Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by tillamook

It’s pretty lame that everyone here is trying to be so divisive over an upcoming game, past games ect.

 

 

 

  I get your point Tilla ,  I am doing my best to stay on topic of this new game when I get attacked by someone who I know will not even support the game. Move along , Move along.

 

 

lol, the Darkfall trolls are annoying. One thing to remember is this game will sell itself with its quality and uniqueness when it goes live regardless of what others think or say. It's gonna have to stand on its own, and I'm pretty sure it will. I hope to see a number of familiar systems from other games used in this game, and based on what they have said and what people are ignoring, they will. One thing to keep in mind is how many people lost pre-cu are actually on the BW forums, that says enough for me.

I think SWG has some things to offer and I'm taking what the BW devs have said at face value (something for everyone, including the elder players) as they call us. I don’t disagree that there were some aspects pre-cu that will just not work in an MMO. They said they are taking the best, so I trust they have researched it enough to know what that is. It’s no secret some of the broken concepts were ones we loved, I don’t expect to see those and I won’t be angry about not seeing them. But like I said, some things are worth taking a look at again, and they will be.

Anyways.....You got people who have never played swg, or hated pre-cu trolling. NGE fans upset overa new SW MMO troling. You have pre-cu vets who aren't onboard with this because they have not read all the articles regarding it or only want an exact copy of pre-cu, trolling, and in between all that WoW players who only like WoW but are watching this game trolling about how it should be like WoW and nothing else.

It’s hard to ignore the noise, but I guess one of the great things to come out of all of it is, no other game has had this much hype and noise, good or bad in years, that says something right there. Hell even Bliizzard has talked about the game more than once, that says even more.
 

Originally posted by tillamook

lol, the Darkfall trolls are annoying. One thing to remember is this game will sell itself with its quality and uniqueness when it goes live regardless of what others think or say. It's gonna have to stand on its own, and I'm pretty sure it will. I hope to see a number of familiar systems from other games used in this game, and based on what they have said and what people are ignoring, they will. One thing to keep in mind is how many people lost pre-cu are actually on the BW forums, that says enough for me.

That's pretty much what I think. it will be what it will be and wether it's theme park, sandbox, a mix or neither, it'll probably still be a good game.

It doesn't matter how many times people start these threads and the opposing camps argue. You're not going to change whatever Bioware has in mind for the game at this stage, polish that crystal ball all you want it won't do much.

Also what ever happened to appreciate games from the developers as they intend the game to be. Every time I await a new game there's always these people stating the game will suck IF, it will be great IF ect... Blah blah blah. Wait and see.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by mcharj11

How is it news to you, GTA is as much of a sandbox as WoW, there is no importance of economy, no importance of crafting (no crafting in GTA). The term for GTA is open world or thempark, yes there is a relatively large world (for a sp game) but all you do in it are missions (that involve combat), combat, and travel.

At least Fallout has crafting ect and more of a sandbox feel to it.

Um, sandbox != economic/crafting simulator.

The very core of sandbox is simply the freedom to explore non-linear content at your discretion, ideally with the tools to shape your own experience. That content may or may not include crafting or an economy.

Even Raph Koster acknowledges GTA as a sandbox game.

 

 

I can do all that and more in WoW, LoTRO, EQ, EQII, VG, AoC, WAR, Baldur's Gate series, Neverwinter Nights series, Gothic series, Vampire, Mass Effect, and Arcanum.

None of these are sandbox yet offer more exploration, better story, more everything really. So why should GTA be called a sandbox when these titles are not?

 

Take it up with the sandbox police, brother.

All I can tell you is that neither crafting nor an economy are defining qualities of a sandbox game, whether you like it or not.

 

And I'd disagree. The term in itself, "sandbox" was used in particular because it creates in the mind the picture of building and creating things in a sandbox. Well, crafting is the way to build lasting "things" in an MMO. If you want more players to feel invested in it (the game world) in any way, of course.

 

Be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that Grand Theft Auto is still widely regarded as a "sandbox" due to its nonlinear/emergent gameplay, whether it has crafting or not.

Relying only on second hand information as the GTA series never interested me, I would say it has sandbox elements, but doesn't, in my opinion, break the demarkation line. Keeping in mind that I have not played it, of course.
 

