Eve but couldn't.

Let me help you out a bit since im bored and work doesnt start for another hour.

You say missions and mining are boring so its too painful to grind Isk when just starting out.

Well you can do missions in a fleet (group), you can have a mining Op with your friends. Both missions and mining are alot of fun if not done solo and alone. Later on Low and Null sec mining is a bit more complex and level 4-5 missions are more complex and usually need to be done with a fleet.

You can group up and Rat or bait players into pvp in high sec.

You say that every time you hit a .4 system you get blown up and have to start over?

Have you looked at some guides out of game to help you with low sec navigation?

Have you tried to use the star map to navigate systems? you can see pilot activity in every system and amount of pilots blown up in the last hour, Since you and your friends play you can set up a scout to check an area first (newbs can do this in a shuttle).

You also say it's hard to find a good corp in Eve, well... sometimes this is true. When joining the recruitment channel be more specific about what you are looking for. if you want a large social guild ask. Have you tried to join Eve university? those guys hold all kinds of group activities and even take trial accounts.

I guess if you played WoW the idea of 2v2 or arena combat is something that you could want (if that wasnt a troll comment), To be honest you can run things like Frig wars with friends and corpmates. You set all that stuff up on your own, why would CCP have to set up a arena feature for you?

Get a couple friends, fly to a planet and ask if anyone wants to 3v3 with you guys.

Anyway hope this helps.

The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.

As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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go and play wow

Originally posted by Kexin

The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.

As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

LOL! all those pilots that are telling you to train learning to IV and advance learning skills to III are expecting you to play for the long haul.

If you're on a trial account and just want to try the game I suggest you train the base learning skill to 3 for a bit of a boost (this takes a day at the most) during this time you should be running tutorials, missions/mining and asking questions or reading guides players have linked you in rookie chat.

Once you get urself into a decent Frig and train skills to use a Web/scram and MWd (or ab if you want) you can try to bait players or link up with some players and pvp a bit.

I personally ran the Eve trial like 3 times befor ei got hooked on the game, the damn game was even harder to get into back then. I understand this game is newb unfriendly and some players like to prey on new players lack of experience. Hang in there.

CCP have actually said that they are working on some sort of arena feature where you can put in restrictions on ships and mods etc.

The main reason being to make it much easier to organize things like the alliance tournament but it would be open for anyone to use.

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
//edited quoting failure

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/signed

CCP knows that learnings are horrible, and i actually expect them to kill them completely at some point.
They're nothing but an idiotic timesink, sadly..

To actually answer the question in the topic:

No, they don't design for noobs. Noobs get killed in Eve, humihilated, buy isk to compete, get killed again, post on the forums and emo rage quit.

Newbies, on the other hand...
The way the skill system works favours not only specialization, but makes vertical skill progression very fast. After reaching a certain point, only horizontal skill progression exists, and this is where some of the more recent additions come in, like the Electronic Attack Frigates. Also, the combat system makes a simple, inexpensive frigate an important asset even for fleets of experienced, old players. There's a reason why some large alliances push their new players into those frigates and train them that way. Goonswarm, as an example, uses hordes of extremely inexpensive frigates in fleet fights. Their newbies get to learn how a fleet operates, learn how to play, and have an important role.
At the same time, they can get killed multiple times in a fight, run back, grab a new ship for free, and return..

Originally posted by cosy

 

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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go and play wow

It's people like Cosy that cause EVE the bad repuation. So ignore him.

I have been playing EVE Online for about 2 years and had great fun during that time.

But you know how it goes, getting girlfriend and girlfriends don't like Uber Geek games like EVE Online.... so I end up playing games like LOTRO and AoC again. 

EVE Online is a very New Player unfriendly game (hate the word noob). They tried to enhance it during the years, but still failed somewhat in that terrain.

There plenty of excellent guides on the internet, but these are so well written that they turn out to be complete books that overwhelm you as well.

BUT! There is light in the end of the tunnel!

CCP seems to be working on a brand new Tutorial and New Player Experience with the upcoming expansion that is about to release in March. That is also going to enhance the PVE experience finally!

And I cannot wait to try it out and see what they come up with!

...and then maybe... when Ambulation releases.... I might even get my girlfriend into the game. 

theres a lot of complaining here. eve is a sandbox, you make your own goals, it will not hold your hand and point you towards the next dungeon.

that said, i admire you for your willingness to pvp early on, well done, thats the right attitude to have. but dont wait to get a drake before you start, because the drake will die too, just be a more expensive loss. you say that you skipped the tutorial, that was a mistake, i suggest you read that and some of the piracy guides on the offical forums and wikipedia, hopefully you'll start to enjoy yourself more with a few kills under your belt.

oh, and i agree, learning skills were a mistake. new players should start with the basic ones maxed at least.

