I didn't bother to read the whole thread.  I stopped with 'our guild of 60 and another RAID guild'  are moving to WAR.   ROFL   Yeah, okay.  Well wow.  I hope the raid guild truly enjoys Warhammer.  They are going to be tremendously BORED.  First of all, you're coming from WoW.  There are a few things in WAR that might be worth mentioning before you take that leap to a game that is so entirely different from what you're leaving.  (I'm doing you a favor here, because it would have helped ME if someone had let ME know these things before I played Warhammer.

First of all....loot and gear does not reign supreme.  I find it odd that a PvE RAID GUILD would even momentarily consider Warhammer as a viable alternative.  If the OP's post is for REAL....I would think a RAID GUILD would have been considering oh maybe....LotRO or EQ2, NOT Warhammer.  Warhammer is notoriously WEAK on PvE.

Secondly, you're going to be mostly grinding scenarios (these are like mini-WoW battlegrounds...much smaller and not much variety)  between level 25 and 40 and those levels do not take a day each.  In other words....there is no "rush to max level" for the endgame PvP raids.  Unless you're a glutton for punishment, REEEAAALLLY love scenarios, or things have changed an AWFUL lot in War.....you're not going to enjoy this 15-20 level spread here (it starts getting rather drab and dull at level 20, in my opinion).

On the other hand, if nothing anyone is probably saying to you to warn you against this move, is convincing, and you're still dead set on moving (IF what you've said is even TRUE), Destruction is definitely the way to go.  The classes are more fun, the greenskins at least have some comical personality (although you'll find the other races a bit lacking in the "personality" department).  Destruction has "The Inevitable City," which is a VERY VERY cool captial city.  

The only way I can see your venture as successfully making that many people HAPPY, is if you have somehow gathered together that many people that are followers of the Warhammer series and Warhammer lore.  But then....even the lorehounds have complained about Warhammer's derailment of the lore.  Dwarves fighting on the same side with elves?  Oooookaaay.  

So anyway....good luck to you!

Originally posted by Hatsoff2u

Whatever dude, just go back to the WoW forum with the other trolls,

I asked whether to go Order or Destruction and the WAR players are giving advice (the WRONG advice  saying to go Destruction ) while all the WoW trolls are here trying to derail the thread. Maybe WoW players in general are just less mature who knows and who cares, WAR is where it's at for my guild now.

Just whatever, don't post again and let's try to stick to the topic.

You have to try to understand that for a large majority of WAR playes, the fact that a supposed hardcore guild (I say supposed since IMO WoW only really had 1 hardcore aspect, and that was grinding ranks till rank 14, nothing else was truely hard or hardcore)  plans to transfer games from wow to war is weird.

For many reasons, starting with the fact that WAR PVE is overall more easy (and boring) than WoW  , maybe with the exception of leveling (tho they might have changed ..havent leveled in war since september).

Then, the end game of War consists in mass zerging your opponents capital city (with lots of bug in the mix) or grinding renown rank 80- what is a reloaded version of the old wow rank 14 system but made easier... by flipping keep possession. 

 I do know some wow guilds that transfered to war and are happy, but all of those were pvp guilds that passed all their time in wow running premades  in bg's, while very few pve guilds ended up settling in war, due to the huge difference in pve terms, what is not surprising since WAR, in principle, was meant to be a pvp game, that would cather to the wow populace that dislike raiding instances and preffers to pvp.

another beef with WAR, this one kind of personal but,, where it goes... imagine you log in off hours,,, actually this happened to me yesterday,,, come home late but without sleep, log in war... buh... nothing to do... wide search... 3 chars of my rank in the destruction side... maybe 6 or 7 on my tier....  there is no LFM whatever instance, or x-servers bg system or arena system  that allows pvp to exist 24/24 in wow.  

and FYI, yes I do play war, In K- Hirn to be precise, that is apparently the server where you intend to play. question rising is ... "so you play war and end up saying bad of it".. quite contrary.. i was one of those maniac that ranked 14 in wow 2 times with more than 200 k honor kills... while raiding bwl, aq40 and  naxx (pre-tbc).

what i do in war is exactly what i did in wow... pvp, and so i like it.. but none of my wow guild survived more than 2 months in war... most of them returned to wow...