In my view, any game that has an "end game" focus or that can be "won" isn't sandbox. The concept of getting through content X and Y to ultimately get to content Z is rail directed. When I envision a sandbox environment content X and Y aren't precursors to Z. Instead you have Z1, Z2 and Z3, with the numbers representing just being in a different location or under a different culture.

It's hard to describe on a forum, heh.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

Stop blaming the sandbox concept for SOE's failure to make a game feel like Star Wars. The opened ended sandbox games hav proven time and time again to be real good like with games such as GTA or Fallout.

SWG sucked because it had no content.

Not in a MMO. The biggest success of a sandbox MMO is Eve and it is niche at best.

There is a reason. It is EASYIER to do sandbox in a SP game because the developers need to consider only what ONE guy will do. In a MMO, they have to figure out the interaction and sure it will work.

Plus, Fallout 3 is as much sandbox as WOW. It basically have a bunch of quests and you can follow the quest lines while you can choose the order to do so. WOW is the same.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by mcharj11

How is it news to you, GTA is as much of a sandbox as WoW, there is no importance of economy, no importance of crafting (no crafting in GTA). The term for GTA is open world or thempark, yes there is a relatively large world (for a sp game) but all you do in it are missions (that involve combat), combat, and travel.

At least Fallout has crafting ect and more of a sandbox feel to it.

Um, sandbox != economic/crafting simulator.

The very core of sandbox is simply the freedom to explore non-linear content at your discretion, ideally with the tools to shape your own experience. That content may or may not include crafting or an economy.

Even Raph Koster acknowledges GTA as a sandbox game.

 

   The Sandbox ability of Pre-CU SWG was sweeping and the mechanics allow even the most casual player to become involved in the game. Since I have not played a recent version of GTA  I am not sure but the economy and crafting does allow a sandbox ability which allowed player driven content .

 On SWG , players would know who made the best weapons and armor, the best foods, and with a blend of Master Merchant and Smuggler on my server , I sold the cheapest Spices creating opposition from the Imperials and my fellow Smugglers and that sure did kick up the sand around me.

Its my hope that TOR will have such mechanics that will allow player driven content because that was the hook of the Pre-CU.

 

Geez

You Uncle Owen in the crusty pink panties PRECioUs players wont let it go will ya?

This is a thread about the game NOT being SWG2.

From everything we know, that has been released news-wise, and from Bioware games and KOTOR itself, there is strong reason to believe it will be an adventure oriented game.

Not tilling fields ala SWG.

Give it a rest already. It is old listening to you sim folks try to attach your gamestyle into a game where the target audience wants nothing to do with it.

Even better than not being SWG in a new shell, this game will do great not to have a great many of the social misfits that were active in SWG.

Hopefully an adventure game does just that. Let them "live their own story"  in another game.

BTW...I noticed Han mentioning that sandbox can be about a game being wide open. I think it has been established around here that the term "sandbox" is used to convey the idea of a trade-skills on par with adventurers type game, combined with siming a life in a game. Something most folks dont want wanna do(Ie live a second life).

 

 

    Its also my hope that those who for some strange reason feel that SOE has done little to no wrong over the past 4 years stay with SOE products, get kicked out by their spouses and have to go back home and live with their mother.

 

 

Heck

When me and the wife used to raid in EQ, we would at times talk some general things about it to my mom. Thus she had a little understanding about MMO gaming.

A while back I explained to her about the "vets"...and their still crying over a game for 3 yrs. Even she got a laugh about it. You cant find something as demented on Jerry Springer FFS.

I would rather be confined to an old folks home with my mom and her friends ala Grandma's Boy, while having a daily kniting quota ala Happy Gilmore than have the mindset that it is "normal" to whine about a game this long. No need to mention still threatening litigation, or the many other things that are evidenced in the "vet"  forum  on a routine basis.

BTW Rodo...you talk about wanting folks to get divorced...is that testimony that you arent even married as you "claim" to be?  Cause the so-called Mrs Rodo that you sometimes talk about must be a real "winner" to be married to a guy that dresses up as a clown to whine over a video game.  Outside of Sam-da-Man, I cant think of a bigger joke in the MMO ranks than you.

And once more....this is a thread about this game NOT being SWG. So once again I will state for the record that I agree with the OP, and pray to God this game is one of the best content laden games ever. A place where Uncle Owen has no use, thus he has no choice but to find another game.

Mighty kind of the folks that keep "trolling" on the topic.

