Originally posted by Agricola1

I find there is much heresy being spoken here today talk of "linear" and "instanced" also there are many of the casual play infidels among us! The Casual play infidels speak of solo centric gameplay focusing on thier 30 mins of pve grinding, well I say no!

No to the darkside, no to a step backward in to the age of wickdness! We Brothers and Sisters of the open sandbox enviroment that believe in a Jedi class that isn't handed to you on a plate mush band together. We must take the casual play infidels that wish Jedi to be given to them and burn them until thier fire brings back light to the MMORPG world and light to SWtOR!

I see no value in a Jedi class handed to you, just the same as everyother. So that all we end up with is an army of saber jerks around every corner ingame (unless it's heavily instanced of course!). Let it be a class that needs to be unlocked and you need to train in solitude and no NPC trainers only player masters that train? Make GMs Jedi at first for the first few to get training. Then initiate a Bounty Hunter system where Bounty Hunters can track and kill those with a price on thier head.

Anything less would just be utter wank!

Wow this guy isnt a fanatic....nope...not at all....

Originally posted by TeranHawkins

Originally posted by Agricola1

I find there is much heresy being spoken here today talk of "linear" and "instanced" also there are many of the casual play infidels among us! The Casual play infidels speak of solo centric gameplay focusing on thier 30 mins of pve grinding, well I say no!

No to the darkside, no to a step backward in to the age of wickdness! We Brothers and Sisters of the open sandbox enviroment that believe in a Jedi class that isn't handed to you on a plate mush band together. We must take the casual play infidels that wish Jedi to be given to them and burn them until thier fire brings back light to the MMORPG world and light to SWtOR!

I see no value in a Jedi class handed to you, just the same as everyother. So that all we end up with is an army of saber jerks around every corner ingame (unless it's heavily instanced of course!). Let it be a class that needs to be unlocked and you need to train in solitude and no NPC trainers only player masters that train? Make GMs Jedi at first for the first few to get training. Then initiate a Bounty Hunter system where Bounty Hunters can track and kill those with a price on thier head.

Anything less would just be utter wank!

 

Wow this guy isnt a fanatic....nope...not at all....

Says the guy with the Anakin avatar.

In SWG Online they had the Jedi set up like that. It did not work out well. It became this really annoying thing where people would get it and not even work for it and others would work their whole time and end up quitting never having played a Jedi.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by TeranHawkins

 Wow this guy isnt a fanatic....nope...not at all....

Says the guy with the Anakin avatar.

Checkmate.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

It doesn't make a lick of sense for Jedi to be anything but a vocation one begins upon character creation... unless you're proposing we all begin the game as infants.

 

I agree with this and will add that if every character aspiring to be a Jedi had to 'unlock' it, then basically what we have is a large amount of  people in the galaxy that are exceptional and allowed to take up Jedi late in life, and that doesn't work for me.

Now if they followed what Blizzard did with Wrath of the Lich King and allow you to create one new Jedi character after an existing character has met the prerequisites to unlock the Jedi class, I can see that as acceptable.

With that said, regardless of whether you unlock the class and are able to switch to the Jedi class, or have to roll up a new one after unlocking it, the type of player that the OP hates is still going to revert to a light saber wielding 7 year old in either scenario.

Originally posted by Nomad40

In SWG Online they had the Jedi set up like that. It did not work out well. It became this really annoying thing where people would get it and not even work for it and others would work their whole time and end up quitting never having played a Jedi.

 

 

Then they were obviously too weak to become true wielders of the force! To give these types a lightsaber would be a dis-service to the rest of the force wielders! Those that didn't seem to work for it were no doubt extremely force sensitive and gifted!

It is exactly this system that weeds out the weak, culls the wretched and destroys the worthless! Those are they type then end up as FOTM templates moaning about how everything is too hard, well I say we exile these heathens to SWG and be done with it!

Yes join my crusade to exponge the dead flesh of SWtOR! Kneel before the great Agricola and tremble as you would before a GOD! Man the weapons, prepare the cruisers and begin the battle meditation,

                                          DEUS VULT!

