Does it really matter  what rank WoW has on this site, or any site for that matter?

Do you people play this game because it's fun or because it's popular? So WoW is not very popular with the voters of this site, big deal.

I'm afraid that there are quite a few bored people bashing games on this site. WoW is an obvious target. Perhaps these people need to re-evaluate their reasons for playing the games they choose to play. You're not getting any special nerd-status by playing X game over Y game, really you don't. All you do is play a game you don't really like, but do it anyway because of this false sense of superiority. Perhaps if people started playing game according to what's "fun" instead of what's "superior", we'd see less bickering on these forums. Alas, those who fall for the elitist approach are no less sheep than those that fall for the most popular approach.

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Newer isn't always better, I agree. What I'm getting at is that things sometimes need to go through iterations to improve in the longrun. Granted, that isn't always the case, but I'd rather be a part of something that COULD become fantastic.

For the record I've been playing WoW since not long after launch. To this day I've never experience a raid, but I'm not one of these people who expects hand-outs for simply logging in. I had the time nor the inclination to become involved in 40 man runs, but I did not begrudge those who chose to do so, and be rewarded accordingly.

A lot of people hated TBC for what it did to the lore and the gameplay. I think I'm among the minority that applauded them for doing something wildly different. I'm not critiscising people who would prefer to have the old game back, I just have a hard time understanding why, when I personally prefer to keep things constantly changing, to bring something fresh and new to the table, whether it be for good or bad.

Thats why I specified patch 1.12.1 as the version I'd like to play on. This was the last major patch released before BC. Vanilla WoW went through many changes and improvements From Nov 2004 to Jan 2007. www.wowwiki.com/Patches If you've got 10-15 mins spare its interesting looking through the patch history of WoW.

I started playing just after 1.5 came out. If Blizzard was to open a classic server running 1.5 I would say "thanks, but no thanks."

Compare 1.5 to 1.12.1. No BWL, ZG, no AB, no AQ20/40, no talent reviews for any class, no world bosses, no Naxx, mount changes  and many game improvements like continous flight paths etc.

But there was a lot of content I didn't see like AQ40 and Naxx. And I've always been interested what it would be like to start WoW over again knowing what I know now.

Perhaps you should look for a new game. I very much doubt Blizzard will open any classic only server. Especially when there will be people like you that not only want a classic server but want to exclude specific content from it. Then you'll have people that want classic but with BWL and without AQ. Or people who will want AQ including. It just doesn't work and it won't work for you either.

You want to re-live the experience of being a fresh player all over again. Even if they inroduced a classic server at exactly your specs, I very much doubt you'd get the same feeling of freshness again. You should probably look for another game.

Cosidering the ratings on this site are based its members' votes, the answer is already there. Its ranked 21st because the members here think there are 20 other MMOs out there that are better. Why is that so hard to understand? Will changing their opinion give your life meaning? and i hope the answer to that question is "no".

According to metacritc and gamerankings.com, 2 sites that consolodate reviews from across the internet and written media like magazines, theres not a single MMO that ranks higher than warcraft or its 2 ex packs.  

Apparantly popularity does not equal quality. Which begs the question, how does something become popular if it does not have any quality to begin with? beacuse its easy? So i take it that entertaiment (that you are paying for) must be hard and frustrating?

But hey what do i know? the people here preach the ultimate truth, i mean blizz must be paying off all those sites...over the past 4 years..... to keep getting rave reviews for their games. And despite there being 20 better games people are stupid enough to pay a monthly sub and continue playing a game just beacause its popular and easy (and apparantly easy = bad) 

So Recant dont lose any sleep over the rating system here. You're just running into a brick wall. But hey guys dont stop on my account. Keep fighting the good fight  

Originally posted by floppyface

Originally posted by Daffid011     

Originally posted by floppyface 

How many people out of the 11.5 million subscribers have ever subscribed to another mmorpg? How many have tried AoC recently or Warhammer? Very very very few.

 

Well it looks like over 1 million people tried each of those games first month or two.  That is record setting momentum and neither of those games were good enough to retain the players.  What is your excuse now? 

 

That alone blows giant holes in just about everything you say.

 

Sorry, I didn't realise 1 million = 11.5 million. What about the other 10.5 million people? Bad at math much? And you're assuming that everyone that purchased AoC or Warhammer had played WoW previously. Wrong.

I didn't read the rest of your post because it is obvious you're a terribad WoW fanboi idiot.

Well I guess since 11.5 million people didn't rush right out to buy Conan and Warhammer at release it proves that you are right and no wow players ever try other games.  Also consider that 6 million of that 11.5 could not access those games at release since there were not sold in the asian market yet.

1 million people, just think about it before you rush to your defensive dismissing.  WoW didn't get 5+ million NorthAmerican/Eupean players overnight you know and I'm sure they would have loved 1 million in their first month.

Oh and thanks for the insult and proving my point that you do little else.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by Recant

So I checked the ratings on this site and according to the list, World of Warcraft is rated at around number 21 of all released MMORPGs.  Ouch.   Okay, so I play WoW, but my intention behind this post is not to tell you that you're wrong or voting badly, but merely to ask the following:

Do you honestly believe that there are 20 better  MMORPGs than WoW (or at least closely comparable)?  