 

 

Sorry, I'll stop whining when a company releases an MMO with half the features, possibilites, and freedom SWG had. Until then, I'm going to continue to ask for what we lost. 

What is sadder is when someone actually has a million options of what they want, in this case a shallow linear hold your hand themepark, yet still demands more and more. That is the most childish thing of all.

Poster child of psychotic behavior. /golfclap

Troll a topic cause another game was cancelled. MMORPG.com would be a much better site without folks of this nature.

Here is some food for thought....you arent "owed" another game like SWG. To top it off, it is rather demented to think a SW title would have to be SWG2. Yet here you are, stomping your feet cause it isnt. For all the sandboxers that claim to be so "mature", this is about as childish as it gets.

And Jestor...you have proven yourself a bigger putz IMO, and I didnt think it possible. Talk about losing your Mom and sister, yet continue to make an imbecile out of yourself, on the internet, over a game. I am sure they are "proud" of ya. Seems to me a more proper outlet for ya would of been cancer, and joining the others in the world looking for a cure...or helping those with it meet their end as comfortably as possible.

Instead you focused your RL woes onto a game, and in turn you became a joke to the MMO ranks. Read this quoted post by Abrahmm...that is basically you in a nutshell. Isnt it rather pathetic to not be able to let go?

As far as your questioning if I will play this new SW title...I will follow this like I did SWG before launch. If it is along my lines of a "fun" game, and has no major problems reported then of course I will make the initial investment to give it a fair try. After that I will base it solely on my impressions.

If it gets a lot of flack before launch, then I will wait as I did with SWG. Purchasing it later down the line, thus allowing the game to be straightened out before I try it.

I just hope Bioware has the balls to stick with their vision.  I'm sick to death of MMO's that are nothing more than crafting / raiding / social experiment simulators. 

I'm looking forward to this MMO because it looks like my preferred play style, solo, will be equally rewarded along with groupers and guilders.  I can't stand the current arbitrary formula that infects the genre currently.  This belief that raiders work harder than groupers who work harder than soloers and therefore should get better rewards and content, bullshit.

For once, I want to play an MMO and NOT feel like a second class citizen and always having my fees pay for someone else's play style.  I want to play a GAME, not some social experiment gone wrong.

If Bioware can deliver this, I will forever remain an adoring and paying fan.

Classic: OMG.. a do you guys know what TEXT is? Thats all this is no more no less yet lol you take it so personal.. yes you do .. to sit there and attack someone and call them names with the old.. troll .. troll, kid or call others that dont like Darkfall trolls.. yeah like they even care blah blah... I think you left out.. OMG your so retarded!

OP to say SWG was a failure is just subjective. People still pay $15 a month "BLINK". It was fun once to stand in line to get a buff to watch someone pull out there HUGE pet to LAG everyone.. haha ..was really fun. But your looking back with 20/20 (lost some there) ..

To say the new one will be better or worse (same with Darkfall) when its not even in beta (darkfall is) you cant play it you can only read or see some vid makes you sound foolish.

Originally posted by Moaky07

And Jestor...you have proven yourself a bigger putz IMO, and I didnt think it possible. Talk about losing your Mom and sister, yet continue to make an imbecile out of yourself, on the internet, over a game. I am sure they are "proud" of ya. Seems to me a more proper outlet for ya would of been cancer, and joining the others in the world looking for a cure...or helping those with it meet their end as comfortably as possible.

Instead you focused your RL woes onto a game, and in turn you became a joke to the MMO ranks. Read this quoted post by Abrahmm...that is basically you in a nutshell. Isnt it rather pathetic to not be able to let go?

As far as your questioning if I will play this new SW title...I will follow this like I did SWG before launch. If it is along my lines of a "fun" game, and has no major problems reported then of course I will make the initial investment to give it a fair try. After that I will base it solely on my impressions.

If it gets a lot of flack before launch, then I will wait as I did with SWG. Purchasing it later down the line, thus allowing the game to be straightened out before I try it.

  You know something folks ,  I am going to go out on limb here and make a prediction , Moaky Trolls the Jestor more then he plays MMOs.

Its ok if he does because everybody - Loves that Jestor!

Look Moaky at the new view ! Hey I can block you but were would be the Fun in all of that.

I don't even know why SWG is an issue or why both sides constantly bring it up. Regardless of you feel about it, for all intents and purposes the game is dead or on its last legs. There are so many lessons to learn from that abortion. It should be the manual for all developers to read on what NOT to do.

