this game seems cursed. For every step they take forward it ends up stumbling back 2 steps.
The guys at SOE need to replace Phathom and Silius the former doest really seems to care and is only seen/heard from about once every 6 months and the latter seems unable to get things done in a timely manner.
Performance has improved since release but has gotten worse than it was 6 months ago.
More and more quests and mobs become bugged daily and simple preventative server restarts are forgotten about or postponed for weeks at a time. A while back a mob difficulty pass was done which left many mobs doing "excessive over the top dmg" that was way out of line with what their level range and difficulty(dots) and these mobs are still this way. Example-- lvl 14 2 dot Kaon(part of a lower level armor quest) doing 400dmg a sec when most players around that level doing these quests(marked as solo content) have less than 1k hp.

Telon is a beautiful world. The classes are great their abilities fun. Groups are a blast; when they happen. I wish VG much luck and I hope to be greatly surprised by it in 2009

Vanguard:Saga Of Heroes, the best MMO out of the ones I have tried and played so far but it was

not an easy win, I had to try 2 buddy key trials before I actually bought and then was totally

absorbed bout it. I think EQII is the only MMO I would play if Vanguard was cancelled today.

Played: WOW, AoC, WAR, GW, Lotro, EQII.

 This was just the article I was asking for about a week ago. Seems like some good information, but I dunno if it exactly resells me. I'm glad to see people still defending it over all.. I tried it at launch, about a year in, and am considering it now while I wait for a few releases since so many other releases have disappointed me.

We'll see if I agree.

Nice review well written, however it hasnt changed my thoughts about it. I been there twice now and I don't have to much for it. I guess all the issues were enough to say enough is enough and after 2 years one would hope something was fixed but not enough to bring me back!!

I'm hoping to jump right back into VG once I've had my fill of WotLK. It's a much improved game that seems to be sadly overlooked both by the community and SOE because of its bad launch.

I don't know what people are talking about when they refer to performance issues being worse, my fps is higher now then its ever been.  The only thing that would make sense is that they are using a crappy gfx card, in which case I wouldn't know if the low end specs are crappy or not, and I'm not using a top end card, but I can run on all high settings.

I am a big fan of this game, but I will say my one big gripe is the lore.  There are inconsistencies and stuff that is placed seemingly at random which kind of annoys me, but isn't game breaking. 

The game is overall alot better then it was at release, although I don't understand raising the level cap to 55, when there isn't much content for 50, it seems kind of premature.  I understand there is a small dev team now, but I think they'd be better off concentrating on fixing other issues and adding more level 50 content then trying to go beyond it and add more grinds.  (For those who haven't played high end content, they have lots of stupidly crazy grinds to keep the player base busy, but most just aren't worth it imo.)

7.6?  should be a higher score.  there's alot to like that can't be found elsewhere.

its starting to look like darkfall's world might compete with it.  i'm speaking purely of the world.  not models, sounds, gameplay or anything else.  they are 2 totally different games.  just the world.  in terms of size, immersiveness and handcrafted feeling.

personally i think both of their worlds are too big.  i like dense populations.  i like virtual worlds teeming with life (player life)

No weather effects with Vista.  Am I the only one that this is semi-important to?  I went back and played again, and it was so disheartening to hear the weather but not be able to actually see it.  I dunno, to me at least, this is a major bug.  I like to explore worlds and see the cool stuff in them.  Not being able to see the weather was one of the main reasons I didn't resub. 

Great review.

I have not played this game previous to my recent trial so I can't speak to the comparisons of launch to now.

I've played 2 seperate trials trying to play different classes to see how they played. Along the way I discovered how in depth the crafting and diplomacy was.

Wow.....I created a 2nd trial just to play all the content. 4 different classes with only 1 being level 10 in all spheres. Crafting quests were integrated into the over all story which I thought was awesome..Diplomacy moved the story (Haven't seen in depth dialog like that in an MMO before) and the adventuring quests were... well, normal adventuring quests.