If you are at all willing to answer, perhaps you would be inclined estimate how the following might rank WoW as well, I assume there are none around to ask directly:

a) Professional opinion -(what other game developers might think.)
b) Pseudo-professional opinion -(what games journalists might think.)
c) A typical PC-gamer's opinion - (what a person who might enjoy games such as Half-Life, Fallout 3, Red Alert 3, etc might think)
d) The 'Veteran' - what someone that has played more than a couple of MMORPGs for signfiicant periods of time might think.  Actually I think that includes most of us.
 

There's no rhetoric behind that question, if you really believe that that there are 20, or even 50 better MMORPGs, then that's fine with me. 

 

To answer your question,no i do not,but you need to realize NO survey or ranking system matters EVER!.

Why would you the OP even worry about what others think?Do you not make your own decisions as to what you spend your money on and what you want to play as far as gaming?I can sort of answer it for you,MANY and i mean MANY are playing WOW because of the marketing hype and for no other reason.I was actually in EB and heard the clerk talking to 3 teenagers who all bought the game ,and when the clerk said,"So you guys like WOW eh?"they replied "We don't know,our friends are playing it so we are going to try it".I laughed because i know this is probably a fact over many of the WOW subscribers,it really is a fact without anyone proving it.

When WOW came out the number of FIRST time MMO players grew by leaps like 10 fold,so the majority were playing their VERY FIRST mmo and had nothing to compare it to,because it was their first.What is funny is that they tell everyone else it is the best lol,how would they know?then a few years later,they get bored and jump around a bit,then claim they now know,the truth is that they really never planned on giving another game a chance,they were just looking for freebie buddy passes and something to kill time between their boredom stages.

I can tell you the same thing happened to a friend of mine,he went from playstation console games to his first ever MMO[FFXI]the difference was astounding moving from pitiful console games to FFXI,so much so he has NEVER tried another MMO since FFXI.Now he says he just loves it,there might well be a better game for him,but he will never know,he likes FFXI and is not moving,no question the same has happened for WOW and most of their first timers.

Games should never be about numbers,i mean geesh there are F2P games that have a larger populace per server than WOW or any game,does that automatically mean it is the best game?Pfft not by any stretch.A game is only as good as it is to YOU,that is all that should matter.If you want to logically break games down piece by piece and discuss the different aspects that is a different situation,but you can NEVER say a game is the best because of numbers [survey or subs] ,it is 100% false.

Your conclusions can be applied to every mmo on the market, but for some reason you want to paint them as specific to wow alone. 

So some kids tried WoW because their friends play it?  How do you think Ultima, Everquest and DAOC got their subscriber bases back in the day?  One difference I noticed was that I could only get a couple of my friends to stick with EQ where I know plenty more that stuck with wow. 

Many peoples first mmo experience with EQ/UO/Daoc, but they moved on to new mmos in time.  I don't think that gamers who started mmos post 2004 are somehow genetically different and they are incapable of playing or trying other mmos.  If someone likes mmos they are going to look for another mmo when they get bored of wow.  Just like they would if they enjoyed FPS or RTS games. 

Everyone is trying so hard to pin the lack of succes of other mmos on players as if they are some sort of mutant species that walk and think differently than people from a few years ago.

The ultimate problem with other mmos is the other mmos themselves.  How many strings of terrible releases do we need to have before we can pin the blame on game companies and not people? 

I don't care how big the market is, but if mmos don't at least offer a compelling reason to leave your current mmo then the problem isn't that no one will try it.  The problem is people just don't stick around and word of mouth is bad.  Most mmos are not ever stepping up to the plate in terms of competition.  The rush a piece of crap to market and hope people will stick around.   That is why they get tons of people at release and then wither down after that.

Ask yourself why those kids in gamestop weren't talking about dark and light or maybe age of conan for example.  I think the answer is pretty obvious and that is the truth behind it and not that people aren't looking.

Originally posted by Xasapis

Perhaps you should look for a new game. I very much doubt Blizzard will open any classic only server.

Of course Blizzard wont open one. It has nothing to do with money, they would make a nice little profit from it. It has nothing to do with resources either. If Blizzard were to open a classic they would be tacitly admitting that Classic WoW is better than WotLK.

Especially when there will be people like you that not only want a classic server but want to exclude specific content from it. Then you'll have people that want classic but with BWL and without AQ. Or people who will want AQ including. It just doesn't work and it won't work for you either.

Total and complete and utter rubbish. Do you actually have any evidence that would would disagree about which classic version to run? Nope. You are talking out of your arse. Firstly, who the hell would want a classic server WITHOUT NAXXRAMAS IN IT? And your argument is completely idotic because BWL is the same regardless of server version. By accounts BWL was pretty buggy when it came out in 1.6 by 1.8/1.9 its the same as it was in 1.12. If someone only wants to do BWL and not AQ20/40 and Naxx they can just stop at BWL. Simple solution. But a little advice, think your arguments through a little better before posting becuase seriously, that was one of the most ill-thought and idiotic non-trolling statements I've ever read ... or are you trolling?

You want to re-live the experience of being a fresh player all over again. Even if they inroduced a classic server at exactly your specs, I very much doubt you'd get the same feeling of freshness again. You should probably look for another game.

I already have started looking for another game. My WoW account is frozen at the moment. I might come back in a few months, I might not. But I will never play WoW in the way I did pre-BC because WotLK is a steaming pile of cow dung. Spare the nostalgia crap. I've heard that lame argument from a million other dribblers. I want to play Classic WoW because it is the mmorpg that suited my playing style the most.