Anyways, this game is being made by a company that has no tie to SWG. This company actually has a better track record with the Star Wars gaming license than anyone else. I think it will be more like that HUGELY successful KOTOR game just in a bigger setting. It's not going to be SWG style sandbox, it's not going to be either new SWG or old SWG. So enough with the comparisons already. That would be like comparing the success of STO to activision's many failures with the Star Trek license.Does not compute.

Originally posted by ktanner3

I don't even know why SWG is an issue or why both sides constantly bring it up. Regardless of you feel about it, for all intents and purposes the game is dead or on its last legs. There are so many lessons to learn from that abortion. It should be the manual for all developers to read on what NOT to do.

Anyways, this game is being made by a company that has no tie to SWG. This company actually has a better track record with the Star Wars gaming license than anyone else. I think it will be more like that HUGELY successful KOTOR game just in a bigger setting. It's not going to be SWG style sandbox, it's not going to be either new SWG or old SWG. So enough with the comparisons already. That would be like comparing the success of STO to activision's many failures with the Star Trek license.Does not compute.

I'd agree with you, except...

Bioware Austin is being led by "industry veterans" Gordon Walton and Richard Vogel, both of whom worked on Galaxies. Vogel in particular was the Executive Producer of SWG and formerly V.P. of Production at Sony Online Entertainment.

Personally, I don't know how responsible either of them were for SWG's failures, but I think the association is cause for legitimate concern.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by Moaky07

And Jestor...you have proven yourself a bigger putz IMO, and I didnt think it possible. Talk about losing your Mom and sister, yet continue to make an imbecile out of yourself, on the internet, over a game. I am sure they are "proud" of ya. Seems to me a more proper outlet for ya would of been cancer, and joining the others in the world looking for a cure...or helping those with it meet their end as comfortably as possible.

Instead you focused your RL woes onto a game, and in turn you became a joke to the MMO ranks. Read this quoted post by Abrahmm...that is basically you in a nutshell. Isnt it rather pathetic to not be able to let go?

As far as your questioning if I will play this new SW title...I will follow this like I did SWG before launch. If it is along my lines of a "fun" game, and has no major problems reported then of course I will make the initial investment to give it a fair try. After that I will base it solely on my impressions.

If it gets a lot of flack before launch, then I will wait as I did with SWG. Purchasing it later down the line, thus allowing the game to be straightened out before I try it.

  You know something folks ,  I am going to go out on limb here and make a prediction , Moaky Trolls the Jestor more then he plays MMOs.

Its ok if he does because everybody - Loves that Jestor!

Are you really such a space cadet to of made this claim?
 

I have said several times that I am not currently playing a MMO. My health woes prevents me from dedicating the time needed to truly advance in my game of choice... which is EQ. With the new system of hirelings, I intend to see if I can do more with my 2 box setup here soon. My play hrs vary widely, which keeps ya from having steady grps with friends.

As far as my posting, when I do respond to you I would reckon it is over 80% of the time cause you deemed to respond directly to me, or one of  my posts.

Yet I am trolling you? Friggen priceless. Do you hear trumpets blare when you post as well? The fanfare must be deafening.

You have issues Rodo.

Obviously the loss of your game gave you something to focus your anger at after losing family members. It is kind of sad. Then again, it is quite sad you have family members that dont think to get you the counseling you obviously need.

Luv the Jestor? Not I...but I am starting to pity ya. For you to be so emotionally unstable, while not being able to recognize it is pretty tragic.

Get help man...seriously. ANd if the Mrs encourages your behavior, then she is probably a candidate for it as well.

Originally posted by dsebutchr

SWG is an utter failure.  Talk about a waste of game.  I'm a huge SW fan and SWG was known for years and years as the game that killed star wars by most of the people I know.  None of us liked it.

Who the hell wants to be the heroic entertainer in a bar....nobody know.

Who wants to enjoy the fantasy life of Aunt Beru...

The doctor class had to buy money to make freakin medicines....talk about broken POS.

If they take TOR and make it completely unlike SWG I could not be happier.  I want the game to be fun. Nothing about SWG was fun.   I could care less about this sandbox concept.  Some people whine about that like it's more important than having fun.  Gimme a break, you have your opinion, just like I have mine.  My opinion says yours sux.  Doesn't make yours or mine better.  Deal with it.