No, not in this setting.  This is back when there were tons of jedis if you followed the KOTOR stories.  SWG was a pretty hardcore game at launch.  Big companies don't take those risks anymore.  It is all about instant gratification and easily hooking the widest array of audiences and then giving them a treadmill to try and keep them hooked these days.  Jedi will be available from the start.  It will still be a pretty badass PVE game imo.

Originally posted by Agricola1

As the title said, my fear is that as soon as an adult male gets hold of a lightsaber his IQ immediately drops until he has a mental age of a socially retarded 7 year old! I don't want a game full of them! Also Jedi should have a TEF when pulling out a lightsaber even.

Jedi in my opinion should be only unlkockable by an unkown set of parameters, and then they have a tough time after that.

 

The underlined makes me suspect you are either trolling or have no clue in what time the game is set to be.

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Nomad40

In SWG Online they had the Jedi set up like that. It did not work out well. It became this really annoying thing where people would get it and not even work for it and others would work their whole time and end up quitting never having played a Jedi.

 

 

 

Then they were obviously too weak to become true wielders of the force! To give these types a lightsaber would be a dis-service to the rest of the force wielders! Those that didn't seem to work for it were no doubt extremely force sensitive and gifted!

It is exactly this system that weeds out the weak, culls the wretched and destroys the worthless! Those are they type then end up as FOTM templates moaning about how everything is too hard, well I say we exile these heathens to SWG and be done with it!

Yes join my crusade to exponge the dead flesh of SWtOR! Kneel before the great Agricola and tremble as you would before a GOD! Man the weapons, prepare the cruisers and begin the battle meditation,

 

                                          DEUS VULT!

Oh wished I read this comment before posting my last remark. Now you are being way too obvious. I cant even believe anymore that you are just stupid.

Force sensitivity should not be unlockable, but Jedi should. I don't want to see 90% of the population running around as Jedi, because no matter what you may say, that still doesn't fit the timeline. Yes, Jedi were more prominent in the KotOR timeline, but they didn't make up the majority of the population. They should still be rare to some degree.

When it comes to lore, that gets a little tricky. Jedi were supposed to start training at a very early age. Now unless you start the game as a child, it really doesn't make sense for ANYONE to "start" as a Jedi at level 1. why would a 20ish+ year old be a complete joke of a Jedi if he has been training all of his life? So if you think of it this way, then making Jedi unlockable isn't much different than starting as a Jedi when it comes to breaking lore. Besides, not the first time a Star Wars game has crapped all over it's lore for the sake of Jedi anyway.

So, I think Jedi should be unlocked by accomplishing certain unknown goals. These goals should start a secret and STAY a secret, or possibly randomized for each character created.

I'd really like to see force sensitivity be open to play a role in any character, but full fledged Jedi should be uncommon, but not have much more power than anyone else.

But, we all know where this game is heading. Jedi is going to be a starter class, because EVERYONE HAS to be a "hero". But wheneveryone is a hero, no one is. And when everyone is the same, no one is special.

/sigh.

EDIT:

I just thought of something that would be pretty funny. Since we all know this game is going to have levels(god forbid an MMO doesn't! How will I know I am doing well???), it would be really funny, fitting, and cool if people that created a Jedi started out as a child at like level -50, and had to grind through extra levels to max out. That would be both lore fitting, and population controlling. Huh.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Force sensitivity should not be unlockable, but Jedi should. I don't want to see 90% of the population running around as Jedi, because no matter what you may say, that still doesn't fit the timeline. Yes, Jedi were more prominent in the KotOR timeline, but they didn't make up the majority of the population. They should still be rare to some degree.

When it comes to lore, that gets a little tricky. Jedi were supposed to start training at a very early age. Now unless you start the game as a child, it really doesn't make sense for ANYONE to "start" as a Jedi at level 1. why would a 20ish+ year old be a complete joke of a Jedi if he has been training all of his life? So if you think of it this way, then making Jedi unlockable isn't much different than starting as a Jedi when it comes to breaking lore. Besides, not the first time a Star Wars game has crapped all over it's lore for the sake of Jedi anyway.

So, I think Jedi should be unlocked by accomplishing certain unknown goals. These goals should start a secret and STAY a secret, or possibly randomized for each character created.

I'd really like to see force sensitivity be open to play a role in any character, but full fledged Jedi should be uncommon, but not have much more power than anyone else.