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Originally posted by Guillight

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Originally posted by cosy

 

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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go and play wow

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It's people like Cosy that cause EVE the bad repuation.

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Ps: this thread is not why your gf dont play eve is about content for n00bs

Grow the heck up, cosy.

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Originally posted by batolemaeus
Grow the heck up, cosy.

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ppl who dont understand some game mechanic and ask: how is this working? what make that? how you use this? etc etc that ppl deserve attention and explication

Originally posted by hyzzaza

If only eve was interesting or original in any way... if only. I mean dont get me wrong i love spending hours on end doing fuck all and flying round in my spaceship doing stuff but i mean srsly, why would you play this for any other reason than severe boredom. Its kinda bad. 

I've played every freaking P2p mmo you can think of and after two years Eve still holds me.

IN the two years that i've played the game the only time I could honestly say I was bored was when I was trying to play Eve on an old laptop(during a business trip) that couldn't run the game with more then 5 ships on the screen.

I can't say that for any other game.

While you consider eve boring I consider it the best damn MMO ive ever played. This coming from a guy that played UO, EQ, SWG,DAoC and WoW all before each game started to suck due to shitty dev decisions.

I find it amazing that people find this game boring..... actually now that i think about it, maybe its possible if you never ventured lower then .5 space or uninstalled once you found out it was a click to move game.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by hyzzaza

If only eve was interesting or original in any way... if only. I mean dont get me wrong i love spending hours on end doing fuck all and flying round in my spaceship doing stuff but i mean srsly, why would you play this for any other reason than severe boredom. Its kinda bad. 

 

I've played every freaking P2p mmo you can think of and after two years Eve still holds me.

IN the two years that i've played the game the only time I could honestly say I was bored was when I was trying to play Eve on an old laptop(during a business trip) that couldn't run the game with more then 5 ships on the screen.

I can't say that for any other game.

While you consider eve boring I consider it the best damn MMO ive ever played. This coming from a guy that played UO, EQ, SWG,DAoC and WoW all before each game started to suck due to shitty dev decisions.

I find it amazing that people find this game boring..... actually now that i think about it, maybe its possible if you never ventured lower then .5 space or uninstalled once you found out it was a click to move game.

and here he made a post earlier stating he never played a mmorpg before lol.....

and i agree with metal, this is the only game which gives me the total freedom, intricacies, and complexities a sim / mmorpg could give.

Ive been playing for a few weeks.  EVE is hard, can be cruel, and requires a lot to learn to really get going.

I love it. 

As a side note, the most helpful person I have delt with in this game so far has been Cosy, from helpful links and an infusion of starter cash (which honestly has really helped as a catalyst to stay afloat so far).

When EVE was released it was alot harder on the newbie, but I never experienced that time myself.

However, since I started following has been added/improved which benefits newbies :

- Better tutorial

- Jump to 0

- 800k SP's ( instead of 60k )

- More and better missions and mission system

- Easier to get jumpclone

- Factional warfare ( easier and cheaper pvp )

- Improvements in the interface

- Dont need basic learning skills at 5 for advanced learning skills, only need lvl 4

- You can buy GTC with RL money, convert them to plexes and sell for ISK, for 30€ you can get around 600mill isk I believe, so you can buy some implants to catch up with the vets and have alot of money left for experimentation with ships and fittings. And once you start making some nice money yourself, you can buy GTC's for ISK, so it comes full circle.

- And prolly alot more that I am forgetting now

And they keep adding and improving :

- the tutorial will be improved once more with the next expansion

- More interesting missions will be added, wormholes will also open from higsec space and the new regions cant be claimed by 0.0 corps/alliances

- Walking in stations may not be specifically for newbies, but will be interesting for newbies and a safer way to experience the game.

- And prolly alot more that I am forgetting now

The only thing CCP should avoid is dumbing down the game.

The thing is they start new players off with more than back in the day but don't forget that veterans had far less and people were on more of an even playing field. Noone had 100 Skillpoints and 8 ALT accounts camping a gate and most people back then would have had one account and grouping with people and as they became more ahrdcore about the game, then purchased more accounts. There are more established pirates in the game these days and there are far more people online at any one time now which makes te galaxy more dangerous. There are far more ships to counter these days too when back in the day there was only really one and that was the Caldari Raven that everyone used. So really Noobs have a much harder time of it and as there are more gold farmers and more people all the safe belts are dry.

