I hear so many people rave about how great EVE Online, but I tried the trial and wasn't that impressed.

Well, I'll rephrase that. For everything that did impress me, there was something that equally depressed me. The sheer massive-ness of the game is something to be reckened with, but the more I played of the trial the less impressed I was in the space I was in. So at first, I was super-impressed about this game, but then I started doing auto-pilot and between going into planets and realising that this game is really, really empty. The more I played the more I felt it was void of content - the irregularities of going into stars and planets to mine some astroids (that are smaller than said planets and stars).

You have an avatar, but you never use it. You have a name, but you live inside of a ship. And either it is impossible to just regularly move, or you have to literally point and click. I hate having to point and click everytime I want to go somewhere; it is annoying and shouldn't be needed. I read about corporations, but I honestly never met anyone in game because it was so vast. I didn't like the fact that you lose everything when you die (I mean, why don't they just call it permadeath?), and the fact that you couldn't build your skills made it feel like you didn't even have any, and that what you were doing online was less important than the simple seniority complex. 

Honestly, when I left the EVE trial I left as if I had only learned a very small portion of the game, but I of the very small portion I did play I didn't feel like it was worth looking at the entire picture.

I would just like someone to prove me wrong about my accusations ... show me how this game is so great. 

Well for starters you can have a clone that saves your skill points. If you die you resurrect at the station where you've stored your clone. You lose everything on your ship as well as your implants. However, if you have insurance for your ship it will mitigate your loss.

For me, EVE is all about the planning and general geekery like numbers and averages and stuff.

Also, I couldn't play EVE if it weren't for EVEMon. I'd get quickly overwhelmed with managing my 8 characters. Even with only one character it certainly increases the fun factor by 10.

Originally posted by Mackerni

Honestly, when I left the EVE trial I left as if I had only learned a very small portion of the game, but I of the very small portion I did play I didn't feel like it was worth looking at the entire picture.

You were very right when you said this. The eve trial is far to short for a player to come close to experiencing all the game has to offer. Really though, all I can say is that Eve isn't for everyone.

It's hard to get into Eve. It takes time to learn how to train skills and which ones you should be training. It's hard to master the art of making money. It's hard to learn how to find a good corporation. Etc.

But seriously. If you "never met anyone" in Eve... you didn't try to meet anyone AT ALL. Eve is big, but any starting system you would have been placed in would have had dozens of other players in it. Just because you can't physicall walk up to someone and /wave at them doesn't mean they aren't there.

Frankly I would say Eve isn't the game for you. You are hung up on having a face but not a body and on the way you pilot a ship... and I'm sorry but as I read your post I just was hearing you say "Dude! I can't /dance with people! I can't see my new cloak on my character! I'm not force-fed quests to do! This game is empty!"

Originally posted by kedoremos

Well for starters you can have a clone that saves your skill points. If you die you resurrect at the station where you've stored your clone. You lose everything on your ship as well as your implants. However, if you have insurance for your ship it will mitigate your loss.

 

For me, EVE is all about the planning and general geekery like numbers and averages and stuff.

 

Also, I couldn't play EVE if it weren't for EVEMon. I'd get quickly overwhelmed with managing my 8 characters. Even with only one character it certainly increases the fun factor by 10.

 

1. I didn't know about a clone system. I really didn't understand what I was doing when I was doing it, however...

2. How I get maximum-ly involved in these numbers and averages? I actually like math and wouldn't mind dealing with that.

3. I don't even know what EVEMon is. What is it?

Originally posted by Mackerni

I would just like someone to prove me wrong about my accusations ... show me how this game is so great. 

I would but everything you said is completely true, though you might find things more to your liking after Ambulation comes in later this year.