And i still play wow also.  

Originally posted by girlgeek

The only way I can see your venture as successfully making that many people HAPPY, is if you have somehow gathered together that many people that are followers of the Warhammer series and Warhammer lore.  But then....even the lorehounds have complained about Warhammer's derailment of the lore.  Dwarves fighting on the same side with elves?  Oooookaaay.  

 

Girlgeek, it is not the first time Dwarves have connection with Elves, their war ended years and years ago beside their connection is based in the fact both are Empire allies this time and common interest..

Some people say the same about DEs and Chaos, but DEs have connection with chaos for a while now, especially Slannesh.

The Good and Evil definition in Warhammer universe is not tottally clear, so in the end, for common goals even more akward alliances are possible, beside, GW are totally behind the lore in Warhammer online, so most new details we see in the MMO we wil see in the upcoming books aswell.

...

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by girlgeek

The only way I can see your venture as successfully making that many people HAPPY, is if you have somehow gathered together that many people that are followers of the Warhammer series and Warhammer lore.  But then....even the lorehounds have complained about Warhammer's derailment of the lore.  Dwarves fighting on the same side with elves?  Oooookaaay.  

 

 

Girlgeek, it is not the first time Dwarves have connection with Elves, their war ended years and years ago beside their connection is based in the fact both are Empire allies this time and common interest..

Some people say the same about DEs and Chaos, but DEs have connection with chaos for a while now, especially Slannesh.

The Good and Evil definition in Warhammer universe is not tottally clear, so in the end, for common goals even more akward alliances are possible, beside, GW are totally behind the lore in Warhammer online, so most new details we see in the MMO we wil see in the upcoming books aswell.

...

Highly doubt Girlgeek read any of the Dwarf quest text in the beginning hub - if she did, she'd notice how Dwarfs still insult Elves and they have an uncomfortable alliance at best.

Originally posted by Ascension08

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by girlgeek

The only way I can see your venture as successfully making that many people HAPPY, is if you have somehow gathered together that many people that are followers of the Warhammer series and Warhammer lore.  But then....even the lorehounds have complained about Warhammer's derailment of the lore.  Dwarves fighting on the same side with elves?  Oooookaaay.  

 

 

Girlgeek, it is not the first time Dwarves have connection with Elves, their war ended years and years ago beside their connection is based in the fact both are Empire allies this time and common interest..

Some people say the same about DEs and Chaos, but DEs have connection with chaos for a while now, especially Slannesh.

The Good and Evil definition in Warhammer universe is not tottally clear, so in the end, for common goals even more akward alliances are possible, beside, GW are totally behind the lore in Warhammer online, so most new details we see in the MMO we wil see in the upcoming books aswell.

...

Highly doubt Girlgeek read any of the Dwarf quest text in the beginning hub - if she did, she'd notice how Dwarfs still insult Elves and they have an uncomfortable alliance at best.

Yes, I did read it.  The dwarves are KNOWN for holding grudges.  I don't believe they would EVER side with the elves, but then...that's just me TRYING to think like a dwarf, but whatever. :)

Originally posted by girlgeek

 ...that's just me TRYING to think like a dwarf, but whatever. :)

Ok Girlgeek, that is nothing wrong with that, but it is your opinion not exacly based on what really happened between the two races in the original Lore and their situation now .

You made a negative comment about Dwarves and Elven folks lore in Warhammer online (that is ok), but you used the original lore as argument where the only base you have is your opinion about the classes.

You dont like the alliance, it is ok, as it is your opinion, but your argument related to this alliance is not valid as it is not acurrate.