I suppose the reasons I prefer Star Wars episodes 4-6 more than the newer 1-3 is because of nostalgia too?

Originally posted by floppyface

Originally posted by Xasapis

Perhaps you should look for a new game. I very much doubt Blizzard will open any classic only server.

Of course Blizzard wont open one. It has nothing to do with money, they would make a nice little profit from it. It has nothing to do with resources either. If Blizzard were to open a classic they would be tacitly admitting that Classic WoW is better than WotLK.

If classic wow was better than any other version then people simply wouldn't play the expansion, quit or do something other than go to northrend.  People don't need classic servers now, they can already do that by not purchasing the expansion.

Perhaps blizzard sees no need to open one, because there is no need.  It isn't like DAOC where atlantis ruined the game and they lost massive subscriptions over how horrible the expansion was.  The reality is that more people play now than during classic.  Servers have log in ques, they are splitting overloaded populations to new servers, etc.

I doubt you could be any further from reality if you tried.  Classic servers are nothing but a pander to former customers. 

Originally posted by floppyface

Originally posted by Daffid011

If classic wow was better than any other version then people simply wouldn't play the expansion, quit or do something other than go to northrend.  People don't need classic servers now, they can already do that by not purchasing the expansion.

Again, are you trolling or just plain stupid? Classic WoW was the best but BC was pretty good in itself. WotLK is a steaming pile of crap but I played BC from the day it come out until WotLK came. One of my best memories in WoW is downing Kael'thas in TK (months before 2.4) and heading over to CoT and getting to zone in Hyjal for my first time, downing Rage Winterchill and then heading over to take a look at BT. Karazhan was a great raid instance. Besides Vashj/Kael the rest of TK/SSC was ok, not great and Gruul and Mag were interesting in their own way. Professions were actually useful and not gimmicky. The introduction of dailies was a good thing. BC was far from perfect and the levelling process was fun the first time but by the time I was levelling my 5th character in Outlands I want to tear my eyes out. I still enjoyed the 1-58 levels in Azeroth the 5th time. While heroics were a good idea the design of the 13 Outland instances was terrible (CoT 5 mans and magister's terrace were good). The Auchidoun instances were just plain AWFUL.

Obviously the concept of preferring Classic WoW but still being able to enjoy BC is beyond you.

And I know you never raided pre-BC the talents, abilities and game mechanics have radically changed since pre-BC. AND DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU FOR THE 164TH TIME THAT 40 MAN NAXX IS NO LONGER IN THE GAME? Even with a non-expansion account lvl 60 content is just radically different in 3.08 than it was 1.12

Perhaps blizzard sees no need to open one, because there is no need.  It isn't like DAOC where atlantis ruined the game and they lost massive subscriptions over how horrible the expansion was.  The reality is that more people play now than during classic.  Servers have log in ques, they are splitting overloaded populations to new servers, etc.

Read the WoW forums lately? Every 2nd post is people asking for classic servers. Look at the amount of lvl 60 guilds forming - even with the knowledge that 40 man naxx is no longer available. Go ask someone from the guild Heralds of Yore on Smolderthorn how many new member they have got lately. I'll give you a hint: lots. And the people who played DAoC were a lot more discerning about the game they played. Blizzard could serve up any slop and the millions of plebs who can't do anything  but chant the "Blizzard is the almighty and WoW is perfect" mantra will eat it up. A person who can play 6 different instruments, can read and write music and has a musical education is going to be more discerning than a 14 year old teeny bopper idiot. And thats who plays WoW these days. Teeny bopper idiots who wouldn't know quality if it bit them on the ass.

I doubt you could be any further from reality if you tried.  Classic servers are nothing but a pander to former customers. 

And the brain dead raid simple content in WotLK is to pander to the awful idiots who play the game now. The keyboard turning, clicking terribads who never put in any effort in and expect everything handed to them on a silver platter.

 

While Floppyface seems to know a lot of information about world of warcraft, he is pretty much exaggerating things aswell.  Yes, people will always say that Vanilla WoW was the best.  Thats because for many players, it was their first time playing the game.  It was their first time meeting the different personalities of people on their server, it was their first time exploring the world of Azeroth, and it was their first time having a blast at a mmorpg.

People love the new content though.  People love DKs.  People love the new abilities and expanded talent trees.  People love rolling alts.  People love the game still and cant wait for more content.  Floppy is bitter.  That is okay, many people get bitter at one point or another at something, then eventually will remember the good times over the bad.

Oh and Floppy, just so you know, I also read that article on wowinsider.com about Heralds of Yore on Smolderthorn, the players that only level to 60 and raid classic places like AQ40 and BWL.  Yea, okay.  The GM of the guild says in the interview that they dont even have enough players to fill the 40 man roster. 

Also, there are hardly ANY post about classic servers.  Sure you get the rare one ever now and then, but they are extremely scarce.

Originally posted by floppyface

 Thats why I specified patch 1.12.1 as the version I'd like to play on. This was the last major patch released before BC. Vanilla WoW went through many changes and improvements From Nov 2004 to Jan 2007. www.wowwiki.com/Patches If you've got 10-15 mins spare its interesting looking through the patch history of WoW.

I started playing just after 1.5 came out. If Blizzard was to open a classic server running 1.5 I would say "thanks, but no thanks."