People rave about EvE because it's not WoW, doesn't try to be WoW, and has a very strong appeal to a very specific segment of gamers, namely those who fit into any of these categories (the more, the better)

• Like challenge.  You can not be bad and succeed in EvE, not even for one day.  Every action involves real risk, beyond just wasting your time like in other MMOs.
• Like to think.  EvE is much more cerebral than visceral.
• Want a game where your guild / corporation is more than a chat channel and a tag under your name.  Corporations are central to EvE.
• Like to build their own character and not follow a class template
• Want a game where everyone can play together without being segregated by some kind of arbitrary 'level' where they have to complete some mandatory grind before they can even pretend to be useful.
• Want a game with no mandatory grinding.
• Want a game with a functioning economy and where crafters actually serve a major role and not just a sideshot
• Want a game where content never becomes obsolete
• Want a game where new players can compete against older players without being at a huge disadvantage simply because they're new.
• Want a game that's not about gear.
• Want a game with minimal 'twitch' aspects.
• Want a game that's about the game, not some end-game everyone eventually gets forced into
• Want a game where you follow your own path, not some path the devs have set out for you.
• Want a game that rewards innovative and/or crafty players, instead of nerfing, banning, or otherwise punishing them.

Of course, all that sounds good but the end results that a lot of people can't deal with are that you are fully accountable for your own actions, you are expected to find your own path and not chase a carrot on a stick, and be able to deal with risk.  It's not for everyone, it doesn't try to be, doesn't want to be, because people who like EvE tend to stay for a long time, much longer than in other MMOs.  I believe I read that something like 50% of the release players from 5 years ago are still playing - how many other MMOs can claim retention like that?

I like to run profitablity calcs on XXX item for production...  Then laugh my ass off at how much "time" people are losing in some cases.   Very sucessful and interesting PvP in that case.

Originally posted by fischsemmel

Frankly I would say Eve isn't the game for you. You are hung up on having a face but not a body and on the way you pilot a ship... and I'm sorry but as I read your post I just was hearing you say "Dude! I can't /dance with people! I can't see my new cloak on my character! I'm not force-fed quests to do! This game is empty!"

I really resent the way you place me into the category of linear-thinking Warcraft'ers just because I simply did not enjoy my experience at EVE Online.

Frankly there are just some things about EVE Online that make it an un-acceptable game to me. I don't care how 'sandbox-y' it is, if it has NO twitch elements, I just can't play it. One thing that I've always liked about MMOs was the immersion and after the character creation process, I did not feel it what-so-ever. 

Don't get me wrong. I don't like to be 'force-fed quests'. I want a MMO to allow me to make quests for others to embark on. They really just haven't made the MMO for me yet. I'm really looking for something inbetween Spore-The Sims-Civilization-Star Wars Galaxies with a MMO twist and some original ideas to throw into the ring. 

Just don't throw me into the 'you're too dumb to play EVE' ring just because I don't like it. I don't like it because I'm dumb, I don't like it because I have other tastes.

Originally posted by Mackerni

I really resent the way you place me into the category of linear-thinking Warcraft'ers just because I simply did not enjoy my experience at EVE Online. 

Quite possibly the greatest thing about EvE is that if you don't like someone, you can shoot them and take all their stuff. 

But you tried it, you didn't like it, you said why, you asked why other people like it, we answered.  This is the part where all agree we have different tastes and go on with our lives.

EVE is a very niche game, as was stated above the geekiness appeals to some. Also, as stated above the trial is to short to really get into the game, to know the other players and what is really going on with the politics and player interaction.

This is the draw back to EVE, you have to spend alot of time playing in order to get anything out of it. unlike many MMOs that are very here and now, EVE is much more subtle some time to much so.

EVE is just not for everyone, doesn't make it a bad game or those who don't like it less of a gamer. Just the way it is.

1) find a guide on how to make a good character

2) find eve university. Stay there until you are clued in.