The variety has sold me. After I convice a few friends to try it out i'll be activating an account.

The trial is worth it...one little area with so much to do. I hope the rest of the world delivers that much content!!

I played recently during a welcome back campaign and things are certainly better.  Performance is leaps ahead of where it was last year.  Combat in VG has always been good, no change there.

Problem is the things that drove me away are still there... xp loss, corpse runs, lack of direction, mob rating system, group oriented game with  little to no low/mid level groups,smallish world.

I still have no idea why the word HUGE keeps coming up in reviews.  My Raki Disciple had been to 100% of two of the islands by level 20.  WoW landscape is huge, LotRO is good, EQ2 is good, VG is small but open.

But of all that, if SOE dropped the corpse runs, made it xp debt and made MOBs either solo/group with boss versions and not 1-6? dots plus classifiers I would be playing VG instead of LotRO.

 always been slightly tempted by this game, the graphics look good and the fact that the world is seemless makes them so much more awesome. crafting ecconomies are also fun, but at the end of the day pvp and combat is what I do the most.

Originally posted by gnomexxx

No weather effects with Vista.  Am I the only one that this is semi-important to?  I went back and played again, and it was so disheartening to hear the weather but not be able to actually see it.  I dunno, to me at least, this is a major bug.  I like to explore worlds and see the cool stuff in them.  Not being able to see the weather was one of the main reasons I didn't resub. 

I have vista and I see storm coming in, surroundings getting darker, trees swinging more vigorously and then the rain starts to pour in.

Or at the Northern Border the snow flakes swinging down.

I've tried quite a few other games when they come out but I keep playing VG. The enourmous world and the amount of quests is just captivating.

I have lvl 50 BM/50 tailor, 45 mino, 47 druid --- all together 10 characters. And I find new content all the time with my alts.

Grouping is the strongest point of the game play, the multitude of dungeon runs, you just need to find them ;p

Crafting is meaningful and diplomacy gives you the best laughs.

Yes the latest batch took us backwards with performance. So hoping to see improvement on it again in next patch.

Just to inform you of upcoming things: more raid content (Pantheon and Nexus), appearance slots, more char customization with new hair styles.

I just hope folks would give this game a shot  and leave their doubts behind -> SOE giving more devs.

But regardless I keep playing with our guild and alliance and have a good time e.g. getting our flying mount.

VG is a good game but still need to improve a lot of think like

1. Eliminate buggy quest.  Too many buggy quest on low level that's give bad impression to starter.   Also, on high level, quest quantity is not so important compare to quality.

2. Eliminate  non-sense quest such as kill 12 monster while their spawn only 6-7 and you must wait for the next spawn to finish it (or may be 10+ spawn, such as the quest in Brighted land).   Also a lot of quest that's take like 4-5 hours to find material or finish it (while reward is nothing special).  The Unicorn quest line also have many no-fun-just-grind-it quest.  

3. Reduce grinding and give more exp.   VG is suck at launch on grinding (seem like the original concept is YOU MUST GRIND , GRIND and GRIND) but a lot better now.   The Isle of Dawn is very good improvement.  If they can reduce the level of grinding it's more fun to play.    Just learn from the giant in MMORPG, that's why they got 10M+ player.    Player need FUN from game, not more work (that's already too many in real life).

4. In instance, all monster HP is too high.    It's take too long time to kill 1 monster, we must repeat every skill again and again for 1 trash mob.  It's no point for fun and challenge.    Instance need challenge, not grinding.

5. Group quest is too many.  Since level 20+, it's seem like you begin hard to solo leveling because most quest are group.  And you can imagine how hard to find group with low population in this game, so many player just stop playing soon.     This can easily solved, just change group quest to small group quest and small group quest to solo quest.  

6. Solve stucking problem.  For player who alway jump when running like me, we alway found stucking spot.   The unstuck command is bad because I alway found stuck point after long way of fighting to quest monster.  Warp back to nearest binding mean I must fight back again. ( the same as corpse run which is very annoying if you dead in cave). 

