Originally posted by Cerza

Blizzard could make a sand box game sure, but I doubt they will, because as others have stated the consumer base for that type of a game is too niche. You don't turn a massive profit like Blizz does by catering to a niche crowd, you do it by catering to the masses. That's just common business sense.

Also, Blizzard is a big company and a big company needs to turn a big profit in order to sustain itself and turn an even bigger profit in order to keep growing. Big companies tend to be rather conservative in their approach to what they do with their product and Blizzard is no exception. This is because they know that one failure is all it takes to put them and their parent company in the red and then they would be in serious trouble. This is why Indy devs are best for this sort of thing (sandbox games and playstyles), because they have less to loose and don't have the status larger companies do so they have to try harder to get their product noticed and make their name known. This allows them to be more willing to try things that would be considered high risk from a bigger companys perspective. After all why would a buyer want to play the game from the little company if its the same things as the one from the big company, and since the big company has more money their game is obviously recieving better care, or so the average consumer thinks. So the big guy just watches the little guy as he tinkers and trys different things and sees what works and what doesn't and then takes those things, or some variant of them and incorporates them into their own game in a manner that works for their clients and everyone loves them for it. Why? Because the big guy caters to the masses, and the masses have never heard of the little guy.

As I Said before the comment that blizz wont make a sandbox because its too niche is short sighted, MMOs were niche and blizzard spent about 5 years amd millions of $ making WoW. why wont they do it again?
 

WoW grew the MMO genre like no other game, no reason a sandbox game by blizzard wont do the same.

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by Cerza

Blizzard could make a sand box game sure, but I doubt they will, because as others have stated the consumer base for that type of a game is too niche. You don't turn a massive profit like Blizz does by catering to a niche crowd, you do it by catering to the masses. That's just common business sense.

Also, Blizzard is a big company and a big company needs to turn a big profit in order to sustain itself and turn an even bigger profit in order to keep growing. Big companies tend to be rather conservative in their approach to what they do with their product and Blizzard is no exception. This is because they know that one failure is all it takes to put them and their parent company in the red and then they would be in serious trouble. This is why Indy devs are best for this sort of thing (sandbox games and playstyles), because they have less to loose and don't have the status larger companies do so they have to try harder to get their product noticed and make their name known. This allows them to be more willing to try things that would be considered high risk from a bigger companys perspective. After all why would a buyer want to play the game from the little company if its the same things as the one from the big company, and since the big company has more money their game is obviously recieving better care, or so the average consumer thinks. So the big guy just watches the little guy as he tinkers and trys different things and sees what works and what doesn't and then takes those things, or some variant of them and incorporates them into their own game in a manner that works for their clients and everyone loves them for it. Why? Because the big guy caters to the masses, and the masses have never heard of the little guy.

As I Said before the comment that blizz wont make a sandbox because its too niche is short sighted, MMOs were niche and blizzard spent about 5 years amd millions of $ making WoW. why wont they do it again?
 

WoW grew the MMO genre like no other game, no reason a sandbox game by blizzard wont do the same.

Bliz makes no distinction between a niche market or not, they get people into it regardless. Isometric games have become fairly niche, yet they are repopularizing them with Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2. Bliz has the balls to take risks only when they feel comfortable with them. WoW was a test, their first venture into mmorpgs..and they have become SO rich from it, and learned so much, they can take bigger chances and allow a bigger budget in which to do something different but right.

Lest we forget, the Diablo-genre was also very much a niche-genre when Blizzard decided to take a chance with it. For those who are not familiar with the concept, I'm talking about the Rogue-like genre of games, one of the oldest genres in gaming actually: text-based dungeon-crawls using simple ASCII graphics to represent the gameworld, but with alot of complexity in it's gameplay (much of which was taken out and simplified for Diablo actually), especially games like Nethack and Adom, games still in (more or less active) development, and free to download btw, go check them out, you might get hooked :)

Anyhow, back to the topic, just saying that Blizzard are no strangers to taking niche or fringe-genres, polishing them up, giving them a new graphical interface, and in the process making them more accessible/simplified (depending on your perspective) and making popular/casual and playable games out of them, so who knows what could do with the sandbox-MMO genre if they put their minds to it!