3) join a 0.0 alliance.  Learn the ways of the 0.0 jedi

4) Help your alliance take over 0.0

5) Goto websites outside of eve and help new people

S*D

oh yet another thread about this
i see in the OP the lack of knowledge which means:
1) you dont know about the official eve-online wikipedia
2) you dont read the stick of this section tool and tips or the links sticky
3)you dont read the official stick from the official forums Q&A section

my tip is read this PDF and you will have the basic knowledge for many aspects of eve-online

Originally posted by x_rast_x
[snip]

• Like challenge.  You can not be bad and succeed in EvE, not even for one day.  Every action involves real risk, beyond just wasting your time like in other MMOs.
• Like to think.  EvE is much more cerebral than visceral.
• Want a game where your guild / corporation is more than a chat channel and a tag under your name.  Corporations are central to EvE.
• Like to build their own character and not follow a class template
• Want a game where everyone can play together without being segregated by some kind of arbitrary 'level' where they have to complete some mandatory grind before they can even pretend to be useful.
• Want a game with no mandatory grinding.
• Want a game with a functioning economy and where crafters actually serve a major role and not just a sideshot
• Want a game where content never becomes obsolete
• Want a game where new players can compete against older players without being at a huge disadvantage simply because they're new.
• Want a game that's not about gear.
• Want a game with minimal 'twitch' aspects.
• Want a game that's about the game, not some end-game everyone eventually gets forced into
• Want a game where you follow your own path, not some path the devs have set out for you.
• Want a game that rewards innovative and/or crafty players, instead of nerfing, banning, or otherwise punishing them.

The thing that most disappoints me about EVE (besides the game) is how superior some of its players act. Even using the points you listed, EVE fails in the eyes of many. EVE has about the same challenge level as any other game out there. EVE really isn't that visceral; I think you may want to check your definitions, because it is about as visceral as using ETRADE to buy some stocks. Not only ARE there class templates, the research and manufacturing system painfully enforces them. Grinding is EVERYWHERE in the game, whether it is mining asteroids for hours or repeating the same missions to get standing up. The fact that most corps (guilds) will only take players with a minimum number of skill points shows that players DO have to complete some arbitrary levels before they become useful. And new players CAN NOT COMPETE with older players without being at a huge disadvantage - ship size, manufacturing ability, what equipment can be used, etc... are all better for older players than newer ones.

EVE is a unique game that some people will find interesting. In the end, though, it isn't that profound or even deeper than any other game out there - it just explores certain avenues that other games have ignored. In fact, a big chunk of EVE revolves around this simple concept: buy low, sell high. Grasp that concept, and EVE is cake.

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Originally posted by Mackerni

I would just like someone to prove me wrong about my accusations ... show me how this game is so great. 

---

you can't be proven wrong as what you are talking about is the opinions you have formed based on your preferences. you have your right to them as i have a right to mine.

I will try to explain a bit about why I like though.

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Originally posted by Mackerni

You have an avatar, but you never use it. You have a name, but you live inside of a ship.

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i wrote this elswhere and i think it applies here

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Originally posted by nurgles
One of the most common criticisms of EVE is that you are only a spaceship. I find this very puzzling and missing one of the points of the story aspects of the game. A very simple way to put this is that the EVE pod pilot is transhuman. Technology has lifted them beyond the normal mortal concerns; they are effectively immortal and extend their awareness within aircraft carrier sized spaceships.

The spaceships become an extension of their identity, however one that can be modified at will (depending on budget and training). In the words of the developers, “the eve pod pilot is considered a god amongst men”.

So when I see someone unable to grasp that a ship and an avatar can represent your character I assume they have not thought through how the impact of the environment that pod pilot would experiences would have on their sense of identity.

They are simply not human anymore so why would they expose their vulnerable meat puppet to danger outside of the identity recording device in the pod?

I know that a lot of people can’t get away from the idea of being human first and foremost, that transhumanism is out of their ideas of what can happen to humans in a science fiction setting.

---

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Originally posted by Mackerni

I read about corporations, but I honestly never met anyone in game because it was so vast.