Compare 1.5 to 1.12.1. No BWL, ZG, no AB, no AQ20/40, no talent reviews for any class, no world bosses, no Naxx, mount changes  and many game improvements like continous flight paths etc.

But there was a lot of content I didn't see like AQ40 and Naxx. And I've always been interested what it would be like to start WoW over again knowing what I know now.

I agree there was a lot of content added after 1.5, but what you're not realizing is all the content you are talking about is high end content (for that time).  All of the lower end content was added prior to then and there was still BRD, Dire Maul, Scholomance, Stratholme, Molten Core, Onyxia, Azuregos and Lord Kazzak for high end before 1.5.  If you were to remove all of the content that came before 1.5, how would you get to 60 in the first place?  That's a ton of content to get you to 60 and if wasn't there everything after 1.5 would have been pointless, because no one would have ever cared to get to 60.

Some of the best content in the game was there at release.  It's still what gets people to play the game in the first place.  The end-game stuff just keeps them playing.

Below is a brief synopsis of what was added for each patch.  If you'll notice it appears that 1.5 to 1.12 actually introduced less content than either of the 2 expansions or the original.

Ver    Date              Contents
------  ---------------  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.0 11/23/2004 Ragefire Chasm, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Blackfathom Deeps, Shadowfang Keep,  Stockade, Gnomeregan, Razorfen Kraul, Scarlet Monastery, Razorfen Downs, Uldaman, Zul'Farrack, Blackrock Depths (2), Sunken Temple, Scholomance, Stratholme, Molten Core, Onyxia's Lair, Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, 8 races, 9 classes, 9 professions etc...
1.2 12/18/2004 Maraudon
1.3 3/22/2005 Diremaul, Azuregos, Lord Kazzak, Meeting Stones
1.4 5/5/2005 PvP Honor System 
1.5 6/7/2005 Warsong Gulch, Alterac Valley 
1.6 8/2/2005 Blackwing Lair, Battlemasters, Darkmoon Faire
1.7 9/22/2005 Zul'Gurub, Arathi Basin, Fishing Event, Dressing Room
1.8 10/10/2005 Ysondre, Lethon, Emeriss, Taerar, Silithus Revamp
1.9 1/3/2006 Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj, Temple of Ahn'Qiraj, Linked Auction Houses, Raid Timers
1.10 3/28/2006 Weather effects
1.11 6/19/2006 Naxxramas, Key Rings, Eastern Plaguelands Revamp
1.12 8/22/2006 Cross Realm Battlegrounds, World PvP Events
2.0  12/5/2006 PvP Honor revamp, PvP Arenas, LFG Button, Socketable Items, Meeting Stone Summoning, 40 point talent trees
BC  1/16/2007 Silvermoon City, Exodar, Hellfire Citadel (4), Coilfang Reservoir (4), Auchindoun(4), Gruul's Lair, Tempest Keep(4), Eye of the Storm, Karazhan, Gruul's Lair, Caverns of Time(3), Outlands, Cap raised to Lvl 70, Flying Mounts, Dranei, Blood Elves, Jewelcrafting, Prospecting, Professions raised to 375, Heroic mode instances
2.1 5/22/2007 Black Temple, Daily Quests
2.2 9/25/2007 Voice Chat
2.3 11/13/2007 Zul'Aman, Guild Banks, Dustwallow Marsh Revamp, 20-60 XP reduction
2.4 3/25/2008 Sunwell Isle, Arena Tourney, Lvl 70 Superior PvP gear sets
3.0 10/14/2008 Dalaran moved, Barbershop, Achievement System, Stormwind Harbor, Hit/Crit/Haste/Spellpower combined, 50 point talent trees, Inscription, Milling, Glyphs, 60-70 XP reduction
WoTLK 11/13/2008 Utgarde Keep (2), Nexxus (3), Drak'Tharon Keep, Gundrak, Violet Hold, Chamber of Aspects, Ulduar (3), Azjol-Nerub (2), Icecrown Citadel, Naxxramas, Culling of Stratholme, Strand of the Ancients (BG), Orgrimmar Arena, Dalaran Arena, Lake Wintergrasp, Death Knights, Northrend, Level cap raise to 80, Professions raised to 450, siege weapons, flying vehicles, multi-person mounts, destructable keeps, phasing

Originally posted by floppyface

Originally posted by Daffid011

If classic wow was better than any other version then people simply wouldn't play the expansion, quit or do something other than go to northrend. People don't need classic servers now, they can already do that by not purchasing the expansion.

1) Again, are you trolling or just plain stupid? Classic WoW was the best but BC was pretty good in itself. WotLK is a steaming pile of crap but I played BC from the day it come out until WotLK came. One of my best memories in WoW is downing Kael'thas in TK (months before 2.4) and heading over to CoT and getting to zone in Hyjal for my first time, downing Rage Winterchill and then heading over to take a look at BT. Karazhan was a great raid instance. Besides Vashj/Kael the rest of TK/SSC was ok, not great and Gruul and Mag were interesting in their own way. Professions were actually useful and not gimmicky. The introduction of dailies was a good thing. BC was far from perfect and the levelling process was fun the first time but by the time I was levelling my 5th character in Outlands I want to tear my eyes out. I still enjoyed the 1-58 levels in Azeroth the 5th time. While heroics were a good idea the design of the 13 Outland instances was terrible (CoT 5 mans and magister's terrace were good). The Auchidoun instances were just plain AWFUL.