Originally posted by Ordero

Lest we forget, the Diablo-genre was also very much a niche-genre when Blizzard decided to take a chance with it. For those who are not familiar with the concept, I'm talking about the Rogue-like genre of games, one of the oldest genres in gaming actually: text-based dungeon-crawls using simple ASCII graphics to represent the gameworld, but with alot of complexity in it's gameplay (much of which was taken out and simplified for Diablo actually), especially games like Nethack and Adom, games still in (more or less active) development, and free to download btw, go check them out, you might get hooked :)

Anyhow, back to the topic, just saying that Blizzard are no strangers to taking niche or fringe-genres, polishing them up, giving them a new graphical interface, and in the process making them more accessible/simplified (depending on your perspective) and making popular/casual and playable games out of them, so who knows what could do with the sandbox-MMO genre if they put their minds to it!

 

Diablo a niche genre ? The series sold over 2 million which during that time is outstanding. Diablo 3 will probably out sell many mmos when it releases. I think Blizzard can pull of any type of game and be successfull. Though in one of their lates interviews they have stated they are hoping that WOW still goes strong while they release their new mmo.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Ordero

Lest we forget, the Diablo-genre was also very much a niche-genre when Blizzard decided to take a chance with it. For those who are not familiar with the concept, I'm talking about the Rogue-like genre of games, one of the oldest genres in gaming actually: text-based dungeon-crawls using simple ASCII graphics to represent the gameworld, but with alot of complexity in it's gameplay (much of which was taken out and simplified for Diablo actually), especially games like Nethack and Adom, games still in (more or less active) development, and free to download btw, go check them out, you might get hooked :)

Anyhow, back to the topic, just saying that Blizzard are no strangers to taking niche or fringe-genres, polishing them up, giving them a new graphical interface, and in the process making them more accessible/simplified (depending on your perspective) and making popular/casual and playable games out of them, so who knows what could do with the sandbox-MMO genre if they put their minds to it!

 

 

Diablo a niche genre ? The series sold over 2 million which during that time is outstanding. Diablo 3 will probably out sell many mmos when it releases. I think Blizzard can pull of any type of game and be successfull. Though in one of their lates interviews they have stated they are hoping that WOW still goes strong while they release their new mmo.

Ordero was proving that Blizzard has the balls to venture into niche markets and end up with a hit. The isometric RPG genre was niche before Diablo came out, then Blizz hit it big and it became popular. The same thing happened with WoW. MMOs were a niche market with only a couple million players before WoW, but Blizz popularized it. The point is that they are not scared to enter niche markets, and on the occasions that htey have done so, the market ended up bigger.

Originally posted by Stormreaver

It's actually quite likely that Blizzard's next game will be a sandbox MMO. Like paulscott said, another linear themepark would be in direct competition with WoW, and why would they want players on only one of their games if they have two released? Basically, Blizz is currently in a position where their next game will get at least a few million subscribers regardless of how good it is and what type of gameplay it involves.

If Blizzard decides to go the sandbox route, they could have the entire market cornered. I'm not talking about 11 million subscribers on both games, but I'm talking about stealing away all the players the endlessly complain about how linear all the MMOs are these days. If I was Blizzard, I would take the sandbox route. Of course, there are always players that won't play a Blizzard game on principle (which I find ridiculous), but I'm guessing they are a very small minority.

Then again, the question was whether or not Blizzard could pull it off. Blizzard is lightyears ahead of many companies when it comes to artistic direction, polish, and fully fleshed-out gameplay. There is no doubt in my mind that they are capable of creating an amazing sandbox experience.

I could quote the OP to.. but this post is a good point to start with.

You are wrong.. Blizzard will not do a sandbox game.

Why you ask?

Because there is not one successful sandbox game out there, and Blizzards will not touch something, which isnt a 100% success.. they just polish up successful ideas and gamestyles.

Competition arguement?