But, we all know where this game is heading. Jedi is going to be a starter class, because EVERYONE HAS to be a "hero". But wheneveryone is a hero, no one is. And when everyone is the same, no one is special.

/sigh.

 

EDIT:

I just thought of something that would be pretty funny. Since we all know this game is going to have levels(god forbid an MMO doesn't! How will I know I am doing well???), it would be really funny, fitting, and cool if people that created a Jedi started out as a child at like level -50, and had to grind through extra levels to max out. That would be both lore fitting, and population controlling. Huh.

Agreed, it will no doubt end up with jedi as a starter prof and as everyone wants to be a hero they'll play jedi. As you said when everyone is a hero and a FOTM template then it just results in mediocrity for all, everyone just rolls thier eyes when they see a "hero".

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

I'd rather the game be more faithful to the IP rather than another re-hash of Raph Koster's flawed vision.

With the exception of Luke (who was a teenager I might add), *all* Jedi depicted in the films started as children. All of them. Heck, even Anakin, "The Chosen One" was almost turned down at the age of nine... for being too old. And this game is set in an era three thousand years prior to the movies, when both Jedi and Sith flourished.

It doesn't make a lick of sense for Jedi to be anything but a vocation one begins upon character creation... unless you're proposing we all begin the game as infants.

You want a sandbox sci-fi game without Jedi? I suggest you check out EVE Online.

Not entirely true, Kyle Katarn became a Jedi Knight and he must have been 18-20 something at the time, not only that he renounced the Force and lost all his abilities. He gest them beck by going to the Jedi home planet and to the valley of the Jedi. There is a beam of pure force there and just by entering the beam you become force sensitive.

In Kotor's time people of different ages from children to adults could be trained as Jedi or Sith, the reason they try to only train children in the original timeline is because of all the wars and JEdi being corrupted by the darkside ect in the Kotor days. So a more modern Jedi will spend most of his/her life learning to focus on the lightside, meditaion ect.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by TeranHawkins

Originally posted by Agricola1

I find there is much heresy being spoken here today talk of "linear" and "instanced" also there are many of the casual play infidels among us! The Casual play infidels speak of solo centric gameplay focusing on thier 30 mins of pve grinding, well I say no!

No to the darkside, no to a step backward in to the age of wickdness! We Brothers and Sisters of the open sandbox enviroment that believe in a Jedi class that isn't handed to you on a plate mush band together. We must take the casual play infidels that wish Jedi to be given to them and burn them until thier fire brings back light to the MMORPG world and light to SWtOR!

I see no value in a Jedi class handed to you, just the same as everyother. So that all we end up with is an army of saber jerks around every corner ingame (unless it's heavily instanced of course!). Let it be a class that needs to be unlocked and you need to train in solitude and no NPC trainers only player masters that train? Make GMs Jedi at first for the first few to get training. Then initiate a Bounty Hunter system where Bounty Hunters can track and kill those with a price on thier head.

Anything less would just be utter wank!

 

Wow this guy isnt a fanatic....nope...not at all....

Says the guy with the Anakin avatar.

I dont run around calling people infidels

Originally posted by Agricola1 

Those that didn't seem to work for it were no doubt extremely force sensitive and gifted!

Or you know, just had some spare cash and an eBay account.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Force sensitivity should not be unlockable, but Jedi should.

Why?

I don't want to see 90% of the population running around as Jedi, because no matter what you may say, that still doesn't fit the timeline.

And I don't want to see 90% of the population. Period. Why? Because if it's like any other MMO, a sizable percentage of the population are complete assholes. All I care about are the people I actually ENJOY playing the game with. The rest can go pound sand for all I care.

Yes, Jedi were more prominent in the KotOR timeline, but they didn't make up the majority of the population. They should still be rare to some degree.

So should Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians, etc.. I get it. You want a game wherein the lion's share of the playerbase lead less interesting lives than NPCs. All the better for you to lord over them something a little bit more special, a little bit more powerful... right?

When it comes to lore, that gets a little tricky. Jedi were supposed to start training at a very early age. Now unless you start the game as a child, it really doesn't make sense for ANYONE to "start" as a Jedi at level 1. why would a 20ish+ year old be a complete joke of a Jedi if he has been training all of his life? So if you think of it this way, then making Jedi unlockable isn't much different than starting as a Jedi when it comes to breaking lore. Besides, not the first time a Star Wars game has crapped all over it's lore for the sake of Jedi anyway.