2) Obviously the concept of preferring Classic WoW but still being able to enjoy BC is beyond you.

3) And I know you never raided pre-BC the talents, abilities and game mechanics have radically changed since pre-BC. AND DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU FOR THE 164TH TIME THAT 40 MAN NAXX IS NO LONGER IN THE GAME? Even with a non-expansion account lvl 60 content is just radically different in 3.08 than it was 1.12

Perhaps blizzard sees no need to open one, because there is no need.  It isn't like DAOC where atlantis ruined the game and they lost massive subscriptions over how horrible the expansion was.  The reality is that more people play now than during classic.  Servers have log in ques, they are splitting overloaded populations to new servers, etc.

4) Read the WoW forums lately? Every 2nd post is people asking for classic servers. Look at the amount of lvl 60 guilds forming - even with the knowledge that 40 man naxx is no longer available. Go ask someone from the guild Heralds of Yore on Smolderthorn how many new member they have got lately. I'll give you a hint: lots. And the people who played DAoC were a lot more discerning about the game they played. Blizzard could serve up any slop and the millions of plebs who can't do anything  but chant the "Blizzard is the almighty and WoW is perfect" mantra will eat it up. A person who can play 6 different instruments, can read and write music and has a musical education is going to be more discerning than a 14 year old teeny bopper idiot. And thats who plays WoW these days. Teeny bopper idiots who wouldn't know quality if it bit them on the ass.

I doubt you could be any further from reality if you tried.  Classic servers are nothing but a pander to former customers. 

5) And the brain dead raid simple content in WotLK is to pander to the awful idiots who play the game now. The keyboard turning, clicking terribads who never put in any effort in and expect everything handed to them on a silver platter.

 

1) You are speaking of your OPINION on what makes the game good.  You then go on to speak as if your opinion is the universal truth for everyone and anyone attempting to think any other way is somehow an idiot.  You need to get over yourself and consider the fact that maybe you are just a small minority that think this way.   As much as I would love to play original ultima online again I am realistic enough to know that it will never be the same.  Nor do I demand EA make a server just for me and call anyone enjoying the current game idiots as if they are somehow a lesser player than myself.  Time stands still for no man, get used to that or get used to disappointment.

2) Nope, I fully understand that people may love the old world more than the new content.  Nothing wrong with that, but I don't feel the need to call them retards and idiots for enjoying something that I have personally outgrown and moved on from.  Perhaps you should check your ego at the door and try to walk a mile in someone else shoes?

3) When have we ever talked about 40 man naxx?  I don't recall it, let alone talked about it so much that you need to jump up and down screaming at me about it.   You would also be incorrect about me not raiding pre-bc.  Yes the game was harder back then, but I had already done much of naxx so it wasn't a big obsticle for me in this expansion.  Yes the game has changed, but guess what?  That is what happens in every single mmo.  Why should a game freeze progress in time just for a few people and have to support 2 code bases?  Assuming you even share the same opinion with enough people of when the old game was at its best, but that is just you assuming your opinion is the only truth.  Nothing new there.

4) Yay more hyperbole from you!  Ever second post is a cry for classic servers?  People must be leaving in droves then... oh wait.    Ok, post me a few hundred links since they are everywhere on the forums or else stop exaggerating so that you feel validated.

5) Kudos to you for using hip coolguy internet lingo to talk down to other players.  Your internet street cred has increased by 1.   Does that somehow make your opinions valid or just make you a self rightious <mod edit>? 

The only ignorant people are the Washed Up former WoW players that could not hack it, now they come here and vote wow number #21 out of spite and bitterness. I'm sure most of them are having fun playing whatever Grindy Asian game they have subbed for WoW, maybe MU online or perhaps Monoto Esperit or whatever it's called. I'm sure their current gaming experience is both breathtaking and engrossing, which is why they are here all the time, oh wait.

Face the facts here, just the facts, WoW is on top and will STAY on top. These so called wow killers like WAR or AOC will only fail, and have failed. Just go to WAR forums for proof of failure.

Laughable trying to put WoW in a defensive position, when wow is in charge and Ahead. It's like Obama said. " I WON" as in I did not you, your the ones loosing, your the ones who need to improve your game, whatever it may be. I will enjoy life at the top of the MMO world thank you.  

Don't be a Playa Hater, Biggie said it best.

This site's audience is primarily experienced and/or hardcore MMO players, which is the exact audience WoW has been moving away from since TBC.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense that WoW would be relatively unpopular on this site.  Happy WoW players don't come here, why should they when they have the official forums?

While i don't play WoW anymore I respect it as a good game in its own right.  It's brought a lot of new people into the genre and is a great game for casuals who wouldn't be able to do much (if anything) in other MMOs.

Originally posted by Deestroy

The only ignorant people are the Washed Up former WoW players that could not hack it, now they come here and vote wow number #21 out of spite and bitterness. I'm sure most of them are having fun playing whatever Grindy Asian game they have subbed for WoW, maybe MU online or perhaps Monoto Esperit or whatever it's called. I'm sure their current gaming experience is both breathtaking and engrossing, which is why they are here all the time, oh wait.

Face the facts here, just the facts, WoW is on top and will STAY on top. These so called wow killers like WAR or AOC will only fail, and have failed. Just go to WAR forums for proof of failure.