Well it wasn a problem with Warcraft/Starcraft, it will not be a problem in the mmorpg market. Look, WoW is a old game.. and a lot of player maybe want after 10 years(because the new blizzard game will take some time) something new.. or at least something in new clothes(same analogie.. Warcraft 1 to 2 to 3)

But you say there was nothing other available at the RTS segment?

There was.. the concept behind Z(Bitmap Brothers)(no ressource gathering and more tactical approach) and Relic(DoW and Company of Heroes) took those idea and worked with it. Not so Blizzard with Starcraft.. again, because Z was not a huge financial success.

With other words, the new Blizzard game will be like the successful games in the mmorpg genres. What games are successful in the mmorpg genre? World of  Warcraft. So it will be another WoW in new clothes and a few improvements here and there.. and of course another theme. (they may also take some ideas from Guild Wars or other games as successful as Guild Wars or World of Warcraft)

And shall i say some more? It will be successful, and WoW will also do good that time.. because a lot of ppl have a lot of time invested there.. a lot of items and so on. But some will try the new one, like ppl which didnt like the fantasy setting so much or anything like that.. but basicly it will be WoW again.

At least my prediction, my 2 cent.

They could.

But first they'll have to wipe their workers' memory of the horiffic process of slowly ripping a game out of freedom and challenge to keep the herdlike community playing. And put their minds in miniature cyborgs in a artificial world where WoW never happened to supress the memories.

And it will probably still turn out a sandbox-lite.

Originally posted by Apraxis

I could quote the OP to.. but this post is a good point to start with.

 

You are wrong.. Blizzard will not do a sandbox game.

Why you ask?

Because there is not one successful sandbox game out there, and Blizzards will not touch something, which isnt a 100% success.. they just polish up successful ideas and gamestyles.

Competition arguement?

Well it wasn a problem with Warcraft/Starcraft, it will not be a problem in the mmorpg market. Look, WoW is a old game.. and a lot of player maybe want after 10 years(because the new blizzard game will take some time) something new.. or at least something in new clothes(same analogie.. Warcraft 1 to 2 to 3)

But you say there was nothing other available at the RTS segment?

There was.. the concept behind Z(Bitmap Brothers)(no ressource gathering and more tactical approach) and Relic(DoW and Company of Heroes) took those idea and worked with it. Not so Blizzard with Starcraft.. again, because Z was not a huge financial success.

With other words, the new Blizzard game will be like the successful games in the mmorpg genres. What games are successful in the mmorpg genre? World of  Warcraft. So it will be another WoW in new clothes and a few improvements here and there.. and of course another theme. (they may also take some ideas from Guild Wars or other games as successful as Guild Wars or World of Warcraft)

And shall i say some more? It will be successful, and WoW will also do good that time.. because a lot of ppl have a lot of time invested there.. a lot of items and so on. But some will try the new one, like ppl which didnt like the fantasy setting so much or anything like that.. but basicly it will be WoW again.

At least my prediction, my 2 cent.

You're kind of arguing against your own point. First of all, I never mentioned RTS games, and I'm fully aware that RTS games existed before WC/SC just as isometric RPGs existed before Diablo and MMOs existed before WoW. Secondly, there are plenty of successful sandbox games, depending on your definitions of "successful" and "sandbox." If WoW is your definition of "success," then no MMOs except for WoW are successful. However, sandbox games like EvE and Runescape have 250k and 1M subscribers respectively, and I would consider both of those successful figures.

Thirdly, Blizzard has let people know that they are working on a new MMO. This isn't the same as announcing it or hyping it, but its existance means that it will likely be released in the next 4-5 years, not 10.

You say that Blizzard merely takes successful genres and polishes them. By your logic, the MMO genre was successful before Blizzard released WoW, but most games pre-WoW had max 500k subscribers. Now you're saying that games with 250k/1M (EvE/Runescape) are not successful?