Do yourself a favor; stop watching Naruto and Dragon Ball Z to derive your Jedi lore. No levelheaded person is expecting to be Yoda or Mace Windu fresh out of the tutorial. That would neither be authentic to the IP, or good for game balance.

So, I think Jedi should be unlocked by accomplishing certain unknown goals. These goals should start a secret and STAY a secret, or possibly randomized for each character created.

I'd really like to see force sensitivity be open to play a role in any character, but full fledged Jedi should be uncommon, but not have much more power than anyone else.

Why should they have *any* more power than anyone else? Did you watch the films? Did you? With the exception of Empire Strikes Back, at least one Jedi dies in EVERY movie. Hell, in some cases, they die by the score. Please, stop equating Jedi with "over nine thousaaaaand power level" demigods.

It's completely valid to expect other playable professions to be just as self-sufficent, just as powerful, and just as deadly as Jedi... especially player Jedi.

But, we all know where this game is heading. Jedi is going to be a starter class, because EVERYONE HAS to be a "hero". But wheneveryone is a hero, no one is. And when everyone is the same, no one is special.

/sigh.

What are you proposing, a caste system? A lottery to determine who gets to play "hero" and who doesn't? Why would I (or anyone else for that matter) eagerly pay $15 a month merely for the "privilege" of boosting the egos of a handful of "special" people? You think fun should be doled out to only a select minority, and the rest of us should be grateful to play out the roles of peasant or serf?

Again, I don't think any reasonable person is demanding to forgo character progression in favor of an "I win button". What exactly are you driving at? 

EDIT:

I just thought of something that would be pretty funny. Since we all know this game is going to have levels(god forbid an MMO doesn't! How will I know I am doing well???), it would be really funny, fitting, and cool if people that created a Jedi started out as a child at like level -50, and had to grind through extra levels to max out. That would be both lore fitting, and population controlling. Huh.

I think some folks here need to read up on the old republic novels. Specifically the Darth Bane ones. The setting for this game is the conflict betwen the jedi and the sith. Both had armies that were led by the jedi/sith. If you want to be  non force sensitve grunt on the front lines then I'm sure those will be available.But this IS the jedi/sith war.Meaning that it was fought by hundreds of jedi and hundreds of sith. So it should be expected to see lots of glow bats and if folks have a problem with seeing that then they should avoid this game.

The way I see this happening is you have soldiers and TKMs who are VERY good. TKMS gave jedi a run for their money. Some jedi were more defensive,others were more offensive and some were strictly healers. Bounty hunters were very good against jedi as well. I don't think this game will become 100 % overpopulated with jedi because,believe it or not, not EVERYONE yearns to be a jedi. If the other classes are fun to play and if the DEVS spend equal amount of time on them(and we all know which game didn't do that) then players will play them.

TBH, it was a bad idea for SWG and would be a very bad idea for TOR. I don't know where you got your anology from but I think it would be more like it with unlockable Jedi. Having Jedi unavailable to the masses didn't make the player better... it just meant there were more no-lifers with Jedi who are more than likely more immature than people who have other obligations besides gaming.

I guess it could be a way to make the player feel special when they get to be a Jedi, but it's really unnecessary. It also doesn't make sense for Jedi to be rare in the timeline.

Instead of having a Jedi be unlockable, it would make more sense for some of the Jedi abilities to be hard to attain which I think is what it will be like.

Jedi for all... Jedi Masters for few.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Force sensitivity should not be unlockable, but Jedi should.

Why?

I explain below.

I don't want to see 90% of the population running around as Jedi, because no matter what you may say, that still doesn't fit the timeline.

And I don't want to see 90% of the population. Period. Why? Because if it's like any other MMO, a sizable percentage of the population are complete assholes. All I care about are the people I actually ENJOY playing the game with. The rest can go pound sand for all I care.

So why play an MMO at all? Why not go play a single player game, or a co-op game with your friends if you don't want to see anyone else?