Laughable trying to put WoW in a defensive position, when wow is in charge and Ahead. It's like Obama said. " I WON" as in I did not you, your the ones loosing, your the ones who need to improve your game, whatever it may be. I will enjoy life at the top of the MMO world thank you.  

Don't be a Playa Hater, Biggie said it best.

You know.  Maybe it isn't all bitter former WoW players trashing the game.  You WoW defenders love to remind everyone that 10 million people play the game.  Lets not forget the roughly 6.75 Billion people who don't have a WoW subscription.  Maybe some of those guys are the ones who gave it a low rating. 

I have never had a WoW subscription, but my brother and a bunch of my friends do.,.. and I think the game sucks.  If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics... I can say it isn't my cup of tea... and I can name 15 MMOs that are more compelling to me.  I mean, I have been playing MMOs for several years, and was never interested enough in WoW to subscribe to it... even for a trial.  I went to the website a few times when I was between games, but every time their promotional screenshots talked me out of downloading the client.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Deestroy

The only ignorant people are the Washed Up former WoW players that could not hack it, now they come here and vote wow number #21 out of spite and bitterness. I'm sure most of them are having fun playing whatever Grindy Asian game they have subbed for WoW, maybe MU online or perhaps Monoto Esperit or whatever it's called. I'm sure their current gaming experience is both breathtaking and engrossing, which is why they are here all the time, oh wait.

Face the facts here, just the facts, WoW is on top and will STAY on top. These so called wow killers like WAR or AOC will only fail, and have failed. Just go to WAR forums for proof of failure.

Laughable trying to put WoW in a defensive position, when wow is in charge and Ahead. It's like Obama said. " I WON" as in I did not you, your the ones loosing, your the ones who need to improve your game, whatever it may be. I will enjoy life at the top of the MMO world thank you.  

Don't be a Playa Hater, Biggie said it best.

 

You know.  Maybe it isn't all bitter former WoW players trashing the game.  You WoW defenders love to remind everyone that 10 million people play the game.  Lets not forget the roughly 6.75 Billion people who don't have a WoW subscription.  Maybe some of those guys are the ones who gave it a low rating. 

I have never had a WoW subscription, but my brother and a bunch of my friends do.,.. and I think the game sucks.  If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics... I can say it isn't my cup of tea... and I can name 15 MMOs that are more compelling to me.  I mean, I have been playing MMOs for several years, and was never interested enough in WoW to subscribe to it... even for a trial.  I went to the website a few times when I was between games, but every time their promotional screenshots talked me out of downloading the client.

WoW's graphics are top of the line even by current standards, perhaps if you've seen some of the terrible animations and graphics from Darkfall. Take Aion for instance, just a bad attempt at copying what works for WoW and putting wings on them. So even a game that has a modern graphics engine is still trying to copy WOW.

Actually its not 10 milion its, over 11.5 million and I imagine that number will only grow with time, as wow goes on and more players start playing WoW is the only real place to go.You think new young kids want to play something Dull like Eve or  a bad WoW copy like Darkfall or Aion, maybe a free wow Copy like Free Realms or 4 Story, No of course they don't they want the REAL thing. And Wow is the real thing, live with it.

The new wow areas are buitiful and I cant see why not to play it now, with end game and pvp coming on even stronger than ever, WoW is primed and ready for new growth. Hate wow all you want or vote on the meaningless hate wow site, doesn't matter. WoW rules this market, period.

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 
You know.  Maybe it isn't all bitter former WoW players trashing the game.  You WoW defenders love to remind everyone that 10 million people play the game.  Lets not forget the roughly 6.75 Billion people who don't have a WoW subscription.  Maybe some of those guys are the ones who gave it a low rating. 

I have never had a WoW subscription, but my brother and a bunch of my friends do.,.. and I think the game sucks. If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics... I can say it isn't my cup of tea... and I can name 15 MMOs that are more compelling to me.

---

What 6.75 BILLION? Are you talking about billions of the world's population not liking Wow? Cause even if you are saying it is only 6.75 million accounts instead of 10 million...

Let's try it this way:

10.0 million subs
-6.75 million subs
---------------
= 3.25 million subs.

That's still over 3 million more subscriptions over the next competitor. So your point is... what, exactly?

And this part:

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris: I have never had a WoW subscription..... and I think the game sucks. If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics...

---

So you're saying, that if there was NO other reason Wow was bad (gameplay, price, support, maintainance, coding, etc) if ALL that was good, you'd STILL hate Wow because it has "piss poor graphics"? So the most important thing to you is your game must have great graphics, but that other stuff isn't that important?

Interesting.

 I'd consider myself a Veteran on your list, like a ton of peepz floating around here my mmo-resume consists of starting out as a young man in awe of what UO was, getting addicted to EQ for the better part of 4 years, and then jumping from one game to the next seeking beta keys and that 'fresh' feeling again.

WoW is the number 1 mmorpg on the market, in the future it will be written down as the number 1 mmorpg of all time. It came, it saw, it conquored, and it will continue to do so for some time to come. The majority of the people floating around mmorpg.com generally consist of people looking for the next big thing rather than what's ruling the day. It was the same way prior to WoW with people wondering what was up with all of the EQ bashing and why games like Anarchy Online and Shadowbane weren't getting the props they deserved. LoL

Do I honestly think there's 20 better games than WoW out there? No. Do I think a lot of people leaving WoW and looking for something new felt oblighed to hate on their old lover? Yup.