How about waiting until the game comes out and THEN giving your opinion on whether it sux or is great.

wow....just wow.

Actually this is a bigger failure than SWG NGE, single player games with a chat box what a great improvement over SWG lol....

---

Originally posted by ktanner3

---

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Reply to the OP:
If you don't like sanbox, and you don't want to be a character in the cantina, and you don't want to be a moisture farmer, you should love the new SWG.  I don't really understand where you're coming from.
SOE did it's best to remove all of these elements from the game, and replace it with a badly bugged FPS game.  They deleted most of the game's professions, emptied the cantina's, and allowed everyone to become a jedi at login.  From your comments, it seems that you would love this game.
It also seems like SOE was listening to people like you when they changed the game out from under all of the current players.  You seem like the new target audience.  Maybe you should try it out before you comment...
 

---

 
Seriously. If the OP hates the old skill based SWG because of the sandbox elements then he should be LOVING the new part FPS ,instant gratifying,no thinking SWG. It was made specifically for those players who don't want anything challenging, who don't like groups,who want everything handed to them by a quest  and who despise any "inconvienences" which they turn around as "bullies pushing a play style on them."
Have fun with your 10k sub game.

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Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by mcharj11

How is it news to you, GTA is as much of a sandbox as WoW, there is no importance of economy, no importance of crafting (no crafting in GTA). The term for GTA is open world or thempark, yes there is a relatively large world (for a sp game) but all you do in it are missions (that involve combat), combat, and travel.

At least Fallout has crafting ect and more of a sandbox feel to it.

Um, sandbox != economic/crafting simulator.

The very core of sandbox is simply the freedom to explore non-linear content at your discretion, ideally with the tools to shape your own experience. That content may or may not include crafting or an economy.

Even Raph Koster acknowledges GTA as a sandbox game.

 

 

I can do all that and more in WoW, LoTRO, EQ, EQII, VG, AoC, WAR, Baldur's Gate series, Neverwinter Nights series, Gothic series, Vampire, Mass Effect, and Arcanum.

None of these are sandbox yet offer more exploration, better story, more everything really. So why should GTA be called a sandbox when these titles are not?

 

Take it up with the sandbox police, brother.

All I can tell you is that neither crafting nor an economy are defining qualities of a sandbox game, whether you like it or not.

 

And I'd disagree. The term in itself, "sandbox" was used in particular because it creates in the mind the picture of building and creating things in a sandbox. Well, crafting is the way to build lasting "things" in an MMO. If you want more players to feel invested in it (the game world) in any way, of course.

 

Be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that Grand Theft Auto is still widely regarded as a "sandbox" due to its nonlinear/emergent gameplay, whether it has crafting or not.

I didn't really play too much GTA4 but wouldn't the fact that you have to unlock the later parts of the city by doing missions be "linear" instead of having it all open from the start?

SWG: where everybody is a nobody.

-one review of SWG:NGE

Originally posted by Tzimiscechi

 

SWG: where everybody is a nobody.

-one review of SWG:NGE

 

wow. That was SO clever. Did you shit yourself thinking that hard?
 

Well I have played alot WOW and alot SWG Pre cu and cu.

What can i say. When i think back, im just done with WOW, not much about it, I dont care. But with SWG i miss my character and pre cu. I miss the universe and how everything worked. Pll just loved that game. . . But it has some issues. Not enough PVP, and to easy house/city creation that which would never dissapear when you where inactive. . . It became a big world with empty houses everywhere.

Best thing about SWG: player based economy. The best of. . . The template system. . .

Best thing about WOW: Not really anything, I guees for me i liked the PVP battleground, but still no, its just annoying to think back on that game. . . . I guees it is because i always needed to do 23354 things. WOW makes you stressed. . . Like "OMG, new fucking Arena gear, AGAIN. I just got the full gladiator suit and now there is a meciless, weeeee I have to do the same again, and i know when i have the merciless full tier, then there will be a new :D Wee im so happy, im a stupid idiot".

WOW Sucked

SWG Rocked

the op is apart of the pew pew crowd 'who don't like to read' that the NGE aimed at

Originally posted by teiohFromSWG

the op is apart of the pew pew crowd 'who don't like to read' that the NGE aimed at

Didn't you get the memo? Being an angry SWG vet and hater is out now. Now we really don't give a crap about SWG, how bad SOE sucks, how lowly populated the servers in that game are ect ect. It's so 2 years ago.