The games themselves play a huge role in the type of players you find in game. When players don't need anyone else, they have no need to be nice, and no care to, so you see a lot of them be complete assholes. But games where people need each other and need to co-exist, you will find very strong communities form. So perhaps it isn't the people that are the problem, but the games?

Yes, Jedi were more prominent in the KotOR timeline, but they didn't make up the majority of the population. They should still be rare to some degree.

So should Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians, etc.. I get it. You want a game wherein the lion's share of the playerbase lead less interesting lives than NPCs. All the better for you to lord over them something a little bit more special, a little bit more powerful... right?

Mandalorians weren't rare, there were armies of them. Why would bounty hunters be rare too? There is nothing special that prevents someone from being a bounty hunter.

But, you lost me on the last part.

When it comes to lore, that gets a little tricky. Jedi were supposed to start training at a very early age. Now unless you start the game as a child, it really doesn't make sense for ANYONE to "start" as a Jedi at level 1. why would a 20ish+ year old be a complete joke of a Jedi if he has been training all of his life? So if you think of it this way, then making Jedi unlockable isn't much different than starting as a Jedi when it comes to breaking lore. Besides, not the first time a Star Wars game has crapped all over it's lore for the sake of Jedi anyway.

Do yourself a favor; stop watching Naruto and Dragon Ball Z to derive your Jedi lore.

I have never watched either of those, and I've never even heard of Naruto(If it is anime that's why, I think anime is pretty gay)

No levelheaded person is expecting to be Yoda or Mace Windu fresh out of the tutorial. That would neither be authentic to the IP, or good for game balance.

Well I guess we can agree on something. But still, if Jedi are starter class, and you claim that they need to be trained since they are younglings, then does it make sense for an early 20's Jedi that has been training all of his life to be a pathetic level 1?

So, I think Jedi should be unlocked by accomplishing certain unknown goals. These goals should start a secret and STAY a secret, or possibly randomized for each character created.

I'd really like to see force sensitivity be open to play a role in any character, but full fledged Jedi should be uncommon, but not have much more power than anyone else.

Why should they have *any* more power than anyone else?

Because Jedi were generally more powerful then most people? Pick a side here, either you want to enforce the lore or you don't.

Did you watch the films? Did you? With the exception of Empire Strikes Back, at least one Jedi dies in EVERY movie.

On the contrary, the Tauntaun was actually a Jedi in disguise. He froze to death

Hell, in some cases, they die by the score. Please, stop equating Jedi with "over nine thousaaaaand power level" demigods.

But, don't look at the fact that Jedi died, but HOW they died. Usually to either A) Other Jedi, or B) being vastly outnumbered, or C) being taken by surprise(Although I wonder how you take a Jedi by surprise. Apparently Yoda is the only true Jedi that can sense something). No, not all Jedi were Mace Windu's, or Yoda's, but they were generally stronger then the average soldier. Just look at the little Jedi that George Lucas' son played(pretty sure it was his son) in episode 3. He was like 14 and took out quite a few clone troopers before he was  killed.

It's completely valid to expect other playable professions to be just as self-sufficent, just as powerful, and just as deadly as Jedi... especially player Jedi.

I agree.

But, we all know where this game is heading. Jedi is going to be a starter class, because EVERYONE HAS to be a "hero". But wheneveryone is a hero, no one is. And when everyone is the same, no one is special.

/sigh.

What are you proposing, a caste system? A lottery to determine who gets to play "hero" and who doesn't? Why would I (or anyone else for that matter) eagerly pay $15 a month merely for the "privilege" of boosting the egos of a handful of "special" people? You think fun should be doled out to only a select minority, and the rest of us should be grateful to play out the roles of peasant or serf?

I don't quite understand what you are getting at. I want a world where I can determine if I am a hero or not, where I gain a reputation on the server based on my actions and my interactions with others, not by having some NPC blow smoke up my ass and telling me I'm the man.

Again, I don't think any reasonable person is demanding to forgo character progression in favor of an "I win button". What exactly are you driving at? 

I don't understand what you are asking.

EDIT:

I just thought of something that would be pretty funny. Since we all know this game is going to have levels(god forbid an MMO doesn't! How will I know I am doing well???), it would be really funny, fitting, and cool if people that created a Jedi started out as a child at like level -50, and had to grind through extra levels to max out. That would be both lore fitting, and population controlling. Huh.