Warhammer lore is not a version of original Warhammer lore, it IS the original Warhammer lore of today, nothing is there without the permission/creation of GW.

You may argue about Mythic lack of freedom, but you just cant pretend they changed the original universe.

It seems you had a bad experience with Warhammer, I understand that, but I think it is good to maintain some level of realism and update some facts to keep the criticism valid and productive.

Ok so the OP asks which race should his guild go, how did it get to slamming him and his guild? Lets say its a small guild and they feel its time to move on from WOW and they want to try WAR. That is why there is so many MMO's out there so people can try them. I think instead of slamming him you should say "hey just a recommendation, I would hold off and try DF or maybe you should try a different game." lol nope all we want to do is slam someone in our community.

Well sorry OP, I tried WAR at beta. I really liked it but it just wasnt my cup a tea since I like more PvE content and alittle PvP content. Dont get me wrong, I love doing PvP with my guildies but I also am a big time crafter so im more PvE driven and I play supporting roles for my guild.

Just my 2 cents - (If your guild is interested I would recommend a different game like DF or Earthrise. Or a sandbox game b/c it sounds like it would be alittle more up your guilds alley.)

Amimia

I understand why some people are suggesting Everquest 2 for a ex raid guild, EQ2 has more raids and they are harder and deeper than WoW´s raids.

But I also think they may enjoy raids in Warhammer and the different aproach Warhammer has, but nothing what the OP said gives any clue they would enjoy "sandbox independenty (or games with not much content but with a lot of open spaces)" games that dont even exist yet.

I know it was probably not your intetion, but this " you should wait for darkfall" type of thing is almost a joke and really doesnt help anyone...ok, suggest Vanguard for its raids and freedom, at least the game is available now.

You want to recommend a real "sandbox", why not Ryzom?

...

i returned to warcraft to level my chraracter i got two to 80 only to find the pvp endgame to be terrible at the moment for a number of factors . lag , ridiculous burst damage , the worst class imbalnces in 4 years and a lack of insentives to go into the battlegrounds . this was the reason i left and went back to warhammer . even though its not perfect by any means it really is the better option for the pvp player at present . i play order and destruction . i really dont think theres a lot to chose between them . i personally prefer destruction because golbins are such fun to play . if your bored with warcrafts pvp warhammer really is the best choice of a replacement game .

Originally posted by Umbral

Amimia

I understand why some people are suggesting Everquest 2 for a ex raid guild, EQ2 has more raids and they are harder and deeper than WoW´s raids.

But I also think they may enjoy raids in Warhammer and the different aproach Warhammer has, but nothing what the OP said gives any clue they would enjoy "sandbox independenty (or games with not much content but with a lot of open spaces)" games that dont even exist yet.

I know it was probably not your intetion, but this " you should wait for darkfall" type of thing is almost a joke and really doesnt help anyone...ok, suggest Vanguard for its raids and freedom, at least the game is available now.

You want to recommend a real "sandbox", why not Ryzom?

...

Very true, I didnt really give him any games that are out right now.

Recommendation of current games

PVE: FFXI, VG, EQ2 & LOTRO - I feel of of these give great PvE content and end game imo. LOTRO does have alittle PVP content along with EQ2.

PVP: EVE, Linage 2 or WAR

Mix PvP & PvE: Ryzom, Requiem( i know im going to get flamed for this one but think its decent), or wait for some of the newer titles to be released.

If your guild really wants a challenge I like FFXI b/c its very challenging lvling and end game but not much for PvP. If you really want some good PvP EVE is the place to be. WAR isnt bad but I think they are trying to tailor to PvE people alittle to much. I know there is much there but just saying they are trying.

And after doing some reading I like Destruction

If you want the underdog roll order, if you want the advantage roll destro it really is as simple as that.

Order has issues, in fact someone just found serious stat diparity between order high end gear and destro high end gear ACROSS THE BOARD of all weapons it is posted over a Warhammer Vault.