It's too big world and seems like there isn't many people there. It's good to have a big world and all but I think it's too big. The community there seems friendly and helpful. Although, I think they need a server merge or something.

 Love the big seemless world, but the problem is its too big. Imo i think they need to add more outpost or random npc under a tree or something,  that gives you weird or fun quest, just to make it more fun. 

Originally posted by Ekibiogami 

LOL More Content? Sure we need a little more Lvl 50 stuff but were about to get that and there is No way Im gana Belive that you have explored even half the Content on the way to 50 unless you got 10 alts... Its crazzy how mutch is in this game... and there are still empty areas to look around at.

Do we need more people? Sure but I really DONT want soe's retarted Eye casting its Gaze on Vanguard. I Would like a  few more Devs tho :P

 

And Great review Op :)

I don't disagree that the game doesn't have lots of content for 1-50.  Even enough to keep it fresh for creating alts over and over.

Two years post release and the game is, content wise, essentially the same as it was at release with a small amount of new content being added.  It is hard to recover and retain players when the game is essentially frozen in time.  

I just wanted to say that even though I'm not planning on playing Vanguard even after this re-review, the review itself was extremely well written and I hope we get this kind of quality in reviews on other games in the future =D

Awww... Vanguard... kinda like a lost love or an ex. It has marvels and beauties, and yet it has so many things NOT right. Like the dull quests, or the totally soulless citites, like the world more feeling like a theatre stage than an actual world - esepcially BECAUSE it is so vast and can be explored everywhere, the contrast feels to sharp to me. I never felt so less of the world in a world.

And those quests! There is NO guideline, I can barely do one quest in Stormwatch area, then all I can do is over since no more solo quests and no more people in that area, and I have to travel ALL over Telon to some other place to make another quest. Its so damn tiresome. I really dont want the other extreme, the WAR quest tunnel, but its like a giant had a chest full of quest and he was drunk and dropped quests all over the world. There is little coherence and little to guide you and *gradually* open up with a set of stories, like in LOTRO for instance. (LOTRO still having the ideal system of quest guidance, not totally confined but not spread senselessly all over either.)

On the other hand the fact you can really visit the entire open world never gets old, and its something I definitely miss in most other MMOs. Also the variety of races and classes is awesome and kinda lacking in most MMOs. More is more!

All in all 7/10 seems ok.

Originally posted by aryaba

I played Vanguard at release and although beautiful and showing lots of promise, it was way too buggy for my tastes.

A year later, my account was reactivated for free and I went back and played the game.  A lot of problems had been fixed.  I was amazed at how beautiful the game actually was and it played much more smoothly.  Ultimately, however, I did not keep the account active.

Vanguard has a lot going for it.  It's beautiful, there seems to be a lot to do, but it also feels like it is missing something.  Some hook, that just didn't keep me in the game.  I honestly, don't know what it is.  Perhaps it is the low population of the servers?  I always go back to WoW, most likely because of the friends I have in the game.

If my account was reactivated again, I would try it out again.  If it inspired me, I could definitely end up staying.  However, I feel it is just missing something, something I fail to pinpoint.

I agree. I have installed an played the game three separate times. Though a bit buggy even now, I think the game is brilliant. But for some reason, I just am unwilling to sub for the long haul.

i remember at the time it was released people telling me in these forums that it was my pc to blame for the poor perfromace i was getting . the same pc thats played age of conan and plenty of new single player games without any real issues . i think that goes to show how many people think they know a lot more than they actually do about computers . even though they say they work in programming or i.t. . lets hope with the global financial crisis a lot of these incompetants end up doing what they are ment to i.e. sweeping streets or working in superrmarkets .i m sure some of them will

that aside the review of vanguard sounds like a fair assement of the state of the game . although i do still feel ripped off because i m one of the idiots that went out a brought it . not a mistake i ve made a second time . i think it did a lot of damage to mmos . the only way i would return is if they gave a free welcome back months play ( not the poorly advertised one they did a while back ) and maybe the first 3 months at half price . these things never happen though because mmo companys seam to be run by morons half the time and lets face it there bound to be some moron who ll say that its a bad idea to offer such incentives as a responce to this post . even though it proberbly would actually give people reason to try a dying game .