 

 

I don't want to play mediocre onlie with a Star Wars skin. If you do, SWG still exists, why wish it on SWtOR? Why not try something diffrent than a World of Star Wars?

It seems the main stumbling block to this idea is the politicaly correct dogma that most younger people adhere to of "Everything should be fair!". Well the trouble is if everything is fair, life as well as games become mediocre! That is why everyone doesn't get a gold medal at the Olympics, Why every country doesn't win the world cup, why everyone doesn't get an Oscar. Someone has to be the best and someone has to suck, if not the game becomes a mediocre grind to level x to enter the hallowed halls of mediocrity so you can run around with the other saber jerks like "Fluke Shitewalker" and " Fan Colon" and "Cupp-O". Get my drift?

Unless I have someone on top of the hill to try to knock down what's the point? You may be happy to take your place at the top along with the other 250k "Chewcrappa's" and bathe in the light of mediocrity. I and many others don't, and since most of the gamers have come to MMORPGs post WoW they haven't tried this way. So why not be open to give it a shot? You will find that the struggle to take out that twat that lords his good fortune or hard work over others is extremely entertaining on its own, more so than, endless PVE grinding. If you and some buddys ever do take him out (I did as a BH in pre-cu SWG quite often) then that is far more satisfying than getting to lvl 80 in any random PVE grind level based turd. Then you get to lord it over him and bring his ego back down to size.

For all this you need a community which in the post WoW era consists of mental midgets throwing verbal excrement at eachother. I suggest only, you open yourselves to walking another path! Shocking idea I know, especially in the post WoW era!

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Force sensitivity should not be unlockable, but Jedi should.

Why?

I explain below.

I don't want to see 90% of the population running around as Jedi, because no matter what you may say, that still doesn't fit the timeline.

And I don't want to see 90% of the population. Period. Why? Because if it's like any other MMO, a sizable percentage of the population are complete assholes. All I care about are the people I actually ENJOY playing the game with. The rest can go pound sand for all I care.

So why play an MMO at all? Why not go play a single player game, or a co-op game with your friends if you don't want to see anyone else?

Why? Why play an MMO??

Maybe because I have more than just a handful of friends? Maybe because I enjoy a dynamic environment, with content that's constantly being supplemented and expanded? Or maybe, just maybe, it's because I can afford the subscription fee and want to play the game. Unless you're my mother, I don't have to explain my reasons to you.

The games themselves play a huge role in the type of players you find in game. When players don't need anyone else, they have no need to be nice, and no care to, so you see a lot of them be complete assholes. But games where people need each other and need to co-exist, you will find very strong communities form. So perhaps it isn't the people that are the problem, but the games?

There are assholes in every MMO, regardless of game design. Don't kid yourself. The beauty of a system wherein you're not dependent on them is, well, you're NOT dependent on them.

Yes, Jedi were more prominent in the KotOR timeline, but they didn't make up the majority of the population. They should still be rare to some degree.

So should Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians, etc.. I get it. You want a game wherein the lion's share of the playerbase lead less interesting lives than NPCs. All the better for you to lord over them something a little bit more special, a little bit more powerful... right?

Mandalorians weren't rare, there were armies of them. Why would bounty hunters be rare too? There is nothing special that prevents someone from being a bounty hunter.

How many Mandalorians did you see in the movies? How 'bout Bounty Hunters? I don't know about you, but by comparison? I saw a hell of a lot more Jedi.

But, you lost me on the last part.

When it comes to lore, that gets a little tricky. Jedi were supposed to start training at a very early age. Now unless you start the game as a child, it really doesn't make sense for ANYONE to "start" as a Jedi at level 1. why would a 20ish+ year old be a complete joke of a Jedi if he has been training all of his life? So if you think of it this way, then making Jedi unlockable isn't much different than starting as a Jedi when it comes to breaking lore. Besides, not the first time a Star Wars game has crapped all over it's lore for the sake of Jedi anyway.

Do yourself a favor; stop watching Naruto and Dragon Ball Z to derive your Jedi lore.

I have never watched either of those, and I've never even heard of Naruto(If it is anime that's why, I think anime is pretty gay)

You may want to reevaluate your position on that. From the sounds of things, they may be right up your alley. In all seriousness, you might want to at least consider checking out Afro Samurai. Honestly, I think you'd dig it.