Basically, you're contradicting yourself in so many ways that it's confusing me. At most points in Blizzard's history when they ventured into a new game genre, the genre in question was financially stable but not commercially successful. Games like Warcraft, Diablo, and World of Warcraft all exploded the RTS, isometric RPG, and themepark MMO genres respectively, so why would Blizzard not want to venture into sandbox territory? Games like EvE and Runescape have proved that it can be done, so if Blizzard follows their history, they should be able to make the sandbox genre blow up as well.

Originally posted by Apraxis

I could quote the OP to.. but this post is a good point to start with.

 

You are wrong.. Blizzard will not do a sandbox game.

Why you ask?

Because there is not one successful sandbox game out there, and Blizzards will not touch something, which isnt a 100% success.. they just polish up successful ideas and gamestyles.

Two words "EvE Online".

Ok. First of all Runescape is more or less a free to play game you cant really count it.

And about EvE.. it is a success for a independent company.. but never for a major company.. they started as small as with 50 k subs.. and increased over a long time to now around 250k. That is nothing for a major company and withit a huge budget.

Look Mythic said, they would at least need 500k subs to count it as a success, and the same and even more is true for Blizzard.. not just 500k in a few years, but from the get go.

And thats true.. beside of EQ1 and WoW there are barely successful MMORPGs around. They both got more then 500k in NA/EU. You really have to diver what success is for a major company, or a small indipendent company. Hell.. a lot of developers even declared SWG was a financial failure.. and that got at least in the beginning around 500k. So.. EvE Online is not a successful game/concept in the eyes of a major company like Blizzard.

Q:  Could Blizzard Pull Off a Sandbox-Type MMORPG?

A: Yes.

Long answer:

Of course they could!  They have the infrastructure, the money, the game developers, and the player base to not only pull it off, but make it with style!  The real question is not COULD they, but is it likely?  I don't know the answer to that, but I hope so!

    Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Stormreaver

It's actually quite likely that Blizzard's next game will be a sandbox MMO. Like paulscott said, another linear themepark would be in direct competition with WoW, and why would they want players on only one of their games if they have two released? Basically, Blizz is currently in a position where their next game will get at least a few million subscribers regardless of how good it is and what type of gameplay it involves.

If Blizzard decides to go the sandbox route, they could have the entire market cornered. I'm not talking about 11 million subscribers on both games, but I'm talking about stealing away all the players the endlessly complain about how linear all the MMOs are these days. If I was Blizzard, I would take the sandbox route. Of course, there are always players that won't play a Blizzard game on principle (which I find ridiculous), but I'm guessing they are a very small minority.

Then again, the question was whether or not Blizzard could pull it off. Blizzard is lightyears ahead of many companies when it comes to artistic direction, polish, and fully fleshed-out gameplay. There is no doubt in my mind that they are capable of creating an amazing sandbox experience.

I could quote the OP to.. but this post is a good point to start with.

 

You are wrong.. Blizzard will not do a sandbox game.

Why you ask?

Because there is not one successful sandbox game out there, and Blizzards will not touch something, which isnt a 100% success.. they just polish up successful ideas and gamestyles.

Competition arguement?

Well it wasn a problem with Warcraft/Starcraft, it will not be a problem in the mmorpg market. Look, WoW is a old game.. and a lot of player maybe want after 10 years(because the new blizzard game will take some time) something new.. or at least something in new clothes(same analogie.. Warcraft 1 to 2 to 3)

But you say there was nothing other available at the RTS segment?

There was.. the concept behind Z(Bitmap Brothers)(no ressource gathering and more tactical approach) and Relic(DoW and Company of Heroes) took those idea and worked with it. Not so Blizzard with Starcraft.. again, because Z was not a huge financial success.

With other words, the new Blizzard game will be like the successful games in the mmorpg genres. What games are successful in the mmorpg genre? World of  Warcraft. So it will be another WoW in new clothes and a few improvements here and there.. and of course another theme. (they may also take some ideas from Guild Wars or other games as successful as Guild Wars or World of Warcraft)

And shall i say some more? It will be successful, and WoW will also do good that time.. because a lot of ppl have a lot of time invested there.. a lot of items and so on. But some will try the new one, like ppl which didnt like the fantasy setting so much or anything like that.. but basicly it will be WoW again.