I say give another use to Learning skills or take them out of the game completly and give people the option to put them skillpoints in something else.

I say cap the total skill points you can have like SWG and make it so you have to keep dropping skills and training new ones to do other things in the game because being able to keep becoming more efficient at everything is not good.

I say ease new players into the game better than they are doing by giving better and more fun tutorials and by giving a more clear route to factional warfare and by having arenas for them where they can't be podded like the Tournament.

These things have no effect on the capital ships online end game and why wouldn't people want arena fights with ranks? It is fun and helps new people get used to the PVP in the game with fair rules instead of being raped by 1 gate camper and his 8 ALTS.



All I hear from new players is how they quit cause the game is boring or too hard and so it'll never grow truely until EVE makes it fun to get into.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

The thing is they start new players off with more than back in the day but don't forget that veterans had far less and people were on more of an even playing field. Noone had 100 Skillpoints and 8 ALT accounts camping a gate and most people back then would have had one account and grouping with people and as they became more ahrdcore about the game, then purchased more accounts. There are more established pirates in the game these days and there are far more people online at any one time now which makes te galaxy more dangerous. There are far more ships to counter these days too when back in the day there was only really one and that was the Caldari Raven that everyone used. So really Noobs have a much harder time of it and as there are more gold farmers and more people all the safe belts are dry.

I say give another use to Learning skills or take them out of the game completly and give people the option to put them skillpoints in something else.

I say cap the total skill points you can have like SWG and make it so you have to keep dropping skills and training new ones to do other things in the game because being able to keep becoming more efficient at everything is not good.

I say ease new players into the game better than they are doing by giving better and more fun tutorials and by giving a more clear route to factional warfare and by having arenas for them where they can't be podded like the Tournament.

These things have no effect on the capital ships online end game and why wouldn't people want arena fights with ranks? It is fun and helps new people get used to the PVP in the game with fair rules instead of being raped by 1 gate camper and his 8 ALTS.



All I hear from new players is how they quit cause the game is boring or too hard and so it'll never grow truely until EVE makes it fun to get into.

and yet they keep growing in subs and concurrent users? How many other games can say with honesty they keep growing every year? EVE doesn't hide their population numbers, and there are sites out there which do nothing but monitor them.  So it seems to me, alot more people are enjoying an EVE-type game than ever before.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

The thing is they start new players off with more than back in the day but don't forget that veterans had far less and people were on more of an even playing field. Noone had 100 Skillpoints and 8 ALT accounts camping a gate and most people back then would have had one account and grouping with people and as they became more ahrdcore about the game, then purchased more accounts. There are more established pirates in the game these days and there are far more people online at any one time now which makes te galaxy more dangerous. There are far more ships to counter these days too when back in the day there was only really one and that was the Caldari Raven that everyone used. So really Noobs have a much harder time of it and as there are more gold farmers and more people all the safe belts are dry.

I say give another use to Learning skills or take them out of the game completly and give people the option to put them skillpoints in something else.

I say cap the total skill points you can have like SWG and make it so you have to keep dropping skills and training new ones to do other things in the game because being able to keep becoming more efficient at everything is not good.

I say ease new players into the game better than they are doing by giving better and more fun tutorials and by giving a more clear route to factional warfare and by having arenas for them where they can't be podded like the Tournament.

These things have no effect on the capital ships online end game and why wouldn't people want arena fights with ranks? It is fun and helps new people get used to the PVP in the game with fair rules instead of being raped by 1 gate camper and his 8 ALTS.



All I hear from new players is how they quit cause the game is boring or too hard and so it'll never grow truely until EVE makes it fun to get into.

and yet they keep growing in subs and concurrent users? How many other games can say with honesty they keep growing every year? EVE doesn't hide their population numbers, and there are sites out there which do nothing but monitor them.  So it seems to me, alot more people are enjoying an EVE-type game than ever before.

You have to think though that alot of them are going to be ALTS and I see one guy with like 8 accounts gate camping and since allowing 4 clients running at the same time there must be alot of hardcore people running multiple settings. Sure EVE has grown and there are more people than before but that is just down to the marketing CCP has been doing in recent years and nicer looking graphics. Also before WoW not many people were willing to spend a monthly fee but Blizzard opened up the floor gates so 2 years after WoW people are getting bored of that game and trying other mmorpgs.