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this takes effort on the behalf of the player. It also take some time to make connections and develop trust etc. Here is the latest political map. The central blue area is empire, all the other areas are player controled or contested.

To me the fact that these regions change hands and have a history as part of a single server persistent world rock my boat. You have a developed history that was made by players and a future to be built by them. Do you want to be part of that future? This is what keeps me playing.

---

Originally posted by Mackerni

didn't like the fact that you lose everything when you die (I mean, why don't they just call it permadeath?)

---

Ok, others have pointed out about the cloning and that with reasonable precautions you will never loose skill points. I would like to elaborate of the 'stuff being destroyed issue'

I am sure you had a bit of a look at the market. What i am not sure yo realized is that almost all the items on the market are put there by players. There are very few items that npcs supply. There is of course items that are obtained from npcs (loot drops from npc, mining for minerals, exploration site yield a lot of gear) but for the bulk of the items they are manufactured by players as well.

So the market is player driven, as is supply. Blowing stuff up keeps the economy vibrant (or simply alive) keeps demand going. Every time you buy something from the market you are interacting with other players, this only works because of the persistent world single server philosophy.

I can see your point of view that the game lacks interest for you, that you feel isolated, but for me i feel deeply conected due to the things i have mentioned above. The issue of excitement may be more of what you have a problem with. Flying solo, and limiting your interaction to npcs really is terminally dull in this game. You need to first see where you interact with other players and then develop interest and excitement associated with those connections. The gameplay (point and click) may still be the killer for you, but the tactical setup part (how to fit your ship), battlefield tactics (what/when/ and how to engage), strategic portion (territorial warfare) may offer interest if you got into it.

Then there is what has been keeping me excited for a while now (although, i am heading back to null sec for a renewed bout of violence) which is the excitement of the market. This weekend in Rens (the Minmatar trade hub) someone screwed with the supply of T2 1NM Micro warp drives. This item is made by players and sells for about 2.5-3 mil isk. Someone purchased all of them that were on the market (about 1000 units, normal turnover is about 100 units a day) and then listed some at 2.5 bil isk. What they were counting on was someone that had billions of isk in their account, not looking carefully at the market when they by one for their frigate and actually buying this item for such an outragous price (NO REFUNDS). So it was a high risk con, all they have to do to make their money back is have 2 players make this mistake.

Pretty exciting stuff, that is a lot of in game credit at risk.

What i did was take my 20 units of T2 1NM Micro warp drives and list them at 5 mil. this is twice the value i can sell them for normally and still make a profit. It screws up the plan of the guy above and he has a choice, continue to strip the market of the lower priced modules (i profit and then i list another 20 at 10 mil each exploiting him) or let them sell and he has missed his window to recover costs.

The market is quite an exciting place.

just want to add one thing @ that map. that is the political map look at this image forchanges made by players day by day

The bottom line is that EVE isn't for everyone. It's also a game that most people don't "get" after just 1 run through the trial. Most folks I know that have stuck with eve played through the free trial period 2 or 3 times before they really 'got' EVE. Many of them hated it the first time through but tried it again and got more curious then tried it the 3rd time and everything started to 'click' for them.

Most who have stuck with EVE really and truly love it. Some play EVE because it's the only modern skill-based (rather than class/level based) MMO remaining on the market right now.

Personally I love that in EVE the sky, literally, is the limit on what I can do or achieve in the game. It's fun determining what goals I want to reach and then actually doing it.

Oh... as to it not being twitch? Nope... it's not... then again you aren't some dude with a sword smacking at another dude with a sword. Hell, you aren't even a fighter pilot dogfighting another fighter. The smallest combat ship in EVE is a frigate. Go look up frigates on Google and see how big they are now... then multiply that by about 100 and you get an idea of the size of the ships you're talking about.

These are huge ships flying in space. The drones that most of them carry are 'fighters'. Even some of the smallest frigates often carry a couple drones on board. So expecting EVE to be 'twitch' is a bit silly.