At least my prediction, my 2 cent.     

Eve Online is one the FEW mmorpgs out there that is actually gaining subscribers and it's a sandbox that caters to a very hardcore crowd.

I don't want another mmorpg from Blizzard.


What Blizzard do best is telling a linear story like WC3, Starcraft and Diablo so I'd want them to make a single player RPG because that would be the most epic thing ever!

I imagine Blizzard could make any kind of game they wanted to while being fairly successful at it. It would be nice to see a new type of game by them but that won't happen 'til they make another WoW with same gameplay and better graphics and it flops.

One thing's for sure though, I'm getting tired of playing the same game with a different skin.

Originally posted by lordcvicek

Hope you're on the right path to discovering the "God" partice. Also, how's the Time machine design going along? Do all the calculations hold true? Wormholes aren't stable?

Or are you gonna try to reach lightspeed instead, so to make timetravel possible to the future first?

While me, "the avarge joe" is studying Descrete mathematics and what really is the Taylor series. how to use it and where. Something you discovered by yourself, while bored on the toilet at your 10th birthday party. You truly are a genius

A game designed for you must truly be a testament to the genius and innovation of the mind.

and fyi: An occasional cheesburger tastes awesome. Tho Kebab will always win when it comes to fastfood.

Offtopic: Very astutely put for an "average Joe". I like you.

Ontopic: They could, but they won't.

as long as wow continues to be succesful, then there will be little reason to actualy make a better MMO.

I see people have these types of questions all the time..I on the other hand wish someone would come out with something better.. Could Blizzard do it? perhaps.. And we have had these questions as to WHAT a sandbox is?? Is it a huge universe with no instances??-is it  a world without levels?  what defines a sandbox??

Vanguard is a huge place.. has complexity in just about all its 3 spheres (adventuring,diplomacy and crafting)  Could Blizzard make a huge world like old SWG?, Asherons call?  EQ? even?? you bet they could.. as they have the talent and most of all the funds and the fan base...but the real question is WHY would they make one??  If they would cater to the gamers that started them out in the first place.. via role playing games..

Personally, I play WoW.. I play it because my friends are here.. do alot of them enjoy trying to gear up?? not really... the only thing complex about wow is coordinating these huge end game things..

back to the beginning..  can Blizzard make a sandbox style game    again  yes...  and I wish we could get back to exploring and true adventuring and such.. bring back some death penalties and make it so we have to use our grey matter.... and most of all use the community for more than just shear numbers to complete quets and such...  happy gaming     Kwosh      ps  waiting for and hopeing for Earthrise!!!!!!!

It's quite funny how people tie WoW's success to Blizzard's hunger for money. Every company is hungry for money. It allows them to create better games and pull in better developers. EA is the company which failed to deliver due to their money hungry scheme of releasing the game when the game is "half finished" because EA wants money.

As for the topic, yes Blizzard can make sandbox MMO. After all, Blizzard is a studio where any game developers wants to get into. They provide an almost perfect environment for developers to create games(one being "Game will be ready when it's ready" set of mind). Will they make it? I have no idea.

I would LAUGH MY ASS OFF if Blizzard 'revolutionized' the MMO industry once again but this time with a laregly sandbox oriented game... something so many constantly fail at... hell I'd even look into it :p

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I don't want another mmorpg from Blizzard.


What Blizzard do best is telling a linear story like WC3, Starcraft and Diablo so I'd want them to make a single player RPG because that would be the most epic thing ever!

They are .. D3 is coming. It would be serious hack-n-slash heaven.

Why on earth would I want to play in a box full of sand? come on ppl where here to talk about games not sand, nutjobs  the lot of you, bloomin sand talking wierdo's, whats the world coming to.

Now where's my tinfoil hat.

short answer: yes

why?

because they have enough money to buy out koster and put him to work.

im sorry but i dont think theres any other designers out there that can do sandboxes right.  its koster or nobody.

Koster sounds like something to hit ppl with.

"Bring in da Koster"

"No not the Koster, anything but the Koster"