No levelheaded person is expecting to be Yoda or Mace Windu fresh out of the tutorial. That would neither be authentic to the IP, or good for game balance.

Well I guess we can agree on something. But still, if Jedi are starter class, and you claim that they need to be trained since they are younglings, then does it make sense for an early 20's Jedi that has been training all of his life to be a pathetic level 1?

How is it any different than any other profession in a progression-based game? Why is my Wizard pathetic at level 1? Why is my Fighter pathetic at level 1?

So, I think Jedi should be unlocked by accomplishing certain unknown goals. These goals should start a secret and STAY a secret, or possibly randomized for each character created.

I'd really like to see force sensitivity be open to play a role in any character, but full fledged Jedi should be uncommon, but not have much more power than anyone else.

Why should they have *any* more power than anyone else?

Because Jedi were generally more powerful then most people?

Says who?

I saw Jango blast the shit out of a Master Jedi with relative aplomb and ease. He didn't even break a sweat. For that matter, I saw Luke get his ass handed to him by freakin' Ewoks.

Pick a side here, either you want to enforce the lore or you don't.

I think my opinion is fairly consistent with the lore; a well-skilled (or simply well-prepared) opponent can be every bit as formidable as a Jedi.

Did you watch the films? Did you? With the exception of Empire Strikes Back, at least one Jedi dies in EVERY movie.

On the contrary, the Tauntaun was actually a Jedi in disguise. He froze to death

Hell, in some cases, they die by the score. Please, stop equating Jedi with "over nine thousaaaaand power level" demigods.

But, don't look at the fact that Jedi died, but HOW they died. Usually to either A) Other Jedi, or B) being vastly outnumbered, or C) being taken by surprise(Although I wonder how you take a Jedi by surprise. Apparently Yoda is the only true Jedi that can sense something). No, not all Jedi were Mace Windu's, or Yoda's, but they were generally stronger then the average soldier.

By all means, anyone eager to pay $15 a month to play an "average soldier" can knock themselves out. Personally? That's not what I'm interested in.

Just look at the little Jedi that George Lucas' son played(pretty sure it was his son) in episode 3. He was like 14 and took out quite a few clone troopers before he was  killed.

Yes, how convenient. George Lucas' own son put up quite a fight before getting clobbered. But he still was killed, wasn't he? And as I recall, most of his little buddies weren't so valiant.

It's completely valid to expect other playable professions to be just as self-sufficent, just as powerful, and just as deadly as Jedi... especially player Jedi.

I agree.

So what's the problem then?

But, we all know where this game is heading. Jedi is going to be a starter class, because EVERYONE HAS to be a "hero". But wheneveryone is a hero, no one is. And when everyone is the same, no one is special.

/sigh.

What are you proposing, a caste system? A lottery to determine who gets to play "hero" and who doesn't? Why would I (or anyone else for that matter) eagerly pay $15 a month merely for the "privilege" of boosting the egos of a handful of "special" people? You think fun should be doled out to only a select minority, and the rest of us should be grateful to play out the roles of peasant or serf?

I don't quite understand what you are getting at. I want a world where I can determine if I am a hero or not...

And therein lies the proverbial rub.

If you get to determine whether or not you're a "hero", what about me? Do I get that choice? What about my next door neighbor? Does he get that choice? Assuming we do, what if we all choose to play the "hero"? Then what? By your reasoning, oh noes, none of us are "teh special"!

...where I gain a reputation on the server based on my actions and my interactions with others, not by having some NPC blow smoke up my ass and telling me I'm the man.

What's to prevent you from gaining a reputation on the server based on your actions or interactions with others? Am I missing something here?

If it's any consolation, I assure you, if we play together, and you suck, I most definitely won't blow smoke up your ass to the contrary.

Again, I don't think any reasonable person is demanding to forgo character progression in favor of an "I win button". What exactly are you driving at? 

I don't understand what you are asking.

EDIT:

I just thought of something that would be pretty funny. Since we all know this game is going to have levels(god forbid an MMO doesn't! How will I know I am doing well???), it would be really funny, fitting, and cool if people that created a Jedi started out as a child at like level -50, and had to grind through extra levels to max out. That would be both lore fitting, and population controlling. Huh.