That said once you start really getting into the game you don't mind the lack of twitch combat so much. I myself love twitch style games too. But EVE just wouldn't work that way.

At any rate... if you don't like it, that's cool. You asked why we do. We answered. Just because you don't/can't/won't understand our reasons doesn't make them any less valid.

As stated by me, and many others:
EVE is not a game for everyone. Some like it, some love it, some don't care, some don't like and some downright hate it. Doesn't really matter to me. I enjoy it. And, right now, in my opinion it's the best MMORPG on the market.

Originally posted by Taram

The bottom line is that EVE isn't for everyone. It's also a game that most people don't "get" after just 1 run through the trial. Most folks I know that have stuck with eve played through the free trial period 2 or 3 times before they really 'got' EVE. Many of them hated it the first time through but tried it again and got more curious then tried it the 3rd time and everything started to 'click' for them.

I think this should emphasized much stronger.  I'm one of those players who played my first free trail a few months ago and was thoroughly unimpressed.  Last week I signed up again convinced that I was missing the big picture.  This time it is beginning to 'click' and I'm hooked.

Originally posted by Mackerni

I hear so many people rave about how great EVE Online, but I tried the trial and wasn't that impressed.

Well, I'll rephrase that. For everything that did impress me, there was something that equally depressed me. The sheer massive-ness of the game is something to be reckened with, but the more I played of the trial the less impressed I was in the space I was in. So at first, I was super-impressed about this game, but then I started doing auto-pilot and between going into planets and realising that this game is really, really empty. The more I played the more I felt it was void of content - the irregularities of going into stars and planets to mine some astroids (that are smaller than said planets and stars).

You have an avatar, but you never use it. You have a name, but you live inside of a ship. And either it is impossible to just regularly move, or you have to literally point and click. I hate having to point and click everytime I want to go somewhere; it is annoying and shouldn't be needed. I read about corporations, but I honestly never met anyone in game because it was so vast. I didn't like the fact that you lose everything when you die (I mean, why don't they just call it permadeath?), and the fact that you couldn't build your skills made it feel like you didn't even have any, and that what you were doing online was less important than the simple seniority complex. 

Honestly, when I left the EVE trial I left as if I had only learned a very small portion of the game, but I of the very small portion I did play I didn't feel like it was worth looking at the entire picture.

I would just like someone to prove me wrong about my accusations ... show me how this game is so great. 

Translation:

Wheres the NPC that says "For the Horde"?

Hi man, trust me I know how you are feeling about the game, I'vebeen laying eve for around 6 months now and still have a crap load to learn, did I want to quit when I first started? hell yeah, this game in truth intimidaited me. but the thought of going back to any other MMO that are all basically the same scared me even more, So I stuck at EvE because I knew deep down that this game was deeper than any otherout there.

The learning curve for this game really does seperate the strong from the weak (not saying you are weak, it's just a term) but there is a reason why this learning cure is so harsh. The people who get past this are usually the kind of people who have patiants and can keep cailm, very rare I hear the word "n00b" and all that crap in the EvE channels which I found very refreshing.

Yes, EvE is big, but what you need to remember is that there is only one server, EvEs server actually has the most people in anyone place at any one time, it may feel empty but trust me, as you progress further into the game you will realise that the game is packed out with sites like complexes, playerowned stations and such, there is a ton of things you can do in EvE which YOU decide to do, you are not molded into anything, in the eve FAQ it says something along the lines of  "you can liturally carve out your proffesion" which is very true.

When I started plying this game I was in a random corp and they had a guy who had been in the corp for over a month, he stole all the corps good, ships, moduals and such, this is a part of the game, it was later found out that he did this as a profession, going to corps gaining their trust then ripping them off, in other MMOs this may be an offence ect, not in eve, these type of actions are encouraged.