I think the community here is a collective of people wanting something new. WoW's the number 1 mmorpg out there, no doubt for a variety of reasons, it's just not fresh.

Should've seen the EQ2 community as it was dying and they had everyone giving nothing but props here to make it number one on the list. LoL 
It happens I guess. It's the crazy ex-girlfriend mentality.

Originally posted by eburn

Should've seen the EQ2 community as it was dying and they had everyone giving nothing but props here to make it number one on the list. LoL 
It happens I guess. It's the crazy ex-girlfriend mentality.

Huh? I wouldn't say EQ2 "died". I still play and there is a decent population and a solid game.

Originally posted by Recant

So I checked the ratings on this site and according to the list, World of Warcraft is rated at around number 21 of all released MMORPGs.  Ouch.   Okay, so I play WoW, but my intention behind this post is not to tell you that you're wrong or voting badly, but merely to ask the following:

Do you honestly believe that there are 20 better  MMORPGs than WoW (or at least closely comparable)?  

If you are at all willing to answer, perhaps you would be inclined estimate how the following might rank WoW as well, I assume there are none around to ask directly:

a) Professional opinion -(what other game developers might think.)
b) Pseudo-professional opinion -(what games journalists might think.)
c) A typical PC-gamer's opinion - (what a person who might enjoy games such as Half-Life, Fallout 3, Red Alert 3, etc might think)
d) The 'Veteran' - what someone that has played more than a couple of MMORPGs for signfiicant periods of time might think.  Actually I think that includes most of us.
 

There's no rhetoric behind that question, if you really believe that that there are 20, or even 50 better MMORPGs, then that's fine with me. 

 

 You know, we can tell by your signature you have an agenda.

World of Warcraft is McDonalds.  It's easy to find (thanks to lots of advertising), it's easy to get into, and it's easy to get addicted to.

You, as a World of Warcraft fan, are the fat guy from Supersize me.  Congratulations.

The rankings are done by asking the members here about their opinions of the various aspects of a game.  They are not, a ranking of the games pesented "this is first, this is second" and so on.  So your first question "Do you honestly believe there are 20 games better than Warcraft?" is moot.

There are obviously 20 games better than warcraft when it comes to:

1. Graphics

2. Community

3. Roleplaying

4. Service

Since WoW is behind many games in half  of the attributes that they score on here, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it doesn't rank very high.

Enjoy your Big Mac.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 

 
You know.  Maybe it isn't all bitter former WoW players trashing the game.  You WoW defenders love to remind everyone that 10 million people play the game.  Lets not forget the roughly 6.75 Billion people who don't have a WoW subscription.  Maybe some of those guys are the ones who gave it a low rating. 

I have never had a WoW subscription, but my brother and a bunch of my friends do.,.. and I think the game sucks. If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics... I can say it isn't my cup of tea... and I can name 15 MMOs that are more compelling to me.

---

 

 

What 6.75 BILLION? Are you talking about billions of the world's population not liking Wow? Cause even if you are saying it is only 6.75 million accounts instead of 10 million...

Let's try it this way:

10.0 million subs
-6.75 million subs
---------------
= 3.25 million subs.

That's still over 3 million more subscriptions over the next competitor. So your point is... what, exactly?

And this part:

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris: I have never had a WoW subscription..... and I think the game sucks. If for no other reason than the piss poor graphics...

---

 

So you're saying, that if there was NO other reason Wow was bad (gameplay, price, support, maintainance, coding, etc) if ALL that was good, you'd STILL hate Wow because it has "piss poor graphics"? So the most important thing to you is your game must have great graphics, but that other stuff isn't that important?

 

Interesting.

Yep.. I meant billion.  I am saying that it isn't just bitter ex wow vets that have a poor opinion of the game.  There are also people who decided upon close inspection that it wasn't even worth their time.. like me.  I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

And no, graphics aren't the only thing that matter to me.  If they were, I'd be playing AOC.  But they are one of the factors I consider.  Anyone who says WoW's graphics are "top notch" by todays standards is either a liar or a fool.  The game may have looked good in it's time.  But times change, and they can only put so much lipstick on that pig.  You guys who blindly believe that WoW will just continue to grow and grow, while running 5,7,10 year old code are deluded.  No piece of software is immune to obselecence... not even World of Warcraft.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Yep.. I meant billion.  I am saying that it isn't just bitter ex wow vets that have a poor opinion of the game.  There are also people who decided upon close inspection that it wasn't even worth their time.. like me.  I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

And no, graphics aren't the only thing that matter to me.  If they were, I'd be playing AOC.  But they are one of the factors I consider.  Anyone who says WoW's graphics are "top notch" by todays standards is either a liar or a fool.  The game may have looked good in it's time.  But times change, and they can only put so much lipstick on that pig.  You guys who blindly believe that WoW will just continue to grow and grow, while running 5,7,10 year old code are deluded.  No piece of software is immune to obselecence... not even World of Warcraft.

The visuals of Wrath of the Lich King are fantastic.

Here , so I am liar and a fool to you.

But put on ALL options (shadowing etc...) in Wrath and you have fantastic visuals:-

- Flying over the lands you adventure in. You have flying personal carpets, helicopters, dragons, rockets to give an awesome view over forests, lakes, villages, mountains... and you can land everywhere

- MASSIVE battles these days give  100's of Alliance players against 100's of Horde players on the battlefield.