Destro defintely gets more developer attention and order has more than one plain out broken class, while destro has the most OPed alpha class in the history of gaming.

Roll destro and steamroll or roll order and work your butt off for success, either way you may have fun.

Originally posted by Grzz

If you want the underdog roll order, if you want the advantage roll destro it really is as simple as that.

 

Order has issues, in fact someone just found serious stat diparity between order high end gear and destro high end gear ACROSS THE BOARD of all weapons it is posted over a Warhammer Vault.

Destro defintely gets more developer attention and order has more than one plain out broken class, while destro has the most OPed alpha class in the history of gaming.

Roll destro and steamroll or roll order and work your butt off for success, either way you may have fun.

Grass is always greener. BTW the most OP alpha class was the bright wizard and they got nerfed.  If you think that Mythic favors order then you need to ask yourself how the BW made it to live in that state. Then go look at KotBS and Blackguard when they released. IB > all tanks still. So yeah stop looking at one class to determine who Mythic favors.

I don't mind people saying xxxx is op or whatever but saying the devs favor a side without looking at all aspects is just dumb. Both sides have had equally OP classes. Heck I bet you play a WL and think they are under powered and need buffed. BTW what broken classes do Order have? SM? BG is just as gimped as SM.

Just some food for though. In the past week or so Order has taken a bunch of forts and Destruction has taken ZERO. So yeah...roll destruction if you want to streamroll.

Either way the endgame of WAR sucks. So Order or destruction makes no difference in the face of the horribleness that is T4.

Well hatsoff,

I'd say go Order.  Destruction was a distater for my guild, HATED destruction.  Just... didn't feel right the entire time.

Order on the otehr hand... I'm having a blast.  I'm a nuker, and no one, and I mean NO ONE beats a BW in that department.  Sure, I bet someone out there has the numbers on how I'm wrong.. but nothing feels as powerful as a fire slinging BW.  

WE are okay, but the Witch hunter has a style all to it's own, and I find it better.  The only area Dest > Order is in the real of tanks.  Sorry to all you IB, SM and KoTBS but a Black Orc is just more intimidating... and seems the more real tank.  Maybe that's just me.

WAR >WoW IMHO, and I play both... more cause the wife wants me to then because I have any real desire to play WoW. 

Originally posted by amimia

Ok so the OP asks which race should his guild go, how did it get to slamming him and his guild? Lets say its a small guild and they feel its time to move on from WOW and they want to try WAR. That is why there is so many MMO's out there so people can try them. I think instead of slamming him you should say "hey just a recommendation, I would hold off and try DF or maybe you should try a different game." lol nope all we want to do is slam someone in our community.

Well sorry OP, I tried WAR at beta. I really liked it but it just wasnt my cup a tea since I like more PvE content and alittle PvP content. Dont get me wrong, I love doing PvP with my guildies but I also am a big time crafter so im more PvE driven and I play supporting roles for my guild.

Just my 2 cents - (If your guild is interested I would recommend a different game like DF or Earthrise. Or a sandbox game b/c it sounds like it would be alittle more up your guilds alley.)

The problem people are having is that it sounds impossible for a successful raiding guild to not do their own research or thinking when it comes to making a move like this.  They would of gone thru all available material on the subjuct and have already made their own choices on the subject.  They would never ask for another persons opinion or have any need for that opinion.  Also, members of that guild would of already moved over to WAR by now as advanced recon for the rest of the guild and the server they are now playing on is going to be the guild server.

There is no reason for this thread unless the OP is a mid to low level guild member who disagree's with the guilds choices and is looking for arguements to support his playing a witchhunter or this thread is an attempt to start a flame war.

Either way the thread reeks of BS.

Originally posted by Distaste

Originally posted by Grzz

If you want the underdog roll order, if you want the advantage roll destro it really is as simple as that.

 

Order has issues, in fact someone just found serious stat diparity between order high end gear and destro high end gear ACROSS THE BOARD of all weapons it is posted over a Warhammer Vault.