 

 

 

The SW movies can not be taken as canon any longer. Lucas has so screwed up things, you have to go to the books and comics for any kind of continuity.

Originally posted by Agricola1

I don't want to play mediocre onlie with a Star Wars skin. If you do, SWG still exists, why wish it on SWtOR? Why not try something diffrent than a World of Star Wars?

It seems the main stumbling block to this idea is the politicaly correct dogma that most younger people adhere to of "Everything should be fair!". Well the trouble is if everything is fair, life as well as games become mediocre! That is why everyone doesn't get a gold medal at the Olympics, Why every country doesn't win the world cup, why everyone doesn't get an Oscar. Someone has to be the best and someone has to suck, if not the game becomes a mediocre grind to level x to enter the hallowed halls of mediocrity so you can run around with the other saber jerks like "Fluke Shitewalker" and " Fan Colon" and "Cupp-O". Get my drift?

Unless I have someone on top of the hill to try to knock down what's the point? You may be happy to take your place at the top along with the other 250k "Chewcrappa's" and bathe in the light of mediocrity. I and many others don't, and since most of the gamers have come to MMORPGs post WoW they haven't tried this way. So why not be open to give it a shot? You will find that the struggle to take out that twat that lords his good fortune or hard work over others is extremely entertaining on its own, more so than, endless PVE grinding. If you and some buddys ever do take him out (I did as a BH in pre-cu SWG quite often) then that is far more satisfying than getting to lvl 80 in any random PVE grind level based turd. Then you get to lord it over him and bring his ego back down to size.

For all this you need a community which in the post WoW era consists of mental midgets throwing verbal excrement at eachother. I suggest only, you open yourselves to walking another path! Shocking idea I know, especially in the post WoW era!

It's fairly amusing someone whining about not getting their way is simultaneously lecturing us that life isn't fair and we should suck it up and get used to it.

Don't want a game that's fair? Come to Brooklyn and I'll teach you three-card monte.

It will not matter what we think, the game is going to be what its gonna be anyways so I dont see a point of this post at all.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Agricola1

I don't want to play mediocre onlie with a Star Wars skin. If you do, SWG still exists, why wish it on SWtOR? Why not try something diffrent than a World of Star Wars?

It seems the main stumbling block to this idea is the politicaly correct dogma that most younger people adhere to of "Everything should be fair!". Well the trouble is if everything is fair, life as well as games become mediocre! That is why everyone doesn't get a gold medal at the Olympics, Why every country doesn't win the world cup, why everyone doesn't get an Oscar. Someone has to be the best and someone has to suck, if not the game becomes a mediocre grind to level x to enter the hallowed halls of mediocrity so you can run around with the other saber jerks like "Fluke Shitewalker" and " Fan Colon" and "Cupp-O". Get my drift?

Unless I have someone on top of the hill to try to knock down what's the point? You may be happy to take your place at the top along with the other 250k "Chewcrappa's" and bathe in the light of mediocrity. I and many others don't, and since most of the gamers have come to MMORPGs post WoW they haven't tried this way. So why not be open to give it a shot? You will find that the struggle to take out that twat that lords his good fortune or hard work over others is extremely entertaining on its own, more so than, endless PVE grinding. If you and some buddys ever do take him out (I did as a BH in pre-cu SWG quite often) then that is far more satisfying than getting to lvl 80 in any random PVE grind level based turd. Then you get to lord it over him and bring his ego back down to size.

For all this you need a community which in the post WoW era consists of mental midgets throwing verbal excrement at eachother. I suggest only, you open yourselves to walking another path! Shocking idea I know, especially in the post WoW era!

 

It's fairly amusing someone whining about not getting their way is simultaneously lecturing us that life isn't fair and we should suck it up and get used to it.

Don't want a game that's fair? Come to Brooklyn and I'll teach you three-card monte.

I'm glad you're easily amused, yet I find your reply predictably mediocre.

i think it should be a a non-start class and should be earned jusst like SWG was in the begining. jedi running all over the place is crap and doesn't make the game as fun to me. hence the reason why i stopped SWG after being 1 week from making jedi and then they are everywhere.

i hope they don't let just EVERYONE be jedi like SWG is now.