Another generic sales pitch by this website for how this disaster of a game is somehow wonderful now. My generic response, again, is "no".

You list lack of raiding content under your cons, but only mention the primary raid dungeon in the game in passing when discussing diplomacy???

Just because you are unaware of the raiding content doesn't mean it is not worth mentioning.  Ancient Port Warehouse is a massive and masterfully put together raid dungeon, there are 11 additional raid encounters including several which have not yet been killed on any server.  There is an end game dungeon, and three raid dungeons in the works over the next year.

Would I like more end game content?  Sure, but to say that a lack of raiding content is a major flaw in Vanguard is a pretty ignorant statement.  There are no less than 20 guilds whose primary focus is raiding on my server alone, many of whom have been raiding since December of last year.

With the exception of FFXI , Vanguard's raid encounters are some of the best I have seen in any game.

Originally posted by Solude

I played recently during a welcome back campaign and things are certainly better.  Performance is leaps ahead of where it was last year.  Combat in VG has always been good, no change there.

Problem is the things that drove me away are still there... xp loss, corpse runs, lack of direction, mob rating system, group oriented game with  little to no low/mid level groups,smallish world.

I still have no idea why the word HUGE keeps coming up in reviews.  My Raki Disciple had been to 100% of two of the islands by level 20.  WoW landscape is huge, LotRO is good, EQ2 is good, VG is small but open.

But of all that, if SOE dropped the corpse runs, made it xp debt and made MOBs either solo/group with boss versions and not 1-6? dots plus classifiers I would be playing VG instead of LotRO.

The word HUGE keeps coming up because the world IS huge. You have barely scratched the surface if you have only explored the starting area of the Raki. Dungeons are ENORMOUS. Try Khegars End, Ruins of Vol Tuniel, etc.

At the higher levels the Nusibe Necropolis is enormous... Ancient Port Warehouse (raid area) is probably the largest raid zone ever in ANY game.

Corpse Runs are no big deal. Experience loss is NOTHING if you recover your body (like 4 kills to replace your lost experience). The game has always been touted as a group based game.

to the person who wrote the review - well done. You covered a lot of thoughts that I have had over the last few months. I have really enjoyed VG over the last 6 months or so and I will continue to play.

It tickles me now and then to come back to Vanguard.

But then i know SOE is always good for messing with games and bad touch with the playerbase.

I just hope the skeletal crew will iron out the bugs and up the performance.

Rift was a *must* to bring the players together but after that they should have kept this game more like it was originaly planned.

just me humble opinion..cheers(always thought this was a smiley with a beer..im focused on the wrong things in live :P)

Originally posted by dhayes68

I've not played V:SOH and don't plan to (I'm sure its a fine game, this is not a hater post) but the article pointed out something that really bugs me in general about the current state of the MMO industry:  Companies release games in pitifully incomplete states and then expect us to pay sub fees while they complete development.  It seems apparent this was the case here and I can tell you it is the case with AoC.

I'm not talking about bugs.  I mean missing content, incomplete content, and barebones content put in as a place holder until they could put the final ver in. Of course take all of that and factor in that the devs are basically going to be finishing the game in a live environment and you can add an insane amout of often ridiculous bugs as well.

If this keeps on happening its going to become, if it hasn't already, an industry standard unless players decide to do something about it.  Seems wrong that the players of the first year or two should pay full price to finance continued development of what should be a complete product.

Personally I won't play any more MMO's unless it comes with a free trial, and the client is free. If they can impress me with that, I'll pay sub fees forever.

 

VG Actually does have a free trial, and the client is free.  You can create a trial acct, then convert it to a full sub w/o paying any additional fee beyond the monthly sub.