Destro defintely gets more developer attention and order has more than one plain out broken class, while destro has the most OPed alpha class in the history of gaming.

Roll destro and steamroll or roll order and work your butt off for success, either way you may have fun.

 

Grass is always greener. BTW the most OP alpha class was the bright wizard and they got nerfed.  If you think that Mythic favors order then you need to ask yourself how the BW made it to live in that state. Then go look at KotBS and Blackguard when they released. IB > all tanks still. So yeah stop looking at one class to determine who Mythic favors.

I don't mind people saying xxxx is op or whatever but saying the devs favor a side without looking at all aspects is just dumb. Both sides have had equally OP classes. Heck I bet you play a WL and think they are under powered and need buffed. BTW what broken classes do Order have? SM? BG is just as gimped as SM.

Just some food for though. In the past week or so Order has taken a bunch of forts and Destruction has taken ZERO. So yeah...roll destruction if you want to streamroll.

Either way the endgame of WAR sucks. So Order or destruction makes no difference in the face of the horribleness that is T4.

There is a post over at warhammer vault that shows that all the bloodfist gear favors destro in stats it is there plain to see, so much for being dumb.

It is funny you mention the BW which was instantly nerfed in favor of destro complaints while the MOST OPed class in the history of gaming goes unchecked, we know what it is , based on your BW stance I would say you play one, the Witchelf.

BG is not as gimped as the SM, that is a falshood, the BG actually has tools to fill his role, anti-caster abilities.

AND I bet you play a WE and think they are underpowered and need a buff, see what I did there?

Destro has a major advantage based on art and functional design, destro players may be ashamed to admit that publicly but we all know that is why they rolled destro.

 Successful troll is successful. 

/golfclap

Originally posted by Hatsoff2u

 

Well I got the answers I was looking for, but not here.

I went to the Warhammer Alliance forums and it seems WAR players in general are a decent bunch and they helped me out and gave some good info, the arguments I'll use is that Order has the most powerful tank (ironbreaker), main healer (runepriest) and dps (bright wizard). That's a fairly good argument for a min-maxing guild like mine and Norn is still likely to be the server.

It's too bad the MMORPG.com forums were very little help.

 

I dont think what you said is fair, a lot of people tried to help you here, even I said the same thing about Order´s classes : "Order has stronger classes in general (IB, WP, BW, RP) even if they sound more ordinary than the Destruction mirrors, (this by no means is a real inbalance issue) zones and quests are balanced."

But it seems you are more preoccupied with WoW players who know nothing about Warhammer than with people who tried to help you.

These classes are indeed more powerful today and Order has the uppder hand population wise in most RP servers, but balance always change and these classes are not powerful enough to win all battles, chose the side based in lore and the way they play/look so you will avoid frustration

It seems from the start you enjoy more order, so in the end I think it was a good decision... good luck in War.

...

I applaud you choice sir.  We made the move to WAR and to be honest we didn;t eget it fo a second, by far superior game even considering all the WAR featues that Blizzad managed to steal and implement in their game allready.

Originally posted by Hatsoff2u

Originally posted by Raztor

 Successful troll is successful. 

 

/golfclap

 

Well I got the answers I was looking for, but not here.

I went to the Warhammer Alliance forums and it seems WAR players in general are a decent bunch and they helped me out and gave some good info, the arguments I'll use is that Order has the most powerful tank (ironbreaker), main healer (runepriest) and dps (bright wizard). That's a fairly good argument for a min-maxing guild like mine and Norn is still likely to be the server.

It's too bad the MMORPG.com forums were very little help.

Those WAR players on this forum who tried to give opinions and info, I thank you.

But this forum is too full of WOW fanboi trolls like the guy above and all the others who spammed the thread with hate.