- And - I bet you don't even know - the latest gear has WAY up more pixels than you ever saw in Wow.

To top it all, we now have a full 3D armor site to look at your avatars off game.

http://www.3darmory.com/

So before commenting on graphics ----> inform you about the latest visual developments in WotLK

As visuals mean a LOT more than pixels/vectors you should study about the art of ... art before commenting.

In fact the visuals in a game like Wow are far more timeless than so called "realistic" visuals.

Have a look at the animated Beowulf. Hardly 3 year old, it is already looking VERY dated. Therefore the cartoon look of Warcraft is far more suited to stand the age of time.

Compare it to the animated Disney Classics of 70(!) years ago like Snow White and then go see a "realistic" movie from that time.

I bet most children would think the animated Snow White was made only a few years ago, while the "realistic" picture is dated the moment it is canned.

--------------

PS. This site is visited by a few hundred Wow haters, because they don't like the gigantic success this game has. Simple ast that. They don't represent ANYTHING, apart from a few frustrated kids who just have No idea what a good game design is all about.

History will tell that World of Warcraft was by far the best and most succesful MMORPG of the first decade of this century and it made the foundation of further evolution of on line games possible.

Reread that last sentence : no other mmorpg comes even close to that statement above unless you are "a liar and a fool".

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Yep.. I meant billion.  I am saying that it isn't just bitter ex wow vets that have a poor opinion of the game.  There are also people who decided upon close inspection that it wasn't even worth their time.. like me.  I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

And no, graphics aren't the only thing that matter to me.  If they were, I'd be playing AOC.  But they are one of the factors I consider.  Anyone who says WoW's graphics are "top notch" by todays standards is either a liar or a fool.  The game may have looked good in it's time.  But times change, and they can only put so much lipstick on that pig.  You guys who blindly believe that WoW will just continue to grow and grow, while running 5,7,10 year old code are deluded.  No piece of software is immune to obselecence... not even World of Warcraft.

 

The visuals of Wrath of the Lich King are fantastic.

Here , so I am liar and a fool to you.

But put on ALL options (shadowing etc...) in Wrath and you have fantastic visuals:-

Compared to Street fighter 2 yes, any new game out currently....... erm no.

- Flying over the lands you adventure in. You have flying personal carpets, helicopters, dragons, rockets to give an awesome view over forests, lakes, villages, mountains... and you can land everywhere

Your using this as an example to Impress people?

- MASSIVE battles these days give  100's of Alliance players against 100's of Horde players on the battlefield.

If there's no server crash,

- And - I bet you don't even know - the latest gear has WAY up more pixels than you ever saw in Wow.

64?

To top it all, we now have a full 3D armor site to look at your avatars off game.

And that's pretty meaningless

http://www.3darmory.com/

So before commenting on graphics ----> inform you about the latest visual developments in WotLK

As visuals mean a LOT more than pixels/vectors you should study about the art of ... art before commenting.

In fact the visuals in a game like Wow are far more timeless than so called "realistic" visuals.

Have a look at the animated Beowulf. Hardly 3 year old, it is already looking VERY dated. Therefore the cartoon look of Warcraft is far more suited to stand the age of time.

Compare it to the animated Disney Classics of 70(!) years ago like Snow White and then go see a "realistic" movie from that time.

I bet most children would think the animated Snow White was made only a few years ago, while the "realistic" picture is dated the moment it is canned.

Having studied art, your description as " Timeless" as if the game is the Mona Lisa, well heh heh, yeh ok. WoW is not timeless, it's certainly not a work of Art its a commercial success. Stand the age of time?  I doubt 500 years from now historians will read  the sacred chronicles of WoW, GET REAL.

--------------

PS. This site is visited by a few hundred Wow haters, because they don't like the gigantic success this game has. Simple ast that. They don't represent ANYTHING, apart from a few frustrated kids who just have No idea what a good game design is all about.

History will tell that World of Warcraft was by far the best and most succesful MMORPG of the first decade of this century and it made the foundation of further evolution of on line games possible.

Reread that last sentence : no other mmorpg comes even close to that statement above unless you are "a liar and a fool"

So? a new game claimes that every 4 years or so, thinking that makes you a special snowflake, is crazy.

 

 

All in all a good attempt as usual bodypass. Your strategy of putting multiple lies in a single thread is not bad, I went ahead and put some edits in there so others may understand it better.

Your pissing contest is boring. If you two want to stalk each other, at least do it in style.

Originally posted by Salvatoris 

I was putting the extremely inflated figure of 10 million in perspective.  So 10 million people play it, there are another 6.75 Billion people on the globe that don't play it.
 

 

Using this type of logic is rather flawed.  If it were the case then nothing could possibly have any value unless the entire world engaged in it.

Also, isn't it pretty hard to have anything more than a passing opinion of something you have never played?  I'm just curious how your dislike of the graphical style and never actually having an account equates to the conclusion that a game sucks.  

The ranking of World of Warcraft on mmorpg.com versus the people who really like the game are clearly disproportionate.  Being on this website is like going over to your grandfather's house and having to listen to his opinion on everything because he will angrily insist he's right.  Sure grandpa, whatever you say...   Other things people love to hate:

1.) The President / government

2.) The media

3.) Our parents

4.) Our spouse

5.) Customer Service

6.) Banks

7.) The driver ahead of us

8.) Our boss / co-worker(s)

9.) Anyone who has something we want.