This is a grace period that CCP have to take advantage of and I bet way more people have tried the game and hated it than current subs which to grab new people you have to make it fun and exciting and easy for them to get into the game. Punishing at the first step puts 90% of people off.

Hi, new to forums, not new to MMOs, not new to eve. I'll try to address all thequestions and problems as best as I can (ignoring whines and cries to change game to how YOU want it to be)

1. Eve isn't for everyone. Accept the fact that the eve universe is a dark, cold and harsh place. Unforgiving to those who make mistakes and rewards those to make the effort to learn about the game. Everytime you undock, there is a possibility that you WILL lose you ship. Suicide ganks, can baiting/flipping, wardecs etc are all too common.

2. Choices. The game is what you choose to make it. You can make it a boring grind by missioning or mining/whatever floats your boat, or spend the time u play to actually have fun, whereever you derive that fun from. I am part of a 'pirate' corp (but really we just like to blow stuff up and see some pretty explosions, maybe make some profit? newbie/pro/watever if i think I can pop it or it will be a goodfight, i'll go for it), I lose 100mil isk in ships and mods every 2-3 days, and have not done a single mission or mined for the past 6 months. I only have 1 account, my main. The other character slot is used as a hauler alt to bring my ships from hisec into lowsec.

Elaboration on #2 : Game mechanics allow theft, scamming, ransoming, everything u can think of, as long as it doesnt break the EULA. The majority of my isk is made via ransoms, followed by being fairly decent at poker and winning isk on that (evepoker ftw), and probably the occasional plex running to get some free faction gear (i like flying pimped ships) BE CREATIVE

3. Player skill > character skill. What this essentially means is, knowledge of the game, and how to do stuff in general gives you more chances of survival than having tons of skillpoints. Jumping into lowsec from hisec and dont wanna get gatecamped? Check map for ships blown up in the past hour, use a shuttle to scout ahead for your mates, then return to pick up your ship. Getting blown up with no chance of fighting back? Learn to use your directional scanner, learn to identify possible threats in local, learn to know when to engage and when not to engage. Jumped 'blind' into a gatecamp? Use the session change invisibility to check out what you're closest aligned to, and warp there in the hope u can get away. Or burn back to the gate. Or fit some stabs (istabs and warpcore stabs) With the recent changes to agility, frigates escape most gatecamps with ease.

4. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose/Don't get too attached to a ship. If it takes you 5 days of mission running to replace a lost ship, then you're probably doing it wrong. If you feel butthurt over losing a ship, remember, it's just a toy. BTW, I can't afford to lose my deadspace fitted faction frigate (about 200mil slapped on a frigate that performs worse than most t1 frigates, but it's pimp cos it's rare). Yet, I understand that when I undocked, I have to accept the fact that I will probably lose this ship. Can i afford to replace it? Not immediately, Can i afford to lose it? Yes, most definitely.

5. For new players, the key is specialisation. Find out what you enjoy doing, and train up skills for that ship (including support skills). Diversify a bit to shake things up from time to time. A 40mil SP pilot with barely anything in Battleship related skills (and poor ingame knowledge of game mechanics, bad fittings etc) will most like lose it to a 2mil 'noob' in a frigate/cruiser. Higher skillpoints just mean u can fly more ships effectively.

6. Learning skills. Granted, training learning skills early on are VERY beneficial in the long run. However, train up some other skills in order to try out everything the game to offer, makes the game less boring.

7. Most other MMO's set a goal for a player. However, they also limit your character the further u progress. Yes, u might have 10000+ more skills/spells/whatever than someone 20 levels behind u, but most MMO's will force you to choose a class/profession to specialise in. In EVE, the longer you play, the more options you have, it gets better and better with time.

8. Buying isk. The reason why we LOL when we kill a poorly fitted player in a BS, even if it's fitted with faction mods, is that most of them are clueless and dont try to learn the game, and instead take the easy option of getting isk to buy their poorly skilled and poorly fitted ships.

9. Getting help. EVE rewards those that help themselves. Got blown up? Convo the person who blew you up and ask how he did it, how u can avoid it in future. Most likely they will give you a few tips (unless you start off by mentioning mothers, genitalia etc), and some may even offer to take you under their wing. Asking in NPC corp chat can produce varied results (carebears give bad advice), it's a matter of trial and error. Another option is to check out teaching corps like Eve University, where there are plenty of helpful people who will be happy to give you advice. Agony Unleashed also provide basic and advanced PVP courses (for a fee). Read up on officail forums.