REALITY CHECK WOW FANBOYS:

- The only thing good about WoW IS its population

- WoW PVP is the MOST broken it has ever been

- WoW PVE is the LEAST rewarding (both gear and challenge wise) it has ever been

We're going to WAR and not looking back. I just had another raid tonight where we basically several people wanted to turn up to get titles for sart 3drakes on their ALTS. And we LET THEM. That made us all realise there is nothing to play WoW for any more.

We're not stupid, Ulduar will be SSC/TK difficulty. It's over, the raiding game we loved is done and EQ2 isn't the same and neither is LOTRO.

It's WAR all the way baby. We're going to show those Destruction what a real army of ORDER plays like :)

The thing is, most people here, including myself, just don't believe your little story of moving over an entire hardcore raiding guild to a completely inferior PvE setting and in most cases PvP as well.

What is it that you're so excited about? A real army of Order showing what they can do? Showing who? The 2 or 3 players degending their main city leaving you doing an extremely repetitive and boring PvE PQ? If you got bored of WoW raids and PvE content you'll absolutely hate the PvE in WAR. It's obvious you're very biased and to be honest you sound like that propraganda guy we've seen in all those videos hyping WAR up a thousand times more fun than it ever was to play.

I myself left WoW for a month and a half to play WAR since I much prefer the straight up PvP setting of a game and had a few of my friends coming with me but still having been burnt badly in the past we decided to have me buy it, split the cost and get a ton of pizzas and beer and just play it on my big screen TV in the living room in front of the couch for a day or two.

A week later none of them had bought the game and none of them even talked about it. It was just that bad. Mythic is in very serious trouble right now. A mere fluff patch incoming with classes that should have been there in the first place and no fix in sight to  massive problems like no end game, bugs a plenty, broken reward system and on and on, there's only one way and that's down, fast too.

Even if it DID work, how many times do you think people are going to bear doing the same scenarios, the same endgame of doing ONE thing really, before they quit for either a straight up fps or just go back to whichever MMO they came from?

WAR is boring, end of story or the subscribers would be flooding to it. The reality is, more and more people leave every day.

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Hatsoff2u

 

Well I got the answers I was looking for, but not here.

I went to the Warhammer Alliance forums and it seems WAR players in general are a decent bunch and they helped me out and gave some good info, the arguments I'll use is that Order has the most powerful tank (ironbreaker), main healer (runepriest) and dps (bright wizard). That's a fairly good argument for a min-maxing guild like mine and Norn is still likely to be the server.

It's too bad the MMORPG.com forums were very little help.

 

 

I dont think what you said is fair, a lot of people tried to help you here, even I said the same thing about Order´s classes : "Order has stronger classes in general (IB, WP, BW, RP) even if they sound more ordinary than the Destruction mirrors, (this by no means is a real inbalance issue) zones and quests are balanced."

But it seems you are more preoccupied with WoW players who know nothing about Warhammer than with people who tried to help you.

These classes are indeed more powerful today and Order has the uppder hand population wise in most RP servers, but balance always change and these classes are not powerful enough to win all battles, chose the side based in lore and the way they play/look so you will avoid frustration

It seems from the start you enjoy more order, so in the end I think it was a good decision... good luck in War.

 

...

I'm sorry m8, you and Hrica and other WAR players tried to help but you guys got drowned out by all the WoW fanbois who came in here to flame me and my guild

It makes the forum pretty much unreadable, sorry if I offended you I was just getting pi$$ed off at all the trolling, seriously it's like they got nothing better to do than try to DISCOURAGE people from playing WAR

Well it won't work on me suckers, I'm not falling for your advertising.

We're going Order for sure now since even the officers want to play Order classes, and it's just a better fit for us as we were playing Alliance in WoW so it will be a nice continuation. Watch the news on Karak Norn, we'll be making some big waves once we all hit level 40!

The whole guild on vent doing world PVP, it'll be like the old pre-MC days when it was just 15 or so of us, but with a lot more experience and a bigger team (around 40 people are buying the game tomorrow morning, some are downloading it already tonight)