About avatar, I understand what you mean here, but trust me, spending a month training skills so you can jump into a nice, new shiny, bigger, stronger or more advanced ship will make you have the feeling you are looking for 10 fold than seeing your character you can reate in any other MMO, just for the fact people have spent so long training for it, avatar in EvE are the ships. also there is chatter about some kind of ship design feature being added in the future, although I dont know if this is just chit chat.

About corps, you said you never met anyone? seriously dude, you did not try hard enough, there are a heap of people to talk to in EvE, if you click the channel listings icon you can join a recruitment channel, you could find a corp in a matter of mins to join. use the features of the game help you.

When you die you leave a "wreck" if you go to a station in your pod and get anoher ship you can go back to your wrech and collect anything that is left behinde, yes you will lose some mods but you will save some also, salvage you wreck and there you go, the loss of the ship should be minimal for starter players like yourselfif you have insurence which should cover most of the costs, also you have to make sure you have a clone that covers your skill points if you get pod killed, you can minimase your loss greatly in EvE if you keep track of things.

I think your EvE trail went bad because you expected something or wanted somethin to be different and I get the feeling you ARE looking for a challenge and my advise would be this.

Try another EvE trail, PLAN your first month or so, so you do not get overwhelmed with all the skills (to train all the skills in eve to 5 would take you like15 years or something) you have to have a goal, like what ship you want to fly, mission runner or pvper, trader ect, JOIN A CORP! corps in EvE are no just something pointless, these are well oiled systems, corps are a massive part of the game, like I said before, you cannot do everything in eve so everyone has their own jobs and services to provide for the corp, trust me, JOIN A CORP, most corps are eager to help new players and intergraite them into their corp, you will get tons of help in these corps.

Use EVEmon http://evemon.battleclinic.com this is a nice program to planwhat skills you want to train, research skills and decide what you would like to do, this shows the time it will take ect.

Last of all, give it time, if you cannot give eve time it wont give you anything back, EVE is like a fine wine IMO, it seriously gets better with age.

Hope I have conviced you to give eve another go, This could be the biggest Post I have ever made lol, the only reason I have done this is because I know exactly where you are coming from, I was there 6 months ago.

Take care

Sorry for crappy typing and spelling im in a rush.

This game is what Vanguard was trying to be all along. The difference being, EvE actually works though Eve lack the "set piece" display of structures and grand cities of Vanguard. But this world is more about the players and what they can do to directly impact their world, not static cities with hundreds of NPCs. I have never seen an MMO like this before, where anything is possible and how the players can actually stake their claims in it.

I'm on my first week now, I after being able to comprehend, in a tiny way what Eve is all about...it  totally blew my mind. I mean this $hit is unreal. I'm so in awe of it all that I've decided to sub for 3 months, in this economy that is not an action that I take lightly.

I seriously love this game.

I've played so many MMOs and none of them come close to Eve.

Once playing Eve i found it almost impossible to go back to other mmos.

These games just couldn't compete with the feature list of Eve the amount of customization and character development. The Lore and Racial Conflict in Eve surpass anything in any other game that wasnt created more then ten years ago (UO/EQ).

After almost two years playing Eve i still consider myself a newish player, I still read game guides and get into a new playstyle. Its always something different Like running  a Mining Op with my corporation to a 500 v 500 Epic battle for my alliances PoS to me Exploring the far reaches of space with a cloaked vessel and scanning out Complexes.

This game has hooked me, I enjoy spending time with my corpmates helping them make their mark in New Eden. The game is unlike anything I've ever played, It's like an alternate reality. things in Eve matter, We dont just run dungeons collecting gear in a treadmill or que up for controlled pvp for vendor gear, Here we live out our lives as Pirates,explorers,soldiers,Traders, Miner, business tychoons, scammers and much much more.

To the OP: playing Eve for 2-3 weeks staying in high sec only running missions and mining and never talking to any corp isnt really playing eve. this game is so much more, I was just like you I had to run eves trial alomst four times before it got a hold of me. Things like being a spaceship and the slow combat and warp travel get better over time trust me.