Sorry wall of text/bad grammar/repetitions (just means it's important)/stuff/watever. It's 6am here. My eyes got smartbombed

tl;dr dont fly what u cant afford to lose, read up more about the game and you will find yourself enjoying the game more and more as u play.

Final advice for newbies in general: Start a trial, try to join a corp early and try all possible aspects of eve open to you at the time. Once you know what you want to focus in, either start a new character and use the knowledge gained or carry on with your 1st character if you're happy with it. (trials dont cost anything)

Definition: carebear = player who is risk-averse, and whines to get game changed to suit that risk averse lifestyle. Industrialist = Miner/manufacturers/researchers/traders etc who understand that there is inherent risk to the game. Pirate = someone who pewpew for profit. PVPer = someone who pewpew for lulz. Antipirate = roleplaying idiots

edit: just wanted to add, many MMO's make things fun for beginners, but how many of them keep their playerbase? They normally have high turnovers as people get bored easily. CCP do not want to 'grab new customers', they want to keep the ones that like their game playing for many years to come, hence the slower rate of growth but consistenly increasing number of suscribers AFAIK Eve has the highest retention of players, and most people who play the game and like it, stick with it (unsourced, cant be bothered to search)

How do you make it fun and exciting and easy to get into a game that takes a month to learn basics and has meaningfull death penalty and half of fun is interaction with other players? Puzzle me this.

People want to try out PvP few days old and are saddened that they do not succeed. It is like WoW players going arena at lvl 10 - and that is not overstatement, they do not know nor have the very basics and will not for quite some time. There are PvP opportunities for newbies now but people have too high expectations for their very low investment.

Part of issue is what makes EvE great yet boring at the same time - huge part of PvP is outside of direct combat. Direct combat in any MMO can be dominated by bots and bot assisted play but no bot will tell you when and how to strike based on incoplete information. 2 vs 2 fight is not EvE PvP; 1 vs 8 is and you can win it without firing a shot.

The truth is EvE is niche game and by definition niche is not for everyone and once it tries it is not longer niche and risks failing miserably. It could be more newbie friendly but I would not bet it would bring high retention.

Edit: I am quite a carebear (so i feel a bit offended by the pro pirate above). The game is carebear friendly if you want to play it that way. Actually, it is one of the most carebear friendly games. You can play it safe, but endlessly grinding gear with low durability and then solo running into raid boss (to use fantasy MMO parrarel) is plain stupid and that you do not know what you are doing is not making it any less stupid.

Originally posted by Tyrrhon

How do you make it fun and exciting and easy to get into a game that takes a month to learn basics and has meaningfull death penalty and half of fun is interaction with other players? Puzzle me this. Takes slightly less than a day to do some proper research on this new game they're trying out, eve doesn't promise 'instant gratification'.

People want to try out PvP few days old and are saddened that they do not succeed. It is like WoW players going arena at lvl 10 - and that is not overstatement, they do not know nor have the very basics and will not for quite some time. There are PvP opportunities for newbies now but people have too high expectations for their very low investment. There are many excellent guides on how to do things from the getgo, all available on the EVE-O forums, and in various pdf files etc.

Part of issue is what makes EvE great yet boring at the same time - huge part of PvP is outside of direct combat. Direct combat in any MMO can be dominated by bots and bot assisted play but no bot will tell you when and how to strike based on incoplete information. 2 vs 2 fight is not EvE PvP; 1 vs 8 is and you can win it without firing a shot. wait wat? Dont really understand what you mean by this

The truth is EvE is niche game and by definition niche is not for everyone and once it tries it is not longer niche and risks failing miserably. It could be more newbie friendly but I would not bet it would bring high retention. Most people are just to damn lazy to do the tutorial and read up/get help from the numerous guides, hence the reason they give up. In fact, some people only 'get' it after a few tries, and realise how good a game it is. Some people don't, but screw them anyway

 

Wait so is this whine post? lemme check..Eve is cool, c/d?

I love how you actually go backwards in time as your skill increases by that graph.

The learning cliff takes a bit of a wallclimber to mount, unless you can find a couple of friends on top to drop you a rope-ladder, or get a few friends below to hold your ladder steady while you climb.

To put it more bluntly, the secret of EVE is friends. Have some. When you do, you'll find that things are much more interesting and easier. Find a vet to befriend, and you will be able to ask someone for reliable advice.